Half is NT's solution Half is AS ...

[Guest guest]

Here is my question? If it is a equal relationship in all ways, than WHY is an AS partner entiltled to benefits where an NS partner is not to emcompass their differences and claim a disabaility? How can U have it both ways? If AS is just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a disability?

Just curious.

Because if it different it is defective in the ways of NT's and NT's and NT's do not understand the language of AS.

Unless a person understand to speak the other's person's language, then understanding is not possible.

Sign Language is not understood by many, unless you know how to sign, you are not able to

communicate. WE are not defective, We are differently able.

If an Aspie is able to see things with logic before the see them with emotions Do that makes then Disable?

In the same Token, If an NT is not able to see things with logic, but with emotions, do that makes me disable?

No, we are just differently able.

We would do fine in many ways, in our own ways and our own manners. We used to be better off long ago in the "sense" of people being more acceptant and tolerant of rigidity....... Old fashion stuff. A man person in the spectrum was seen as someone to be admired and respected, their abilities were better accepted due to the ay of thinking and living on those days.

Now a days, things are far more hypocritical and the Media has cooperated to make society far more lousy, and if you do not comply with "social rules" then you are odd, and different and being different now a day is being wrong. Being different before was at worse being eccentric.

Has anyone heard before that a lot of times people in the spectrum find happiness with people from other countries where man and brightness are seen as abilities and the eccentricity of a person is only part of being intelligent and effective?

Well, there it goes, a person in the spectrum here is labeled as "disable" far faster than it will be able in a negative way abroad.......

One thing I do praise God for, and I COUNT as blessing, and that is that I was born and raised in a country were I was not seeing as defective, and as defective I was not treated, neither MADE feel defective or lesser as a human being. It is because of that, that my mind is set to think of me and like me a lot. It is because of the tribulations that I had when little that I was able to learn to behave accordingly, YET I was never made feel I was defective.

People always pointed my abilities and focused on them, not my hardships.

It was not considered that my problems with hand writing were due to I being defective or disable. It was considered as an obstacle I had to overcome one way or another, the focus was on progress not on feeling pity for me and giving me the least there could be as to think I was only capable of that.

Great people in the spectrum have achieved a lot, if you are an achiever, will this person be considered disable?

is Bill Gates (assuming he has AS) disable?

Do people think of Albert Einstein as disable? Do they remember him for his messy hair or for what he discovered? Was he disable because he has a peculiar hair due?

No, of course not.......

Also, if the person with AS is the one who should Improve....... Why should you expect them to improve if you will consider them disable, in which case, how much more of the 50% of the responsibility to MAKE the improvement will fall in the NT?

In which case they should be just being "understanding" and not demanding that we AS make the changes.......

Why cannot an NT be less emotional?

Why should not be them the one being less talkative and needy of constant recognition?

Why could they not be less social and more homey?

Why could they not worry so much about keeping up with the ' and instead live more simple lives?

Why shouldn't NT's complain less and be more intellectual?

Why could not NT's give exact account of things, and give proof of them as well?

Why should they not be the ones COMMUNICATING in ways we could understand?

If I am so disable, then why do you insist that I make the connecting for you, why don't you make them for me?

If I was to see and ask NT's to do that for me who am AS, then wouldn't the NT be the disable one as they cannot get through me, as they could not communicate with me?

Why should I

If the AS is disable, then why wanting your AS partner to become suddenly able to make changes?

We feel differently than NT's, we are wired differently than NT, we live life differently

than NT's but this does not makes us disable, this make us able in a different way.

If an NT child gets in trouble with the law, do this make him disable or a person who ignores what he is expected instead of making bad choices?

IF the parent has not provided the child with right tools to be a good law abiding citizen do this make the parent disable as not to be able to get through the mind and heart of their child and teach them the right doctrines or rules, or ways of living or whatever you wish to call it?

The media, the so called experts make thing more difficult on the parents and also children to a degree....... The moral gets down to only read how defeated they should be for their kids....... yet urges them to keep on trying. Why do they do so, why do they focus so much in the negativity? Well, because it sells!

Many a times when I read a book that an expert has written and I see NT's marveling at what they say....... I wonder how long will it take to get the "new" myth out of the mind of people, so that they can get to the bottom of things and the truth. I wonder when NT's will understand that an expert opinion's is only that , an opinion and it can be right or wrong.

I am pretty good at whatever I put my mind to do....... and I could compete with an NT in the social stuff....... I am pretty much aware of what I am to do, and I am also able to do it. Yet I prefer not doing it as I feel it is a waste of time....... Except if I make it worth it and then I do not only do it, but I also enjoy it.

I am falling asleep now, but will write more later on.

I hope it makes sense and if it does not, then I will re-write it when I have both my eyes open at the same time.......

Take good care and have a good night!

, who had a nice New Years dinner with an old, old friend!

PS-- Learning about diversity will make anyone, NT or AS more capable to set their mind in the right mode, one of cooperation in the fact that it will prepare them to see that the other person is different and that in their differences there are lots of strength. Then they can focus on the strength and work on the side on the weaknesses. Eventually the weaknesses will become lesser, and the good traits will become stronger. Then bonding and more trust in the partner will occur and also this will bring more understanding of who we are and what we are about.

A lot of the time people take a long time to vent, but what do they really do to go beyond the venting....... How do they improve the communication gap when their first thought is one that says, he can't change, he doe snot want to understand, he, he, he, he.......

Learning to understand the concept of diversity ]will improve the chances to open one mind to a better communicating by the mere fact that the other person is a human being who

is differently wired, and differently able.

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[Guest guest]

>>If AS is just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a disability?

Just curious.

<<

I do not claim it as a disability, in any case is my ability to be AS.

how am I disable? I work, I get alone with others, I do an excellent job and I have a social life. I also enjoy my private life to a great degree.

I provide for myself, and I am able to speak a different language. I travel fine and alone or with my brother. I drive and have an excellent driving record, and the most important thing is that I am mostly happy....... When am I sad, or under the weather emotionally....... When my heart gets broken, but does it get broken for NT's as well?

Let me ask you this....... And I truly hope this time this conversation does not turns the way it turned the last time I asked this.

What do NT females want emotionally form their partners?

Why do they get stuck in the word diversity or different culture INSTEAD of going and do research in what it means to have diversity in the work place and also in the community?

Once you see the concept and understand the concept, then you might be able to learn how to MAKE the connection with the AS spouse!

Isn't after all better communicating what you want, so that the problems can be solved?

Well, in the AS culture, we have an specific way of communicating and it is not that difficult if the truth is being put on the table and the "facts" are laid out. It is possible as it brings trust to both of the partners.

Trust is gained, it is earned and for us, our culture trust is imperative as it makes us give with confidence to our partner.

That is part of our culture and one you understand it, then we can go ahead and move forward. Now I have an obligation as AS to also learn about your culture and respect your ways as well, and also to accommodate to be table TO be PROGRESSIVE AND PROACTIVE and not reactive.

It takes work, hard work and also it takes willingness by both parties to do this together. It will bond you both at the end and it will make you feel great as you both will come closer.

THE SAD PART OF ALL OF THIS IS THAT I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT WORK FOR US as SO THAT YOU CAN TRY TO FIND THE SOLUTION TO YOUR DILEMMAS.......

YET IT IS A PROBLEM TO JUST GIVE IT A TRY WITHOUT MAKING AN ISSUE OF IT!

This is not to argue, yet I care to help. Often NT's posts trying to ask for help and asking what could I do to do this or that?

Any suggestions? And when I give a suggestion, the suggestion and its validity is questioned instead of seeing the positive of it and give it a try. If what NT's has not work, then why not trying to see what an AS says might work? What is there to loose?

It is in this moments that I think that my mind is not that narrow and that NT's mind tend to be narrow and quite negative. At least try to give a try to learn about diversity, and if nothing else, it will make more knowledgeable toward others difference, let those difference be about religion, ethnicity, politics or whatever there is.......

I really need to go to bed, I just hit the screen of the computer with my head!

did you feel the bump?! :-P

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[Guest guest]

>>If AS is just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a disability?

Just curious.

<<

For the same reasons NT or any other people claim disability. Because of personality, because it's easier, because it's there and available and people say, "Hey, all you got to do is sign up and the gov. will give you this for free.", because someone might have other conditions along with their AS, because of how they grew up and how they were taught, etc.

I'm AS and don't get any payments or help of any kind from any person, group, or government for myself nor for my kids. (Even when I need it.) I deal with all the 'issues' myself because I truly believe AS is a difference NOT a disability. I really believe that my difficulties and those of other AS folk I have talked to online or met are no worse than the difficulties you NT folk live with. Our difficulties have been talked about more and made a bigger deal of because they are different than the NORM but that doesn't make them worse, it makes them appear worse. It also leads to some AS thinking they are worse because they take literally what people say. If people tell them their whole life that they need help, etc then they are likely to believe that and thus think they do not have the option to live free. Which is by the way one of the biggest reasons I do not want government assistance of any sort. Because you have to sign away your privacy and freedom in order to get the care. Not worth it to me.

Just me!

Jennie

[Guest guest]

In the end, I had to learn to accept her in all her "flawed" NTness (inaccurate, incomplete, and emotional) and after I was able to do that, THEN she was able to start accepting me in all my "flawed" ASness (excessively precise, excessively transparent/open, rigid, and routine based, and obsessive).. and even that only with the help of Aspires.

Usarian,

I hope you had great holidays! :-) And a wonderful New Year filled with lots of awesome blessings!

About your post above.......

It is so nice to know that there are others out there who think and feel like I do, it makes me feel I belong somehow somewhere.

I see us being this way as being differently able, but never disable!

It would be as ridiculously as to think that:

Just because I tend to be more intellectual than most NT's it mean to be Disable in the Social world.

Just because NT's tend to be more Social than most As's it means to be Disable in the Intellectual world.

In reality it all means that We are differently able and by using the assets in a proactive way, we are more prepared to help understand each other's cultures or worlds.

I am happy you are an Aspie and that you are proactive and in Aspires too :-)

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[Guest guest]

OK ,I will play Angel's Advocate: If the world were full of AS folk, and being NT were the rqarity, then I think that NT would count as a disability. <grin>In all seriousness, being NT involves abilities, including the ability to see the big picture, process and understand the feelings of others from a face alone (even eyes alone!), and more. Some people have other impairments. For me, the fact that I cannot "read" other people as well as an NT is one of my greatest impairments, so if there were more AS in the world, or if NTs were willing to just show their emotions directly without masking them, then I would be less impaired-significantly! In the near future, I will start learning to read faces where there are two emotions on them at the same time- or veiled anger- but I am not there yet!

In real-time, I can read trust and caring and kindness and confusion and surprise- and two years ago, I could not do this! Every day is new to me!, in what way would any NT on this list feel impaired?Happy New Year,So Thu, 1/1/09, Newland wrote:Subject: Half is NT's solution Half is AS ...To: aspires-relationships Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 3:03 AM

Same responsibility goes for the NT in the relationship, it is not all that a person in the spectrum needs to "change". */ It is a partnership. ..

Here is my question? If it is a equal relationship in all ways, than WHY is an AS partner entiltled to benefits where an NS partner is not to emcompass their differences and claim a disabaility? How can U have it both ways? If AS is just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a disability?

Just curious.

[Guest guest]

linda said:

Here is my question? If it is a equal relationship in all ways, than WHY is an AS partner entiltled to benefits where an NS partner is not to emcompass their differences and claim a disabaility? How can U have it both ways? If AS is just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a disability?

Just curious.

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I am more intellectual than most NT's I know and with whom I interact.

I try and have made a promise to myself NOT to show the intellect as it represent lots of troubles.

If you perceive that as being theory of mind, I can also perceive and turn the wheel as to use that for a lot of NT's who "think" they know what we are about-- or what we are feeling as what they think they see is what is there.......

You can point things out and label it as well....... And if you read the whole message a lot of people understood what I was trying to make ( I got few private e-mails about it), a point NOT an accusation.

I thank you as I believe your intentions are good. Yet the whole point is missing, it is an example of what can be perceive by others as being disable or not.

In

stead see that the abilities are used to canalized and help proactively interact with each other better. That is what I am trying to say, there is NOT right or wrong. It is what it is and we got to learn to work with what we have.

That is the point, I still feel you are taking this as something to be argued about. It is not my intentions to make arguments, I am far past that. It is to try to help, "to help" by trying to show somehow how could there be a path to better understating each other.

In any case, if someone calls me disable because I am an Aspie, I personally find it funny.

I manage to stand on my own tow feet, I provide for myself, I have friends and go out and do social stuff. Yet I enjoy and thrive a lot more in my own interests when I am alone. If I had a partner, I am consciously aware that I am going to like what he also likes as I am always interested to feel what someone I am with feels by learning their likings.

See, I am using my intellect to be able to get to the social aspects of how a person likes living life. It is to use what we have available to make the connection. The way I do it, is by learning a new skill the person I am with likes or knows. It is my advantage that I like boy type stuff. I like car racing, I like outdoors, I like bowling, I like changing the oil in my car, and looking at the car fluids and making sure they are alright. I like hat type of stuff.

So since I am in a way interested in that type of stuff, it makes it easier for me to use my interest to make a way to make the emotional connections with the person I am with.

I also like cooking, it is my hubby, and if a guy likes eating, the better for me, he will get his favorite food daily, a hot palters of food. I used to work full time and also came home to make complete dinner. I like doing girly stuff as well, so I will try to incorporate those things in a relationship. If a guy likes to be with me in the same room while I cook, I might ask him if he wants to help me and then we both will be doing something together. If he says no, then he can do what he wants to do and while I cook. Yet, the food and the

time we use to eat it will be for both of us to bond.

However, this things as simple as they sound are things that also needs to be discussed with a partner. Not every day will be the same as the needs of everyone changes form time to time. It is a trail error way of doing things, and of trying things....... All in the name of trying to work to reach a common goal.

Maybe someone else here can point out what I am trying to say or do.

Maybe someone else here can point out what you are trying to ask. So I might be able to find a way to express myself better.

It is not about arguing or making someone feel they are wrong. It is about communication.

No one is wrong, No one is right. It is about trying to make the connections without the burdens of "accusations". I am sorry if you thought I was accusing NT's to be one mayor another, it was an example as to emphasize what my point is. And it is that those are abilities not disabilities. To be the way we are is an ability, to be the way NT's are is an ability. Yet those this and ways are different abilities for both worlds or cultures.

It is about trying to give examples, in reality I am happy and I do well with the relationships I have, even with ex I am still share a harmonious talk and productive when we happen to talk.

I am alright, and so are you.

My AS is not something I see as I being handicapped; it represent that I have to learn to be more in tune with other people views and world; but don't we all have to learn to live in peace and more harmoniously.

Like you say,

This is just me.

Once more, the point is how do we go forward in communicating without turning everything one says and even "examples" to make a pint into a pointless argument.

It is irrelevant, there are hundreds of NT's out there who are very intellectual, but most have more abilities in the social part.

The point was this.

AS= intellectuality, logic. Strength in the relationship that can be a way of bonding with partner.

NT= Sociability, emotions. Strength in the relationship that can be a way of bonding with partner.

Partners can put together their abilities in order to move FORWARD (FF).

To compliment in many ways their lives, to help each other in learning to interact better as partners....... And what is best and the aim of many of the ladies who are married to AS hubby's and NT to AS wife, to be able to learn to love each other in the ways each other can develop their own natural skills. Let hose skills be intellectual or social!

That is the point! Theory of mind or not. It is to work with WHAT is there and not WITH what is MISSING!

Sorry I cannot make my point clear enough, but in any case I tired and will continue to try in the relationship I was with others. I will try to aim to understand first before I try to be understood when I am in a personal relationship with someone.

I try to understand others views and I might fail at it, but without "preconceived" intentions.

Without any other intention than to be of help.

BY the way, anyone knows of a natural remedy for muscle and joint pain that can be used on the skin? That is not the muscle rub stuff that is usually used by most people?

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

linda said:

Here is my question? If

it

is a equal relationship in all ways, than WHY is an AS partner

entiltled

to benefits where an NS partner is not to emcompass their differences

and

claim a disabaility? How can U have it both ways? If AS is

just a different culture WHY would anyone claim it as a

disability?

Just

curious.

..

---

This is an issue e and I have stumbled

over.

I know we don't see eye to eye one it.. it's one of the things we've agreed

to

disagree on.

My view is that this "AS partner is entitled to

benefits"

is not the reality but the perception. e on the other hand is a

firm believer in the "I'm NT and I can change, but as an AS he can't, so the

responsibility falls on me" mindset. (She does believe that it takes

two

to make it work though at the same time, and someone who's AS and can't

accept

that or just will not change, is not capable of maintaining a long term

relationship. .. I don't want to speak for her, and I might be misstating

something, so I'll leave it at that).

I believe that the AS person is just as responsible

to change, but that the NT person may not see it as a change. It

can,

of course, work the other way as well.

I believe that if an individual is committed to a

relationship, whether they be AS or NT and whether the partner be AS or NT,

the

same principal applies. If a person wants a relationship to work, it

is

that person's responsibility to educate themselves and put forth the effort

to

make the relationship work. It ought to be explained clearly to the

other

person in a way that they are capable of understanding by several people

both

close to and removed from the situation that the relationship will not last

much

longer if they don't take some interest in maintaining it. Harping on

a

partner who is not interested in maintaining the relationship will make

things

worse, never better, BUT it should be brought up as a reminder every few

months. Eventually the partner who is exerting the effort will

tire

of the foolishness and stop putting quite so much effort and the

relationship

will deteriorate.

It none of the partners business if or how much effort

we

put forth into a relationship. The 50/50 thing as a precise measure of

equal effort misses the point. Each individual is able to give more in

certain areas, and the number of areas will never seem to be

equivalent.

For AS there is a sense of just getting to point of being perceived as

MOSTLY

normal is putting forth effort, yet the NT either doesn't perceive this

baseline

of social effort or feels that it just "doesn't count". Many AS

feel

that it is not worth becoming "someone else" for the sake of having a

serious

relationship, others, like myself, weigh the cost and accept it. I am

a

VERY different person than who I was when we married. What e is

not

capable of understanding is HOW much different I was when I met her from the

way

I was ten years before that. THAT ten years was, for me, a boot

camp

of how to behave in public. When we got married and moved in

together, it was very overwhelming as all my ASness came out at home,

especially

if I was tired.

In the end, I had to learn to accept her in all her

"flawed" NTness (inaccurate, incomplete, and emotional) and after I was able

to

do that, THEN she was able to start accepting me in all my "flawed" ASness

(excessively precise, excessively transparent/open, rigid, and routine

based,

and obsessive).. and even that only with the help of Aspires.

Hope this makes sense..

Usarian

[Guest guest]

ROFL!!! HAHAHAHAHA

IF I HAD SAID ALL NT'S WERE INTELLECTUALLY DISABLED,

YOU

WOULD HAVE SAID I WAS POKING A BEES NEST AGAIN!!!!

From: vcsfrewer@...

Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:54 AM

To: aspires-relationships@ya

hoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Half is NT's solution Half

is

AS ...

In a message dated 1/1/2009 12:04:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, usarianbluebottle

writes:

In the end, I had to learn to accept her in all her "flawed"

NTness

(inaccurate, incomplete, and emotional) and after I was able to do that,

THEN

she was able to start accepting me in all my "flawed" ASness (excessively

precise, excessively transparent/open, rigid, and routine based, and

obsessive).. and even that only with the help of

Aspires.

Usarian,

I hope you had great holidays! :-) And a wonderful New Year

filled with lots of awesome blessings!

About your post above.......

It is so nice to know that there are others out there who think and

feel

like I do, it makes me feel I belong somehow somewhere.

I see us being this way as being differently able, but never

disable!

It would be as ridiculously as to think that:

Just because I tend to be more intellectual than most NT's it

mean to

be Disable in the Social world.

Just because NT's tend to be more Social than most As's it means to be

Disable in the Intellectual world.

In reality it all means that We are differently able and by using

the

assets in a proactive way, we are more prepared to help understand each

other's

cultures or worlds.

I am happy you are an Aspie and that

you are proactive and in Aspires too :-)

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines./

DIV>

[Guest guest]

:Usarian whips out his bee repellent and tosses it to

[Guest guest]

veronica said ( under a bees nest):

Just because I tend to be more intellectual than most NT's...

To which linda responded:

What do U base that on as there are a zillion NT's walking this planet?

me here: there are about 6.5 billion people on the earth, approx i in 150 has an ASD. zillion is a ficticious number

linda said:

Is this an example of lack of therory of mind or are you basing this on the NT's you have come in contact in your life span? Those are fighting words saying you are more intellectual than most NT's.... What do U base this on?

me here:

my take linda?

if i said that i was more intellectual than most nt's i could understand how your inferior mind would misinterpret this as a slur on you and personalise it.

however i would also assume that the word intellectual could be replaced with

"/less emotional"

you said:

Research or just life experience from your perspective? I am not trying to offend, just understand.

Just me.

me here:

do you see my point, or do i miss yours?

Da vid 37 m diagnosed AS an intellectual giant, cant spell that good has bad grammar , forget things and tells bad jokes in public...usually at funerals.

[Guest guest]

........ I caught it!

Thanks.......

.

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

linda said:

Is this an example of lack of therory of mind or are you basing this on the NT's you have come in contact in your life span? Those are fighting words saying you are more intellectual than most NT's.... What do U base this on?

Hello--

This is my perception on the above.

The context in which it was written was absolutely different from what perceived.

I have no intention to "insult" neither to "fight" as there is really NOTHING to fight.

It is also very sad to think that my words be totally turn against me to try to show "how my lack of theory of mind" as she assumes I have, makes me say that I more intellectual than most NT's.

It is thought very surprising to me that anyone could assume that I know all the people on Earth. Yet I understood that the words zillion means a lot of people into the millions and millions.

This is something I try to point out....... Why not try to communicate better by trying to understand the other person's culture or views.

When someone fires up a response that is harsh or "sarcastic" and at times cruel and sad....... It only gets a response of ht same type.

The point is and why this was brought up that there are ways that NT's and AS people can try to communicate better.

My experience is that by learning on the side about 'diversity" I learned that it is far easier to pout me in a situation where I have learned to recognize that I only have a view that can differ form other's and it is alright to not only tolerate but to accept other person's views with respect.

Now, lets move forward and end the misunderstanding by going back to read the original post:

See us being this way as being differently able, but never disable!

It would be as ridiculously as to think that:

Just because I tend to be more intellectual than most NT's it mean to be Disable in the Social world.

Just because NT's tend to be more Social than most As's it means to be Disable in the Intellectual world.

See the word ridiculous emphasize how the statements are just that ridiculous! No one is disable, both are able; but in different ways!

Both have strength, but different strengths.......

It was an example given and what I have said above can be found in many of the book the so called experts write....... In which they also acknowledge that AS mind tends to be more intellectual and that NT minds tend to be more in tune with the social world.

See it also as Man are different able than females in many ways. Woman are different able than males in many ways.

Some birds are able to fly, others are not, but they are still birds.

Anyway, my aim is to find a way to make productive communication possible.

I am interested as I am going to aim for a partner with whom I can better communicate, being that man AS or NT.

I really do not remember expressing herself like this in the past, but then again I have not been active for a very long period of time until a couple of month ago.

In any case, no one is fighting anyone. What will the point be on that one, what will be achieved besides the delay in reaching a pint where once can truly move forward (FF).

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]



me here:

do you see my point, or do i miss yours?

Da vid 37 m diagnosed AS an intellectual giant, cant spell that good has bad grammar , forget things and tells bad jokes in public...usually at funerals.

Hi :

I get your point and thank you. ~L~