Noah Update

November 14, 2003

Hi All, well as Noah is approaching 3 insurance is wanting the school to take

over his therapy. They offer a whopping 15 min each of ot and pt and I may be

able to get 30-60 min of speech. We were trying for a home program of a.b.a

that insurance would pay for which was to start this month but due to loose ends

we decided to wait until Jan since we have to pay upfront and seek reimbursement

later. So now we need a letter from the school as the public official stating

Noah is not getting a.b.a at school. So Of course we have to enroll him to get

services. The school is working on an I.E.P and informed me yesterday of his

placement into the serverly disabled class which has 8 kids a teacher and 1 LPN.

They state that he lacks the components for the autism program meaning he is

multihandicapped due to duel dx and minimal hearing loss in 1 ear and the fact

he has mild nystagmus which at this time he interacts fine in the environment.

He was assessed by the vision and mobility teacher for the dist 6 month ago and

she said he does not qualify for services with them because his vision does not

effect his mobility.They want the i.e.p on the 21 of Nov . Has anyone else had

problems in securing treatment for the autism? I will for NOT put Noah in this

class as it is the most restrictive class available. At this point Ik will

attend the scheduled meeting but let my objections be known as to the placement.

and not sign the I.E.P I will request in writing why they will not put him in

the autism class request another meeting in April for placement next year with a

full team. They made this placement without my presence in a meeting. I will

get doc notes and request for the therapy and by that time we will be on the

home program so Ik will have that as ammunition. Does anyone have some

suggestions for me??? Thanks ladies

November 15, 2003

In a message dated 11/14/2003 7:25:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

rwgreene@... writes:

> They made this placement without my presence in a meeting.

Hi ,

Were you invited to this meeting? If you were and the school made tried to

rescheduled the meeting so that you could attend then the team could decide his

placement without your being present. The school would have had to make

reasonable accomodations for your presence, otherwise, it is against the law.

Noah's

placement has to fiit his needs not Noah fit into a school program. It's a

battle getting the right accomodations for any child but typically more

difficult with an autism program. If you do your homework and have all your

evaluations in place prior to the meeting your outcome will be successful. Good

luck

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 10 DS/OCD

November 15, 2003

Hi ,

It is against the law to for a PPT team to predetermine placement. An I.Q.

test does not soley determine what an individual is capable of. Boy, did they

flam you. I can't remember how old Noah is. I would be writing my state

complaint very quickly or asking for a mediation hearing. I hate the fact that

we have

to fight for everything that our children are entitled too by law but that's

the way it seems to be. Many districts hope that if they give parents a hard

time they will give up saving the district money. Do what you have too and

don't be discouraged.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 10 DS/OCD

November 15, 2003

Charlene, yes I was intvited to this meeting it is to take place on Nov 21.

They just took the liberty to pre-determine placement on their own. I called

and brought to their attention information that they did not have as far as

functional and developmental areas of Noah's assessments and they called back

and said the decision stands! So I have put my concerns in writing to document

the phone call and will send them off on Monday. The meeting was supposed to

also address related services and they will only offer him speech. The school

psychologist states he lacks the components for A.B.A because he has multiple

disabilities. This was news to me because the vision assessment I had done in

may clearly states his vision does not interfere with what he is doing on a

daily basis. Also where they said he is hearing impaired well my assessment

states he has a slight high frequency loss in the left ear and in the right ear

hearing is with in normal limits and inconclusion the results are consistent

with essentially normal hearing. Then she said his i.q is too low to do a.b.a

so I said as you know Noah has scattered skills which are significant and the

baley scales of infant dev performed on Noah was incomplete that day and also it

was noted in those notes they obtained was the fact that Noah was sleepy during

the session. Therefore I do not feel this is a valid estimate of Noah's

intelligence. I also wrote that I felt that the interpretation of some of

Noah's behaviors indicate a lack of understanding of autism. so I will decline

the whole school smorgishboard what they are offering . She said next year they

will put him in the same class. So I am preparing now for next falls placement.

In January I am going to request a functional, play -based and ecological

assessment be done in Noah's customary environment, his HOME!!!!!!!!!!! and then

say we will meet in 20 days to discuss the results for his next I.EP for fall

services. By then I will have the a.b.a.going in the home more private

assessments and more time to prepare for this process. These people are really

sick that's about all I have to say about them. Well thanks for resounding to

me Charlene I will keep you posted on how it turns out. --- Original

Message -----

From: charlyne1121@...

To:

Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:58 AM

Subject: Re: Noah Update

In a message dated 11/14/2003 7:25:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

rwgreene@... writes:

> They made this placement without my presence in a meeting.

Hi ,

Were you invited to this meeting? If you were and the school made tried to

rescheduled the meeting so that you could attend then the team could decide

his

placement without your being present. The school would have had to make

reasonable accomodations for your presence, otherwise, it is against the law.

Noah's

placement has to fiit his needs not Noah fit into a school program. It's a

battle getting the right accomodations for any child but typically more

difficult with an autism program. If you do your homework and have all your

evaluations in place prior to the meeting your outcome will be successful.

Good luck

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 10 DS/OCD

November 16, 2003

Hi ,

Your on the right track. You have years of advocating to do for Noah and you

are certainly beginning well informed. Regardless if you place Noah in a home

program the school district is responsible for his education and related

services. You are fortunate that the insurance will continue to pay after Noah's

third birthday. I bet you get the eyerolls,LOL.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 10 DS/OCD

November 16, 2003

In a message dated 11/16/03 3:09:12 AM Central Standard Time,

writes:

> Then she said his i.q is too low to do a.b.a so I said as you know Noah has

> scattered skills which are significant and the baley scales of infant dev

> performed on Noah was incomplete that day and also it was noted in those notes

> they obtained was the fact that Noah was sleepy during the session.

> Therefore I do not feel this is a valid estimate of Noah's intelligence. I

also

> wrote that I felt that the interpretation of some of Noah's behaviors indicate

a

> lack of understanding of autism.

,

I have been following this thread and haven't had time to respond. But, this

IQ garbage just makes my blood boil. For a child who doesn't have appropriate

motor planning ability (i.e. effective, reliable pointing) and lack of an

organized communication system (sign or PECS) I don't feel there is a valid test

yet developed to measure their intelligence. An IQ test is only a test of how

someone can communicate their intelligence.

Good luck in your fight

Karyn

November 16, 2003

Charlyne, Noah will turn 3 on Nov 22. The autism program has from ages 3-6 in

that class and there is 8 kids in there as of today. If Noah was to go in that

class they would have to hire another person. I anticipated this kind of

garbage from the dist. with his birthday being so far into the year and the

budget at so a late date would all play into this. That is why I was just

going to pursue other avenues. For now it is not so vital only because my

insurance is going to assist with getting me started on a home program which in

Noah's case it is the best solution. By getting my ducks in a row for next year,

August in this state, I will try too get the dist. to either supply him with a

home tutor or put him in that program or create a place for him that he is

getting the related services he is entitled to. On the flip side of this I know

their strategy now but they don't know mine. The more supports I have to prove

my case for a mediation hearing the better, as of today I probably would not

have enough info to support his need for A.B.A by April at the next i.e.p I am

going to request then I should have a stronger argument. Also and if they won't

place him in the program I will have studied every case and book I can get my

hands on to properly fill out an I.E.P. I just bought win-win I.E.P for

students with autism by Fouse. That has some good info about DETAILS. and of

course armed with my slaw book they will see they picked the wrong parent

to try to save money on. Don't know how far I will get but it for sure is not

going to be the lowest possible placement they have offered with only speech as

a related service.. Thanks for listening. Re: Noah Update

Hi ,

It is against the law to for a PPT team to predetermine placement. An I.Q.

test does not soley determine what an individual is capable of. Boy, did they

flam you. I can't remember how old Noah is. I would be writing my state

complaint very quickly or asking for a mediation hearing. I hate the fact that

we have

to fight for everything that our children are entitled too by law but that's

the way it seems to be. Many districts hope that if they give parents a hard

time they will give up saving the district money. Do what you have too and

don't be discouraged.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 10 DS/OCD

November 16, 2003

Hi ,

ABA or behavior therapy has little to do with merely correcting

behavior. It entails a comprehensive program for teaching skills

across all domains, from the linguistic, to the cognitive, to the

social, to the mundane tasks of getting dressed, brushing one's

teeth, and so on. Ok, you may know this but it seems that the team

are finding excuses or are they clueless for mentioning an IQ level

and does not need the service.

Many like me, our opinion the sooner the better. ABA is about

shaping behaviors by taking baby steps. It isn't just about

submission or compliance. It is about forming habits and

motivating the appearance of appropriate behaviors. This takes

time. It is the formation of habit through repetition and

reinforcement that truly changes behavior on the long term.

Noah receiving intensive early behaviorial intervention would

benefit from it and I've seen many his age that their behavior have

decreased due to being taught to learn. Like my son have shown

improvement with his communication, play, instruction-following,

self-help, and his tantrums have decreased some. Not a recovery but

a relief to understand he can learn some.

Some of the words I had written from the first paragraph were from

the book I'm reading Behavioral Intervention for Young Children with

Autism by Maurice. Its a manual for parents and

professionals. I would suggest for you to check it out it will give

you great ammo towards this service implemented on the IEP. It is

great that your insurance will pay for ABA. Lets see what you could

get out of the school district in the mean time.

Chapter 15 mentions-What parents Can Expect from Public School

Programs.

Chapter Seventeen: Answers to Commonly Asked Questions:

Q: What is the Optimal Age for Starting Intensive Behavioral Therapy?

A: A considerate amount of evidence shows that the greatest gains

are made with children who start training prior to their fifth

birthday. Many of us suspect that the optimal date for starting most

children is between 24 and 42 months, but we do not have sufficient

research evidence to confirm that. Behavioral intervention have been

shown to be effective for all individuals with autism, regardless of

age. The gains made with the children starting at later ages,

however, appear to decrease in accirdance with ages.

There is also a dearth of data related to starting children too

early. Autism, compared to other disabilities that are evident a

birth or soon after, ususally emerges and is identified rather late.

Therefore, treatment would be unlikely to start prior to about 20

months.

Whivh state are you in?

Get a lot of research together supporting your request.

Have a plan ready on how they can do it, either they haven't done it

or seem like they wouldn't know how to do it but maybe are

receptive. Be very concrete, so you can address every objection

they raise:

1) We don't have anyone trained to set up a program in that

Answer: Provide a list of consultants they could use (preferably at

the top would be the one you use in a home program).

2) We don't have a TA or parapro trained in that.

Answer: Send them someone from your home program to hire if

possible, or at least offer to help train one they hire (not ideal,

but better than not getting it).

3) We don't have anywhere to do it.

Answer: Be very flexible. This is from a mom who had shared this

info from another list had the ABA in a large closet one year. Not

great but at least the school paid for it.

Just in general, keep offering to help, to problem solve, to find

solutions. You should be prepared to help them find materials or

even provide them yourself. It's best to have a cooperative

attitude as long as you can, with some give and take. Many times

they see if you are willing to help or give on a few things what you

want is for the good of the kid, not just to be a pest.

Good luck when you pull the research together on ABA and how it is

the only effective method to teach children with autism of (as far as

empirical evidence). There are hundreds of articles, but good ones

include the 2 Lovaas studies (1987 & the follow-up in 1993 with

McEachin, et al), the report from the National Research Council

on Autism, they convened a committee with national experts and came

up with the conclusion that kids need at least 25 hours per week year

round intensive educational services. Also, the Surgeon General has

also mentioned ABA as an effective treatment for autism. Continue to

follow your gut instincts.

Irma,15,DS/ASD

http://www.mariposaschool.org/programs/TrainingManual.doc

November 18, 2003

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS AMEN TO THAT , KAREN I AGREE 100%, THOSE IQ TESTS SUCK!!

SORRY TO BE SO BLUNT !! VI

November 19, 2003

Hi Irma, thank you for taking the time to write a very informative post. I

thought about it and am having the doc write a prescription for 10 hours a week

of A.B.A integrated with sensory therapy in the school as a related service. My

insurance only will pay for the supervision of the program not the actual line

therapy, we have to find the individuals and pay them ourselves. So 10 hours

would be 10 hours less I have to pay someone in the home. I will see where that

gets me. What do you think? Thanks

Re: Noah update