Re: Pierre, Maybe You Can Help

[Guest guest]

I used to have weekly migraines, but after my neph prescribed Zestril

(ace-inhibitor), I have been migraine-free. I haven't read anything

personally about Zestril and migraines, but my mother saw a news

story about the connection. It makes sense in my case. Good luck.

> Hi Teri.

>

> Painkillers when you have kidney disease can be a controversial

subject, and

> sometimes doctors will prescribe a drug while kidney disease is

mild, that

> they wouldn't if it were more advanced.

>

> Now, I'm not a doctor or a healthcare professional of any kind, so,

all I

> can say is that perhaps you should review this with your doctor,

with the

> following thoughts in mind.

>

> Tylenol is generally considered safest of all, and I personally

have often

> been prescribed acetominophen with codeine. I don't think the

codeine causes

> any ill effects in the kidneys, but it is fairly habit-forming.

>

> Some people think that aspirin is Ok, and it may ultimately turn

out that it

> is midly beneficial, but as things stand, I very much doubt that

most nephs,

> if any, would recommend taking aspirin over acetominophen when you

have

> kidney disease.

>

> As far as I know, Fiorinal contains a barbiturate-like sedative,

plus the

> codeine, plus aspirin, plus some caffeine, and it isn't really

intended for

> frequent, long term use. I don't think it is specifically damaging

to the

> kidneys, but, if it were me, I would review that with my

nephrologist

> specifically (not my GP), especially if you are using it for

migraines that

> often, especially since overuse of that drug is sure to produce

rebound

> headaches.

>

> One thing the doctor might consider trying instead is a calcium

channel

> blocker (CCB). Besides lowering blood pressure and, lowering

proteinuria

> (non-dihydropyridine CCBs only, like verapamil in particular),

these drugs

> are sometimes effective in controlling migraines. So it might be

something

> worth considering, since these drugs are used for kidney disease

(including

> IgAN) anyway. I have also heard of some of the beta blockers

(another good

> blood pressure drug) being very effective for migraines in some,

and those

> are also often used in IgAN.

>

> If you're in the unenviable position of having both elevated blood

pressure

> and migraines, you may be able to kill two birds with one stone.

>

> Sorry, but that's about the best I can do. Maybe some other members

also

> have igan and migraines. If so, someone else might have more

information.

>

> Hope that helps.

> Pierre

>

> Pierre, Maybe You Can Help

>

>

> > Pierre,

> >

> > You seem most knowledgable on IgAN and kidneys, I have a question

> > regarding pain medications. I suffer from migraines, and have

for 19

> > years now (since age 9). I never had health insurance as a kid,

so

> > no one ever got me any medication for the pain when I was a child.

> > When I was married at 20, I finally had insurance and went to a

doc

> > for medication for my migraines.

> >

> > So for 8 years now, I've been taking Fiorinal with Codeine for my

> > migraines. I used to only have a few severe ones a year, so

didn't

> > take that much of the drug. Now I'm having them at least 5-10

times

> > a month, sometimes with stretches of every day migraines. Am I

> > damaging my kidneys further by taking so much of this

medication? I

> > wasn't sure how codeine reacts with the kidneys.

> >

> > The docs won't give me any migraine preventatives (Midrin, Vioxx,

> > Maxalt, Imitrex, etc.) because they can all raise the blood

pressure,

> > so I'm pretty much stuck with the Fiorinal or sometimes Vicodin.

> >

> > Just curious about the effects of painkillers on the kidneys.

Thanks.

> >

> > Teri

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Teri.

Painkillers when you have kidney disease can be a controversial subject, and

sometimes doctors will prescribe a drug while kidney disease is mild, that

they wouldn't if it were more advanced.

Now, I'm not a doctor or a healthcare professional of any kind, so, all I

can say is that perhaps you should review this with your doctor, with the

following thoughts in mind.

Tylenol is generally considered safest of all, and I personally have often

been prescribed acetominophen with codeine. I don't think the codeine causes

any ill effects in the kidneys, but it is fairly habit-forming.

Some people think that aspirin is Ok, and it may ultimately turn out that it

is midly beneficial, but as things stand, I very much doubt that most nephs,

if any, would recommend taking aspirin over acetominophen when you have

kidney disease.

As far as I know, Fiorinal contains a barbiturate-like sedative, plus the

codeine, plus aspirin, plus some caffeine, and it isn't really intended for

frequent, long term use. I don't think it is specifically damaging to the

kidneys, but, if it were me, I would review that with my nephrologist

specifically (not my GP), especially if you are using it for migraines that

often, especially since overuse of that drug is sure to produce rebound

headaches.

One thing the doctor might consider trying instead is a calcium channel

blocker (CCB). Besides lowering blood pressure and, lowering proteinuria

(non-dihydropyridine CCBs only, like verapamil in particular), these drugs

are sometimes effective in controlling migraines. So it might be something

worth considering, since these drugs are used for kidney disease (including

IgAN) anyway. I have also heard of some of the beta blockers (another good

blood pressure drug) being very effective for migraines in some, and those

are also often used in IgAN.

If you're in the unenviable position of having both elevated blood pressure

and migraines, you may be able to kill two birds with one stone.

Sorry, but that's about the best I can do. Maybe some other members also

have igan and migraines. If so, someone else might have more information.

Hope that helps.

Pierre

Pierre, Maybe You Can Help

> Pierre,

>

> You seem most knowledgable on IgAN and kidneys, I have a question

> regarding pain medications. I suffer from migraines, and have for 19

> years now (since age 9). I never had health insurance as a kid, so

> no one ever got me any medication for the pain when I was a child.

> When I was married at 20, I finally had insurance and went to a doc

> for medication for my migraines.

>

> So for 8 years now, I've been taking Fiorinal with Codeine for my

> migraines. I used to only have a few severe ones a year, so didn't

> take that much of the drug. Now I'm having them at least 5-10 times

> a month, sometimes with stretches of every day migraines. Am I

> damaging my kidneys further by taking so much of this medication? I

> wasn't sure how codeine reacts with the kidneys.

>

> The docs won't give me any migraine preventatives (Midrin, Vioxx,

> Maxalt, Imitrex, etc.) because they can all raise the blood pressure,

> so I'm pretty much stuck with the Fiorinal or sometimes Vicodin.

>

> Just curious about the effects of painkillers on the kidneys. Thanks.

>

> Teri

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your help and information Pierre. I am currently taking

480mg daily of Verapamil (supposed to help with migraines, not

working here) and 160mg daily of Diovan for my high blood pressure.

I'm not sure which category these drugs are in, I always forget and

get them mixed up. But I know I've read the Verapamil is supposed to

help with migraines, and I've had no relief at all.

I also know that the Fiorinal causes rebounds. This latest round of

migraines started after a trip to Las Vegas, being surrounded by

cigarette smoke 24 hours a day (I'm very allergic). When my nose

starts up, I always get migraines. Anyway, having to take so much of

the Fiorinal of course caused rebounds, so the doc gave me some

Vicodin. But that didn't help either. Go figure.

I'm going back to my GP on Monday to speak with him about the

migraines. But most drugs I've researched for preventatives say " not

for patients with high BP or kidney disease " . Lucky me LOL

I might have to just suffer through the rebounds for awhile and get

off the Fiorinal. Then it'll start working again.

Teri

[Guest guest]

I've been on the Verapamil for about 4 years now, the Diovan for

about 3. I had a period a year after I was diagnosed with IGAN that

they could NOT get my BP under control. I think I tried a BP med

from every category, several at a time. I lost 45 lbs. in 3 months

and had tachycardia several times, sending me to the ER. I do

remember one of the drugs that didn't work was Propanolol.

They finally got the Verapamil/Diovan mixture to work, so I've been

on that for years. But alas, the migraine-preventative effects of

Verapamil have been lost on me.

It's funny, I've had migraines since age 9, but used to get them only

a few times a year, although they were very severe then. Now I get

them at least 5 times a month, more moderate. I'm wondering if the

Depo Provera shot has anything to do with the morbid increase in

frequency. I've read evil things lately about that shot.

Lucky for me, I got my last shot in March, and will never get one

again. I had my tubes tied 2 weeks ago. The shot should be out of

my system in June, so I'll start tracking after that the frequency of

my migraines.

Thanks again for your help.