Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Alan Turing defined " artificial intelligence " as test involving online communication between two terminals. If the human being on one end can't tell if the entity on the other isn't human, then the computer is said to have true AI. I use the term metaphorically to say that an AC who can pass for NT has passed the Turing Test - you've fooled the person you're communicating with into thinking that you're essentially like them, as far as the structure of your mind goes. I suppose this can work in reverse, too. If you're not autistic, you've fooled me enough to not notice a lack of autism - keeping in mind the nature of this group and that I'm missing all of the non-textual clues that would point our your neurological condition. Since this list tends to be " autistics perseverating on autism, " and you're perseverating on autism, you're definitely " fitting in. " It helps that you're talking about yourself, rather than your children. There's something vaguely insulting about a neurotypical parent perseverating about their child's autism. It is as if many of them cannot separate the simply annoying from the truly dangerous. E.g., it doesn't matter if your child would rather STACK blocks than build cities with them, or would rather ALIGN toy cars than go " zoom zoom " around the kitchen floor with them - but it does matter if they are so fascinated by real cars that they walk out into the street, oblivious to real danger, or if they throw their blocks at other children, adults, or fragile objects. There's that whole " to do is to be " vs. " to be is to do " meme about what a person *is.* Since in autism, as in life, you can't tell a person to NOT-BE what they truly ARE, it's important that you inform the individual to not-do only those things which are actually important to not-do. I hope this makes sense - I'm sleep-deprived right now. Re: Accepting my AS > > > > If you can pass a Turing Test, you've got > > Asperger's, even if you didn't say your first words until you were six years > > old. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 > > Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:19:10 -0700 > To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > Subject: Re: Accepting my AS > > wrote: > I can understand that. Because of the particular order of events > leading up to my eventual dx, I found learning of the spectrum to be > wholly positive, without the angst that a lot of people have when they > find out that it is not a psychological condition that can be fixed with > the right therapy (or drug). For those of you that have read my story > umpteen times already, I apologize in advance, but I can't help writing > about my favorite subject (me), and it is relevant to the topic at hand. , I had read parts but not all of your story before, and was really moved by it and glad to hear it! I can relate to the place you remember as being accepted; the only problem with me is I keep going back & wishing I were there or could find someplace like that again & it'll never happen. > > The depression followed me as I moved out of exile and back to another > Cal State University campus... it even followed me when I re-applied at > the original campus (Cal Poly Pomona) and became a student there yet > again. I hated myself... I hated everything about myself. I had no > idea why everyone hated me, but I had internalized the things that they > had been telling me for years. I agreed with the things people had been > saying about me. I mostly agree with what people say about me too, and that I'm not very likeable but don't know why, but many times I'm able to forget this if I'm not around people, so I manage not to fall into as deep a depression as you did. When I'm with people sometimes I can imagine how they must see me, and it's not a pretty picture, both physically and mentally, so I can't imagine why anyone would choose to be friends with me. > > Within two weeks, the depression disappeared. It was so fast that it > left me freaked out, not knowing how to think or feel without the > comfortable self-pity that had become my macabre friend in the past few > years. I came close to stopping the meds, because I so missed the > ability to wallow in my despair. I didn't stop, though, and soon I > figured out that I could function without hating myself. Wow! > > I quickly learned that I was okay... the people that hated me for > superficial reasons were wrong. I had no idea what my diagnosis was; I > didn't even wonder if there was a diagnostic concept that described me. > I was me, regardless of the label, and I was beginning to like me. I > didn't need a label to know that I was okay as I was; I just knew. That's great!! > > > That was the beginning of the end of our long-standing roommate > relationship. We had met in college, in the dorm, and swapped > roommates, so he and I were in the same dorm room. Rather than go > through official channels to change roommates, my former roommate and > new roommate simply switched. It's easier to say " I'm sorry " than to > get permission... the dorm's RC (residence counselor, the paid person > who oversaw the RAs (residence advisors, unpaid students who got free > room and board as consideration for policing their respective dorm > wings) was shocked, and began to lecture us on how we were supposed to > do this... then he realized that it was done, we were all happy, and > this was a non-issue. That's good. It's funny how some people will make a big thing of something like that. But having a roommate--wow! I was only able to have a roommate twice in my life. Both times I either worried the whole time I was somehow offending them, or I kept comparing my life to theirs, seeing htey had friends & I didn't and so on, and it was so painful I was happy it ended and I never wanted to repeat it! I've heard other Aspies having problems of one sort or another with roommates. > > That was when I discovered the autism spectrum. > > I knew instantly that I had found the source of my weirdness. The > article contained descriptions of several kids with AS, and it was so > much like me, that there was really no doubt at all that this was me. This is how I felt when I read aobut social anxiety disorder & avoidant personality disorder. But when I started reading accounts from actual people with AS, then some of the socializing problems and also the clumsiness and not being able to think on my feet in conversations, even online ones, applied to me. This ambivalence about whether I'm really like that or not is why I have so much trouble accepting AS in myself, and probably would even if a doctor siad I had it. I've always been obsessed with " what is wrong with me, why can't I have friends " . Right before learning about social anxiety I thought my problem was my looks and dreamed about having cosmetic surgery, even though I couldn't afford it. I read a book about someone who had that and people started treating her better, though she had a new set of problems. I have a hard time accepting how ugly I am as well and that I'll never look better, only worse as I get older. > > For the first few months, it was kind of like a novelty... I knew why I > was different, but it was not that important to me. I searched online > and found a few articles on the subject, and that was that. At first, I > was kind of amazed that I had a form of autism; I instantly thought > about how once I had said that I wished I was autistic, because I wanted > to live in my own little world (given that the real world treated me so > badly). I had this idea that autistics were daydreaming 24 hours a day, > like they were on their own little Matrix, living lives in their own > heads, not realizing that it was a waking dream. That was my > interpretation of my mother's description of autistics living " in their > own little world. " I thought that sounded like a hell of an idea... it > never once occurred to me that the reason I wanted to live in my own > little world was because I already was autistic. Yes, that would make sense!!!!! > > I immediately flashed to the things I had read about AS, and how similar > some of them were to the experience of that night. I was engaged in a > way that I had not been before. YOu mean not picking up on social signals? >That list, in turn, was the > immediate parent to this list, which I created after that previous > listowner declared anti-US comments, including reposting from elsewhere, > off limits, in the days following 9-11-01. I did not like that, so > after repeated pleas to change that policy were denied, I formed the > Treehouse. I had noticed the date this list started & wondered about that! > > What this probably painfully long-winded novella was intended to > illustrate, in context, was that it did not matter what the label was, > or if there was one. I liked me, and the name for what I was did not > matter. I had accepted that this is how I would always be already, so > finding that it was a function of an incurable disorder was no problem. > I liked it, really; I don't want to be any other way. I wish I could get to that point someday....... > > One thing that instantly stood out was that a lot of my new-found online > community did not share the positive view I had of my new diagnosis. I > saw it as an explanation for a " me " that I really liked, so to me, it > was a gift. I immediately began to write on the topic, and one of my > first essays on that topic (originally written as a post on the second > AS list I had joined) is now on my site. Yes, I've read that one & it's really good. I still identify with a lot of the naysayers though.... > > That is not necesarily so. Knowing what the problem has been can help > you devise workaround strategies. For one, you can possibly find a > kindred spirit in someone else that is not normal. It need not be > someone with the same condition; anyone that is out of the mainstream > group can probably identify with a lot of your issues. That's true. But for some reason when I'm with someone like that I immediately think that they're going to think I'm too superficial. And I always have to feel like I have to change myself in some way to be accepted by them. Like I have to renounce the world somehow, say everything NT's do is bad or everything so-called " nornal " people do is bad, say I hate pop culture, popular music, clothes, etc., have a really far-left or far-right set of politics, or something in order to belong to the " not normal " group. I gues this is more neurotic stuff. ] > In addition, there are various support and special-interest groups in > various areas, and you may be able to find people there. That's possible. I was in a knitting group for awhile but felt weird because I was the only unmarried, childless one so I quit going. > Obviously, you can never be sure about that. The only way to avoid the > pain of rejection is to totally isolate yourself from situations where > people have that option. That means having no friends, no significant > other, no job, and living like a hermit. (Hey-- I resemble that > remark). I quote The Outfield, in their song " Through the Years: " " If > you want to enjoy the laughter, you've got to ignore the fears... " YEs, that's for sure. Because that's what I do, totally isolate myself as much as possible so no one has the chance to reject me. I don't even ask people to have lunch with me at work. I'm afraid to walk to the bus stop with a co-worker because I'm afraid she'll start leaving early or late to avoid me! > > I took that line slightly out of context, since the song was about > romantic love, not friendship per se, but the principle remains. The > trick is not to find someone that absolutely will not reject you, no > matter what... I do not think you would really want to be friends with > someone like that. No, because they would probably have serious issues or be codependent or something, or else it would mean they felt sorry for me and were afraid to tell me anything negative. >The trick, I think, is to be able to go forward and > let yourself trust enough to have a friend, knowing full well that there > is the possibility of rejection. If you demand certainty that the > person won't reject you before opening up, you're probably not going to > have any friends. Maybe that's my problem...... > > Are you really, or is that just low self-image? I am not sure if my own > perception of my ugliness is a remnant of the old depression, or if it > is accurate. I avoid looking in the mirror... my own visage repulses me. 1. Oh yes I am, even one of my past therapists said I was. 2. But I've seen your picture & you're certainly not. I think your self-perception is a remnant of your depression! > Maybe he will, but if you make the decision for a potential mate, > rejecting others before they can reject you, no one will ever have a > chance to not reject you. I can understand those fears... I have had > them too. Yes, that's what I do. > >> But on the other hand, I'm lazy as well, and afraid if I do all that >> hard work to change, that I may end up as a socially confident and >> non-avoidant, but still disliked and friendless person. > > When my 37 year old female friend was diagnosed, it was done on the > basis of her story. She was not exhibiting any ASD traits other than a > lack of eye contact, but her story of her life experiences, and her > answers to the questions he asked, was sufficient. That was also the > case for the diagnoses I have (I have stacked up several by now; four of > AS and one of HFA). I thought about bringing a checklist of traits, but > I did not; the doctors evaluating me were able to pick up on the things > I said and ask the necessary questions. I didn't have to volunteer the > information, or make my case; the doctors knew what they were looking > for, and they knew where to look for it. Where is the doctor located who diagnosed your friend? I think the only way I would trust a doctor now is if they'd diagnosed AS in another adult female. Although I've been told that one of the doctors I've seen, at least, is very well-respected in this area, and has diagnosed many adults, even females. But I don't reeally personally know the women he's actually diagnosed. > > It seems to me that a competent doctor that knows about AS > would be able to drill down to the essence of the condition without a > list, even if the client answers question in unexpected ways, whereas an > incompetent doctor cannot be trusted to make the AS diagnosis even when > it is completely obvious. Do you think the fact that there's no one from my childhood to tell how I was then might be what's stopping them from diagnosing me???? > > > Even if I was concerned what some hypothetical future person thought > about my diagnosis, I would have to conclude that unless that person was > an autism expert who had interviewed my mom about my early history for > two hours, doing the ADI (autism diagnostic interview), then interviewed > me for 45 minutes about general traits and such, then had me do the ADOS > (Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule) for another hour and a half or > so, that they lack sufficient evidence to be able to dispute the issue. (I never had anywhere near this amount of testing. No one from my childhood. I had the Gilliam Asperger Disorder Scale (GADS), the Millon something or other which was a test to find out mental illness, and some tests to see hhow well I understood prosody and idioms. The last doctor I saw didn't give me any formal tests, but he did ask quite extensive questions aobut my childhood and discussed levels of things with me, like what level of interest in a topic would be considered AS-like. He asked a questions from the DSM-IV and the IC-10 or whatever it's called, which is another list of AS traits. I think he went over the Gillberg & Gillberg ones as well, and he had me read an article about AS throughout the various stages of life to see if it applied to me. But it was mostly about boys & men. He also went over the DSM-IV for sociall anxiety & avoidant personality disorder. I wonder if he is prejudiced towards thinking women have mental illnesses instead of neurological differences??? > It occurred to me that you seemed to assume an adversarial component to > the prospect of a potential mate thinking you have AS that would > probably not be there. You seem worried that you would be hard pressed > to defend against someone that thought you may have AS if he suggested > it, as if it was some sort of attack. If it did come to pass, it would > more likely not be something you have to defend against, but something > that would allow you and he to discuss the matter openly. He would > likely not be using the idea as an attack. Oh yeah he might, I get this from reading various posts in various places from NT spouses and partners of suspected Aspies. Some of them are quite insistent on their spouse/partner accepting their AS and how much they are in denial and all the problems that is causing in the relationship, etc., etc. Meyer has a thing on his website about this very issue, and the tone of it seems to be how to get the Aspie to accept their AS, and how their communication style is harming the relationship, bla, bla, as if the AS one is always in the wrong and the sainted NT could never, never possibly have done anything to cause problems!!!!! Arrrghhh...... > > > Hoo boy... can of worms right there. Suffice it to say that I don't put > a great deal of trust in things he says. See above. I'm starting not to either!!! > > Some people may be in denial about that, or any number of other > things... that is far from the case with you. You've been agonizing > about this issue for a very long time; if you finally decided that you > do not have AS, that would not be denial (especially since all of the > evaluations you have had thus far show the same thing, as well as the > test scores you reported on the AQ and such, et cetera). You should not > let the possibility that someone could accuse you of being in denial > about it play a role (especially since it has not happened yet). You > could think of any number of things that people could accuse you of > doing/thinking, and if you were to act on each of them, you might be > doing a lot of unpleasant things. > > >> Thanks again and sorry I'm so neurotic about this!! > > Hmmm... naah, too easy <g> LOL!!!!! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 > I'm not really sure either why women Aspies are harder to recognize. I did > read somewhere that girls perseverate about things that are more mainstream, > such as horses. Or that women in general are more socially adept, so that > it might follow that women Aspies might be more able to pass as normal. But > I don't know if the experts really know!!! It would be interesting to figure out what's going on. My intuition is, from watching TV shows on the subject, eye-contact is simply more common among females than it is among males. So an Aspie female would have a " male " level of eye-contact, while an Aspie male would have an " autistic " level of eye contact. There's also a certain seen-but-not-heard mentality. Men who shoot their mouths off are " taking a stand " or " voicing their opinion. " Women who do the same thing are " insolant bitches. " Gender roles probably play a significant part, here. I'm thinking the 10/1 ratio, rather than the 4/1 ratio, doesn't mean less Aspie women... just less of them with a diagnosis. > I've been on AS lists & forums for 2+ years now and still am no closer to > accepting myself, which of course is not the fault of the people on the > lists, but is my fault! I don't know why I have this blockage to acceptance > of myself! I just keep seeing everyone as better than me--whether in social > skills (NT's) or brains & imagination (Aspies, auties & some NT's as well). > Plus even most people with AS seem to get along better and have more friends > than I do, or at least as many as they want. It's normal... no one wants to be a fuck-up. The key, in my experience, is to sense more and think less. A low-ego or a high-ego is still an ego, just with a different altitude. Sensation is egoless. Venlafaxine helps me with that. It's also important to have a good self-image, including a good body image. The best product I've found for that is the " Self-Esteem Supercharger " from Learning Strategies Corporation. Their " Personal Celebration " series is good, too, as it has things you might not have realized, such as the fact that you are a valuable, worthy being who has an impact on the world around you. No one has to tell you that - it's true simply by your being alive. But, sometimes you can forget those simple truths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 > > Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 23:58:10 -0600 > To: <AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > > Subject: Re: Accepting my AS > I use the term metaphorically to say that an AC who can pass for NT has > passed the Turing Test - you've fooled the person you're communicating with > into thinking that you're essentially like them, as far as the structure of > your mind goes. Oh OK. That's what it seems I have done. Hey, I took something literally that wasn't meant to be!!!! I may be doing this more than I realize. I really think I'm literal-minded in a subtle way, and probably so are other Aspies. I doubt a lot of adult Aspies are continually misinterpreting common idioms like " pulling one's leg " ?? I'm definitely going to mention this to my doctor!!! > > I suppose this can work in reverse, too. If you're not autistic, you've > fooled me enough to not notice a lack of autism - keeping in mind the nature > of this group and that I'm missing all of the non-textual clues that would > point our your neurological condition. Hmmm! > > Since this list tends to be " autistics perseverating on autism, " and you're > perseverating on autism, you're definitely " fitting in. " It helps that > you're talking about yourself, rather than your children. There's something > vaguely insulting about a neurotypical parent perseverating about their > child's autism. It is as if many of them cannot separate the simply > annoying from the truly dangerous. E.g., it doesn't matter if your child > would rather STACK blocks than build cities with them, or would rather ALIGN > toy cars than go " zoom zoom " around the kitchen floor with them - but it > does matter if they are so fascinated by real cars that they walk out into > the street, oblivious to real danger, or if they throw their blocks at other > children, adults, or fragile objects. Yes, I always wonder why adults will try to stop their child from playing by lining things up or stacking things, or stop them from stimming in the home when it's not something that's harmful or even annoying. > > There's that whole " to do is to be " vs. " to be is to do " meme about what a > person *is.* Since in autism, as in life, you can't tell a person to NOT-BE > what they truly ARE, it's important that you inform the individual to not-do > only those things which are actually important to not-do. I hope this makes > sense - I'm sleep-deprived right now. > Yes, that makes perfect sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 > > Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 00:07:06 -0600 > To: <AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse > > Subject: Re: Accepting my AS > Kaiden wrote: > It would be interesting to figure out what's going on. My intuition is, > from watching TV shows on the subject, eye-contact is simply more common > among females than it is among males. So an Aspie female would have a > " male " level of eye-contact, while an Aspie male would have an " autistic " > level of eye contact. There's also a certain seen-but-not-heard mentality. > Men who shoot their mouths off are " taking a stand " or " voicing their > opinion. " Women who do the same thing are " insolant bitches. " Gender roles > probably play a significant part, here. I'm thinking the 10/1 ratio, rather > than the 4/1 ratio, doesn't mean less Aspie women... just less of them with > a diagnosis. I was reading something about eye contact in a book that was actually about social anxiety, and it was saying that people in authority will make eye contact at the beginning of their speaking in the conversation, then look away. They'll glance at the person speaking to them periodically while the person is talking. But the person not in authority will look more at the authority figure while talking to them and while the authority figure is talking. This may be something to do with gender roles as well, since until recently women were much less often in authority roles than men were. I would think though, that since women are expected to be the " social glue " and to be way more social and know what to do in social and etiquette-type situations more than men, that an Aspie woman would stand out way more than an Aspie man. But then there are other things to take into account as well, I'm sure..... > The key, in my experience, is > to sense more and think less. A low-ego or a high-ego is still an ego, just > with a different altitude. Sensation is egoless. Venlafaxine helps me with > that. What's velafaxine? >It's also important to have a good self-image, including a good body > image. The best product I've found for that is the " Self-Esteem > Supercharger " from Learning Strategies Corporation. Their " Personal > Celebration " series is good, too, as it has things you might not have > realized, such as the fact that you are a valuable, worthy being who has an > impact on the world around you. No one has to tell you that - it's true > simply by your being alive. But, sometimes you can forget those simple > truths. Those sound really interesting. My problem is, if I keep having failures constantly in social situations, I feel like a failure as well. I would occasionally like to have a success, evne though I know theoretically I shouldn't need to be validated in that way. Norah > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Hi, When I heard Dr. (of Oxford) speak at the MIND institute he said that Casein Free/Gluten Free diets had not been shown to help people with Asperger's (maybe he said High functioning autism, but I think he said AS). I don't think I have a reaction to either dairy or wheat. I have tried in the past to cut out both to see if I was allergic and if I would feel better, but I couldn't stick with it for one thing, and the day or two that I did stick with it I didn't notice a difference... I have read the anecdotes about parents of autistics kids saying that they saw a radical change in their kids, but I can't help but think it _could_ be a radical change in the parents who thought their kids were changing and started to be more gentle with them which brought about the real change in the child. Camille > > do all autistics have this reaction to casein? just > > wondering cause I can tolerate a lot of dairy... it doesn't make > > me hallucinate like some other autistcis acqunaintance of mine... > > No, not all autistics do. It's one of those things where there's > probably a higher-than-usual incidence of reactions, but not a > universal one. I know plenty of autistics who don't react to casein > at all. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Hi, Are you sure you guys aren't discussing lactose intolerance? That can cause some serious intestinal problems. Camille > > > If I drank that much eggnog at once I would be in big trouble! I had > > a small glass of " gourmet " eggnog a few days ago and found myself in > > the bathroom with severe cramps, feeling hot and sweaty and feeling > > like I was going to pass out. > > I get that reaction sometimes, but I have not noticed any correlation > between such events and any possible causative factor. Certainly there > is no correlation between consumption of dairy products and these events. > > > Kept yelling and DH > > Designated hitter? Bah. Real pitchers swing a bat. > > > came in and > > declared that my reaction was not normal and I should see a doctor. > > No kidding it's not normal-- imagine if it was. Egg nog would probably > be illegal if it were. > > > Yeah, just what I needed to hear in between cramps and feeling like I > > am going to faint. :-/ > > When I get this way, I get so weak that I have to lean on the sink as I > am seated on the toilet. I get that hot-cold feeling, the cold sweat, > and start to go into tunnel vision as I start to pass out. At least > once, I have lost consciousness. The pain is severe... but as soon as > the colon drops in pressure a bit, it eases. I have never seen a doctor > for this... it is acute, but short lived. I just ride it out. > > > I grabbed him around the waist so if I did faint I woudn't fall on > > the floor. He told me afterwards that he can't stand to see me suffer > > like that. > > Tell him to shut his eyes > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 > When I heard Dr. (of Oxford) speak at the MIND institute he > said that Casein Free/Gluten Free diets had not been shown to help > people with Asperger's (maybe he said High functioning autism, but > I think he said AS). I don't think which imaginary autism subtype one is said to fall into is the key to who it works for and who it doesn't -- Luke is one of the most enthusiastic promotors of GFCF there is. The people it works for are people who have intolerances or allergies to gluten and casein. (This holds true for non-autistic people, too -- I didn't have an allergy to things like wheat, but my non-autistic brother did.) I think that if he *did* say " HFA " or " Asperger's " , he was probably doing the usual thing -- finding one more way to claim that those of us who can speak up about autism " aren't sick, like the new autistics, " as one person flaming autistics.org said. (If that person had been able to see *anyone* who was working on autistics.org at that point, he might've changed his mind.) > I have read the anecdotes about parents of autistics kids saying > that they saw a radical change in their kids, but I can't help but > think it _could_ be a radical change in the parents who thought > their kids were changing and started to be more gentle with them > which brought about the real change in the child. If a person is unhealthy in any way it's going to affect things, autistic or not. Unfortunately some people have cause-and-effect completely screwed up. Last August, I could barely do *anything* before I shut down and started looking a whole lot more overtly autistic (by virtue of shutdown) than I normally do, and a good deal of the time was incapable of interaction or understanding anything around me. This was because of the aforementioned gallbladder issue. Take a malfunctioning organ out of my body and I function better in general. I have not heard yet that autism is caused by malfunctioning gallbladders, however, and I don't think it's caused by food intolerances/allergies, either. It's also not caused by getting the flu, even though I may act more overtly autistic when I have the flu. I do think certain physical things (and I'm not sure about that one in particular, not enough reliable data, too much hype) may be more common in autism, and that someone who's in pain or allergic or sick is going to function less well and fall back on less-energy-involving ways of dealing with the world (and for an autistic person those ways of dealing with the world look autistic), but that's different than saying that they cause autism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 > Are you sure you guys aren't discussing lactose intolerance? > That can cause some serious intestinal problems. It does sound a lot like how a friend described the Christmas she ate eggnog and cream of sauerkraut soup, and she's (normlaly only mildly) lactose-intolerant, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Kaiden wrote: >Yeah, I had that. I was told by a friend that I wasn't *violent* enough to >be autistic. Where did that idea (autistic = violent) come from? Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 amanda as a person whose ASD was easier to hide (even from me!) until I got this sick with the FMS, I wholeheartedly agree with you.... allergies, illness and all that is an " other than expected " event and therefore creates stress and therefore exacerabates our tendencies on the spectrum... for me the fact that everyone expects me to get better is also something that is a stressor, but now that I have begun to let go of that dream myself, I am better able to dealw ith my daily life of struggling with severe physical and mental health issues that result! and most of the time, the mental health issues are simply the exacerbated ASD tendencies I mentioned at least that is my persepctive now... makes me feel belonging instead of feelings of inadequacies and outcast by all of society... you guys have sure been busy! I've got 336 messages to go thru on this list alone today.... looking forwarding to the learning I will find in those posts. dani > > If a person is unhealthy in any way it's going to affect things, > autistic or not. Unfortunately some people have cause-and-effect > completely screwed up. Last August, I could barely do *anything* > before I shut down and started looking a whole lot more overtly > autistic (by virtue of shutdown) than I normally do, and a good deal > of the time was incapable of interaction or understanding anything > around me. This was because of the aforementioned gallbladder issue. > Take a malfunctioning organ out of my body and I function better in > general. I have not heard yet that autism is caused by malfunctioning > gallbladders, however, and I don't think it's caused by food > intolerances/allergies, either. It's also not caused by getting the > flu, even though I may act more overtly autistic when I have the flu. > > I do think certain physical things (and I'm not sure about that one in > particular, not enough reliable data, too much hype) may be more > common in autism, and that someone who's in pain or allergic or sick > is going to function less well and fall back on less-energy-involving > ways of dealing with the world (and for an autistic person those ways > of dealing with the world look autistic), but that's different than > saying that they cause autism. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 has she thot of hooking up with a compassion society in her area kaiden...?. medical marijuana was the only thing that keeps me going when my pain is that bad... the places here in my city are store front operations that sell products you don't have to smoke either... not legal, but an accepted part of the landscape .... just a thot dani Kaiden Fox wrote: > Right - I tend to be less meltdown-resistant when I'm fatigued, especially > if I have a headache. I have a suicidal friend who I *know* would be far > less suicidal if she wasn't in constant pain. She's in so much pain, I > don't even try to talk her out of it, I just thank her for not killing > herself because she's a friend and I'd miss her. > > Re: Accepting my AS > > > > I agree. Anyone in a lot of pain or sick is not going to function > as well > > as they would if they felt OK, whether they're autistic or neurotypical. > > They might be dysfunctional in different ways though, but still.... > > > > Norah > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 that's funny kaiden, if it were me in that sort of era I would probably be burned at the stake for my unwomanly ways, and belief in the alchemy! the wicked witch of Langford perhaps? this whole conversation about being lady like etc, is very funny to me as I am very strong in my speech and mannerisms and think of myself as more mascualine that femeinie in my mannerisms... I still think I am a tomboy altho I don't look like one anymore unless I dress that way on purpose, but I am nearly forty and just getting comfortable with my feminie side now, and that has taken alot of work on the part of NT girlfriends and my adoring partner.... (okay I still don' tbelieve him half hte time, but after about three years I stopped scoffing when he in complimentary, and sometimes even let it in...) you may also be confused to knwo that many men are attracted to my form of sexuality, BUT if they are NT, they keep going on looking for a partner (while sleeping with me on the weeeknds or whatever) because I am not waht they want... and noone ever knew why.... its my brain they couldn't hanndle,.... atracted to my energy and strength and yet not.... BTW that thing someone posted about eyecontact... I do exactly what is the eyecontact of a person in authority, so thanks for letting me know that is why so many people are offended by me.... that is a huge realization.. I knew eye contact was an issue, but not exactly if I could do anything to change it, as I didn't know what I was doing wrong... whew Kaiden Fox wrote: > Too late, I convey upon thee the title of Knight Autistic, and thou shalt > from this day forward be known as LADY DeGraf, Defender of the > Realm, > Drinker of the Heavy Cream, and Guardian of Cats. > > And by what power may I grant knighthood? > > Why, I am the Duke of Earl! > > Re: RE:Re: Accepting my AS > > > > This message from tikigalharkins@... arched across the cosmos: > > >As a female AC, I certainly was told things weren't > > > " ladylike " to mind what I say, to not look sloppy leaving home, you > name > > >it!! > > > > Same here... In fact, I still get comments about " being a lady " even > though > > I'm well into adulthood! My response has always been " yuck, I don't > want > > to be a lady! " :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 I love her last response to that asshole ! thanks for posting that clay! Clay wrote: > tikigal wrote: > > > Please read this & e mail me your alls opinions on this, > > OK?? It is something all too commonplace in todays work > > world which makes me puke. > > > http//:www.s-t.com/daily/07-96/07-26-96/c05ad067.htm > > ??? This URL didn't work, so I rearranged the semi-colon > to read: > http://www.s-t.com/daily/07-96/07-26-96/c05ad067.htm > > What I got then was an Ann Landers column about disability > benefits. Was that the thing you meant? > > Clay > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 > as a person whose ASD was easier to hide (even from me!) until I > got this sick with the FMS, I wholeheartedly agree with you.... I can understand that, I have CFS, which has a lot in common with FMS, and it's definitely affected things. > allergies, illness and all that is an " other than expected " event > and therefore creates stress and therefore exacerabates our > tendencies on the spectrum... Not to mention wipes out so much energy that the only possible conceivable way you can do almost anything is to do it the easiest-suited-to-our-neuorlogy (and therefore autistic-looking) way. > for me the fact that everyone expects me to get better is also > something that is a stressor, but now that I have begun to let go > of that dream myself, I am better able to dealw ith my daily life > of struggling with severe physical and mental health issues that > result! I do remember when I was first diagnosed (with CFS) and a lot of people around me wanted me to do all kinds of bizarre things and fad treatments and so forth to try to get me better. All I wanted was to be able to get around without falling down all the time, to be able to get through a day, and so forth. They saw this as " giving up " , while I saw it as living the best I could with what I had, and if I got better, great, and if I didn't, I wasn't going to sit around waiting for a miracle cure. My attitude really puzzled people, though -- they saw me as either being " brave and hopeful " (spending energy I didn't have looking for a cure) or " giving up and weak " (anything I did that wasn't directly related to finding a cure). I knew that a lot of the treatments for CFS aren't known, particularly because of the garbage-can nature of the diagnosis (I think it's a catch-all category for a number of severe-fatigue-and-malaise-causing probably-immune-system-related diseases that haven't been discovered yet), and I knew that a lot of them could harm me. I weighed my options and decided that using mobility aids to get around would be a more useful use of my time than being a guinea pig for a number of unproven treatments. I tried to treat any *individual* health problems that might be making it worse (chronic pain, GERD, and that gallbladder thing), and deal with anything else that could drain energy (PTSD), but I wasn't going to start throwing random chemicals in my body to attack something that nobody even knew what it was. (I'd already been through years of random chemicals in the psych system and was still detoxing from those.) However, while I saw canes/walkers/wheelchairs as ways of getting around that meant I could go farther, not fall over, and not crash for 3 days, those around me in the offline world saw them as giving up at best, malingering or " seriously warped mental problems " at worst. (By the way, I think even if I were as depressed and generally screwed up as some people thought I was, if it meant that I couldn't get around, and if those mobility aids could help me get around, I don't understand why I'd need them any less than someone who would need them for more obviously physical reasons. But their assessments were faulty in any case; I had some serious emotional problems but CFS wasn't one of them.) So essentially I had to race my dad in a parking lot and win in order to convince him that using a wheelchair wasn't " giving up " . Which seems really silly, because I'd have thought it would be obvious to him that if I was going out at all and coming back without collapsing then this was actually an improvement in my life. So yes, the pressure other people can put on you to not only " get better " , but " get better " in the ways *they* think are better (adapting your life around functioning with a chronic illness is not allowed because it's " admitting defeat " , for instance, and admitting that it won't necessarily go away just because you really want it to), can be really intense and annoying. It's not that I don't want to get better, but that I know that at the moment research on this is so flimsy that it would be a waste of my time to spend all of my time trying out all the latest trends in treatment. Logically, it makes more sense to adapt my life, treat anything I *can* treat, and wait till there's more solid information on what's going on with me before I run off chasing hype. So my priority in life is living, not necessarily having my body in a particular state of " perfection " (although I prefer it to be in the most comfortable state possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Well, you DID turn me into a newt. (i got better, though). Re: RE:Re: Accepting my AS > that's funny kaiden, > > if it were me in that sort of era I would probably be burned at the > stake for my unwomanly ways, and belief in the alchemy! > > the wicked witch of Langford perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Kaiden wrote: >Well, you DID turn me into a newt. >(i got better, though). Huh?? There's nothing better than a newt, Kaiden. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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