Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids.. I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationships@ya hoogroups.com Subject: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone-I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle. (;I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances.He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb.However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (.Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....).However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving.But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless...Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck.BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there.....Any insight/experience is appreciated.Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (:(By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!).Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds...Best wishes-xo Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 My psychiatrist believes I have comorbidity with my AS and has prescribed stimulant medication. Ritalin made me yawn a great deal and become over tired at night otherwise no improvement in symptoms. I have taking dexamphetamine for some time now. For the first six months I noticed a similar experience as you describe of your husbands behaviour. My wife loved the change in personality and behaviour, especially the my joy in fashion shopping with coffee breaks. Stimulant medication works on dopamine re-uptake and levels. The stimulant medication has lost much of its effectiveness over time. Anti-depressant medication gives me adverse side effects, prozac produced Seratonin syndrome and I was hospitalised. Anti-epileptic medications appear to work well on stabilising my moods. From research I have done into autism and personal communiction with ASD folke the symptoms are certainly treatment resistant. If medication can improve my quality of life I have no aversion to taking any that has a benefit. Will try Topomax early Feb when my psych Dr returns from holidays. I had positve mood change with Tegretol, but the veracious appetite would have caused serious health problems. I did read information suggesting ASD people have low serotonin levels and I spoke with a female Aspergers who indicated tests showed she had low serotnin levels. Perhaps people with autism have issues with low serotonin and dopamine levels which cause secondary mood disorders. BTW enjoy the tender moments while they last, my wife did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 blonde61hubby wrote: > My psychiatrist believes I have comorbidity with my AS and has > prescribed stimulant medication. Ritalin made me yawn a great deal > and become over tired at night otherwise no improvement in symptoms. > I have taking dexamphetamine for some time now. For the first six > months I noticed a similar experience as you describe of your > husbands behaviour. My wife loved the change in personality and > behaviour, especially the my joy in fashion shopping with coffee > breaks. > > Stimulant medication works on dopamine re-uptake and levels. The > stimulant medication has lost much of its effectiveness over time. > Anti-depressant medication gives me adverse side effects, prozac > produced Seratonin syndrome and I was hospitalised. Anti-epileptic > medications appear to work well on stabilising my moods. > >>From research I have done into autism and personal communiction with > ASD folke the symptoms are certainly treatment resistant. If > medication can improve my quality of life I have no aversion to > taking any that has a benefit. Will try Topomax early Feb when my > psych Dr returns from holidays. I had positve mood change with > Tegretol, but the veracious appetite would have caused serious health > problems. > > I did read information suggesting ASD people have low serotonin > levels and I spoke with a female Aspergers who indicated tests showed > she had low serotnin levels. Perhaps people with autism have issues > with low serotonin and dopamine levels which cause secondary mood > disorders. Perhaps *some* " people with autism have issues with... " . Then again perhaps not. Remember there are NO well-controlled studies of the effects of *any* of these drugs on autists. It's all try-it-and-see; trial and error. *Be careful*! - Bill, forever 49, dx AS; ...and skeptical -- WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 blonde61hubby wrote:> . My wife loved the change in personality and > behaviour, especially the my joy in fashion shopping with coffee > breaks.> > me here: there is no drug or no reward that can provide sufficient motivation to want to do that. when you describe of the "wearing off" effect it is called refraction....the same dose has less affect. drug companies are aware of this in their product profile prior to testing for human approval. period to refraction studies are an important make up of drug trial protocols. you need more and dependancy and addiction can follow. 37 m diagnosed AS., shops alone, doesnt do coffee shops. Recent Activity 2 New MembersVisit Your Group New web site? Drive traffic now. Get your business on Yahoo! search. Yahoo! Groups Special K ChallengeJoin others who are losing pounds. Group Charity i-SAFE Keep your kids safer online .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 When was young I used to give him half a cup of Coke before taking him out in public to some place new to him, larger box stores, doctor appointments. While I love coffee, I cannot imagine trying to get that down a kid with an acute aversion to new tastes, smells etc. It did not work for tho. for him it was very explicit schedule cards. One mistake and he filled my back seat with barf. If caffeine would have worked, I would have injected it intervenously. I'm sooooo glad those days are over. Lorelie To: aspires-relationships From: usarian@...Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:30:28 -0600Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids.. I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationships@ya hoogroups.com Subject: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone-I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle. (;I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances.He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb.However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (.Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....).However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving.But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless...Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck.BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there.....Any insight/experience is appreciated.Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (:(By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!).Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds...Best wishes-xo Heidi Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 At 06:13 PM 1/10/2009, wrote: > writes; > " If I were not accepting of being AS, then I might actually need >these drugs " ! > >Not sure what you mean by this statement, appears olique in nature. has been a member here for awhile, and is a really smart gal <smile!> She was not discounting the necessity of (sometimes live-saving) medication for some. And folks with ASDs are not immune to having other challenges such as bi-polar disorder, etc. What meant (correct me if I'm wrong, ) is that for some of us ASD folks, understanding our AS - and the knowledge of how we can maximize our strengths, and overcome our challenges, has made the difference between being depressed and requiring medication, and improving our overall outlook and opportunities in our life. For some of us lucky ones who have no serious biochemical issues to contend with on top of our AS, this knowledge is enough. But thanks for clarifying that medication does indeed have its place. 14 years ago, after a car accident, I went into PTSD, and I rapidly spiralled downward into serious depression, and anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medication yanked me out of that spiral before I needed to be hospitalized, or worse. - Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Helen,Nicely stated! I need to be more careful in anticipating when my meaning will not be quite so clear. Thanks, > writes; >"If I were not accepting of being AS, then I might actually need >these drugs"! > >Not sure what you mean by this statement, appears olique in nature. has been a member here for awhile, and is a really smart gal <smile!> She was not discounting the necessity of (sometimes live-saving) medication for some. And folks with ASDs are not immune to having other challenges such as bi-polar disorder, etc. What meant (correct me if I'm wrong, ) is that for some of us ASD folks, understanding our AS - and the knowledge of how we can maximize our strengths, and overcome our challenges, has made the difference between being depressed and requiring medication, and improving our overall outlook and opportunities in our life. For some of us lucky ones who have no serious biochemical issues to contend with on top of our AS, this knowledge is enough. But thanks for clarifying that medication does indeed have its place. 14 years ago, after a car accident, I went into PTSD, and I rapidly spiralled downward into serious depression, and anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medication yanked me out of that spiral before I needed to be hospitalized, or worse. - Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 mosshm wrote: > Greetings Everyone- > > I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate > the insights from both sides of the aisle. (; Hello again Heidi! I'm glad to find you never really left. > > I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most > unusual of circumstances. > > He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much > physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but > hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he > needed it, and he did ultimately succumb. > > However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man > before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability > that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children > appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (. [ snip, for brevity ] > But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last > night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he > acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, > hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and > massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has > NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man > and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless... > > Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found > that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why > people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the > dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend > to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with > vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck. Haven't tried it or anything else. But see below. > > BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that > said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their > dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. > Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are > currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the > antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out > there..... Good thinking. But I suspect the realities among autists are more complicated than the standard model implies. > > Any insight/experience is appreciated. [ snip ] For insight, I defer to a recent professional CD: " Genetics and Treatment of Bipolar-Spectrum Disorders " , Vol 37, Issue 21, November 7, 2008. This is part of the long-running CME series: " Audio-Digest Psychiatry " (ISSN 0271-1311). Speaker is R. Kelsoe, MD; at UCSD I believe. Although Kelsoe uses Bipolar as his example, the entire talk (about an hour) could as easily have been about autism! The twin problems of diagnosis and treatment (given NO objective test for either condition) are almost identical in both cases. In any event his detailed discussion of the complex relationships of genetics and disease to psychopharmacology is the best I've ever heard or read! You probably know: many in the research community are beginning to think bipolar, autism, and schizophrenia are all together in one big spectrum. In that regard, I think you might find Kelsoe's exposition both enlightening generally, *and* personally useful. I recommend the CD to you; ... BUT ALSO to all those others who've been discussing *medications* for autism/Asperger. Your Medical Library might have it. - Bill, forever 49, dx AS -- WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hi Heidi and all, Just a short note about my husband’s experience taking Marinol which is basically never prescribed except to AIDS and cancer patients with life threatening illness and with no appetites. Back in 1997 Phil took Marinol for 10 months (talked his doctor into it) and the results were phenomenal!!!!!!! Insurance stopped paying though, after 10 months, as Phil did not have an “approved” condition. The amount he took (10 pills a day-I think most AIDS and cancer patients take 3-4 a day) back then, would have cost about $70,000 a year, which we do not/did not have. One big benefit from Marinol is increased dopamine. Phil was able to travel, for a week, to Disneyworld by car with me and my two sons (ages 11 and 9 at the time) and enjoy himself. (Phil rarely enjoys leaving our house). He spent several hours each of 4-5 days at Disneyworld with the boys while I attended the national ASA Conference. His executive function abilities were great and his ability to empathize and communicate with the boys and me was more than you could ever imagine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He still had sensory sensitivities to a degree and anxiety and other problems but he was able to manage these. I cannot describe what this transformation was like. His best friend could not believe how relaxed and “functional” Phil was during this time. Phil was able to enjoy life not just endure it. Before and after this 10 month period Phil often has meltdowns when spending one night away from home unless highly medicated with various tranquilizers. I think you get the picture… St. ’s Wort and a very small dose of an SSRI does help him to function and have some “good” days. These both help with dopamine but Phil’s metabolism must require A TON more dopamine than most. Anyone with other safe ideas on raising dopamine (I think sex falls into this category, too) PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t get to read or post much anymore but I know you are all here and it is very comforting. Wishing everyone on ASPIRES all the best in 2009! Marci age 52 (married 25 years to Phil age 57; sons 23 and 20, stepdaughter 36 and two grandkids 6 and 8 years old (three of the 6 with spectrum diagnoses and the others not far behind…) Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheeler@... www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Usarian Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM To: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids.. I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationships@ya hoogroups.com Subject: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone- I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle. (; I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances. He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb. However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (. Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....). However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving. But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless... Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck. BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there..... Any insight/experience is appreciated. Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (: (By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!). Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds... Best wishes- xo Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Without Googling, I believe dark chocolate does dopamine.. lemme Google and see what pops up.. http://www.raysahelian.com/d opamine.html http://www.integra tivepsychiatry.net/dopamine.html didn't even look at them as my CHICKEN IS BURNING!! OH NOOOO!! From: Wheeler, Marci Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:29 PM To: aspires-relationships@ya hoogroups.com Subject: RE: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Hi Heidi and all, Just a short note about my husband’s experience taking Marinol which is basically never prescribed except to AIDS and cancer patients with life threatening illness and with no appetites. Back in 1997 Phil took Marinol for 10 months (talked his doctor into it) and the results were phenomenal!!!!!!! Insurance stopped paying though, after 10 months, as Phil did not have an “approved” condition. The amount he took (10 pills a day-I think most AIDS and cancer patients take 3-4 a day) back then, would have cost about $70,000 a year, which we do not/did not have. One big benefit from Marinol is increased dopamine. Phil was able to travel, for a week, to Disneyworld by car with me and my two sons (ages 11 and 9 at the time) and enjoy himself. (Phil rarely enjoys leaving our house). He spent several hours each of 4-5 days at Disneyworld with the boys while I attended the national ASA Conference. His executive function abilities were great and his ability to empathize and communicate with the boys and me was more than you could ever imagine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He still had sensory sensitivities to a degree and anxiety and other problems but he was able to manage these. I cannot describe what this transformation was like. His best friend could not believe how relaxed and “functional” Phil was during this time. Phil was able to enjoy life not just endure it. Before and after this 10 month period Phil often has meltdowns when spending one night away from home unless highly medicated with various tranquilizers. I think you get the picture… St. ’s Wort and a very small dose of an SSRI does help him to function and have some “good” days. These both help with dopamine but Phil’s metabolism must require A TON more dopamine than most. Anyone with other safe ideas on raising dopamine (I think sex falls into this category, too) PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t get to read or post much anymore but I know you are all here and it is very comforting. Wishing everyone on ASPIRES all the best in 2009! Marci age 52 (married 25 years to Phil age 57; sons 23 and 20, stepdaughter 36 and two grandkids 6 and 8 years old (three of the 6 with spectrum diagnoses and the others not far behind…) Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheelerindiana (DOT) edu www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of UsarianSent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids.. I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationshi ps@ya hoogroups.com Subject: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone-I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle. (;I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances.He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb.However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (.Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....).However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving.But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless...Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck.BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there.....Any insight/experience is appreciated.Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (:(By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!).Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds...Best wishes-xo Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thank you for this great information! Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheeler@... www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Usarian Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:25 PM To: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Without Googling, I believe dark chocolate does dopamine.. lemme Google and see what pops up.. http://www.raysahelian.com/d opamine.html http://www.integra tivepsychiatry.net/dopamine.html didn't even look at them as my CHICKEN IS BURNING!! OH NOOOO!! From: Wheeler, Marci Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:29 PM To: aspires-relationships@ya hoogroups.com Subject: RE: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Hi Heidi and all, Just a short note about my husband’s experience taking Marinol which is basically never prescribed except to AIDS and cancer patients with life threatening illness and with no appetites. Back in 1997 Phil took Marinol for 10 months (talked his doctor into it) and the results were phenomenal!!!!!!! Insurance stopped paying though, after 10 months, as Phil did not have an “approved” condition. The amount he took (10 pills a day-I think most AIDS and cancer patients take 3-4 a day) back then, would have cost about $70,000 a year, which we do not/did not have. One big benefit from Marinol is increased dopamine. Phil was able to travel, for a week, to Disneyworld by car with me and my two sons (ages 11 and 9 at the time) and enjoy himself. (Phil rarely enjoys leaving our house). He spent several hours each of 4-5 days at Disneyworld with the boys while I attended the national ASA Conference. His executive function abilities were great and his ability to empathize and communicate with the boys and me was more than you could ever imagine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He still had sensory sensitivities to a degree and anxiety and other problems but he was able to manage these. I cannot describe what this transformation was like. His best friend could not believe how relaxed and “functional” Phil was during this time. Phil was able to enjoy life not just endure it. Before and after this 10 month period Phil often has meltdowns when spending one night away from home unless highly medicated with various tranquilizers. I think you get the picture… St. ’s Wort and a very small dose of an SSRI does help him to function and have some “good” days. These both help with dopamine but Phil’s metabolism must require A TON more dopamine than most. Anyone with other safe ideas on raising dopamine (I think sex falls into this category, too) PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t get to read or post much anymore but I know you are all here and it is very comforting. Wishing everyone on ASPIRES all the best in 2009! Marci age 52 (married 25 years to Phil age 57; sons 23 and 20, stepdaughter 36 and two grandkids 6 and 8 years old (three of the 6 with spectrum diagnoses and the others not far behind…) Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheeler@... www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Usarian Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM To: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids.. I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationshi ps@ya hoogroups.com Subject: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone- I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle. (; I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances. He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb. However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (. Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....). However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving. But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless... Of course, with my science/biochemistry background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck. BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there..... Any insight/experience is appreciated. Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (: (By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!). Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds... Best wishes- xo Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I love dark chocolate!Yum!To: "aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:21:16 AMSubject: RE: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Thank you for this great information! Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheelerindiana (DOT) edu www.iidc.indiana. edu/irca From: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:aspires- relationships@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Usarian Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:25 PM To: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com Subject: Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Without Googling, I believe dark chocolate does dopamine.. lemme Google and see what pops up.. http://www.raysahel ian.com/d opamine.html http://www.integra tivepsychiatry. net/dopamine.. html didn't even look at them as my CHICKEN IS BURNING!! OH NOOOO!! From: Wheeler, Marci Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:29 PM To: aspires-relationshi ps@ya hoogroups.com Subject: RE: [aspires-relationsh ips] re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Hi Heidi and all, Just a short note about my husband’s experience taking Marinol which is basically never prescribed except to AIDS and cancer patients with life threatening illness and with no appetites. Back in 1997 Phil took Marinol for 10 months (talked his doctor into it) and the results were phenomenal!! !!!!! Insurance stopped paying though, after 10 months, as Phil did not have an “approved” condition. The amount he took (10 pills a day-I think most AIDS and cancer patients take 3-4 a day) back then, would have cost about $70,000 a year, which we do not/did not have. One big benefit from Marinol is increased dopamine. Phil was able to travel, for a week, to Disneyworld by car with me and my two sons (ages 11 and 9 at the time) and enjoy himself. (Phil rarely enjoys leaving our house). He spent several hours each of 4-5 days at Disneyworld with the boys while I attended the national ASA Conference. His executive function abilities were great and his ability to empathize and communicate with the boys and me was more than you could ever imagine!!!!! !!!!!!!!! ! He still had sensory sensitivities to a degree and anxiety and other problems but he was able to manage these. I cannot describe what this transformation was like. His best friend could not believe how relaxed and “functional” Phil was during this time. Phil was able to enjoy life not just endure it. Before and after this 10 month period Phil often has meltdowns when spending one night away from home unless highly medicated with various tranquilizers. I think you get the picture… St. ’s Wort and a very small dose of an SSRI does help him to function and have some “good” days. These both help with dopamine but Phil’s metabolism must require A TON more dopamine than most. Anyone with other safe ideas on raising dopamine (I think sex falls into this category, too) PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!!!!!! !!! I don’t get to read or post much anymore but I know you are all here and it is very comforting. Wishing everyone on ASPIRES all the best in 2009! Marci age 52 (married 25 years to Phil age 57; sons 23 and 20, stepdaughter 36 and two grandkids 6 and 8 years old (three of the 6 with spectrum diagnoses and the others not far behind…) Marci Wheeler, M.S.W. Indiana Resource Center for Autism Indiana Institute on Disability and Community 2853 E. Tenth Street Bloomington, IN 47408 Phone: Fax: mwheelerindiana (DOT) edu www.iidc.indiana. edu/irca From: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:aspires- relationships@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Usarian Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM To: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com Subject: Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Personally, I'm all for my wife increasing my dopamine levels Seriously though, with our .. he's 6 and severely autistic.. when he's melting down a lot, e gives him a strong cup of coffee and that calms him down, even puts him to sleep if he has enough of it. Talking to 's special needs teacher, she recommends coffee to all the parents of ASD kids... I know basically NOTHING of biochemistry, so I have no idea why that works or if it's related, but that's our experience with drugs and the spectrum. From: mosshm Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:13 AM To: aspires-relationshi ps@ya hoogroups.com Subject: [aspires-relationsh ips] re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! Greetings Everyone- I haven't posted in a very long time, but have lurked here and there. I always appreciate the insights from both sides of the aisle.. (; I witnessed and amazing, nay, miraculous transformation in my AS husband in the most unusual of circumstances. He unfortunately had 2 incidents over the past few months which brought him much physical pain--root canals/tooth issues and back pain. He is not a very good patient, but hates taking any medication. However, his doctors pushed him to take vicodin when he needed it, and he did ultimately succumb. However, upon taking the medication, for those few hours I could not believe the man before me. There was empathy. There was a sincere response to my needs. A new ability that did not exist before for sure. He even interacted and cared for the children appropriately (albeit a bit sleepily (. Now I know many NT's differ in their feelings about their AS spouses. I do not wish to fundamentally change my spouse--after all, many of the qualities of AS I find attractive (the geeky parts: single focus, success, shyness, naivtee....) . However, the aspects which are often vented here (lack of empathy, bluntness, withdraw, lack of affection, and in my case, crass outbursts) have truly taken a toll on our marriage and I have more than once entertained leaving. But this incredible situation has given me an odd sense of hope. After a horrible night last night of complete miscommunication (and what I call an extreme Aspie episode--he acknowledges that as well...), one vicodin tonight, and an hour later he came to me, hugged me, led me to his computer room, sat me down on the couch and hugged and massaged me. No words. Just extreme snuggles. And complete giving on his part. This has NEVER happened in our marriage!! It felt SO strange I almost felt like it was another man and felt oddly guilty about it, but loved it nonetheless. .. Of course, with my science/biochemistr y background I madly googled after that. I found that vicodin, in addition to its pain-killing abilities, upregulates dopamine (that is why people get addicted to it....). Then, I saw that Asperger's can also be linked to the dopamine system. What intrigued me though was some conflicting information. They tend to prescribe drugs that REDUCE dopamine function, which counters my experience with vicodin helping. I wonder if any AS here tried such meds with luck/no luck. BUT counter to that (and reassuring from my vicodin standpoint) I also found data that said asperger's has increased dopamine beta hydroxylase, which means that their dopamine is being converted to norepinephrine. Ergo, reducing their pools of dopamine. Ergo, getting more dopamine (like from vicodin ( would HELP!!! And the meds they are currently using to curb dopamine would NOT help! A better approach would be from the antidepressant family which targets dopamine reuptake...To keep more dopamine out there..... Any insight/experience is appreciated. Also, I am thinking of revealing this data to him so that he may be convinced to seek professional help/maybe get meds. To the other AS' out there: would this tactic work? Should I ask him while he is on the vicodin?? (: (By the way, vicodin is addictive, so do not get your AS person on it...my husband takes it only for 2 days then months go by, etc...But he has taken it enough times for me to see this incredible result!!!!). Thanks so much...maybe there is help after all without sacrificing any AS qualities that are not harmful to our marriage...the best of all possible worlds... Best wishes- xo Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well, that's good to know, > > , > > <grin> I have not been in mathematics competition since college, but it was interesting and fun, and I met lots of great people- maybe even a few neurotypicals...LOL! > > Creative work is more fun, to me. Teramwork is fine, too- and then, nobody gets blown out of the water- hopefully, there are no snafus in AS/NT interaction. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: aspires-relationships > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:08:31 PM > Subject: Re: re-opening the medication issue: dopamine? and the WONDERS of vicodin!!! > > > Nah, 's of very high intelligence. I shudder to think what > would happen if I were in a math challenge against her (and I thought > that working on logic problems strengthened my mind). Does the old > saying, " being blown out of the water " , ring a bell, anyone? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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