Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Bill, Even though it's not a criterion, a significant lack of empathy is a common trait. Correct? Jim To: aspires-relationships Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 1:57:27 PMSubject: Re: IEP Jim wrote:> Bill,> > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > do you explain that? Simple. "Lack of empathy" is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria.All of the few AS I know personally have plenty of empathy. All though, and I join with them, find it takes a very long time for that reality to percolate into others' perceptions.I think you'll find most AS on this List will claim at least *some* empathy. Many of us claim (and can display, betimes) quite a lot.- Bill, 76, dx AS; ...empathy enough-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 At 04:16 PM 11/14/2008, Jim wrote: > Even though it's not a criterion, a significant lack of empathy is > a common trait. Correct? Absolutely not. Lack of empathy implies little or no feeling or concern for others. AS do desire to be social, do care for about others, do not want to offend. We just don't always get it right tho, much to our own mortification and sadness. A more correct description might be one either Tony Attwood or Bryna Siegel used when talking about the fumbling attempts of AS children to socialize in the school yard - AS is sometimes " socially hard of hearing. " A person who appears lacking in empathy has a whole lot more problems than just AS. - Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Jim, That would depend on what is meant by "empathy". If you mean reading and correctly interpreting facial emotion, absent verbal information, then the answer would be yes- it is quite common. If you mean selfishness, not caring about others, not taking into account the known perspective of the other person, then the answer would be tha it depends on the situation and on the AS. There are delays in development: some AS can do this, but learn how later in life than the average NT. If you mean, not-compassionate, unkind, uncaring, then the answer is no. AS can be quite compassionate, and compassion is often listed as a fairly common strength of AS. My first experience of empathy - in discerning an emotion from body language alone and then owning it as mine- occurred when I was 13. I even remember the date. Of course, this is later than what is typical. Today,I can do it, but I am stil not so good in reading feelings to start with as an NT, particularly when the other person is trying hard to disguise them. I am still learning this. Each AS is different. I have always been good at interpreting tone of voice (or at least decent), while there are some AS who can do faces but not voices, and there are many who have trouble with both. I also do not always know the names of the feelings I discern, and can only define it in a roundabout, wordy fashion. I believe that this is common enough, too. How is it for NTs- do you always empathize the right way, when you are not certain how the other person feels? How do you deal with this? How do you know when the other person wants you to care, but really does not want you to know how he or she feels? Anything you do might help me- or another AS on this list- these kinds of things are tricky to me. Thanks, > Bill,> > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > do you explain that? Simple. "Lack of empathy" is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria.All of the few AS I know personally have plenty of empathy. All though, and I join with them, find it takes a very long time for that reality to percolate into others' perceptions.I think you'll find most AS on this List will claim at least *some* empathy. Many of us claim (and can display, betimes) quite a lot.- Bill, 76, dx AS; ...empathy enough-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Helen, I love this! It really feels right. Subject: Re: EmpathyTo: aspires-relationships Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 5:23 PM .. ....A more correct description might be one either Tony Attwood or Bryna Siegel used when talking about the fumbling attempts of AS children to socialize in the school yard - AS is sometimes "socially hard of hearing. "...- Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Jim wrote: > Bill, > > Even though it's not a criterion, a significant lack of empathy is a > common trait. Correct? No. That is, *some* people say it's common. I don't. I stand behind my first response to you. We *do* have strong enough empathies. Just, many of us don't **display** it very well -- from an NT's point-of-view. > > Jim > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* WD Loughman > *To:* aspires-relationships > *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2008 1:57:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: IEP > > Jim wrote: > > Bill, > > > > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > > do you explain that? > > Simple. " Lack of empathy " is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria. [ snip ] - Bill, 76, dx AS -- WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 , I see a lack of empathy from all types of people in every day life. In today's world, all of us get wrapped up in what we are interested in or what is bothering us. During these times, we can forget about other people. For example, we might have a list too long for the day with not enough time to get it done. One thing on the list might be grocery shopping. Perhaps, because we are tired and focused on our own tiring list, we fail to see that the cashier is also overtaxed. Instead of seeing this, we might get impatient because she is taking too long. A poor example, I know. I just couldn't think of a better one. If I am not too self-absorbed, I can see in the other person's face that something is wrong. My smile, patience and pleasant conversation might be just what it takes to lift this person's spirits. If I am too absorbed in my own problems, then I don't see this. Before I retired, I was a horribly impatient person in line. Now that I am retired (have the time) and have a power wheelchair that frees my body of the stress and physical pain of waiting in line, I am a more observant and patient person. My husband is AS. In the beginning of our relationship, before we knew about AS, I got upset with him over his behaviors that seemed to show that he lacked empathy or compassion. For example, he would walk through the door ahead of an elderly person with a cane or walker and let the door slam in the person's face. Yet, he was very conscious of holding the door for me because of my physical limitations. He would say that he didn't see them. I began to coach him to watch out for the person behind him. Or to run ahead and assist someone with the door. Today, I no longer have to do that. He is observant about people behind and in front of him. I'm still not sure if this was AS or just part of 's own personality. I did this sort of coaching in other aspects of interactions with people. He now even shows empathy to a co-worker problems when I am not even present. He seems more comfortable around people now. I'm not sure how to explain his transformation. Is it something he learned late in life? Or was AS involved? I don't know. Verleen > > > Jim, >  > That would depend on what is meant by " empathy " . If you mean reading and correctly interpreting facial emotion, absent verbal information, then the answer would be yes- it is quite common. If you mean selfishness, not caring about others, not taking into account the known perspective of the other person, then the answer would be tha it depends on the situation and on the AS. There are delays in development: some AS can do this, but learn how later in life than the average NT. >  > If you mean, not-compassionate, unkind, uncaring, then the answer is no. AS can be quite compassionate, and compassion is often listed as a fairly common strength of AS. >  > My first experience of empathy - in discerning an emotion from body language alone and then owning it as mine- occurred when I was 13. I even remember the date. Of course, this is later than what is typical. Today,I can do it, but I am stil not so good in reading feelings to start with as an NT, particularly when the other person is trying hard to disguise them. I am still learning this. Each AS is different. I have always been good at interpreting tone of voice (or at least decent), while there are some AS who can do faces but not voices, and there are many who have trouble with both. I also do not always know the names of the feelings I discern, and can only define it in a roundabout, wordy fashion. I believe that this is common enough, too. >  > How is it for NTs- do you always empathize the right way, when you are not certain how the other person feels? How do you deal with this? How do you know when the other person wants you to care, but really does not want you to know how he or she feels? Anything you do might help me- or another AS on this list- these kinds of things are tricky to me. >  > Thanks, > > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 Bill, <grin>, a picture popped into my head when I read what you wrote. I pictured an AS man walking on the pier and seeing another person fall into the water and begin to drown. The AS man keeps walking on, but feels really bad about the man drowning. Verleen > > > Bill, > > > > > > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > > > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > > > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > > > do you explain that? > > > > Simple. " Lack of empathy " is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria. > [ snip ] > > - Bill, 76, dx AS > > -- > WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA > http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 An actual lack of empathy in my opinion is descriptive of a narcissist not someone who is AS. Of course either AS or NT can be a narcissist. Jennie Re: IEP Jim wrote:> Bill,> > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > do you explain that? Simple. "Lack of empathy" is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria.All of the few AS I know personally have plenty of empathy. All though, and I join with them, find it takes a very long time for that reality to percolate into others' perceptions.I think you'll find most AS on this List will claim at least *some* empathy. Many of us claim (and can display, betimes) quite a lot.- Bill, 76, dx AS; ...empathy enough-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.3/1788 - Release Date: 11/14/2008 1:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would agree with Jennie here. It has not been my experience that lack of empathy is common among AS. Perhaps some folks have thought is was a lack due to things like flat affect or lack of facial expressions which may not match up with words. You can also feel empathy without expressing it too. Often times I have heard the empathy for someone later and much processing time. Lorelie To: aspires-relationships From: mossbtweenmetoes@...Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:00:06 -0800Subject: Re: Empathy An actual lack of empathy in my opinion is descriptive of a narcissist not someone who is AS. Of course either AS or NT can be a narcissist. Jennie Re: IEP Jim wrote:> Bill,> > I understand from reading and from personal experience that at the heart > of AS, is a significant lack of empathy. However, far beyond an intense > interest, your responses show empathy, compassion and sensitivity. How > do you explain that? Simple. "Lack of empathy" is NOT one of the diagnostic criteria.All of the few AS I know personally have plenty of empathy. All though, and I join with them, find it takes a very long time for that reality to percolate into others' perceptions.I think you'll find most AS on this List will claim at least *some* empathy. Many of us claim (and can display, betimes) quite a lot.- Bill, 76, dx AS; ...empathy enough-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.3/1788 - Release Date: 11/14/2008 1:36 PM Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. Sign up today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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