Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2 medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2. one urologist says if he did surgery he would " take everything " I could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing ! i still have the door knob ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 OK . Let's cut to the chase. As I read it you are saying you want to commit suicide by cancer. You have been asking our advice for several months now and I have replied to you before at some length. Many others on the list have done the same. A number of doctors have given you advice also. I have to ask what do you want from us? If you really want the cancer to kill you sooner than later you will just continue making excuses. Get a grip on it man! Suck it up and do what you have to do. Get treated. It may just allow you to live for the day you hear that a cure for Prostate Cancer has been discovered. We all care " No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. " ( Donne Devotions upon Emergent Occasions, no. 6) which doc to i believe ? >I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2 > medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had > 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa > 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms > appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also > been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as > yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the > radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told > by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that > important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i > have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2. > one urologist says if he did surgery he would " take everything " I > could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing ! > i still have the door knob ! > > > > > > > > > > > There are just two rules for this group > 1 No Spam > 2 Be kind to others > > Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply > Try to change the title if the content requires it > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Check into nerve sparing RP with laproscopic or robotic (DaVinci) surgery. If getting it out is an option, do it.allstar003 wrote: I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptomsappear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have alsobeen told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent asyesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from theradiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was toldby urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is thatimportant ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that ihave hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2.one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" Icould not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing !i still have the door knob ! Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Ann: Your not reading his emails very carefully - he said surgery wasn't an option. The robotic (Da Vinci) surgery is not the answer for everyone like you seem to think. Have a little compassion. Sorry if I seem harsh, but ' situation is nothing like your husbands or mine. He needs support and is trying to make some life rendering decisions. I don't feel qualified to give you any advice, because your situation is so different then my husband's, but I know there are guys out there that have gone through what you are and have had good outcomes. I know you've seen a lot of doctors but maybe you should try UCLA - they have renoun urologic onclogy center or do any of you guys out there have some other suggestions for . Stay positive - there is hope for you. You just haven't found the right information yet. Re: which doc to i believe ? Check into nerve sparing RP with laproscopic or robotic (DaVinci) surgery. If getting it out is an option, do it.allstar003 wrote: I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptomsappear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have alsobeen told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent asyesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from theradiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was toldby urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is thatimportant ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that ihave hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2.one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" Icould not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing !i still have the door knob ! Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 - Nobody in this group will tell you which doctor to believe and which one not to believe, but I guarantee that 99.9% of the folks in this group would agree that you need to start fighting this cancer now, if you want to see your 50th birthday. This isn't based on opinion, but rather on the experience of the hundreds of guys that have watched their buddies die because they were diagnosed too late or because they waited too long to start cancer treatment . The fact that you feel great and have no symptoms is meaningless because the fact remains that you have a rising PSA and a Gleason Score of 8, which means there is a good possibility that your cancer has spread outside your prostate. If I'm counting correctly, you have had 5 doctors examine you, and you said " the one common thought between all the doc's is that i have hormone and radiation." My question then is why do you ask who you should believe? You asked the group why you should treat if you only have a 25% chance of being cured? There are guys in this group right now that would give anything to have a 25% chance of being cured of PCa. With a PSA of 25 and a Gleason Score of 8, each day you put off treating your PCa your window of opportunity to cure it gets that much smaller. If you feel some frustration from a few members (me included) it's because we just don't understand why you won't at least treat when 5 out of 5 doctors agree that this is your best course of action at this time. It royally sucks that there is no cure for advanced PCa at this time. But tomorrow there might be a cure and that is why we never let go of hope. Mick allstar003 wrote: I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2 medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2. one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" I could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing ! i still have the door knob ! God rewards those that keep on keeping on. Stay positive. Think positive. Pray positive. And talk positive. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 "My question then is why do you ask who you should believe? You asked the group why you should treat if you only have a 25% chance of being cured? There are guys in this group right now that would give anything to have a 25% chance of being cured of PCa." Maybe he will listen to you, Mick. He won't listen to me. Oh, and . Google my sig "il faut d'abord durer" and then tell me it is not Hemingway. "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway Re: which doc to i believe ? - Nobody in this group will tell you which doctor to believe and which one not to believe, but I guarantee that 99.9% of the folks in this group would agree that you need to start fighting this cancer now, if you want to see your 50th birthday. This isn't based on opinion, but rather on the experience of the hundreds of guys that have watched their buddies die because they were diagnosed too late or because they waited too long to start cancer treatment . The fact that you feel great and have no symptoms is meaningless because the fact remains that you have a rising PSA and a Gleason Score of 8, which means there is a good possibility that your cancer has spread outside your prostate. If I'm counting correctly, you have had 5 doctors examine you, and you said " the one common thought between all the doc's is that i have hormone and radiation." My question then is why do you ask who you should believe? You asked the group why you should treat if you only have a 25% chance of being cured? There are guys in this group right now that would give anything to have a 25% chance of being cured of PCa.With a PSA of 25 and a Gleason Score of 8, each day you put off treating your PCa your window of opportunity to cure it gets that much smaller. If you feel some frustration from a few members (me included) it's because we just don't understand why you won't at least treat when 5 out of 5 doctors agree that this is your best course of action at this time. It royally sucks that there is no cure for advanced PCa at this time. But tomorrow there might be a cure and that is why we never let go of hope. Mick allstar003 wrote: I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptomsappear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have alsobeen told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent asyesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from theradiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was toldby urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is thatimportant ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that ihave hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2.one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" Icould not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing !i still have the door knob ! God rewards those that keep on keeping on. Stay positive. Think positive. Pray positive. And talk positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Ann, Nerve sparing is only an option if the cancer has not spread too far. There are cases where the prostate cannot be removed without removing the nerves. If the doctor says nerve sparing cannot be done it probably has more to do with the cancer than the doctor but if the doctor is not very experienced he may be less likely eager to do nerve sparing in a more advanced cancer. Kathy Re: which doc to i believe ? Check into nerve sparing RP with laproscopic or robotic (DaVinci) surgery. If getting it out is an option, do it. _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi All, Removing the prostate, no matter how it is done, with his diagnosis, it will not be curative. In fact I believe that removing the prostate will only add to his problems due to the unpleasant side effects. Since he lives near Los Angeles, I suggest that he see Dr. Mark Scholz or Dr. Bob Leibowitz and begin a regimen of hormone ablation. You can e-mail Dr. Scholz at: mark@... You can reach Dr. Bob Leibowitz at These doctors usually have the patients go on triple hormone ablation therapy for 12 to 13 months. They both have had some excellent results. I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.)Author of A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for free at: www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrimRead the new edition for free at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision Check into nerve sparing RP with laproscopic or robotic (DaVinci) surgery. If getting it out is an option, do it.allstar003 wrote: I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptomsappear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have alsobeen told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent asyesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from theradiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was toldby urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is thatimportant ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that ihave hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2.one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" Icould not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing !i still have the door knob ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 > > I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2 > medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had > 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa > 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms > appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also > been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as > yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the > radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told > by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that > important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i > have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2. > one urologist says if he did surgery he would " take everything " I > could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing ! > i still have the door knob ! > Hi, I am new here, but have been lurking for a while. I am in pretty much the same boat. Age (YOUNG) 51 psa 18 gleason 9 all of the scans negative except the endorectal mri (WAY FUN!) revealed a little escape outside of the prostate into some fatty tissue. I feel great with no symptoms at all. My first doctor, local urologist who gave me the initial diagnosis offered surgery and hormones and possibly radiation. The whole surgery thing really freaked me out (as did the possibility of dying). The doctor called me late that evening and suggested I contact a collegue of his who does robotic surgery as it would put less of a crimp in my lifestyle. I did some research and this seemed to be a pretty good option. I met with the surgeon (who is also an oncologist and urologist) he did a dre and suspected some escape. He told me in my case nerve sparing would NOT be an option. They go in and clean out all of the crap. Not the most desireable option but wtf? The mri confirmed the " escape " and further discussion concluded surgery to not be the best option with only about a 25% chance of getting it all. He sent me to a radiation oncologist. He told me aggressive cancer like I have is pretty common in younger men. After considerable research we decided on high dose brachytherapy, preceeded by hormone treatment, then 5 weeks of external radiation (imrt)then a year or so of hormone treatment. The doctors had a great deal of confidence that this should take care of it. He assured me my case wasn't at all unique. And has seen very high success with this course of treatment. There will be some definate unpleasantness associated with the treatments. But beats dying big time! It was tough to come to grips with making my healty body feel sick, but..... I started the hormone thing 2 weeks ago (Zolodex and Casodex). So far (hear the wood being knocked on!) no side effects. Will be meeting with the brachytherapy guy next month. Will probibly get it done in the fall. I have confidence in the team I am working with. Nobody tried to " sell " me their wiz bang treatment dujour. I am looking forward to a full recovery with (hopefully)not too much disrupton of my life. Good Luck To All C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi C. You seem to have it all together. Good for you. I will give you a little extra luck on your journey by sending you something from my heritage. " May St. guard you wherever you go, and guide you in whatever you do-- and may his loving protection be a blessing to you always. " Ancient Irish saying.. 2546 " il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway Re: which doc to i believe ? > >> >> I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman > LA)2 >> medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have > had >> 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa >> 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms >> appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also >> been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as >> yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the >> radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told >> by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that >> important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i >> have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2. >> one urologist says if he did surgery he would " take everything " I >> could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing > ! >> i still have the door knob ! >> > > Hi, I am new here, but have been lurking for a while. I am in pretty > much the same boat. Age (YOUNG) 51 psa 18 gleason 9 all of the scans > negative except the endorectal mri (WAY FUN!) revealed a little escape > outside of the prostate into some fatty tissue. I feel great with no > symptoms at all. > My first doctor, local urologist who gave me the initial diagnosis > offered surgery and hormones and possibly radiation. The whole surgery > thing really freaked me out (as did the possibility of dying). The > doctor called me late that evening and suggested I contact a collegue > of his who does robotic surgery as it would put less of a crimp in my > lifestyle. I did some research and this seemed to be a pretty good > option. I met with the surgeon (who is also an oncologist and > urologist) he did a dre and suspected some escape. He told me in my > case nerve sparing would NOT be an option. They go in and clean out > all of the crap. Not the most desireable option but wtf? The mri > confirmed the " escape " and further discussion concluded surgery to not > be the best option with only about a 25% chance of getting it all. He > sent me to a radiation oncologist. He told me aggressive cancer like I > have is pretty common in younger men. After considerable research we > decided on high dose brachytherapy, preceeded by hormone treatment, > then 5 weeks of external radiation (imrt)then a year or so of hormone > treatment. The doctors had a great deal of confidence that this should > take care of it. He assured me my case wasn't at all unique. And has > seen very high success with this course of treatment. There will be > some definate unpleasantness associated with the treatments. But beats > dying big time! It was tough to come to grips with making my healty > body feel sick, but..... > I started the hormone thing 2 weeks ago (Zolodex and Casodex). So far > (hear the wood being knocked on!) no side effects. Will be meeting > with the brachytherapy guy next month. Will probibly get it done in > the fall. > I have confidence in the team I am working with. Nobody tried to > " sell " me their wiz bang treatment dujour. I am looking forward to a > full recovery with (hopefully)not too much disrupton of my life. > > Good Luck To All > C > > > > > > > > > > There are just two rules for this group > 1 No Spam > 2 Be kind to others > > Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply > Try to change the title if the content requires it > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 e You sound to be having a good go at hitting it hard. I hope it stops it in it's tracks. Unfortunately with stats like yours you have to hit with the maxium armamnets as soon as possible. Did they explain that the Casodex/Zoledex is to shrink the tumour before the brachytherapy. Best wishes Re: which doc to i believe ? >Hi, I am new here, but have been lurking for a while. I am in pretty much the same boat. Age (YOUNG) 51 psa 18 gleason 9 all of the scans negative except the endorectal mri (WAY FUN!) revealed a little escapeoutside of the prostate into some fatty tissue. I feel great with no symptoms at all. My first doctor, local urologist who gave me the initial diagnosis offered surgery and hormones and possibly radiation. The whole surgery thing really freaked me out (as did the possibility of dying). The doctor called me late that evening and suggested I contact a collegue of his who does robotic surgery as it would put less of a crimp in my lifestyle. I did some research and this seemed to be a pretty good option. I met with the surgeon (who is also an oncologist and urologist) he did a dre and suspected some escape. He told me in my case nerve sparing would NOT be an option. They go in and clean out all of the crap. Not the most desireable option but wtf? The mri confirmed the "escape" and further discussion concluded surgery to not be the best option with only about a 25% chance of getting it all. He sent me to a radiation oncologist. He told me aggressive cancer like I have is pretty common in younger men. After considerable research we decided on high dose brachytherapy, preceeded by hormone treatment, then 5 weeks of external radiation (imrt)then a year or so of hormone treatment. The doctors had a great deal of confidence that this should take care of it. He assured me my case wasn't at all unique. And has seen very high success with this course of treatment. There will be some definate unpleasantness associated with the treatments. But beats dying big time! It was tough to come to grips with making my healty body feel sick, but.....I started the hormone thing 2 weeks ago (Zolodex and Casodex). So far (hear the wood being knocked on!) no side effects. Will be meeting with the brachytherapy guy next month. Will probibly get it done in the fall. I have confidence in the team I am working with. Nobody tried to "sell" me their wiz bang treatment dujour. I am looking forward to a full recovery with (hopefully)not too much disrupton of my life.Good Luck To AllC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hi C, I think you made an excellent decision. The hormone therapy will suppress your testosterone. The cancer cells thrive on testosterone so without it, many of them will shrink and die. The hormones treat the cancer no matter where it is in the body. The local therapies can only treat disease which is still in the prostate. Yes, there will be some unpleasant side effects, but it will only last for perhaps a year or so. Then you should be free to live a long life. I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.)Author of A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for free at: www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrimRead the new edition for free at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision In ProstateCancerSupport , "allstar003" wrote:>> I have seen 2 urologist's (st.johns santa monica) (daniel freeman LA)2> medical onclogist's (ceders saini) 1 (radation oncologist) I have had> 2 Mri's a cat scan and bone scan (negative). I am 43 gleason 8 psa> 25.7 and no symptoms. I have been told i can wait until symptoms> appear I also have been told to start treatment at once. I have also> been told i will not see my 50th birthday. I was told as recent as> yesterday that the chance of being cured is 25% ? thats from the> radiation oncologist. If thats the case why do anything ? I was told> by urologist that he has never treated anyone my age..is that> important ? the one common thought between all the doc's is that i> have hormone and radiation some say 3 years hormones and some say 2.> one urologist says if he did surgery he would "take everything" I> could not leave his office fast enough ! no thought of nerve sparing!> i still have the door knob !>Hi, I am new here, but have been lurking for a while. I am in pretty much the same boat. Age (YOUNG) 51 psa 18 gleason 9 all of the scans negative except the endorectal mri (WAY FUN!) revealed a little escapeoutside of the prostate into some fatty tissue. I feel great with no symptoms at all. My first doctor, local urologist who gave me the initial diagnosis offered surgery and hormones and possibly radiation. The whole surgery thing really freaked me out (as did the possibility of dying). The doctor called me late that evening and suggested I contact a collegue of his who does robotic surgery as it would put less of a crimp in my lifestyle. I did some research and this seemed to be a pretty good option. I met with the surgeon (who is also an oncologist and urologist) he did a dre and suspected some escape. He told me in my case nerve sparing would NOT be an option. They go in and clean out all of the crap. Not the most desireable option but wtf? The mri confirmed the "escape" and further discussion concluded surgery to not be the best option with only about a 25% chance of getting it all. He sent me to a radiation oncologist. He told me aggressive cancer like I have is pretty common in younger men. After considerable research we decided on high dose brachytherapy, preceeded by hormone treatment, then 5 weeks of external radiation (imrt)then a year or so of hormone treatment. The doctors had a great deal of confidence that this should take care of it. He assured me my case wasn't at all unique. And has seen very high success with this course of treatment. There will be some definate unpleasantness associated with the treatments. But beats dying big time! It was tough to come to grips with making my healty body feel sick, but.....I started the hormone thing 2 weeks ago (Zolodex and Casodex). So far (hear the wood being knocked on!) no side effects. Will be meeting with the brachytherapy guy next month. Will probibly get it done in the fall. I have confidence in the team I am working with. Nobody tried to "sell" me their wiz bang treatment dujour. I am looking forward to a full recovery with (hopefully)not too much disrupton of my life.Good Luck To AllC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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