world peace, etc

[Guest guest]

Toni says:

>>I see you above the workday world sitting at your

desk dispensing your views on all subjects.<<

--Uh... yes, my computer is on a desk. How did you

guess?

>>Ok, I admit i cannot see you. I accuse you and

others accuse me of having an opinion on every

subject. We are alike in that.<<

--Perhaps not alike in our reaction. I don't think

*everyone* sees me as someone who has an opinion on

every subject. Some people might recognize that I

write more about some subjects than others, and they

might (rightly) suspect that I have more to say about

politics and psychology than, say, Zoroastrianism.

>>As for humorless. I have never heard you not being

absolutely serious about how we should go about

" fixing " the world.<<

--Wow, you mean I save serious topics for a Jung

forum? Who would expect someone to talk about the

topics Jung wrote about on a *Jung* forum? I can see

why you'd be offended.

Is there an attitude you'd like me to take toward

fixing the world, or is it more that you'd like me to

shut up about the world so we can talk about something

you find more interesting to talk about? I'm pretty

sure I'll keep writing whatever I think. Since other

people on this forum talk about " serious " topics,

there's a good chance I'll respond to them seriously.

If you want someone to DO something, ask them. Don't

just criticize people for talking about subjects that

interest them.

>>My feeling is, it got along without us this long.

When we are gone it will get along just fine.<<

--I really don't see it that way. Why do you take that

as a judgment against you? I'm not saying, " Feel

guilty for not doing more to save the planet " . I'm

saying, " This is what I think about when I read the

news. " What's wrong with that, exactly?

>>I never saw your sense of humor, and intellectually

I see you as I see me...relatively normal.<<

--In a chatroom, I'd probably be funnier. Chatrooms

don't get into serious topics as often as email groups

do. Do you get bored reading Jung because he doesn't

make enough jokes?

>>I do know that we do not come from the same place

inside.<<

--You tell me I'm like you (twice) and now I'm unlike

you. I don't really care that much if you're like me

or unlike me, since likeness is relative and I don't

depend on your opinion of me to define me.

>>But I gave up about 50 years ago pontificating about

world peace, and other imponderable subjects.<<

--A lot of people who talked about world peace in the

60's gave up. I wish they hadn't, but I don't judge

them for retreating into jobs and families when they

didn't get enough of a response for their idealism.

What the public talks about does make a difference,

because it changes what media talks about, and it

makes one set of priorities or another dominant in the

collective.

>>The subject of my senior paper in school was " the

basis of a durable peace " . This was May 1950. I have

spent the last 50 years smiling at myself.<<

--What a waste of 50 years! I would have written more

papers, at least.

>>I moved chess pieces so to speak on a chess board,

and made

believe I could move people the same way.That was what

was expected and I did well.<<

--So you're Icarus, trying to warn me before I fly too

close to the sun? I don't think you realize, it's

entirely *effortless* for me to write on email forums.

If peace doesn't happen in the next 50 years, I'll

still be writing whatever I think about it. It's not

like I'm waiting for anyone else to do what I say they

should do. I'm just writing what is on my mind. Some

people like it and write back.

>>By 1954 when I graduated, I decided those were no

chess pieces but human beings who are hard to change,

and I gave up being MASTER OF THE WORLD.<<

--So now you just tell ME what to do, what to write or

not write? How about realizing that a lot of people DO

care about peace, and writing for that audience

instead?

>>We still think we have answers and yet our answers

are

irrelevant and we don't seem to see it.<<

--I don't know if my answers are irrelevant, and I

don't know that the answers you had in 1950 were

irrelevant either. I think you're assuming irrelevance

based on the fact that people don't change all at once

because they read a paper. Why would you expect it to

be that easy, and why would you give up when it isn't?

>>Both you and I should go to the UN for a week and

we would both never speak a word about peace in

the world.<<

-- " We " wouldn't? If I were invited to the UN for a

week, I'd probably think of *something* to say about

it.

>>But I will always maintain that peace starts

within us or it doesn't start at all.<<

--I agree. Where else would it start?

>>We cannot " do " anything but try to change ourselves

and help those in our immediate vicinity. Anything

else is pure hubris, or so i think.<<

--I wouldn't be so quick to label " hubris " . We are

changing ourselves and others all the time, even by

sustaining the status quo. It's all a dynamic system,

and our actions are causes as well as effects.

>>There is nothing about me, today that I have

projected unto you.<<

--That's why you said we are similar, then said we are

different, then talked about how you were once

idealistic and talked about peace. Because you weren't

projecting anything onto me. Got it

>>It has been years since i felt rejected by anyone

who claimed

to be an intellectual.<<

--Glad to hear that. Because it sounded a lot like you

were seeing me as some humorless intellectual who

judged your feeling function, and you were acting as a

judge when you responded to me. Are you sure you

weren't at *some* point hurt by someone who trampled

your feeling function with cold intellect?

>>The ability to laugh at oneself is what living on

this planet is about...after all we do not get

out of it alive.<<

--Jim son agrees with that last bit. I don't

know if laughing at oneself is really what life is all

about. Nothing against it.

>>Do you laugh at yourself, ?<<

--No, never. I'm a robot. You didn't know?

>>And no our logical brain will not give us the

formula for world peace either. We need to change our

hearts first.<<

--You'd be surprised what some people can do with

logical thinking. But I agree about changing hearts.

>>So, I certainly do not mean to insult you, but I

haven't noticed what is to my sense, humor.<<

--Didn't know I was being evaluated as a comedian. I

make a lot more jokes in chatrooms, as opposed to

email forums where people tend to write more in-depth

and serious posts. If you are looking for a good

laugh, I recommend the Daily Show.

>>Just once I would have loved to hear you say I don't

know, I have no answer.<<

--OK. I don't know why you feel the need to change me

or respond to my posts on politics or psychology with

long rants about how I need a sense of humor and

shouldn't be so serious. I was kind of hoping someone

would just respond with some of their own thoughts on

the subjects I wrote about. Is that too much to ask,

really?

>>Sorry, I am not to judge. i hope i am making an

assessment of what I see and experience.<<

--You do come across as judgmental. If it's not

intentional, I accept your apology.

>>Have a great Christmas, and if the end of the world

hasn't come, we can always argue some more for the fun

of it.<<

--Christmas, as in " peace on earth " ?

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