Allergist says no

[Guest guest]

I think the allergist won't prescribe an antifungal because he is

looking at mold allergy, whereas you may also have mold biotoxin illness

(that's what the cholestyramine is for, is to pull those toxins out).

I can tell you that my son's doctor, Gray, will not prescribe

antifungals for him until he sees the results of an 8-week stool culture

and nasal swab, and whether he prescribes them and which drug will

depend on the stool culture results.

If you do take antifungals, many of them require periodic liver function

testing because the antifungals can affect your liver. BTW, he has

tried both oral nystatin and fluconazole in the past, they did not help him.

The doctor did give him a 2% ketaconazole nasal spray without waiting

for the stool culture.

This is not medical advice, just sharing what my son's doc is doing for

him. He is both mold allergic and toxic.

Also, I am so glad to hear that you are responding quickly to the CSM,

such great news!

sue

>I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im

>allergic to mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-

>fungal and his nurse said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he

>doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

>

>Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach

>my GP but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

>

>Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Anti-fungals are for internal exposures from " infections " . Almost always from

Candida yeast. They are not used for reactions to external exposures from mold.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Carl, I have to disagree. I have had a significant improvement in my symptoms

since I started taking Lamisil. I did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to

several types of toxic mold.

________________________________

From: Carl Grimes <grimes@...>

Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 9:57:51 PM

Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

Anti-fungals are for internal exposures from " infections " . Almost always from

Candida yeast. They are not used for reactions to external exposures from mold.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

, just wondering, did you have alot of back pain with your exposure,or

inflammation ? was your spinal fluid checked for infection? (not that it would

have been detected or maybe even reported)

>

> Carl, I have to disagree. I have had a significant improvement in my symptoms

since I started taking Lamisil. I did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to

several types of toxic mold.

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Carl Grimes <grimes@...>

>

> Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 9:57:51 PM

> Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

>

>

> Anti-fungals are for internal exposures from " infections " . Almost always from

Candida yeast. They are not used for reactions to external exposures from mold.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> [] Allergist says no

>

> I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

>

> Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I didn't say anything about feeling better, only the intended purpose. The body

is complex as are the internal and external exposures. My purpose was to clarify

that mold exposure is not treated the same as " infection. " It would be a waste

of time and money to wrongly diagnose and treat. Their is enough misinformation

without creating confusion.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I was on antifungals for a little over two years. Dr. Marinkovich put me on

them. I could tell a dramatic difference with them. I tried to go off a

couple of times, but would go right back down again within 10 days. (brain

fog, numbness, blurred vision, cough, bloating, etc)

I know that at the University of Manchester in England, they are using

antifungals to treat " asthma " and are reporting great success.

_http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/179/1/11_

(http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/179/1/11)

Dr. M told me it would be two to five years before I was completely

better. He was absolutely right. At about 3 years I felt pretty normal again

with some odd occasional symptoms. Today, I have very minimal reactions

less frequently all the time.

I think it is like everything else with this issue. Nothing seems to be

one size fits all!

In a message dated 1/13/2010 4:43:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

grimes@... writes:

,

I hope my previous response wasn't too abrupt or rude. I was

waiting for my flight and they started boarding as I was writing.

So, to be a little more clear:

The original context, which I didn't make clear, was why didn't a

doctor prescribe an anti-fungal for a mold exposure, and which

one would be best.

First, that is a medical questions about prescriptions and none of

us are qualified to prescribe.

Second, the reason would be that anti-fungals, especially the

ones ingested rather than applied on the skin, are for internal

mold growth which is almost always not mold growth but yeast

(Candida). Candida is inside everybody and is part of the natural

floral of the digestive system. It, bacteria, enzymes and other

components are normally in some sort of symbiotic balance. If

the bacteria overgrow and dominate then we have a bacterial

infection of the gut. If the Candida overgrows and dominates then

we have a yeast (fungal) infection of the gut. (Thrush and genital

infections are also Candida).

Internal anti-fungal prescriptions are for the Candida and other

internal infections (overgrowth)internal infections (overgrowth)

treatment of our reactions to mold outside of our body which is

inhaled, ingested, or contacted on skin (dermal). Because it is a

prescription a doctor must first follow the regulations for

prescriptions.

Other kinds of treatments, including some drugs, are appropriate

for exposure to molds originating outside our body.

The fact that you felt better with Lamisil could be explained any

number of ways. You had a low grade infection which you weren't

aware of. It was an organism not detected in a test. There was

secondary effects (side effects) which were positive rather than

negative. It affected another part of the body which allowed the

body to better perform overall, resulting in feeling better.

For example, vitamin C is a huge benefit to me immediately after

some mold exposures. But vitamin C has nothing to do with

treating, controlling, killing, or otherwise affecting mold. Even

Cholestyramine does not directly impact the mold, yeast, or

fungus. It removes byproducts of the immune system generated

when the body responds to the mold exposure.

So, Tug asked why the doctor didn't prescribe an anti-fungal for

his mold exposure. My response is why would he? Anti-fungals

are for a very different purpose. But that doesn't mean some of

us, especially yourself, don't benefit for any number of other

reasons, including a possible undetected mold " infection. "

Finally, I put " infection " in quotes because there are all different

kinds of " infections.kinds of " infections.<WBR> " Some are

overgrowth like thrush in the mouth, and others are fungal ball

infections, some of which can kill. Quickly. Most of what we

experience are not the deadly types of infections or overgrowth.

We experience mostly the ones which make us suffer so

miserably it feels like we're dying.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im

allergic to mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-

fungal and his nurse said no. She said he'd like to see me but if

he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to

approach my GP but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work

best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

dang, lelayed thought process. I was reading something the other day but not

sure if it was on toxins or pathogens but it said they migrate south like to

feet and hands. cold hands,cold feet. humm, I wonder if theres a reason for

that.

>

> ,

>

> I didn't say anything about feeling better, only the intended purpose. The

body is complex as are the internal and external exposures. My purpose was to

clarify that mold exposure is not treated the same as " infection. " It would be a

waste of time and money to wrongly diagnose and treat. Their is enough

misinformation without creating confusion.

>

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

> [] Allergist says no

>

> I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

>

> Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I hope my previous response wasn't too abrupt or rude. I was

waiting for my flight and they started boarding as I was writing.

So, to be a little more clear:

The original context, which I didn't make clear, was why didn't a

doctor prescribe an anti-fungal for a mold exposure, and which

one would be best.

First, that is a medical questions about prescriptions and none of

us are qualified to prescribe.

Second, the reason would be that anti-fungals, especially the

ones ingested rather than applied on the skin, are for internal

mold growth which is almost always not mold growth but yeast

(Candida). Candida is inside everybody and is part of the natural

floral of the digestive system. It, bacteria, enzymes and other

components are normally in some sort of symbiotic balance. If

the bacteria overgrow and dominate then we have a bacterial

infection of the gut. If the Candida overgrows and dominates then

we have a yeast (fungal) infection of the gut. (Thrush and genital

infections are also Candida).

Internal anti-fungal prescriptions are for the Candida and other

internal infections (overgrowth). They are not intended for

treatment of our reactions to mold outside of our body which is

inhaled, ingested, or contacted on skin (dermal). Because it is a

prescription a doctor must first follow the regulations for

prescriptions.

Other kinds of treatments, including some drugs, are appropriate

for exposure to molds originating outside our body.

The fact that you felt better with Lamisil could be explained any

number of ways. You had a low grade infection which you weren't

aware of. It was an organism not detected in a test. There was

secondary effects (side effects) which were positive rather than

negative. It affected another part of the body which allowed the

body to better perform overall, resulting in feeling better.

For example, vitamin C is a huge benefit to me immediately after

some mold exposures. But vitamin C has nothing to do with

treating, controlling, killing, or otherwise affecting mold. Even

Cholestyramine does not directly impact the mold, yeast, or

fungus. It removes byproducts of the immune system generated

when the body responds to the mold exposure.

So, Tug asked why the doctor didn't prescribe an anti-fungal for

his mold exposure. My response is why would he? Anti-fungals

are for a very different purpose. But that doesn't mean some of

us, especially yourself, don't benefit for any number of other

reasons, including a possible undetected mold " infection. "

Finally, I put " infection " in quotes because there are all different

kinds of " infections. " Some are overgrowth like with Candida,

overgrowth like thrush in the mouth, and others are fungal ball

infections, some of which can kill. Quickly. Most of what we

experience are not the deadly types of infections or overgrowth.

We experience mostly the ones which make us suffer so

miserably it feels like we're dying.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im

allergic to mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-

fungal and his nurse said no. She said he'd like to see me but if

he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to

approach my GP but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work

best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Carl,

My understanding, and I am not a doctor or an expert by any means, is

that molds from outside can be breathed in and then start to colonize

the body internally, and that antifungals are therefore not just for

candida, but some doctors will prescribe antifungals as a treatment

trial, and see if you get better on them, and others first want to lab

test to see if they detect something that could be treated with

antifungals... sue v.

>The original context, which I didn't make clear, was why didn't a

>doctor prescribe an anti-fungal for a mold exposure, and which

>one would be best.

>

>First, that is a medical questions about prescriptions and none of

>us are qualified to prescribe.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your explanation, but I still disagree. I had many tests, and I

did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to several toxic molds (fungi), so I

took an " antifungal " and it worked. Antifungals are being used to treat a

variety of diseases caused by fungi as discussed in this study.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?+wo=2008021970 & +DISPLAY=DESC & IA=US2007075609\

& DISPLAY=DESC

________________________________

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Sent: Wed, January 13, 2010 3:43:28 PM

Subject: RE: Re: [] Allergist says no

,

I hope my previous response wasn't too abrupt or rude. I was

waiting for my flight and they started boarding as I was writing.

So, to be a little more clear:

The original context, which I didn't make clear, was why didn't a

doctor prescribe an anti-fungal for a mold exposure, and which

one would be best.

First, that is a medical questions about prescriptions and none of

us are qualified to prescribe.

Second, the reason would be that anti-fungals, especially the

ones ingested rather than applied on the skin, are for internal

mold growth which is almost always not mold growth but yeast

(Candida). Candida is inside everybody and is part of the natural

floral of the digestive system. It, bacteria, enzymes and other

components are normally in some sort of symbiotic balance. If

the bacteria overgrow and dominate then we have a bacterial

infection of the gut. If the Candida overgrows and dominates then

we have a yeast (fungal) infection of the gut. (Thrush and genital

infections are also Candida).

Internal anti-fungal prescriptions are for the Candida and other

internal infections (overgrowth) . They are not intended for

treatment of our reactions to mold outside of our body which is

inhaled, ingested, or contacted on skin (dermal). Because it is a

prescription a doctor must first follow the regulations for

prescriptions.

Other kinds of treatments, including some drugs, are appropriate

for exposure to molds originating outside our body.

The fact that you felt better with Lamisil could be explained any

number of ways. You had a low grade infection which you weren't

aware of. It was an organism not detected in a test. There was

secondary effects (side effects) which were positive rather than

negative. It affected another part of the body which allowed the

body to better perform overall, resulting in feeling better.

For example, vitamin C is a huge benefit to me immediately after

some mold exposures. But vitamin C has nothing to do with

treating, controlling, killing, or otherwise affecting mold. Even

Cholestyramine does not directly impact the mold, yeast, or

fungus. It removes byproducts of the immune system generated

when the body responds to the mold exposure.

So, Tug asked why the doctor didn't prescribe an anti-fungal for

his mold exposure. My response is why would he? Anti-fungals

are for a very different purpose. But that doesn't mean some of

us, especially yourself, don't benefit for any number of other

reasons, including a possible undetected mold " infection. "

Finally, I put " infection " in quotes because there are all different

kinds of " infections. " Some are overgrowth like with Candida,

overgrowth like thrush in the mouth, and others are fungal ball

infections, some of which can kill. Quickly. Most of what we

experience are not the deadly types of infections or overgrowth.

We experience mostly the ones which make us suffer so

miserably it feels like we're dying.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im

allergic to mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-

fungal and his nurse said no. She said he'd like to see me but if

he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to

approach my GP but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work

best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

No, I didn't have any back pain or inflammation in my back or spinal cord.

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Wed, January 13, 2010 11:22:09 AM

Subject: [] Re: Allergist says no

, just wondering, did you have alot of back pain with your exposure,or

inflammation ? was your spinal fluid checked for infection? (not that it would

have been detected or maybe even reported)

>

> Carl, I have to disagree. I have had a significant improvement in my symptoms

since I started taking Lamisil. I did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to

several types of toxic mold.

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: Carl Grimes <grimes@...>

>

> Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 9:57:51 PM

> Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

>

>

> Anti-fungals are for internal exposures from " infections " . Almost always from

Candida yeast. They are not used for reactions to external exposures from mold.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> [] Allergist says no

>

> I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im allergic to

mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-fungal and his nurse

said no. She said he'd like to see me but if he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

>

> Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to approach my GP

but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work best. Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

....but maybe you did ! Glad it helped you but you could have had an

infection and not known it. Chronic fungal infections can have subtle symptoms,

not a high fever like viral infections,etc.

>

> Carl, I have to disagree. I have had a significant improvement in my symptoms

since I started taking Lamisil. I did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to

several types of toxic mold.

[Guest guest]

...it must mean though that you had some infection internally. Some infection

are low grade but chronic and can have profound impact on your health and they

would constantly be depositing mycotoxins inside of your body, so I think it

probably is an infection, and low grade infections may not be detected or a

concern to modern medical, but I think we are all agree that that can impact the

immune system, which in turn, would affect your response to allergens.

>

> I was on antifungals for a little over two years. Dr. Marinkovich put me on

> them. I could tell a dramatic difference with them. I tried to go off a

> couple of times, but would go right back down again within 10 days. (brain

> fog, numbness, blurred vision, cough, bloating, etc)

>

> I know that at the University of Manchester in England, they are using

> antifungals to treat " asthma " and are reporting great success.

>

> _http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/179/1/11_

> (http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/179/1/11)

>

> Dr. M told me it would be two to five years before I was completely

> better. He was absolutely right. At about 3 years I felt pretty normal

again

> with some odd occasional symptoms. Today, I have very minimal reactions

> less frequently all the time.

>

> I think it is like everything else with this issue. Nothing seems to be

> one size fits all!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you are right but there are low grade infections that the medical

establishment would not consider high enough to treat but would put a drag on

your immune system, perhaps multiple low grade infections. I think it is

reasonable conclusion that if antifungals helped, it was by killing fungus in

your body, bringing the total load of fungus you had in you down...but who

cares, point is it made you better...!!

>

> I appreciate your explanation, but I still disagree. I had many tests, and I

did NOT have an infection. I was exposed to several toxic molds (fungi), so I

took an " antifungal " and it worked. Antifungals are being used to treat a

variety of diseases caused by fungi as discussed in this study.

>

>

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?+wo=2008021970 & +DISPLAY=DESC & IA=US2007075609\

& DISPLAY=DESC

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last question:

Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[] Allergist says no

I called the allergist that took skin tests and verified that Im

allergic to mold. I asked him if he could possibly prescribe a anti-

fungal and his nurse said no. She said he'd like to see me but if

he doesn't prescribe anti-fungals.

Beings the Allergist wont prescribe an anti-fungal I'd like to

approach my GP but Im not sure what anti-fungal would work

best. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I know of nystatin, fluconazole, itraconazole, voraconazole....there are

probably others....most require monitoring of liver function...

>I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last

>question: Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

>

>Carl Grimes

>Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon are you doing the nizoral recipe from Dr M still?

From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 6:02 PM

I was on antifungals for a little over two years. Dr. Marinkovich put me

on

them. I could tell a dramatic difference with them. I tried to go off a

couple of times, but would go right back down again within 10 days. (brain

fog, numbness, blurred vision, cough, bloating, etc)

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

No crow eating required. Don't ask me to explain why, but some people who

have the same basic symptoms as others after an atypical exposure to mold

and company, report that they do not respond well to anti-fungals.

Personally, I am pretty sure that my current quality of life today would

not be anywhere near the same without them.

Sharon K.

In a message dated 1/14/2010 6:46:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

svican@... writes:

I know of nystatin, fluconazole, itraconazole, voraconazole.I know of ny

probably others....most require monitoring of liver function...

>I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last

>question: Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

>

>Carl Grimes

>Healthy Habitats LLC

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Not currently using the Nizoral, but am anticipating wanting some in the

near future. I am hopefully soon to start back to work as a real estate

agent, which means I am going to be in and out of a lot of houses.

When I was using the Nizoral before, I found it worked well as a

preventative measure to coat my sinuses with the antifungal before I went in

places

that were potentially not pristine.

Think I will be doing that again, particularly on Broker Caravan days where

one is in and out of many houses in the same day.

In a message dated 1/14/2010 6:46:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kmtown2003@... writes:

Sharon are you doing the nizoral recipe from Dr M still?

[Guest guest]

The regular doctors ran a ton of useless tests on me when I was sick. But

one thing that did come out was that I had a slightly elevated white blood

cell count, which is a sign of infection.

I am not a doctor and hereby profess to professionally know nothing. But

this is how my pea-brain understands it:

As far as what anti-fungals, itraconozol is still a mainstay for fungal

colonization.

Voriconazole (V-fend) is used for heavy duty purposes, like for AIDS

patients and such. _http://www.drugs.com/vfend.html_

(http://www.drugs.com/vfend.html)

Azoles are anti-fungals. If you look at the official name of some of the

drugs that are prescribed for depression, they are azoles.

This is a good paper on azoles. It is from 1999, prior to when we

suddenly became ignorant that mold causes illness in the US.

_http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/12/1/40_

(http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/12/1/40)

[Guest guest]

Yes, a. I think you are exactly right. I think this whole boogie

man that anti-fungals cause severe liver problems on a regular basis, is

just to scare the doctors away from prescribing them...as in if one gets

better when using anti-fungals it helps to prove exposure to fungals caused

illness. Dr. Marinkovich thought so, too.

My daughter has CF. She is on antifungals forever and has been for about

7 years now. Her liver is fine. My liver was never impacted either by

them.

I think it is more the exception than the norm that people have liver

problems from anti-fungals.

In a message dated 1/14/2010 8:42:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kmtown2003@... writes:

In Dr marinkovichs paper, all those years of treating patients with

anti-fungals. he didn't see liver problems. I also think when people have

trouble with anti-fungals, they weren't educated on the die-off side effects.

I share with everyone I help that part of the process is you will feel

worse before you get better. Die off is a bitch but it gets better

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

,

You are 100% on the mark with this post. Dr. S. has always approached the

matter from more of a poisoning standpoint caused by toxins. Dr. M.

approached it from an immunological aspect caused by an antigen.

I went to DC with both of these men in 2006 when we held a Senate Staff

Briefing sponsored by Senator Kennedy and Senator Jeffords. Dr.

Sherris, ENT, was also on our panel, who discussed chronic fungal sinusitus.

Chin

Yang was the last panel member who discussed the microbiology of what one

finds in water damaged buildings.

We all met at the B & B where I was staying. It was pretty obvious that

each had their own opinions when they walked in the door and were somewhat

leary of the others'. The conversations were way over my unscientific head.

But, it obvious to me by the time they walked out the door to go to the

Briefing, each man recognized a cross over from what they were saying and the

others were saying.

It is such a loss that Dr. Marinkovich died when he did. He was beginning

to add the toxic symptoms into his understanding of immunology.

Today, Dr. Shoemaker has nailed it. The toxins and other contaminants

cause chronic inflammation that impact the immune system.

I feel certain that the two men together could have caused the sciences of

immunological from and antigen and poisoning from a toxin to meld together

to give a very comprehensive view of the problem, and a more comprehensive

manner of how to treat these illnesses under individual circumstance.

In a message dated 1/14/2010 9:06:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kdeanstudios@... writes:

Carl, my understanding of CSM is that it binds with the toxin produced by

the biological agent, thus cutting the chronic nuero-toxin syndrome, think

you need to re-read Mold Warriors, also Dr Marchinoffs paper on

hypersensitivity. We are dealing here with the 2 main theories of curing our

condition.

Also the 2 main theories of why hypersensitivity occurs.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2010 9:30:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kmtown2003@... writes:

And where are we getting it?? Inquireing minds want to know. the Pharmacy

on the recipe said its not making it

Good question. Have to find another compounding lab, I guess. Seems like

that would be a job for a mold treating physician who always respected Dr.

M's work. (hint, hint)

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I don't know the answer to that. Dr. Shoemaker has tried to explain it to

me before, but I don't understand what he is telling me. Him talk way

over my head.

There are a lot of respected men of science in this issue who legitimately

believe anti-fungals are not the answer to treat these illnesses. Dr.

, who is respected world over for his research, says its not

plausible that anti-fungals help with these illnesses.

I tell him it is. But I am not qualified to explain my position (other tha

n ask the experienced, not the learned). He humors me on the point. I

humor him. We agree to disagree.

The best place in the world that I know of where they are doing research on

the use of anti-fungals to treat what they call " severe asthma " , is Dr.

Denning at the University of Manchester.

And again, I am aware of people who tried anti-fungals to no avail, but did

respond to Dr. Shoemaker's treatment. I have never treated with Dr. S.

Maybe I would have done well there, too.

And then there are those like WM, who got the most benefit from the

protocol followed by Dr. Lieberman.

I don't know why some things work for some but not for others. It just is,

I guess.

Sharon

In a message dated 1/14/2010 10:36:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

Sharon I understand this.

Today, Dr. Shoemaker has nailed it. The toxins and other contaminants

> cause chronic inflammation that impact the immune system.

allergies, exspecially to molds also impact the immune system.

irritants and organ damage also affect the immune system.

Why doesn't Dr. shoemaker prescribe anti-fungals also?

Sharon Noonan Kramer