Re: potatoes

[Guest guest]

So, the way to bring down the bliss (I haven't tried this yet and I shut down the k quite a few years ago now although it sometimes appears of its own for a few moments). I am sure you remember this because you gave the idea to hold a potato. (Please don't be upset this is not in any way meant to offend) but I swear I thought, 'she's kidding right? A potato?' Intuitively this was right! Not quite but sure gave the hint which I was oblivious to. (I do want to know why the Tibetans didn't think of this.)

The Tibetans don't have any. I think they use a stone...? Grounding with comfort.

The potato is symbolic of the most 'individuated' tuber. All of a white inside, disguised by dull exterior n eyes evwhere! Somehow they have a calming effect.

We need prob to get back to Jung lest peop think this list is totally off the wall!

There is so much suffering in the world right now, it feels like hell is spread upon the earth.

i keep remembering my Teacher saying it can only be healed 1x1x1x1.

Mebbe we shld ask ourselves ev night if we have helped, loved, served only one other person this day? Here is a pryr I treasure. Found it 40 yrs ago.

Lord, let me touch another for Thee this day

and every one I touch

do Thou by Thy Holy Spirit quicken

whether by the words I speak

the words I write

the prayer I breathe

or the life I lead. Amen

anonymous

I say this ev morning. It reminds me it is never what any one says but what the other person hears that counts!! Hence the wise request of Sophia to quicken, Old Eng for give Life to, as in the 'quick and lively word'.........I think I have confessed that after teaching kids for 18 yrs, I decided I had not taught them anything but I did engineer situations for attacks of insight! Ahas! The real meaning of education is ex ducare, to lead forth out of the student. The rest is in-struction, providing the lattice framework of any discipline for the creative spirit to grow and flourish on.

I think so fondly of a 9th grade boy who missed the class on the concept of the coll unc, so on a test he handed in the following:

"The collective unconscious is when a whole bunch of people don't know nothing and don't know why they don't." !

Ill buy that.

much love

ao

[Guest guest]

All,

Alice said:"We need prob to get back to Jung lest peop think this list is totally off the wall!

I am happy to oblige since you all lost me some time back....I knew if I hung on long enough we would eventually remember Jung

I offer this from "Modern man in Search of a Soul" page 112 and 113.It has always intrigued me:

" Do we understand what we think?

We only understand the thinking which is a mere equation and from which nothing comes out but that which we have put in. That is the working of the intellect. But beyond that is a thinking in primordial images. ..In symbols which are older than historical man;which have been ingrained in him from earliest times, and still make up the groundwork of the human psyche. It is only possible to live the fullest life when we are in harmony with these symbols;wisdom is a return to them. It is neither a question of belief nor of knowledge, but of the agreement of our thinking with primordial images of the unconscious. They are the source of all conscious thought.

Science and these symbols are commensurable. They are indispensable conditions of the imagination,they are primary data- the materials whose expediency to exist science cannot deny offhand."

Nothing influences our conduct less than do intellectual ideas. But when an idea is the expression of psychic experience which bears fruit in regions as far separated, and as free from historical relation of east and West, then we must look into the matter closely. For such ideas represent forces that are beyond logical justification and moral justification; they are always stronger than man and his brain. Man believes indeed that he molds them, these ideas, but in reality they make man their unwitting mouthpiece."

and just to throw in a like quote, at least to me:

"Without images you could not even speak of divine experience. A matter of ineffable experience, the image is indispensable. G-d and the G-dhead, both in themselves are beyond man's reach. To us they are revealed as psychic images..ie..symbols."

Also from book cited. can't remember page number as I forgot to put it in my journal.

And yes, Alice I know I am a feeling type,( as you reminded me in a post not too long ago) but one can hardly accuse me of not thinking...intellectually and otherwise.

And I add from CW11 "The needful thing is not to know the truth but to experience it. Not to have an intellectual conception of things but to find our way to the inner and perhaps irrational experience. That is the great problem.

It is my opinion that all of us often forget this and believe our thoughts. I close with a favorite quote from Emerson:'Observed, Do you love me? actually means "do you see the same truth or at least, as C.S. observed, do you love care about the same truth?"

for what its worth?

Toni

Re: potatoes

So, the way to bring down the bliss (I haven't tried this yet and I shut down the k quite a few years ago now although it sometimes appears of its own for a few moments). I am sure you remember this because you gave the idea to hold a potato. (Please don't be upset this is not in any way meant to offend) but I swear I thought, 'she's kidding right? A potato?' Intuitively this was right! Not quite but sure gave the hint which I was oblivious to. (I do want to know why the Tibetans didn't think of this.)

The Tibetans don't have any. I think they use a stone...? Grounding with comfort.

The potato is symbolic of the most 'individuated' tuber. All of a white inside, disguised by dull exterior n eyes evwhere! Somehow they have a calming effect.

We need prob to get back to Jung lest peop think this list is totally off the wall!

There is so much suffering in the world right now, it feels like hell is spread upon the earth.

i keep remembering my Teacher saying it can only be healed 1x1x1x1.

Mebbe we shld ask ourselves ev night if we have helped, loved, served only one other person this day? Here is a pryr I treasure. Found it 40 yrs ago.

Lord, let me touch another for Thee this day

and every one I touch

do Thou by Thy Holy Spirit quicken

whether by the words I speak

the words I write

the prayer I breathe

or the life I lead. Amen

anonymous

I say this ev morning. It reminds me it is never what any one says but what the other person hears that counts!! Hence the wise request of Sophia to quicken, Old Eng for give Life to, as in the 'quick and lively word'.........I think I have confessed that after teaching kids for 18 yrs, I decided I had not taught them anything but I did engineer situations for attacks of insight! Ahas! The real meaning of education is ex ducare, to lead forth out of the student. The rest is in-struction, providing the lattice framework of any discipline for the creative spirit to grow and flourish on.

I think so fondly of a 9th grade boy who missed the class on the concept of the coll unc, so on a test he handed in the following:

"The collective unconscious is when a whole bunch of people don't know nothing and don't know why they don't." !

Ill buy that.

much love

ao

[Guest guest]

>

> All,

> Alice said: " We need prob to get back to Jung lest peop think this

list is totally off the wall!

>

> I am happy to oblige since you all lost me some time back....I knew

if I hung on long enough we would eventually remember Jung

>

> I offer this from " Modern man in Search of a Soul " page 112 and

113.It has always intrigued me:

>

> " Do we understand what we think?

> We only understand the thinking which is a mere equation and from

which nothing comes out but that which we have put in. That is the

working of the intellect. But beyond that is a thinking in primordial

images. ..In symbols which are older than historical man;which have

been ingrained in him from earliest times, and still make up the

groundwork of the human psyche. It is only possible to live the

fullest life when we are in harmony with these symbols;wisdom is a

return to them. It is neither a question of belief nor of knowledge,

but of the agreement of our thinking with primordial images of the

unconscious. They are the source of all conscious thought.

> Science and these symbols are commensurable. They are indispensable

conditions of the imagination,they are primary data- the materials

whose expediency to exist science cannot deny offhand. "

>

Translated slightly differently in the Collected Works:

Do we ever understand what we think? We only understand the

thinking which is a mere equation, from which nothing comes out but

that which we have put in. That is the working of the intellect. But

besides that there is a thinking in primordial images, in symbols

which are older than the historical man, which are inborn in him from

earliest times, and, eternally living, outlasting all generations,

still make up the groundwork of the human psyche. It is only possible

to live the fullest life when we are in harmony with these symbols;

wisdom is a return to them. It is a question neither of belief nor of

knowledge, but of the agreement of our thinking with primordial images

of the unconscious. They are the unthinkable matrices of all our

thoughts, no matter what our conscious mind may cogitate. One of these

primordial thoughts is the idea of life after death. Science and these

primordial images are incommensurables. They are irrational data, a

priori conditions of the imagination, which are simply there, and

whose purpose and justification science can only investigate a

posteriori, much as it investigates a function like that of the

thyroid gland. Before the nineteenth century the thyroid was regarded

as a meaningless organ merely because it was not understood. It would

be equally shortsighted of us today to call the primordial images

senseless.

The Stages of Life (1931), CW 8: Para. 794, pg. 402-403

> Nothing influences our conduct less than do intellectual ideas.

>But when an idea is the expression of psychic experience which

>bears fruit in regions as far separated, and as free from historical

>relation of east and West, then we must look into the matter closely.

>For such ideas represent forces that are beyond logical justification

>and moral justification; they are always stronger than man and his

>brain. Man believes indeed that he molds them, these ideas, but in

>reality they make man their unwitting mouthpiece. "

This is translated much differently in the CW from the 1930s

translation. It was difficult to find.

Nothing, it is true, is less effective than an intellectual idea. But

when an idea is a psychic fact that crops up in two such totally

different fields as psychology and physics, apparently without

historical connection, then we must give it our closest attention. For

ideas of this kind represent forces which are logically and morally

unassailable; they are always stronger than man and his brain. He

fancies that he makes these ideas, but in rreality they make him --

and make him their unwitting mouthpiece.

Problems of Modern Psychotherapy (1929), CW 16, para. 147, pg. 65

The context is important here. In the previous paragraph he was

talking about Freud's psychoanalytic method introducing a

'philosophical relativity' comparable to that introduced by Einstein

into physics.

> and just to throw in a like quote, at least to me:

>

> " Without images you could not even speak of divine experience. A

matter of ineffable experience, the image is indispensable. G-d and

the G-dhead, both in themselves are beyond man's reach. To us they are

revealed as psychic images..ie..symbols. "

>

> Also from book cited. can't remember page number as I forgot to put

it in my journal.

>

Could not locate this even by going to the listing for 'Godhead' in

the index to the Collected Works. Are you sure it's not a paraphrase?

>

> And I add from CW11 " The needful thing is not to know the truth but

to experience it. Not to have an intellectual conception of things but

to find our way to the inner and perhaps irrational experience. That

is the great problem.

>

Have not found this yet, either.