Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Wow, you are very lucky to be there. I was hoping to catch Stan in New York state this fall at the Omega Institute, but I will not be able to make it.I am currently in the middle of Cosmos and Psyche, and it is fantastic. In two weeks I will be going to one of Stan's workshop creations called holotropic breathwork and it should be great. This will by my third workshop. Very conciousness raising, and the compassion felt there is totally unparrelled. Do any of you have recomendations on how to cast my first chart? Very interested to see what comes up. Near the boston area?Eve, How can an individual re-enact an archetype nobly? Any one can answer this, quite interested to see what people have to say about it. - Joe p.s. I would like to thank you all for sharing this wealth of information, it has been a great learning experience, and continues to be daily.On 6/6/06, Eve Neuhaus wrote: Yesterday was the first day of the class I'm taking with Rick Tarnas and Stan Grof, " Cosmos and Psyche; Archetypal Astrology and Transpersonal Psychology, " and I think it's going to be a terrific experience! I passed on your greetings, Alice, and both of them seemed so pleased to hear from you. Rick mentioned that he'd been in correspondence with you recently. Rick started right off with Jung and synchronicity. Imagine my surprise when, in the midst of that talk, I glanced around at the group of students and saw , one of our three employees at the chocolate business! He lives up here in the Bay area, but I had no idea he would be taking the same class as I am! Rick quoted Jung, " Synchronicities are a defeat for the ego, a victory for the Self. " Later Rick and Stan gently argued about the outcome of Rick's idea that what the whole human species is currently going through is a mass initiatory experience, a death/rebirth experience. Stan wondered if the baby would be born alive and if the mother would survive. Rick agreed that positive results aren't guaranteed. It is up to us how we reenact the archetypes, nobly or ignobly. Does the individual know that he or she is the makeweight that determines which way the drama goes? The rest of the afternoon was devoted to a discussion on how astrology has been influenced by depth psychology and how psychology can be illuminated by knowledge of astrology. Grof introduced is work on holotropic states and the influence of birth trauma and will spend today unpacking that. The reading list includes Tarnas's Cosmos and Psyche, Grof's Psychology of the Future, Hand's Horoscope Symbols, and a current ephemeris. It's a full semester's course given in the afternoons for ten days. It seems like it'll be a pretty intense experience. I feel incredibly lucky to be there! Eve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 >Eve, thanks so much for sharing this ( & please continue to do so)! I've long been a fan of Grof-tho personally not so sure re his perinatal notions, except perhaps in a bit of a synchronistic sense. Of course, Tibetan Buddhism seems to put alot of stock in the death/dying experience as a determining factor-so who knows? Don't know much re Tarnas. Even if I was not too strapped for $ to take the course, too far to commute from Kansas earl > Yesterday was the first day of the class I'm taking with Rick Tarnas > and Stan Grof, " Cosmos and Psyche; Archetypal Astrology and > Transpersonal Psychology, " and I think it's going to be a terrific > experience! > > I passed on your greetings, Alice, and both of them seemed so pleased > to hear from you. Rick mentioned that he'd been in correspondence > with you recently. > > Rick started right off with Jung and synchronicity. Imagine my > surprise when, in the midst of that talk, I glanced around at the > group of students and saw , one of our three employees at the > chocolate business! He lives up here in the Bay area, but I had no > idea he would be taking the same class as I am! Rick quoted Jung, > " Synchronicities are a defeat for the ego, a victory for the Self. " > > Later Rick and Stan gently argued about the outcome of Rick's idea > that what the whole human species is currently going through is a > mass initiatory experience, a death/rebirth experience. Stan wondered > if the baby would be born alive and if the mother would survive. Rick > agreed that positive results aren't guaranteed. It is up to us how we > reenact the archetypes, nobly or ignobly. Does the individual know > that he or she is the makeweight that determines which way the drama > goes? > > The rest of the afternoon was devoted to a discussion on how > astrology has been influenced by depth psychology and how psychology > can be illuminated by knowledge of astrology. Grof introduced is work > on holotropic states and the influence of birth trauma and will spend > today unpacking that. > > The reading list includes Tarnas's Cosmos and Psyche, Grof's > Psychology of the Future, Hand's Horoscope Symbols, and a > current ephemeris. It's a full semester's course given in the > afternoons for ten days. It seems like it'll be a pretty intense > experience. I feel incredibly lucky to be there! > > Eve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 How can an individual re-enact an archetype nobly? I suppose that if you are called to be a hero, then when the hour to stand up comes, one has enough self-knowledge of their character to summon enough courage to stand up and face the challenges that one is called to confront. If a person wants to preform on the grand stage of life, they have to know their character, and not to mention their lines. We all know that at the end of the play the good characters triumph over the antagonists, unless the good characters loses his/her identity in the play, and never fully actualizes. In the new testament, tells the church not to sin any more because they have to live up to the standard of Jesus, because they are now Christ re-born, who exhibits the personality of the integral Self. An innovative genius could easily fall short of his/her purpose over a small personality complex, and turn into a "mad scientist". A villan is just a hero who hasn't directed his/her talents to fulfill the purpose of his/her calling. A person who is born into a crack house was designed to break the cycle and curse of crack, but may easily get addicted to the drug, if he/she does not know his/herself. The wounded healer will never heal if he/she does not realize his/her place in the universe. Nobly re-enacting an archetype is looking past the ego, and seeing how we're not just individual entities, but part of a big dramma of God, and each personality re-birthed has certain duties and destinies. If all the hero's of our time fail, this age will be marked by it, because of our actions. Love, Vince ph wrote: Wow, you are very lucky to be there. I was hoping to catch Stan in New York state this fall at the Omega Institute, but I will not be able to make it.I am currently in the middle of Cosmos and Psyche, and it is fantastic. In two weeks I will be going to one of Stan's workshop creations called holotropic breathwork and it should be great. This will by my third workshop. Very conciousness raising, and the compassion felt there is totally unparrelled. Do any of you have recomendations on how to cast my first chart? Very interested to see what comes up. Near the boston area?Eve, How can an individual re-enact an archetype nobly? Any one can answer this, quite interested to see what people have to say about it. - Joe p.s. I would like to thank you all for sharing this wealth of information, it has been a great learning experience, and continues to be daily. Yesterday was the first day of the class I'm taking with Rick Tarnas and Stan Grof, "Cosmos and Psyche; Archetypal Astrology and Transpersonal Psychology, " and I think it's going to be a terrific experience!I passed on your greetings, Alice, and both of them seemed so pleased to hear from you. Rick mentioned that he'd been in correspondence with you recently.Rick started right off with Jung and synchronicity. Imagine my surprise when, in the midst of that talk, I glanced around at the group of students and saw , one of our three employees at the chocolate business! He lives up here in the Bay area, but I had no idea he would be taking the same class as I am! Rick quoted Jung, "Synchronicities are a defeat for the ego, a victory for the Self."Later Rick and Stan gently argued about the outcome of Rick's idea that what the whole human species is currently going through is a mass initiatory experience, a death/rebirth experience. Stan wondered if the baby would be born alive and if the mother would survive. Rick agreed that positive results aren't guaranteed. It is up to us how we reenact the archetypes, nobly or ignobly. Does the individual know that he or she is the makeweight that determines which way the drama goes?The rest of the afternoon was devoted to a discussion on how astrology has been influenced by depth psychology and how psychology can be illuminated by knowledge of astrology. Grof introduced is work on holotropic states and the influence of birth trauma and will spend today unpacking that.The reading list includes Tarnas's Cosmos and Psyche, Grof's Psychology of the Future, Hand's Horoscope Symbols, and a current ephemeris. It's a full semester's course given in the afternoons for ten days. It seems like it'll be a pretty intense experience. I feel incredibly lucky to be there!Eve __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 It is tough to be certain of the psych impact of experiences early in life. Maybe some one has clinical proof? Either way certainty is difficult.I tend to lean towards early childhood and pre natal experiences having an impact on a persons life. It is tough for me to imagine that humans could be a blank slate for very long if at all. Love,-Joe On 6/6/06, earl mcgee < cyndiandearl@...> wrote: >Eve, thanks so much for sharing this ( & please continue to do so)! I've long been a fan of Grof-tho personally not so sure re his perinatal notions, except perhaps in a bit of a synchronistic sense. Of course, Tibetan Buddhism seems to put alot of stock in the death/dying experience as a determining factor-so who knows? Don't know much re Tarnas. Even if I was not too strapped for $ to take the course, too far to commute from Kansas earl > Yesterday was the first day of the class I'm taking with Rick Tarnas > and Stan Grof, " Cosmos and Psyche; Archetypal Astrology and > Transpersonal Psychology, " and I think it's going to be a terrific > experience! > > I passed on your greetings, Alice, and both of them seemed so pleased > to hear from you. Rick mentioned that he'd been in correspondence > with you recently. > > Rick started right off with Jung and synchronicity. Imagine my > surprise when, in the midst of that talk, I glanced around at the > group of students and saw , one of our three employees at the > chocolate business! He lives up here in the Bay area, but I had no > idea he would be taking the same class as I am! Rick quoted Jung, > " Synchronicities are a defeat for the ego, a victory for the Self. " > > Later Rick and Stan gently argued about the outcome of Rick's idea > that what the whole human species is currently going through is a > mass initiatory experience, a death/rebirth experience. Stan wondered > if the baby would be born alive and if the mother would survive. Rick > agreed that positive results aren't guaranteed. It is up to us how we > reenact the archetypes, nobly or ignobly. Does the individual know > that he or she is the makeweight that determines which way the drama > goes? > > The rest of the afternoon was devoted to a discussion on how > astrology has been influenced by depth psychology and how psychology > can be illuminated by knowledge of astrology. Grof introduced is work > on holotropic states and the influence of birth trauma and will spend > today unpacking that. > > The reading list includes Tarnas's Cosmos and Psyche, Grof's > Psychology of the Future, Hand's Horoscope Symbols, and a > current ephemeris. It's a full semester's course given in the > afternoons for ten days. It seems like it'll be a pretty intense > experience. I feel incredibly lucky to be there! > > Eve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today was an all-Grof day. He argued very convincingly for the importance of both perinatal experiences ("The denial of the possibility of birth memory based on the fact that the cerebral cortex of the newborn is not fully myelinized is particularly absurd considering that the capacity for memory exists in many lower life forms that do not have a cerebral cortex at all. And it is well known that certain primitive forms of protoplasmic memory exist even unicellular organisms. Such blatant logical contradiction appearing in the context of rigorous scientific thinking is certainly surprising and is very likely the result of a profound emotional repression to which the memory of birth is subjected." Grof, Psychology of the Future, 31) and showed us slides of pictures and paintings people had drawn of their experiences during the re-birthing process.He divides the perinatal experience into four parts (matrixes) and lists associations one may have with each stage: first the oroboric, good (or bad) womb, then the change to a environment that wants you out of there, constriction, entrapment; then the passage down the birth canal, struggles, fights, the border between life and death; and finally the enormous decompression and explosion of light that is birth. Because they are so primal, Grof thinks that these four experiences color our entire perception. The pictures he showed us did span the range of the human drama - from incredibly dark to incredibly light.For the past 50 years, Grof's research has centered on what he calls holotropic experiences, non-ordinary states of consciousness that lead to wholeness. He talked about his research and history with LSD and holotropic breath work in various experimental settings, which was particularly interesting to me in light of my own experiences with Ganesh Baba who used a combination of psychedelics, pranayama, and posture, to induce high states of consciousness. He is still convinced that used properly, LSD and other psychedelics can be transformative.He concludes that psychology is lacking in two areas: it misses the significance of both the perinatal and the transpersonal experience. Tomorrow it's back to astrology with Rick Tarnas.EveI tend to lean towards early childhood and pre natal experiences having an impact on a persons life. It is tough for me to imagine that humans could be a blank slate for very long if at all. Earl Magee wrote:I've long been a fan of Grof-tho personally not so sure re his perinatal notions, except perhaps in a bit of a synchronistic sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Hi Eve, Just wanted to thank you for posting these "reviews" of your experiences, etc. It's great. Blissings, Sam Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper StickerMany of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi Choose your illusion carefully. ~ UnknownWho looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. JungJust because I believe something doesn't mean it's true; just because I don't believe something doesn't mean it's untrue. ~ Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Dear Eve, Your sharing of your learning from two of the greats in this field is much appreciated indeed. I feel like I am right there in class with you. Thanks for caring enough about us to make it available to us as well. It's almost like being there! Greg _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ooh, it's nice to have my summaries appreciated! it's useful for me to write them too. Thanks, Sam, Greg and others.Yesterday began with a Q & A session with Stan. He told some funny stories about his interactions with Carl Sagan, who disliked astrology and transpersonal psychology with an unusual passion. I particularly enjoyed the stories because I lived in Ithaca and taught Sagan's kids for a while. Most of the questions related to Stan's work, however, One memorable quote came from Rick, who was adding to Stan's replies: "Often the most healing experience lacks the executive function entirely; the thing we are most afraid of is the eye of the needle, the exact place we want to go."Rick began his section of the talk with an explanation of Stan's concept of coex systems, a layering of biographical material with similar emotional content. The difference between Jung's idea of complexes, which are also archetypally linked, and coex systems is that coex systems link up to at least one of the four matrices of the birth experience. Jung didn't believe the biological birth experience was important.Grof's advice to Tarnas when Tarnas was working at the Haight drug clinic helping young people through bad LSD trips: "The full experience of an emotion is the funeral pyre of that emotion."The second half of the day was devoted to Tarnas's history of astrology and thoughts on how it works. I liked the analogy to the clock best. A clock doesn't cause time, but we can look at it to see the time, just as the planets don't cause things to happen, but we can look at the chart to see the astrology.EveJust wanted to thank you for posting these "reviews" of your experiences, etc. It's great. "The hardest thing in life to learn is which bridge to cross and which to burn." - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Dear Eve, " A clock doesn't cause time, but we can look at it to see the time, just as the planets don't cause things to happen, but we can look at the chart to see the astrology. " Wonderful analogy! I wonder how much heat Tarnas is receiving from academia for his ideas linking back to astrology. Has he mentioned this? It seems inevitable. Thanks again for all your updates. Much appreciated indeed! Greg _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 That is how grof got hooked on astrology Nick, give my love to Stan n Rick! As a matter of fact, I think I was one of the first to do Stan's chart - at Wainwright House in the 70's later I co-lectured w/him n later got invited to speak at the ITA Confs in Bombay n Davos. I met Rick wh I was teaching at Esalen n I think the world of his bk COSMOS AND PSYCHE! So, enjoy the course. The topic of my most recent bk was wh I lect on at the ITA; Image: The Heavens Declnew book Declare Cheerio! love ao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 At 18:53 06/06/2006, you wrote: Even if I was not too strapped for $ to take the course, too far to commute from Kansas earl > Yesterday was the first day of the class I'm taking with Rick Tarnas > and Stan Grof, " Cosmos and Psyche; Archetypal Astrology and > Transpersonal Psychology, " and I think it's going to be a terrific > experience! Good to hear about this My ex knows Rick and Stan well. She is an astrologer and psychoanalyst She introduced me to rick's book and this new astrological philosophy cheers Nick Owen web site http://www.trans-itions.co.uk also to be found at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wychwood/ or http://www.flickr.com/groups/poetryandpicturesinternational/ Why not browse my book of fairy tales: Telling It Like It Is. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0954739000/qid%3D1114526130/sr%3D1-6/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F8%5F6/202-1414987-5523065 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 At 06:25 07/06/2006, you wrote: He talked about his research and history with LSD and holotropic breath work in various experimental settings, which was particularly interesting to me in light of my own experiences with Ganesh Baba who used a combination of psychedelics, pranayama, and posture, to induce high states of consciousness. He is still convinced that used properly, LSD and other psychedelics can be transformative. I saw him talk in London and read his book on varieties of pschedelic therapy Stan preferred the heavy immersion (very high dose) breakthrough version, till LSD was banned He wanted to avoid bad trips and tried every psychological test to predict if this was likely the only thing that worked was astrology. progressions and transits predict your trip. That is how grof got hooked on astrology cheers Nick Owen web site http://www.trans-itions.co.uk also to be found at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wychwood/ or http://www.flickr.com/groups/poetryandpicturesinternational/ Why not browse my book of fairy tales: Telling It Like It Is. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0954739000/qid%3D1114526130/sr%3D1-6/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F8%5F6/202-1414987-5523065 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Hi Nick, Thanks for sharing!How did you find this out about Grof and Astrology? I hear Alice had some interaction with him when he was a 'pup'. I'd like to check out this part of his work. Beyond the Brain? Regards,Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 At 23:42 13/10/2006, you wrote: How did you find this out about Grof and Astrology? Suzi Harvey introduced me to his lectures cheers Nick Nick Owen web site http://www.trans-itions.co.uk also to be found at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wychwood/ or http://www.flickr.com/groups/poetryandpicturesinternational/ Why not browse my book of fairy tales: Telling It Like It Is. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0954739000/qid%3D1114526130/sr%3D1-6/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F8%5F6/202-1414987-5523065 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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