Did your AS have anything to do with your divorce?

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Bill:

Thanks. It has been an amazing journey for many of us.

Did your AS have anything to do with your divorce? I believe it had everything to do with it. Remember though all that was a half-century ago. Nobody had a clue about AS, or anything like it

Would U agree that this is true today with spouses and partners that reach out to boards like ours and support as we still don't have a clue what AS really is or who really has it? Times have not changed that much.... If your first marriage had issues with your AS, it stands to reason that a partner with AS can have the same impact on "their" relationships. No? If not, why?

By your above statment, was the impact of your AS in your 1st marriage different from issues NT/NT marriages have and why? The only reason I ask is your words sometimes imply that AS is not a factor in a mixed marriage or that issues raised on this board are just normal run of the mill marriage issues. Just trying to undertand what your real message to mixed couples is??? How do U think your AS affected your 1s marriage?

You have been there and done it but many are starting at square one and are frustrating and at the end of their rope.

Been there, done it

[Guest guest]

Newland wrote:

> Bill:

>

> Thanks. It has been an amazing journey for many of us.

>

> /*Did your AS have anything to do with your divorce? I believe it had

> everything to do with it. Remember though all that was a half-century

> ago. Nobody had a clue about AS, or anything like it*/

> *//*

>

> Would U agree that this is true today with spouses and partners that

> reach out to boards like ours and support

Yes. But *guardedly*, because the " mental-health " environment today has

exploded far beyond what it was when I was young. And that's NOT all to

the good IMO.

Because (loosely paraphrasing Will ): " It ain't that we don't

know more - it's that so much of what we 'know' _ain't true_. "

> as we still don't have a clue

> what AS really is or who really has it?

Too true, *especially* in the USA. Regarding " autism " , the USA is among

the most backward countries on Earth.

For *real* knowledge one must look to Europe, especially the UK, and

specifically to Britain, Australia, ...even Ireland.

> Times have not changed that

> much....

Change is coming though; and soon, I think.

But the USA will be the last to embrace it when it comes. Wa-a-ay

too many vested interests here, too many deeply entrenched (but/and

wrong) attitudes.

> If your first marriage had issues with your AS, it stands to

> reason that a partner with AS can have the same impact on " their "

> relationships. No? If not, why?

Yes. BUT, while AS may be about what it's always been, the *NT*

population has changed *enormously* in its attitudes to, well,

....everything.

The " me first " mentality, and greed generally is the order of the

day. Caring for and about others is less prominent now than even 20

years ago. *NT*s add the weight of *their* escalating stress to our world.

Meaning of course enormously increased stress on marriages -- coming

from NTs *as well as* from AS!

Remember: in numbers alone, it's NTs who've been enriching the

mental-health " professionals " of the world.

>

> By your above statment, was the impact of your AS in your 1st marriage

> different from issues NT/NT marriages have and why?

I don't think so. Not different in *kind* anyway.

AS hasn't a lock on anything unique, as far as we know. If it did,

we'll be well on the way toward an objective test.

But *intensity* counts. What AS *does* have, is an em-PHA-sis on some

behavioral SYLL-ables which AS and NT have in common. *Shared* ordinary

behavior, but sometimes warped and carried to extremes by the AS partner.

In marriage especially, with its heightened reliance on " social "

communication, the " trigger " for AS-specific behavior often is the NT's

non-specific behavior. That happened to me and my ex.

We've even seen that on this List.

See below for more...

> The only reason I

> ask is your words sometimes imply that AS is not a factor in a mixed

> marriage

It's *always* a factor! There, for the record, I said it.

But always only *one* factor. All the *other* baggage people bring

into each other's lives always is there too.

Too often people don't see that. Or don't want to see it. Then AS gets

the blame. It's human nature to avoid blaming our *natural selves*.

> or that issues raised on this board are just normal run of the

> mill marriage issues. Just trying to undertand what your real message

> to mixed couples is??? How do U think your AS affected your 1s marriage?

I " see " and understand the world very differently from most NTs. I've a

visual-spatial cognitive style which most NTs just don't " get " . They

don't *have* it.

My ex-wife didn't have it either; she surely didn't " get it " .

But of course, neither did I. **I'd never been married before.**

Never had that kind of close relationship thrust on me before. In the

end, I couldn't handle our increasingly frequent conflicts any better

than she could. The death-spiral began.

Neither of us could stop it. Because neither of us was equipped to

*deeply* understand the other. Nor even to fathom *why* we couldn't

understand.

I'd always imputed to others the ability to *think* as well as I do, or

at least *like* I do. We're all ordinary humans, right?

Until I married I'd *no idea* how wrong that was! It took a friendly

argument with my ex's school-psychologist mother to start me thinking.

ME, after making a point: " ... and everyone thinks that way! "

SHE, with a pitying(?) look: " No, Bill. They don't. ...At all. "

She was one hell-of a smart lady; I valued her opinions. The ensuing

conversation started me on near 50-years of studying cognition. All

levels; all styles. Perseveratively, ...like a good little AS.

In the end, finally discovering AS 40-odd years later, it all *made

sense*! And was the basis for salvation of my present marriage.

>

> You have been there and done it but many are starting at square one and

> are frustrating and at the end of their rope.

Yes, and nobody has more sympathy for those *couples* than I.

But to solve problems, one must know what those problems *actually are*.

On *both* sides of the marital fence. Misinformation, weak

information, or/and guesswork doesn't cut it. ...Makes the problem worse.

>

>

> Been there, done it

- Bill, 76, dx AS a few years ago.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

>Because (loosely paraphrasing Will ): "It ain't that we don't know more - it's that so much of what we 'know' _ain't true_."> as we still don't have a clue > what AS really is or who really has it?Too true, *especially* in the USA. Regarding "autism", the USA is among the most backward countries on Earth.For *real* knowledge one must look to Europe, especially the UK, and specifically to Britain, Australia, ...even Ireland.> Times have not changed that > much....Change is coming though; and soon, I think.But the USA will be the last to embrace it when it comes. Wa-a-ay too many vested interests here, too many deeply entrenched (but/and wrong) attitudes.> If your first marriage had issues with your AS, it stands to > reason that a partner with AS can have the same impact on "their" > relationships. No? If not,

why?bill said:

I'd always imputed to others the ability to *think* as well as I do, or at least *like* I do. We're all ordinary humans, right?Until I married I'd *no idea* how wrong that was! It took a friendly argument with my ex's school-psychologist mother to start me thinking.ME, after making a point: "... and everyone thinks that way!"SHE, with a pitying(?) look: "No, Bill. They don't. ...At all."

me here:

yes this was a defining moment for me too.

i dont know what others think but i had presumed incorrectly that i, thought like everyone and conversely, everyone thought like me.

when i realised this was not so, life became...so...much.....easier.

do non-AS presume others think like them...exactly like them?

37 m diagnosed AS. what i think is the same as you. how and why is always different. always.

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you: do non-AS presume others think like them...exactly like them?

me: I had to laugh when I read this because Usarian and I had many an argument when we first got married about this very thing. He always assumed everyone thought exactly like him (which of course was right and perfect LOL )

He thought everyone was quite literally exactly the same. When I would point out just how diverse the everyone is in personality and ways of thinking he would say "That is just WRONG"

He has come to terms with the fact not everyone thinks the way that he does but his gut reaction is still "That is just WRONG"

I have come to terms with the fact that he feels this way and we haven't argued over it for the last 7 or 8 years.

e

From: david bailey

Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:08 AM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: Did your AS have anything to do with your divorce?

>Because (loosely paraphrasing Will ): "It ain't that we don't know more - it's that so much of what we 'know' _ain't true_."> as we still don't have a clue > what AS really is or who really has it?Too true, *especially* in the USA. Regarding "autism", the USA is among the most backward countries on Earth.For *real* knowledge one must look to Europe, especially the UK, and specifically to Britain, Australia, ...even Ireland.> Times have not changed that > much....Change is coming though; and soon, I think.But the USA will be the last to embrace it when it comes. Wa-a-ay too many vested interests here, too many deeply entrenched (but/and wrong) attitudes.> If your first marriage had issues with your AS, it stands to > reason that a partner with AS can have the same impact on "their" > relationships. No? If not, why?bill said:

I'd always imputed to others the ability to *think* as well as I do, or at least *like* I do. We're all ordinary humans, right?Until I married I'd *no idea* how wrong that was! It took a friendly argument with my ex's school-psychologist mother to start me thinking.ME, after making a point: "... and everyone thinks that way!"SHE, with a pitying(?) look: "No, Bill. They don't. ...At all."

me here:

yes this was a defining moment for me too.

i dont know what others think but i had presumed incorrectly that i, thought like everyone and conversely, everyone thought like me.

when i realised this was not so, life became...so...much.....easier.

do non-AS presume others think like them...exactly like them?

37 m diagnosed AS. what i think is the same as you. how and why is always different. always.

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[Guest guest]

> do non-AS presume others think like them...exactly like them?

Brilliant question!

I recognised when I was about 20 years-old that people can have views

which are totally different and even be in opposition yet BOTH be

right (from their different perspectives) - but my AS husband still

can't get that concept. If we have different ideas, he has to give in

rather than find a compromise or a third way or an acceptable

alternative. On the other hand, my AS mother will fight to the death

for supremacy rather than...(ditto!). ;-)

Both are saying " my thought is the only 'right' one " . My husband

hasn't given up his thought - he chose a long time ago to let the

other person think they had won. And all those years I thought we

were in harmony! Meanwhile he was arrogantly hiding his own truth.

Humph! ;-)

The world is full of paradoxes. I think that the concept of

'paradoxes' may be challenging for someone with AS - ???

Try this for size (!)...

I got married KNOWING that we all are different, think differently.

But what tripped me up was assuming that everybody else knows that.

(There's another paradox!?)

We all make assumptions (without thinking about it) that other people

are playing the same social 'game' - we couldn't function if we

couldn't assume some kind of mutual ground.

So it still comes as a surprise to me to discover that other people

are playing a different 'game' - and nobody told me either the name of

the game or the rules for that particular game. And that's because

the other person thinks differently, judges the world from a different

perspective, wants a different outcome. There are people who play to

win and people who play to cooperate, for example. There are people

who play by the rules, people who play to avoid them at all costs, and

people who 'fudge' the rules.

And sometimes they turn up in places you don't expect to find them.

So there are murky waters for NTs, too.

And some NTs have more awareness than others that other people think

differently, My AS hubby has more awareness than I do! My son would

claim that this demonstrates the difference between naivety (mine) and

realism (his). I always give people the benefit of the doubt and

believe they ultimately want harmony and happiness. Apparently not!

;-)

[Guest guest]

>>A: I recognised when I was about 20 years-old that people can have viewswhich are totally different and even be in opposition yet BOTH beright (from their different perspectives)<<

If you (or anyone) could give a specific example of this for me to internally chew on that would be helpful to me. This is something I have thought on until I can feel my brain's gears grinding and have yet to 'get it'. Thanks,

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Jennie Unknown wrote:

> >>A: I recognised when I was about 20 years-old that people can have views

> which are totally different and even be in opposition yet BOTH be

> right (from their different perspectives)<<

>

> If you (or anyone) could give a specific example of this for me to

> internally chew on that would be helpful to me. This is something I have

> thought on until I can feel my brain's gears grinding and have yet to

> 'get it'. Thanks,

>

> Jennie AS

" Elementary, my dear " . All propositions, to be valid, must have

premises.

If two people start with different premises, they're very likely to

wind up in strong opposition to each other.

IF their two premises are sufficiently fundamental (nothing other

than faith, or Belief to support them), THEN each may KNOW they're RIGHT.

And neither can be dissuaded of their position, because it's not

possible to prove them wrong.

E.g.:

Atheist : Everything has a beginning and an end.

Believer: God is Eternal, hence has no beginning, no end.

- Bill, 76, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

WD Loughman wrote:

> If two people start with different premises, they're very likely to

> wind up in strong opposition to each other.

Indeed, Confusing he say: no argument to co-habitation, but living

opposite in same road bad.

[Guest guest]

Tim Channon wrote:

> WD Loughman wrote:

>

>> If two people start with different premises, they're very likely to

>> wind up in strong opposition to each other.

>

> Indeed, Confusing he say: no argument to co-habitation, but living

> opposite in same road bad.

Heh! Good one, Tim, ...good one!

- Bill, 76, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm