thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph,

I think these were the names of the people invloved

C. Rowe, MD

F. Barron, MS

Hugh Calkins, MD

Irene H. Maumenee, MD

Y. Tong, MD, PhD

T. Geraghty, MB, MRCPI

I'll send you the files Jill gave me, off list. Jill is a treasure-house

of information!

>I was put on florinef to help keep my blood pressure up.<

How did this work for you? Kate may be going on somthing for this soon and

I'm trying to learn all I can.

How well did you funtion before going on the florinef? Kate has trouble

just making it to the kitchen without falling over some days but it seems

eratic.

Take care,

Jean

[Guest guest]

>I think these were the names of the people invloved

These are the ones who wrote the article published in issue 2 of EDS Today.

-Barb

[Guest guest]

Steph,

> Thanks everyone for the advice and support. Because of my job (I train

> assistance dogs for people with physical disabilities - how ironic:)) I

don't

I recently adopted a puppy which we plan to train as my service dog. Any

recommendations you can give would be appreciated.

> Also, I had surgery for Arnold Chiari Malformation (compression of

> the brain), and in that surgery they removed part of my skull. That has

I remember reading about that awhile back. Glad they figured it out. The

case I read about took a long time and many doctors before it was diagnosed.

> Which doctor at Hopkins did a study on the venous pooling? Was it Rowe?

EDS Today printed an article by Rowe and others about EDS, CFS, and

Orthostatic Intolerance. Venous pooling was suggested as a possible factor.

-Barb

Hypermobile EDS

Seattle, WA

Editor, EDS Today

http://www.uggen.net/edstoday/

[Guest guest]

Hey there Mark,

I just wanted to say that I don't skim past your posts and please don't

stop writing. Its not " abusing the privilege " it's clearing the garbage out

and it's part of why we are all here.

I may not have any advice for you and feel that my words of comfort won't

help but you should know I care and listen so don't stop sharing whenever

you need to.

I hope you find some supportive folks soon. I know what it is like to be

isolated and overwhelmed. I have been trying to get help/support for Kate

and as hard as it is it must be even harder for an adult. Can you get to a

library or have they a shut-in service? I just found a section in our

library that has books about living with disabilites and some of them focus

on building a support system, how to get existing groups or organizations

to help. I haven't had a chance to read them yet and they are canadian

based but there must be something similar there.

Take care,

Jean

----------

| From: MTLamar@...

| To: ceda

| Subject: Thanks

| Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:03 AM

|

| Thank you for your patience. I realize that by now, probably most of

| you skim past me; like doctors, y'all are only really seeing me at my

| worst. But I am grateful for your being there, particularly these

| past

| few months.

|

| I have been coming to some rather unpleasant conclusions. First is, I

| am in this fight alone. I know all of you will protest this, but I'm

| not talking about companionship here. I'm talking about the

| day-to-day

| reality of life. No one is going to help when I can't get through the

| grocery store, no one is going to make my day easier, and it's going

| to be easier on me to just face that, rather than being disappointed

| each day.

|

| Second is, I truly am disabled. I need to accept the loss of my

| previous existence and move on. There are things I will never be able

| to do again, and I must figure out which of these were important to

| my life and adjust or replace them.

|

| Third, life is a series of experiences which tend to isolate me. With

| each new medical discovery in myself, I'm removed a bit more from the

| world and, in fact, even most of you. I'd always expected that a

| lifetime would bring less separateness and more dependence. Instead,

| the circumstances I've faced have pretty much caused the opposite,

| separating me from my family and all the circles of friends.

|

| I've begun to learn what society expects from this new me, the role

| I'm expected to fill. It's not that much different from the

| pathological version of me: awareness that I'm in the way of pretty

| much everyone in some fashion, an obstacle to their having a perfect

| day, which is reflected in the brushoffs and rudenesses that point

| out

| life isn't for the weak or meek like me, and my choosing not to argue

| the issue.

|

| Thanks. Since I can't afford therapy on my own, this is the closest I

| can get at the moment, and it's nice of you to allow me the space.

| I'm probably abusing the privilege, but thanks.

|

| Love, Mark

|

|

|

|

[Guest guest]

Another question, what does it feel like while your hooked up to the machine. Also, what about the treatment through your stomach ( I think that is what I read)?

OK - I'll take the second question first. The treatment through your stomach is indeed through your stomach - CAPD stands for Continuous Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis because the peritoneum (the membrane keeping your stomach separate from your kidneys, lungs and the rest of your body) is the membrane used to dialyze you. You hook up a bag - it looks like an extra-large IV bag - to a tube in your abdomen (actually, the tube is between your peritoneum and the skin covering your abdomen) which has a little port leading to the outside. You have to "spike" the bag with a little plastic tube with a needle-like plastic contraption at the bag end (this end can come with a UV light to help cut down the risk of peritonitis by helping to sterilize the thing you spike the bag with) , and the other end of that tube goes in the end of the abdominal tube. Then the fluid runs into the abdomen and stays there while you do your normal thing (which is why the word "ambulatory" is contained in the name - you are really expected to get a life in between times to get the fluid into your abdomen). When it comes time to change fluid - it's called an "exchange" - you get out the empty bag, go through the entire hookup process all over again, and put the empty bag in a position which is lower than your abdomen so the fluid goes out of your abdomen into the bag. Then you put in clean fluid - that dextrose solution I described earlier. You would be given specific instructions as to how to do this if you choose CAPD as your method of doing dialysis. Your doctor might want to know how much additional fluid comes off into the CAPD bag (a method of doing what's called an I & O - intake and output chart - will be given to you if this is something your doctor wants done). A lot depends on your doctor's preferences; it's just that CAPD wasn't available in 1978 when I was dialyzing.

As to how it feels to be hooked up on the machine, it depends on your body. Some people get horrible charley horses when they are on - I never did, fortunately, and the one cramp I got in my foot was a pussycat. It has to do with how eager the staff might be to get the stuff out of your system. The important part is that it's rather like being hooked up to fetal monitors during labor. You're hooked up on a machine for two to four hours (depending on whether or not you're doing hyperfiltration or are doing your first few treatments or whatever), and you will likely have to learn to withstand the sight of blood (the blood will go through clear plastic tubing to a contraption called a dialyzer, which does the actual work of the artificial kidney - the rest of the machine is basically pumps and a place to hold the dialysis fluids and water and stuff until the dialyzer's ready for it). My problem used to be nausea and vomiting - I was more nauseous during the last hour or two of each treatment than I ever got during the end stages of kidney failure before I started dialysis.

The point I'm trying to make is that your own natural kidneys - or a transplant - is a much better substitute than any dialysis method known. The problem is that IgAN can recur in the transplant.

Robin s

http://www.themestream.com/authors/73826.html

[Guest guest]

Oh gawd...none of that sounds the least bit appealing. Especially at 8:30 in the morning. But thank you so much for the information. And I guess you're right...I'm just gonna have to " suck it up buttercup " if the process is needed. Ugh....

Snoop81485@... wrote:

Another question, what does it feel like while your hooked up to the machine. Also, what about the treatment through your stomach ( I think that is what I read)? OK - I'll take the second question first. The treatment through your stomach is indeed through your stomach - CAPD stands for Continuous Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis because the peritoneum (the membrane keeping your stomach separate from your kidneys, lungs and the rest of your body) is the membrane used to dialyze you. You hook up a bag - it looks like an extra-large IV bag - to a tube in your abdomen (actually, the tube is between your peritoneum and the skin covering your abdomen) which has a little port leading to the outside. You have to " spike " the bag with a little plastic tube with a needle-like plastic contraption at the bag end (this end can come with a UV light to help cut down the risk of peritonitis by helping to sterilize the thing you spike the bag with) , and the other end of that tube goes in the end of the abdominal tube. Then the fluid runs into the abdomen and stays there while you do your normal thing (which is why the word " ambulatory " is contained in the name - you are really expected to get a life in between times to get the fluid into your abdomen). When it comes time to change fluid - it's called an " exchange " - you get out the empty bag, go through the entire hookup process all over again, and put the empty bag in a position which is lower than your abdomen so the fluid goes out of your abdomen into the bag. Then you put in clean fluid - that dextrose solution I described earlier. You would be given specific instructions as to how to do this if you choose CAPD as your method of doing dialysis. Your doctor might want to know how much additional fluid comes off into the CAPD bag (a method of doing what's called an I & O - intake and output chart - will be given to you if this is something your doctor wants done). A lot depends on your doctor's preferences; it's just that CAPD wasn't available in 1978 when I was dialyzing. As to how it feels to be hooked up on the machine, it depends on your body. Some people get horrible charley horses when they are on - I never did, fortunately, and the one cramp I got in my foot was a pussycat. It has to do with how eager the staff might be to get the stuff out of your system. The important part is that it's rather like being hooked up to fetal monitors during labor. You're hooked up on a machine for two to four hours (depending on whether or not you're doing hyperfiltration or are doing your first few treatments or whatever), and you will likely have to learn to withstand the sight of blood (the blood will go through clear plastic tubing to a contraption called a dialyzer, which does the actual work of the artificial kidney - the rest of the machine is basically pumps and a place to hold the dialysis fluids and water and stuff until the dialyzer's ready for it). My problem used to be nausea and vomiting - I was more nauseous during the last hour or two of each treatment than I ever got during the end stages of kidney failure before I started dialysis. The point I'm trying to make is that your own natural kidneys - or a transplant - is a much better substitute than any dialysis method known. The problem is that IgAN can recur in the transplant. Robin s http://www.themestream.com/authors/73826.html

[Guest guest]

-Hi Sam, I know I don't say much, but I have been following your

mesages about you and J's relationship and situation. When I read

your comment about J's father's emotions ruling the household, it

occurred to me that J may be doing the exact same thing in your

relationship with him, whether he realizes it or not. It sounds alot

like living with an alcoholic, in terms of everyone in the family

always trying to read their moods, and adjusting their behavior

accordingly. While I am in to way calling J an alcoholic, some Alon

Anon literature for yourself might help you begin to understand your

own responses to J's illness, and help you realize what you can, and

most importantly can't change. Good luck, Clair -- In iga-

nephropathy@y..., Farr <phaedre23@y...> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback everybody. I needed the

> reality check. I value your insights and I realize I

> probably need to find some sort of counselling for my

> own peace of mind right now.

>

> I have thought about it and I am committed to this

> relationship. Remember, many of us, certainly this is

> true in my case, come to the group when things are

> unbearable and not before. I'm not 25 or even 29

> anymore and J. is not my first serious relationship. I

> do have some idea of what is salvageable and what is

> beyond hope. That said, I realize we have some serious

> difficulties that need to be worked out. Stepping out

> of the situation is not the answer - I think

> counselling is.

>

> This is a committed relationship. I don't want to

> offend anyone but the idea of marriage is repugnant to

> me in this social framework,if it were not I would

> have considered marrying this man by now.

> Nevertheless, I take my bond with J. seriously. I know

> a lot of his behavior right now is horribly

> controlling and dysfunctional and I'm probably being

> dysfunctional too but a lot of the problems between us

> arise from the stress of our present situation and not

> from what is between us when we are able to come down

> from all of this and think it through calmly and with

> compassion. He is reverting to the model he has seen

> all his life. His parents' relationship is

> stereotypically sexist and his father's emotions rule

> the household. If J. were to move back in with his

> parents that would be the end of him. We talked about

> that option and we both came to the conclusion that

> breaking the habits formed by a lifetime spent with

> parents who were completely consumed by his illness,

> created and still creates more problems than can be

> easily solved but they weill never be solved in an

> environment where that kind of behavior is normal and

> acceptable.

>

> Stepping back into the past is not the answer. They

> are very well meaning people but the level of tension

> in their home is and (from all accounts has always

> been) quite high. That solution would cause us both a

> lot of harm would certainly signal the end of our life

> together permanantly.

>

> As for the logistics of our financial problems, well,

> I don't really see any end in sight there. I need a

> part or full time job and he needs to be more actively

> involved in his professional life. Until we accomplish

> that, things are likely to be hard. My meagre income

> alone is more than social assistance allows for. If we

> were to take that route, I'd have to leave school. The

> problem is Toronto. Our expenses here come to more

> than $2000. a month. In Ottawa that figure would be

> halved. Car insurance is more expensive here, rent is

> absolutely obscene and don't even get me started on

> all the little Toronto extras that add up, expensive

> transit passes are just the beginning. I'm offended

> that it requires an income in excess of $50,000.

> annually for the privlege of living in cramped and

> grimy surroundings, (the neighborhood and the city in

> general not the apartment) where material excess

> passes for good taste.

>

> Being classified as disabled would be a crushing blow

> for him right now so that's not an option. There are

> some things that really need to be valued above money

> for as long as humanly possible.

>

> I'm disappointed to hear there is no emergency aid for

> prescriptions. Trillium is complicated and invasive

> and anyway, they have as much of a waiting period as

> my plan will have. There's no point in getting them

> involved. The social worker is a good idea, I'm going

> to pursue that with J. after his next appointment with

> the nephrologist.

>

> Here's what else I've worked out.

> I've explained the situation to everybody even

> remotely connected to it and, on Monday, my student

> association is going to propose that they pay for the

> drugs this month and be reimbursed directly when my

> plan is reactivated. J. has arranged for the pharmacy

> to give me a letter stating the drugs he needs for the

> month and the cost of those drugs in an itemized list.

> I am also going to petition my union for help. It is

> possible that neither solution will work but it is

> also possible that one will. As a last resort J. has

> told me his parents would pay for his drugs but I'm

> trying to avoid that. They are very good to us in the

> material sense and my guilt around that makes me

> touchier than I would like to be. I need to find ways

> to get by without their help not only for their sake

> or just for J's self esteem but for my own comfort.

> I am continuing to look for work and J. is going to

> step up his efforts.

> We are delaying a visit to his parents in order to

> deal with this and frankly that makes me feel that we

> are a little more in control of our lives. (I like

> that)

> I'm trying to tell him, in a less agressive,

> non-defensive way when I am feeling resentful because

> he is not pulling his weight and he is trying to

> listen and respond without feeling attacked. (and to

> act more promptly)

> We're giving Toronto 2 more months. If we are still

> finding it unbearable here at the end of November we

> will move. I'll commute when I have to but honestly, I

> don't spend much time on campus at all anymore so

> there won't be much need to commute.

> I'm going to see a counsellor by myself so I have

> someone to talk to when I need to vent or be selfish

> or when I'm fighting with my own sense of guilt over

> being a bitch to someone who is in such a difficult

> position healthwise. I need a truly objective third

> party who has no reason to want to keep us together or

> to see us apart. (I'm referring to my friends here,

> certainly not to the group.) I also need a

> professional to help me figure out some strategies for

> dealing with the negative expectations, fears and

> anxieties of his parents. I must also learn to say no

> to them without making J. think I dislike them. I

> don't dislike them they are good people, as I've said

> before. It's simply that the emotional culture of

> their family is threatening and negative to me, I need

> a more positively oriented kind of support, I don't

> take well to well meaning but ultimately misguided

> suggestions mixed with hand wringing and subtle

> recriminations. I let them completely derail me far

> too often. They seem to assume I'm stupid or incapable

> of thinking through difficult situations and that

> offends me.

> Unless I ask for advice (as I did here) I really get

> into a snit at being told what to do. (according to my

> mother I was pretty much born that way. She says I was

> saying " Leave me alone, I can do it myself " , before I

> cut my second tooth. I was an early and fluent talker,

> which probably comes as no surprise to the members of

> this group.)

>

> Thanks again, (for the hundredth but probably not the

> last time)

>

> _______________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that's true. Excellent idea . J's Mom's

parents were apparently alcoholics and we do tend to

repeat our family patterns so that makes perfect sense

and yes I realize he's living what he learned at home.

It's a bloody difficult pattern to break believe me.

The al-anon thing is a very good idea, thank you.

--- clairmouton@... wrote:

<HR>

<html><body>

<tt>

-Hi Sam, I know I don't say much, but I have been

following your <BR>

mesages about you and J's relationship and

situation. & nbsp; When I read <BR>

your comment about J's father's emotions ruling the

household, it <BR>

occurred to me that J may be doing the exact same

thing in your <BR>

relationship with him, whether he realizes it or

not. & nbsp; It sounds alot <BR>

like living with an alcoholic, in terms of everyone in

the family <BR>

always trying to read their moods, and adjusting their

behavior <BR>

accordingly. & nbsp; While I am in to way calling J an

alcoholic, some Alon <BR>

Anon literature for yourself might help you

begin & nbsp; to understand your <BR>

own responses to J's illness, and help you realize

what you can, and <BR>

most importantly can't change. & nbsp; Good luck,

Clair & nbsp; -- In iga-<BR>

nephropathy@y..., Farr & lt;phaedre23@y... & gt;

wrote:<BR>

& gt; Thanks for the feedback everybody. I needed

the<BR>

& gt; reality check. I value your insights and I

realize I<BR>

& gt; probably need to find some sort of counselling

for my<BR>

& gt; own peace of mind right now. <BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; I have thought about it and I am committed to

this<BR>

& gt; relationship. Remember, many of us, certainly

this is<BR>

& gt; true in my case, come to the group when things

are<BR>

& gt; unbearable and not before. I'm not 25 or even

29<BR>

& gt; anymore and J. is not my first serious

relationship. I<BR>

& gt; do have some idea of what is salvageable and what

is<BR>

& gt; beyond hope. That said, I realize we have some

serious<BR>

& gt; difficulties that need to be worked out. Stepping

out<BR>

& gt; of the situation is not the answer - I think<BR>

& gt; counselling is.<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; This is a committed relationship. I don't want

to<BR>

& gt; offend anyone but the idea of marriage is

repugnant to<BR>

& gt; me in this social framework,if it were not I

would<BR>

& gt; have considered marrying this man by now. <BR>

& gt; Nevertheless, I take my bond with J. seriously. I

know<BR>

& gt; a lot of his behavior right now is horribly<BR>

& gt; controlling and dysfunctional and I'm probably

being<BR>

& gt; dysfunctional too but a lot of the problems

between us<BR>

& gt; arise from the stress of our present situation

and not<BR>

& gt; from what is between us when we are able to come

down<BR>

& gt; from all of this and think it through calmly and

with<BR>

& gt; compassion. He is reverting to the model he has

seen<BR>

& gt; all his life. His parents' relationship is<BR>

& gt; stereotypically sexist and his father's emotions

rule<BR>

& gt; the household. If J. were to move back in with

his<BR>

& gt; parents that would be the end of him. We talked

about<BR>

& gt; that option and we both came to the conclusion

that<BR>

& gt; breaking the habits formed by a lifetime spent

with<BR>

& gt; parents who were completely consumed by his

illness,<BR>

& gt; created and still creates more problems than can

be<BR>

& gt; easily solved but they weill never be solved in

an<BR>

& gt; environment where that kind of behavior is normal

and<BR>

& gt; acceptable.<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; Stepping back into the past is not the answer.

They<BR>

& gt; are very well meaning people but the level of

tension<BR>

& gt; in their home is and (from all accounts has

always<BR>

& gt; been) quite high. That solution would cause us

both a<BR>

& gt; lot of harm would certainly signal the end of our

life<BR>

& gt; together permanantly.<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; As for the logistics of our financial problems,

well,<BR>

& gt; I don't really see any end in sight there. I need

a<BR>

& gt; part or full time job and he needs to be more

actively<BR>

& gt; involved in his professional life. Until we

accomplish<BR>

& gt; that, things are likely to be hard. My meagre

income<BR>

& gt; alone is more than social assistance allows for.

If we<BR>

& gt; were to take that route, I'd have to leave

school. The<BR>

& gt; problem is Toronto. Our expenses here come to

more<BR>

& gt; than $2000. a month. In Ottawa that figure would

be<BR>

& gt; halved. Car insurance is more expensive here,

rent is<BR>

& gt; absolutely obscene and don't even get me started

on<BR>

& gt; all the little Toronto extras that add up,

expensive<BR>

& gt; transit passes are just the beginning. I'm

offended<BR>

& gt; that it requires an income in excess of

$50,000.<BR>

& gt; annually for the privlege of living in cramped

and<BR>

& gt; grimy surroundings, (the neighborhood and the

city in<BR>

& gt; general not the apartment) where material

excess<BR>

& gt; passes for good taste. <BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; Being classified as disabled would be a crushing

blow<BR>

& gt; for him right now so that's not an option. There

are<BR>

& gt; some things that really need to be valued above

money<BR>

& gt; for as long as humanly possible. <BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; I'm disappointed to hear there is no emergency

aid for<BR>

& gt; prescriptions. Trillium is complicated and

invasive<BR>

& gt; and anyway, they have as much of a waiting period

as<BR>

& gt; my plan will have. There's no point in getting

them<BR>

& gt; involved. The social worker is a good idea, I'm

going<BR>

& gt; to pursue that with J. after his next appointment

with<BR>

& gt; the nephrologist.<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; Here's what else I've worked out. <BR>

& gt; I've explained the situation to everybody

even<BR>

& gt; remotely connected to it and, on Monday, my

student<BR>

& gt; association is going to propose that they pay for

the<BR>

& gt; drugs this month and be reimbursed directly when

my<BR>

& gt; plan is reactivated. J. has arranged for the

pharmacy<BR>

& gt; to give me a letter stating the drugs he needs

for the<BR>

& gt; month and the cost of those drugs in an itemized

list.<BR>

& gt; I am also going to petition my union for help. It

is<BR>

& gt; possible that neither solution will work but it

is<BR>

& gt; also possible that one will. As a last resort J.

has<BR>

& gt; told me his parents would pay for his drugs but

I'm<BR>

& gt; trying to avoid that. They are very good to us in

the<BR>

& gt; material sense and my guilt around that makes

me<BR>

& gt; touchier than I would like to be. I need to find

ways<BR>

& gt; to get by without their help not only for their

sake<BR>

& gt; or just for J's self esteem but for my own

comfort.<BR>

& gt; I am continuing to look for work and J. is going

to<BR>

& gt; step up his efforts.<BR>

& gt; We are delaying a visit to his parents in order

to<BR>

& gt; deal with this and frankly that makes me feel

that we<BR>

& gt; are a little more in control of our lives. (I

like<BR>

& gt; that) <BR>

& gt; I'm trying to tell him, in a less agressive,<BR>

& gt; non-defensive way when I am feeling resentful

because<BR>

& gt; he is not pulling his weight and he is trying

to<BR>

& gt; listen and respond without feeling attacked. (and

to<BR>

& gt; act more promptly)<BR>

& gt; We're giving Toronto 2 more months. If we are

still<BR>

& gt; finding it unbearable here at the end of November

we<BR>

& gt; will move. I'll commute when I have to but

honestly, I<BR>

& gt; don't spend much time on campus at all anymore

so<BR>

& gt; there won't be much need to commute.<BR>

& gt; I'm going to see a counsellor by myself so I

have<BR>

& gt; someone to talk to when I need to vent or be

selfish<BR>

& gt; or when I'm fighting with my own sense of guilt

over<BR>

& gt; being a bitch to someone who is in such a

difficult<BR>

& gt; position healthwise. I need a truly objective

third<BR>

& gt; party who has no reason to want to keep us

together or<BR>

& gt; to see us apart. (I'm referring to my friends

here,<BR>

& gt; certainly not to the group.) I also need a<BR>

& gt; professional to help me figure out some

strategies for<BR>

& gt; dealing with the negative expectations, fears

and<BR>

& gt; anxieties of his parents. I must also learn to

say no<BR>

& gt; to them without making J. think I dislike them.

I<BR>

& gt; don't dislike them they are good people, as I've

said<BR>

& gt; before. It's simply that the emotional culture

of<BR>

& gt; their family is threatening and negative to me, I

need<BR>

& gt; a more positively oriented kind of support, I

don't<BR>

& gt; take well to well meaning but ultimately

misguided<BR>

& gt; suggestions mixed with hand wringing and

subtle<BR>

& gt; recriminations. & nbsp; & nbsp; I let them completely

derail me far<BR>

& gt; too often. They seem to assume I'm stupid or

incapable<BR>

& gt; of thinking through difficult situations and

that<BR>

& gt; offends me.<BR>

& gt; Unless I ask for advice (as I did here) I really

get<BR>

& gt; into a snit at being told what to do. (according

to my<BR>

& gt; mother I was pretty much born that way. She says

I was<BR>

& gt; saying & quot;Leave me alone, I can do it

myself & quot;, before I<BR>

& gt; cut my second tooth. I was an early and fluent

talker,<BR>

& gt; which probably comes as no surprise to the

members of<BR>

& gt; this group.)<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt; Thanks again, (for the hundredth but probably not

the<BR>

& gt; last time)<BR>

& gt; <BR>

& gt;

_______________________________________________________<BR>

& gt;

[Guest guest]

thanks so much gordon and john, you guys are great!

jaime EG

[Guest guest]

Garbled speech can also be the progression of LBD. Wait and watch, it is always

something!

May be temporary, or can be permanent, prepare for both, and then there are no

surprises.

LBD really sucks! Just in case no one has said it lately!

Carol

Caregave for mother-in-law(age 81) who was the third of three sisters to die of

LBD.