Re: [Time+

[Guest guest]

There are parts of the brain that are unaware of (or not interested in) time as a dimension. There are parts that not only are aware but are fine-tuned by natural selection to be aware of time, and to consider the passing of time significant. It would be impossible to sequence a series of actions, to play a piece of music, or have a coherent conversation without the involvement of time

Right on!

Nature teaches us the importance of time in the manifest world. For heaven's sake, where wld seasons be, flowers blooming, sunrise, tides, phases of the moon! Consider the obvious!!

Greg's quote ab the centerpt is so apt. Because a point has no dimension n thus our Divine Guest, Jung's Self, is where we connect to the timeless - beyond time/space.. That's logical. Perhaps we get a taste of this in dreams wh free us fr normal time n yet seem to have a time quality of their own Jung expressed it so well in the BBC interview wh he was asked if he feared death. He answ that no, bec he wasn't going anywhere he hadn't always been. [i am paraphrasing,] but he wrote that part of us never fully incarnates but remains in another dimension.

..I have only experienced the actual dying of someone dear to me three times. On each occasion I had an acute awareness of the river of time bearing them away. The Navy Hymn. And the 4 births that I was present at, delivering my own children, sort of 'stopped the clock'! One minute they were invisible n the next TA-DAH! a whole new being. Awesome events, birth/death.

Thank goodness the universe runs on time even if our consc is relative to it: impatience at waiting or not wanting a glorious moment to end.

Physical orgasm is taste of the bliss of union w/the Beloved [Divine Guest] known as satori. Maslow? called it a 'peak experience'. Think ab it.........

Zen counsels "The mountan is there.

The mountain disappears. .

The mountain reappears.

Cut wood and carry water.

The secret is ecstasy - ex-stasis - out of [normal]state Mebbe review the Yeats' poem.....

I have given myself a treat. I now have a set of Bose headphones, as I am getting a bit deaf n have to listen to CD's, lectures, etc. But I got a disk of Beethoven's 'Missa Solemnis', which he wrote after he had turned completely deaf himself. I find it such a powerful experience having it go straight into my soul that I can only do it a bit at a time. I can only imagine the level of grandeur and ecstasy that he must have been in. As I only leave my home for a short walk evday, I seem to live a fair amount of time pursuing lama-lama interests healthily interrupted by domestic endeavors, secretarial demands, etc. Finding the sacred in the commonplace. I dumb myself down with news on TV wh I watch dutifully with much gravitas n soak my feet while I watch an idiotic soap opera n make shopping lists etc. But it sort of keeps me in touch w/wh peop are wearing, n the archetypal characters n situations. In short, I try to balance the sublime n the ridiculous. God forbid, I become too serious or take myself too seriously! But all the time, "I am aware.." that my time is running short. I have discov over the years that Scorpios feel guilty if they're not feeling guilty ab something! With me it is the abyss of 'having not done the things we ought to have done"! Sigh......

"The secret of happiness is really quite simple. It's to know when you are happy!

love

ao

[Guest guest]

>"Time" is just another dimension of eternal pleroma, one which we simply >happen to "think" along.>Everything possible exists - always has existed, always will exist. There >is actually no other way to "create" a universe.

That's the thing about time and about duality in general. If we can maintain the tension of opposites we can get away from the either/or and into the both/and where anything is possible, time or no-time, and at the same time.

Blissings,

Sam

If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking. -- Denis WaitleyIt is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- AristotleThe goal of an argument should be progress, not victory. -- Author unknownAccept complete responsibility both for understanding and for being understood. -- He's a blockhead who wants a proof of what he can't perceive; And he's a fool who tries to make such a blockhead believe. -- Blake

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

I haven't the energy to question you or on the very obvious way the mind considers time. I an not important enough or wise enough to think this idea up. The ancient Greeks, Parmenides for example said :

"Nor was it ever, nor will it ever be. For Now it is, all at once."Need I quote the Buddhists:

"You have only to understand that time has no existence", Nicolas of Cusa:

"all temporal succession coincides in one and the same eternal Now, there is nothing past and future."

Rum and Islam:Thus a true Sufi is called 'son of the Moment' he is ..not of time...the past and the future and time past and future and time without do not exist"

Schroediger: "The present is the only thing which has no end"

"Now that the insight that the real world has "the whole of its existence simultaneously, and that is the nature of eternity"-that insight leads directly to what is perhaps the most serious indictment of reason's incompetence to comprehend reality."

"To put it bluntly, thought proceeds in a line while the real word does not.This inescapable limitation is built into the very structure of thought"

"Whyte,Mc Cluhan,Bateson, Lilly, Watts and Wiel all pointed this out. Thought is sequential, successive, one dimensional, while the real world presents itself as simultaneous."

This line of successive bits of narrowed attention, this "line" which thought itself conjures up, is nothing other than time. In other words time is nothing more or less than thoughts' successive way of viewing the world. By habitual viewing nature in this linear way, successive, temporal fashion, we soon arrive at the "obvious " conclusion that nature herself proceeds in this line from past to future, from cause and effect, from before to after, from yesterday--completely ignoring the fact that this supposed linearity of nature is entirely a product of the way we view it. But then, to a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail."

"Nature, however does not proceed in a line- it happens simultaneously--everywhere at once....."

Oh, here is Wittenstein: "eternity is not everlasting temporal duration, but timelessness. Just as infinity is not big nor small, but sizeless, so eternity is not everlasting time, nor a split fraction

of a second-rather it is timeless, a moment without date or duration- existing in its entirety right now. This present moment, since it knows neither past nor future is itself timeless., and that which is timeless is eternal.Thus "eternal belongs to those who live in the present."

note, Accordingly,time and space can not be abolished because they do not exist. Any evidence of the past exists only in the present, and any reason to believe in the future also only exists in the present.

We live in a world of symbols which try to cover up these truths. This is purely a metaphorical description of a state of affairs that already exists. This is not an analytical description of the things "should" be.

my sources:

"The Spectrum of Consciousness", Ken Wilber

" The Power of Now, Eckart Tolle

sorry my sources are all from two books, but I assure you I have quite a few others in which there say the same. I am not feeling well enough to go hunting through all my books.

Alice: "For heaven's sake, where wld seasons be, flowers blooming, sunrise, tides, phases of the moon! Consider the obvious!!

and:

Thank goodness the universe runs on time even if our consc is relative to it: impatience at waiting or not wanting a glorious moment to end..

Well, there goes a well thought out present understanding by many modern philosophers, astronomers, physicist, not to mention those who think spiritually in a different way that you.

That is about as real a dismissal of my notions put in several posts as it could be.

Do I look that stupid, that I would lay myself open to having only to look at the moon to see how ridiculous I am?

Is it the slightest way possible that levels of consciousness, as the author states, has anything to do with this disagreement. I am not claiming it for myself ( that would cost me another apology for pride) but for the people who feel this is the right approach?

Most of the scientific hullabaloo of the last century centered around this. before, perhaps only very wise men intuited it. Now it is around for anyone to see. Whether one accepts this is up to the individual, but please don't dismiss me, and hundreds of others whose understanding of nature, time, space is different than the one we were all taught so long ago.

The concept of a non dual world and the concept of time here are as much of daily living to me than a laboratory, library, or astronomy's tools.To me personally, living in the real world all this points me to the conclusion that I and the universe never have been nor will be separate.

The other part of this world view is too long to explain to anyone anyway since it is so "obvious I am wrong, but it deals with a non dual world.

I also know how to "watch" the clock in the every day world, how to look at the moon and the winter snow and my gray hair,but within myself I understand that things are not always as they seem to my eye. I see nature differently now, and I am trying to live in the Now..which is all there is.....to me and one or two other idiots.I am not wedded to this way of thinking, because i still revert easily to old patterns, but I am working on it. I am also trying very hard to separate me personally from the dismissal of the ideas i posted.

My mistake was in bringing it up.And yes, at first identifying myself with the whole idea. But even I have moments of lucidity. I am not angry because I have been hurt.( it would be very easy to be) As long as everyone is so convinced that thoughts are the most important of all creators,and create the "real" and not "illusion" nothing from many scientific notions of the present will ever be given house room. Please, everyone who thinks we can think ourselves in a new better world, ignore anything intuition says, authorities say, and proceed with only rationality into the future.How about forming another committee to"study" the subject.( my sarcasm is showing, I am afraid. Curing myself of that will be another project of the next life.

Here's another gem I intend to take inward, to get to this state""

" Nobody can have an argument with you, no matter how hard he or she tries You cannot have an argument with a fully conscious person" (I can always hope to become) An argument implies identification with your mind and a mental position as well as resistance and reaction to the other person's position.. The result is that the polar opposites become mutually energized. These are the mechanics of unconsciousness. You can make your point clearly and firmly, but there will be no reactive

force behind it,no defense no attack So don't turn it into a drama. When you are fully conscious, you cease to be in conflict" Tolle,op.cit.p182

This is my hope

You all give me plenty to practice on.

With love,

Toni

Re: [Time+

There are parts of the brain that are unaware of (or not interested in) time as a dimension. There are parts that not only are aware but are fine-tuned by natural selection to be aware of time, and to consider the passing of time significant. It would be impossible to sequence a series of actions, to play a piece of music, or have a coherent conversation without the involvement of time

Right on!

Nature teaches us the importance of time in the manifest world. For heaven's sake, where wld seasons be, flowers blooming, sunrise, tides, phases of the moon! Consider the obvious!!

Greg's quote ab the centerpt is so apt. Because a point has no dimension n thus our Divine Guest, Jung's Self, is where we connect to the timeless - beyond time/space.. That's logical. Perhaps we get a taste of this in dreams wh free us fr normal time n yet seem to have a time quality of their own Jung expressed it so well in the BBC interview wh he was asked if he feared death. He answ that no, bec he wasn't going anywhere he hadn't always been. [i am paraphrasing,] but he wrote that part of us never fully incarnates but remains in another dimension.

..I have only experienced the actual dying of someone dear to me three times. On each occasion I had an acute awareness of the river of time bearing them away. The Navy Hymn. And the 4 births that I was present at, delivering my own children, sort of 'stopped the clock'! One minute they were invisible n the next TA-DAH! a whole new being. Awesome events, birth/death.

Thank goodness the universe runs on time even if our consc is relative to it: impatience at waiting or not wanting a glorious moment to end.

Physical orgasm is taste of the bliss of union w/the Beloved [Divine Guest] known as satori. Maslow? called it a 'peak experience'. Think ab it.........

Zen counsels "The mountan is there.

The mountain disappears. .

The mountain reappears.

Cut wood and carry water.

The secret is ecstasy - ex-stasis - out of [normal]state Mebbe review the Yeats' poem.....

I have given myself a treat. I now have a set of Bose headphones, as I am getting a bit deaf n have to listen to CD's, lectures, etc. But I got a disk of Beethoven's 'Missa Solemnis', which he wrote after he had turned completely deaf himself. I find it such a powerful experience having it go straight into my soul that I can only do it a bit at a time. I can only imagine the level of grandeur and ecstasy that he must have been in. As I only leave my home for a short walk evday, I seem to live a fair amount of time pursuing lama-lama interests healthily interrupted by domestic endeavors, secretarial demands, etc. Finding the sacred in the commonplace. I dumb myself down with news on TV wh I watch dutifully with much gravitas n soak my feet while I watch an idiotic soap opera n make shopping lists etc. But it sort of keeps me in touch w/wh peop are wearing, n the archetypal characters n situations. In short, I try to balance the sublime n the ridiculous. God forbid, I become too serious or take myself too seriously! But all the time, "I am aware.." that my time is running short. I have discov over the years that Scorpios feel guilty if they're not feeling guilty ab something! With me it is the abyss of 'having not done the things we ought to have done"! Sigh......

"The secret of happiness is really quite simple. It's to know when you are happy!

love

ao

[Guest guest]

Well, there goes a well thought out present understanding by many modern philosophers, astronomers, physicist, not to mention those who think spiritually in a different way that you.

Dinna get yr knickers in a twist, Toni! I have tried over n over to explain that the ego is the part of us subject to the passing of time n that the Self[Div Guest] at the centerpt is the part of us that surpasses the illusion of time.

It is a paradox - the wise u quote are quite right - they are at the center - but the ego still has to catch a train n watch a sunset, etc.

So please, do not judge me! I agree at one level n try to clarify at anpther.

The ego circumambulates the center in time......commonsense!

late, love

ao

[Guest guest]

Dear Toni, at 01:53 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

> " This line of successive bits of narrowed attention, this " line " which

>thought itself conjures up, is nothing other than time. In other words

>time is nothing more or less than thoughts' successive way of viewing the

>world. By habitual viewing nature in this linear way, successive, temporal

>fashion, we soon arrive at the " obvious " conclusion that nature herself

>proceeds in this line from past to future, from cause and effect, from

>before to after, from yesterday--completely ignoring the fact that this

>supposed linearity of nature is entirely a product of the way we view it.

>But then, to a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. "

Can you tell me the source of the quote you used above?

It is a most lucid expression of the basic idea.

And- btw - for all those unable to image beyond the illusion,

scientifically this is the facts.

" Time " is just another dimension of eternal pleroma, one which we simply

happen to " think " along.

Everything possible exists - always has existed, always will exist. There

is actually no other way to " create " a universe.

Good one, Toni.

love,

[Guest guest]

Well, there goes a well thought out present understanding by many modern philosophers, astronomers, physicist, not to mention those who think spiritually in a different way that you.

Dinna get yr knickers in a twist, Toni! I have tried over n over to explain that the ego is the part of us subject to the passing of time n that the Self[Div Guest] at the centerpt is the part of us that surpasses the illusion of time.

It is a paradox - the wise u quote are quite right - they are at the center - but the ego still has to catch a train n watch a sunset, etc.

So please, do not judge me! I agree at one level n try to clarify at anpther.

The ego circumambulates the center in time......commonsense!

late, love

ao

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

If I misunderstood, I am sorry, I just read what was on the page:

"Right On" in defense of the "opponent" in this discussion ()which degenerated into an argument.

Also,I don't always have you saying such things to me as:

". For heaven's sake, where wld seasons be, flowers blooming, sunrise, tides, phases of the moon! Consider the obvious!!"

In fact I did.In that post.

It was I who felt judged. And your answer patting on the back for "dissing" my understanding of NOW made be temporarily feel that way.

Ok, fini. I do get my knickers in a twist and you did sound judgmental to me. Though that is no reason for me to do the same.

There should and is, I think, peace between us

I do not always put everything I think into Jungian terms because I automatically think that way.

But I did not and do not see a split in this.If it is to be so, then I would say the self understands it correctly and the ego dismisses what it wishes to ignore. I don't think in terms of "Divine Guest" having always had a problem with it myself, I think "Self" and I come right out and say G-d is in me and I am in G-d since He is Existence which is the All. I also don't much use the" center" in my musing except when I doodle with mandalas of which i seem to do a lot as i find it very relaxing nowadays. It is easy to meditate on the center then.

I think you and I get hung up on different ways to say the same thing. I have mentioned it before.

I am in almost all of my present reading revolving around the spiritual aspect of how I see Reality, and How I imagine we are all One. If that is so, it isn't just time that has to go...as an illusion, but also space as I am trying to assimilate my world view. There are momentary glimpses of Eternity.

To anyone else, I may be completely off the wall, but living in the Now is what I am trying to do, because it is Truth to me, the eternal Now is right here right now. It overwhelms me, and my psyche needs some adjustment, to paying attention to that part of the psyche that Jung said was there that we did not put in. Meditation and Contemplation supply that.And so do some special books.

I still use a watch, and I do observe nature, but it too is in the NOW, simultaneously....or so I see it.I am also very aware as are you, that death approaches which the ego would dearly love to ignore and defend against. I can translate that back into my world view easily. It causes me no conflict.

Living in the now which is hard for me to do all the time involves me in thinking differently in what goes on in this whirling around world and gives me the perspective I need while processing thoughts sequentially..I do not however think we cannot get to the stage of consciousness where timelessness prevails. Not in just dreams , and not I think just in thinking about death,but in meditation and especially contemplation it happens,now, as i mentioned above.( especially in the use of centering prayer)

I am still working with this( Now) and myself and never tried to explain this so everyone would jump on the bandwagon. I do however not get totally upset about world events, nor do I have the hubris to think I can change human nature on this earth...certainly not by writing essays on the subject of what "should" be done. I wrote back and forth to on this very point. I knew I wouldn't change his or anyone else's way of thinking, but it is not a bad thing to realize that there are other ways than the purely rational approach. And yes, sometime my emotions start to get in the way.

And I don't know much but I do disagree as much as I can without knowledge deeper than I have, that the universe runs on time.You say:

"Thank goodness the universe runs on time even if our consc is relative to it: impatience at waiting or not wanting a glorious moment to end."

Since neither of us really knows all opinions should be welcome,no?

And is it possible to move from more than one level just to one in consciousness? I am a beginner at all this, but this is how I imagine it as I go along.

Love can be said in many dialects, but it is still love.

Toni

Re: Re: [Time+

Well, there goes a well thought out present understanding by many modern philosophers, astronomers, physicist, not to mention those who think spiritually in a different way that you.

Dinna get yr knickers in a twist, Toni! I have tried over n over to explain that the ego is the part of us subject to the passing of time n that the Self[Div Guest] at the centerpt is the part of us that surpasses the illusion of time.

It is a paradox - the wise u quote are quite right - they are at the center - but the ego still has to catch a train n watch a sunset, etc.

So please, do not judge me! I agree at one level n try to clarify at anpther.

The ego circumambulates the center in time......commonsense!

late, love

ao

[Guest guest]

It was I who felt judged. And your answer patting on the back for "dissing" my understanding of NOW made be temporarily feel that way

There's the prob! My praising M had nothing to do with judging you - I was addressing the ISSUE! Mebbe we all tend to be hypersensitive in cyberspace, but feeling types take almost evthing personally! and I as an ambivert thinking/feeling 50/50, was in an ad rem modality!

In general, my agreeing w/someone shld never be taken as a putdown of someone else in a personal way. I really do endeavor to address the ideas presented. I find the concept that it is the ego that lives in time makes sense.. Time cannot be denied in the manifest world.

The NOW is always n thus is a glimpse into eternity. I experience it especially wh I stop to say grace, all by myself, to share the moment w/my Div Guest [Jung's Self]. In that moment I truly n emotionally find the sacred in the commonplace. I find that grace is a double word - in saying it we receive it.

The secret of happiness is to know when you are happy. So frequently, my darling Polar Bear or I, wld just stop n say 'You know what? I'm happy!', which wld signal an occasion for a hug n a kiss. Sigh.

Toni, I use the term DG for sev reasons. Not evbody understands Self in Jung's terms n so it gets mixed up with selfishness, solipsism etc. i.e. ego. As the mystics in other disciplines have different words for the SAME concept [atma. etc.] n I have conversations w/people of diff faiths, I find DG gives a common clarity. For you, Toni, it might be Christ w/in, but then some wld take that to mean only Christians cn experience this wh is far fr the truth.

Here is a poem to clear the moment:

-------------------------------------------------

Matins

It is raining.

Pink hollyhocks press at our kitchen window

doubled by Degas -

each filled and frilled flower

draws tints of dance

gathers intensity

to deeper knots of light.

I wait for you, stunned

by a hummingbird landing

on a stem of air

as drops drip

from bright leaf to green bud to leaf below

by a purling silence

and the flaunting flutter

of rosy wet whimsy

now within myself as well

truly it is too much for prayer!

Enough to read the round matutinal rubrics

illumined on this page of glass

like the hovering winged emerald

I, too, sip the sweet and holy word of Presence.

you come in smiling. I give and get a kiss.

I pour hot coffee

you break toast

together we open the missal of morning

to a grace

blurred by bliss.

a.o.howell

---------------------------------

love n appreciation to all!

ao

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

The quote is from Ken Wilber " the Spectrum of Consciousness " page 84.

Thanks for proving me, not a complete idiot. I was just commenting on how I

was attempting to live in the Now, which started all this thread.

much love,

Ton

Re: Re: [Time+

> Dear Toni, at 01:53 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

>

>> " This line of successive bits of narrowed attention, this " line " which

>>thought itself conjures up, is nothing other than time. In other words

>>time is nothing more or less than thoughts' successive way of viewing the

>>world. By habitual viewing nature in this linear way, successive, temporal

>>fashion, we soon arrive at the " obvious " conclusion that nature herself

>>proceeds in this line from past to future, from cause and effect, from

>>before to after, from yesterday--completely ignoring the fact that this

>>supposed linearity of nature is entirely a product of the way we view it.

>>But then, to a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. "

>

> Can you tell me the source of the quote you used above?

>

> It is a most lucid expression of the basic idea.

>

> And- btw - for all those unable to image beyond the illusion,

> scientifically this is the facts.

> " Time " is just another dimension of eternal pleroma, one which we simply

> happen to " think " along.

> Everything possible exists - always has existed, always will exist. There

> is actually no other way to " create " a universe.

>

> Good one, Toni.

>

> love,

[Guest guest]

Amazing init! That we all can get so so caught up in our own ways as not to be

able to

move out!

I wonder if there should be more reliance on the Instinctive - the here and now

of the

sensation and 'float' rather than dig with the knowing?

This is not idle spectulation either!

F.

> In a message dated 2/22/2006 12:54:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> Vienna19311@... writes:

>

> Well, there goes a well thought out present understanding by many

> modern philosophers, astronomers, physicist, not to mention those who

> think spiritually in a different way that you.

>

>

>

> Dinna get yr knickers in a twist, Toni! I have tried over n over to

> explain that the ego is the part of us subject to the passing of time

> n that the Self[Div Guest] at the centerpt is the part of us that

> surpasses the illusion of time.

>

> It is a paradox - the wise u quote are quite right - they are at the

> center - but the ego still has to catch a train n watch a sunset,

> etc.

>

> So please, do not judge me! I agree at one level n try to clarify at

> anpther.

>

> The ego circumambulates the center in time......commonsense!

>

> late, love

>

> ao

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

I love you.

Will the day ever come ( not in this lifetime) when i won't be so hypersensitive, no? Do I make all kinds of resolutions to weaken the ego, yes, does it work, usually not, other times the grace of G-d shines through. Daily, I surrender and I mean every syllable of it.totally and as completely as is possible for me..Then, I suddenly think how 'right" I am on some dumb point, or I suddenly pride myself in understanding something I have been musing on.and there you are! Often it is an extra pat on the back when I see some progress in myself. ( its my thoughts which I need to be more responsible for, and for years that never occurred to me...to be responsible for those things that fly through , sometimes get stopped and embroidered upon.) Naturally it happens here on the lists most of all...only because ego is not a big problem in my daily life.Only two loves in my space.I know i sometimes seem as if i had all the answers...it is foolishness for anyone who knows me to think that. I have just found, i really don't need most of those questions i used to have answered. And in my firmness about my experiences, it seems often that standing in the pulpit...soapbox is where I am me.

This is as true for Ray and me:

"

The secret of happiness is to know when you are happy. So frequently, my darling Polar Bear or I, wld just stop n say 'You know what? I'm happy!', which wld signal an occasion for a hug n a kiss. Sigh."

I say it at least once,during the day, just looking at him is enough. He still does that to me! Your Polar Bear said it, my Ray usually just smiles...sometimes he says how lucky we are.

I love the phrase; "missal of morning"

I also come to those moment of utter speechlessness, when the world stops and one fears that the fullness of the cup will overflow.Sometimes, I just don't know what to do with myself. Speaking to the One doesn't seem enough...maybe just looking at Him.( How does one look at "nothing"" no thing", but it does seem possible, maybe with eyes of love?")

I cannot write so much I wish I could, there is no one I can be that open with, and the journal is the only outlet except moments of quiet with All that is.

When I get into this "hit him over the head" bits of urges, it is because i am so happy and at peace and I want to show someone else the secret I learned. It never turns out that way...and instead I am accused of every sin of hubris under the sun. As if I could take credit for G-d's many graces. Then there are the times when I "know" HA I am right, and that little old lady in tennis shoes wants others to think how wise she is.

.. When i see myself like that i do realize what i am up to, thank G-d. Usually, about responses to me or my thoughts, I remember the literature and just shrug, but sometimes I latch on for dear life,to persuade, to tell, because the simple has been made too complicated or the answer to all of Life is thought to be up to us. " If we only...." And then I go on and on and on.

By the way, it isn't Christ within, it is G-d, the All, the One. Always has been with me, regardless of what church, or religion I belonged to.One of the reasons I could not say the creed.( too complicated to get into)This, in answer to:

"For you, Toni, it might be Christ w/in, but then some wld take that to mean only Christians cn experience this wh is far fr the truth."

love the poem. Yes, it speaks to me. Thanks

So, I won't.

with love( I long ago put you in my basket, you know)

Toni

Re: Re: [Time+

It was I who felt judged. And your answer patting on the back for "dissing" my understanding of NOW made be temporarily feel that way

There's the prob! My praising M had nothing to do with judging you - I was addressing the ISSUE! Mebbe we all tend to be hypersensitive in cyberspace, but feeling types take almost evthing personally! and I as an ambivert thinking/feeling 50/50, was in an ad rem modality!

In general, my agreeing w/someone shld never be taken as a putdown of someone else in a personal way. I really do endeavor to address the ideas presented. I find the concept that it is the ego that lives in time makes sense.. Time cannot be denied in the manifest world.

The NOW is always n thus is a glimpse into eternity. I experience it especially wh I stop to say grace, all by myself, to share the moment w/my Div Guest [Jung's Self]. In that moment I truly n emotionally find the sacred in the commonplace. I find that grace is a double word - in saying it we receive it.

The secret of happiness is to know when you are happy. So frequently, my darling Polar Bear or I, wld just stop n say 'You know what? I'm happy!', which wld signal an occasion for a hug n a kiss. Sigh.

Toni, I use the term DG for sev reasons. Not evbody understands Self in Jung's terms n so it gets mixed up with selfishness, solipsism etc. i.e. ego. As the mystics in other disciplines have different words for the SAME concept [atma. etc.] n I have conversations w/people of diff faiths, I find DG gives a common clarity. For you, Toni, it might be Christ w/in, but then some wld take that to mean only Christians cn experience this wh is far fr the truth.

Here is a poem to clear the moment:

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Matins

It is raining.

Pink hollyhocks press at our kitchen window

doubled by Degas -

each filled and frilled flower

draws tints of dance

gathers intensity

to deeper knots of light.

I wait for you, stunned

by a hummingbird landing

on a stem of air

as drops drip

from bright leaf to green bud to leaf below

by a purling silence

and the flaunting flutter

of rosy wet whimsy

now within myself as well

truly it is too much for prayer!

Enough to read the round matutinal rubrics

illumined on this page of glass

like the hovering winged emerald

I, too, sip the sweet and holy word of Presence.

you come in smiling. I give and get a kiss.

I pour hot coffee

you break toast

together we open the missal of morning

to a grace

blurred by bliss.

a.o.howell

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love n appreciation to all!

ao