Re: the to and fro... of it..

[Guest guest]

Sam et al,

I observe myself moving from a place of anxiousness about using the remaining time here on this Earth in a manner most useful, consistent with todate. Pondering thus, I observe within, the energy is moving to accepting my lot and utilising it all the more. I note the terrible difficulty of manoeuvring like Odysseus between Charybdis and Scylla- the tense neurosis and the abdication of Self to psychosis. We indeed are many- a boat load, each making their way back to their own Ithaca. I have been allotted to do that which I love (to do) and have the permission to love doing it. So I paint, have taken up Photography and carry on with my healing work as a Psychotherapist. The notion of worship is not confined to formal religion of any kind, and seeing none of the Archetypes of any existing religion has presented itself I am left feed to some degree, from Bible thumping, born again notions, and needing to contort my body to suit some ancient doctrine in order to centre down or whatever.

The desire to persuade through rational does not consume me either. So to settle in to a way of life which needs must include connecting- expressing through doing- and seeking that the Odysseus way through life must continue to eventually meeting the Swine herdsman alone.

Like Odysseus, my Guide is not of my choosing, it chose me. No goddess of war, or wise one for me! But Sure! Will have to settle for the protector of the traveller and guide of the dead., Mmmmm... Like I said, not of my choosing.

Must find out the name of he god of argument! Or is she the goddess of winning hearts and minds? The god/dess of persuasion maybe...or even the god of proper-

gander. This quality may simply be one of the many who surround Aires. Promulgate should be his name- whos etymology is doubtful (significantly!) He is indeed the Gobshiit of the gods! And all too evident......

F.

> Toni says:

> >>As I said then, I will say again, we both have too much ego

> showing,

> don't you see that?<<

>

> --I don't think I show too much ego. Usually, I just say what I

> think about an issue, without making any claims about myself. But if

> you can be specific and point out an instance where you think I am

> showing too much ego, I'll take a look.

>

> >>I wasn't worried about being judged by you...you always tell me

> >>anyway, just exactly what you think of me.<<

>

> --You often react as though you are afraid you will be judged or

> your feelings and subjective experience dismissed. So if a thinking

> type (I'm bipolar thinking/feeling but probably more on the thinking

> side in text online) disagrees with a statement you make on any

> subject, you feel it as an attack on your experience of the world. I

> don't mean to tell you what your problem is, but it's pretty

> glaring, and it's resulted in you dismissing my views, even implying

> that I'm foolish, uneducated or ignorant. So when that happens, I

> point it out. I hope I'm gentle enough about that, without being an

> " enabler " .

>

> >>I am not complaining about being judged by you at all<<

>

> --Not now, but you acted in such a way earlier. If you had said,

> " , I feel judged by what you're saying here, is that what you

> mean to do? " I could have responded openly and without further

> confusion. Less helpful to say things like, " Every educated person

> knows X, surely you don't believe X, do you? " Which are basically

> passive-aggressive and belittling, and people tend to make them only

> when they are afraid of being belittled or dismissed.

>

> >>I have survived being judged by experts...and I have the black and

> blue marks to prove it.<<

>

> --If they were experts, they wouldn't beat you up. They'd just tell

> you what your complexes are doing, at least when they are affected.

> I got the sense earlier that you had been judged somewhat by

> thinking types, and that you saw me as a one-sided thinking type,

> judging you. The problem is, your reaction to thinking types

> involves a lot of judgment, sometimes with appeals to authority, as

> opposed to a feeling-level response like, " I feel dismissed " . A

> feeling response would be more productive, but it's difficult for

> human beings in general to respond with natural feeling when they

> are in a one-down position, even if they really aren't being

> oppressed. A feeling type might feel deeply wounded by thinking, not

> by a person's thoughts, but by the fact that someone is in thinking

> mode at all.

>

> >>Give it up . Stepping on my toes when you think I stepped on

> >>yours is neither mature, nor likely to have a good effect on what

> >>you said.<<

>

> --It's interesting how you turn things around here. You were not the

> instigator, but in your mind you must have been. My responses to you

> address an issue you bring up, they do not belittle or attack you.

> Your responses to me tend to be more personal, and each time, you

> say things like, " The world isn't all about intellect! " as if I ever

> said it was. It's hard for me not to conclude that you're lashing

> out at me because you feel your own views are dismissed when I give

> my own. What I say about time has nothing to do with you personally,

> and there's no reason to dismiss my views by appealing to the

> authority of scientists or ancient teachers. I'm well aware of how

> scientists and mystics experience the world, and you don't have to

> use their " authority " as weapons. Authority isn't something I'm

> interested in, and if every scientist in the world said something I

> disagreed with, I'd have no problem disagreeing. But in my

> experience, your portrayal of what scientists think about time was

> not accurate, and my disagreement with you was NOT a denial of your

> own personal experience of time. You reacted as if it were.

>

> >>Give it up . Having you say you like me strikes a funny note

> with me.And you hold no grudge?<<

>

> --No, I hold no grudge. If you misrepresent something I say, or

> misrepresent me as a person, of course I'll say something. I do like

> you as a person. You have a hell of a complex, but that's not

> personal. It would be nice just to get an apology rather than an

> argument, but all I can do is ask. If you cannot see yourself as the

> instigator of a problem but only a victim, I cannot make you. But I

> think you've been around the merry-go-round enough times that I

> don't have to explain your complexes to you.

>

> >> I must say though, either way, I will try to stick to my

> intention not to involve myself in discussions that can go no where

> since we are so very different in outlook.<<

>

> --Where are you expecting a discussion to " go " exactly? Is it really

> not worth having a discussion if there's a point of disagreement?

> Removing yourself entirely from the fray might seem self-protective,

> but I'd recommend just continuing these kinds of discussions until

> you learn to engage in them with calmness and without lashing out.

> You will get dragged into them by your complexes either way. Saving

> face isn't the goal, so much as learning to integrate your thinking

> and feeling so that thinking types don't push your buttons.

>

> >>I am not angry, I am not hurt, and you should have read the post I

> sent in reply to

> your bombasting.<<

>

> --Nice little barb there, " bombasting " . I was asking for a little

> consideration. Hardly bombast. Do you see me as some pompous

> intellectual? If so, not everyone sees me that way, and I don't

> think it would be a fair portrayal of what I do.

>

> >>Please do not assume you know me. I am not my posts anymore than

> you are yours.<<

>

> --There it is again. You feel I dismissed your reality. I didn't. I

> said, " Time is real " . That's not personal.

>

> >>Let us go our way, two egoists, not yet purged of pride, in peace.<<

>

> --Please don't label me. I did not label you an " egotist " . That kind

> of labeling is not something I do, and I will ask you not to return

> a favor I did not give. You wrote off my request for consideration

> as an ego trip, and that is not what it was. If you cut someone off

> on the freeway and they say, " Hey, you cut me off! " do you call them

> an egotist or just say, " Sorry. I wasn't watching where I was

> going " ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> C. Lockhart

> www.soulaquarium.net

> Yahoo! Messenger: grailsnail

> Blog: http://shallowreflections.blogspot.com/

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

You think maybe Mercury is the god of argument and the trickster in his propaganda form. I hope someone will tell us the name of the protector of the traveler and guide of the dead.(Chiron?) As to the promulgator, I agree, he is the disgrace to the gods. Only the honor of uncertainty is proper here. I suppose Aires would give the energy to the Promulgator. Betty Re: the to and fro... of it.. Sam et al, I observe myself moving from a place of anxiousness about using the remaining time here on this Earth in a manner most useful, consistent with todate. Pondering thus, I observe within, the energy is moving to accepting my lot and utilising it all the more. I note the terrible difficulty of manoeuvring like Odysseus between Charybdis and Scylla- the tense neurosis and the abdication of Self to psychosis. We indeed are many- a boat load, each making their way back to their own Ithaca. I have been allotted to ‘do that which I love (to do) and have the permission to love doing it.’ So I paint, have taken up Photography and carry on with my healing work as a Psychotherapist. The notion of worship is not confined to formal religion of any kind, and seeing none of the Archetypes of any existing religion has presented itself I am left feed to some degree, from Bible thumping, born again notions, and needing to contort my body to suit some ancient doctrine in order to ‘centre down’ or whatever. The desire to persuade through rational does not consume me either. So to settle in to a way of life which needs must include connecting- expressing through doing- and seeking that the Odysseus way through life must continue to eventually meeting the Swine herdsman alone. Like Odysseus, my Guide is not of my choosing, it chose me. No goddess of war, or wise one for me! But Sure! Will have to settle for the protector of the traveller and guide of the dead., Mmmmm... Like I said, not of my choosing. Must find out the name of he god of argument! Or is she the goddess of winning hearts and minds? The god/dess of persuasion maybe...or even the god of proper- gander. This quality may simply be one of the many who surround Aires. Promulgate should be his name- who’s etymology is doubtful (significantly!) He is indeed the Gobshiit of the gods! And all too evident...... F. _____________________________________Letter content was scannedNo threat detectedwww.winantivirus.com

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----From: JUNG-FIRE [mailto:JUNG-FIRE ] On Behalf Of betty hillSent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 8:14 AMTo: JUNG-FIRE Subject: Re: the to and fro... of it..You think maybe Mercury is the god of argument and the trickster in his propaganda form. I hope someone will tell us the name of the protector of the traveler and guide of the dead.

Also Mercury (Hermes).

Kione

[Guest guest]

Yes, of course Kione, I forgot, crossroads, and Hecate stands there with him. Betty You think maybe Mercury is the god of argument and the trickster in his propaganda form. I hope someone will tell us the name of the protector of the traveler and guide of the dead. Also Mercury (Hermes). Kione_____________________________________Letter content was scannedNo threat detectedwww.winantivirus.com

[Guest guest]

PS to previous post: How does Crossroads relate to the center point of the circle? I guess a crossroads doesn't have to be a perfect intersection as the circle with 4, 90 degree angles? which characterizes the circle used to illustrate the Absolute.? Betty ( who always has a question) Re: the to and fro... of it.. Yes, of course Kione, I forgot, crossroads, and Hecate stands there with him. Betty You think maybe Mercury is the god of argument and the trickster in his propaganda form. I hope someone will tell us the name of the protector of the traveler and guide of the dead. Also Mercury (Hermes). Kione_____________________________________ Letter content was scannedNo threat detectedwww.winantivirus.com _____________________________________Letter content was scannedNo threat detectedwww.winantivirus.com

[Guest guest]

>I observe within, the energy is moving to accepting my lot and utilising it all the more.

Hi ,

This was a most difficult exercise for me and it's turned out to be one that provides me with the most inner peace. I've discovered that I can accept what is and at the same time be determined to change it if possible. Of course, that's the only way we can bring about change, by first accepting what is. You can't change something that you deny exists. How simple to understand and how difficult to do sometimes.

>‘do that which I love (to do) and have the permission to love doing it.’ So I paint, have >taken up Photography and carry on with my healing work as a Psychotherapist.

Because I'd become unable to do that which I thought I loved I had to become a lot more introspective and discover what it is that I truly love. I haven't come to any conclusion yet but at the moment I've become a writer. I'm not sure what will come of that but I have high hopes. Just had a piece come out in a Swedenborg publication (and I'm not happy with the way it was edited but isn't that just like a writer? LOL) and I'm working on finding a publisher for a popularized version of my thesis. I have no idea if this will be healing for any others but it's given me something that somehow feels like a purpose. Time will tell.

Blissings,

Sam

Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper StickerMany of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi Choose your illusion carefully. ~ UnknownWho looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. Jung

[Guest guest]

Like the idea of writing- being dyslexic is a pig around it for me-

Hi ,

Yeah, it makes it a real challenge, huh? I occasionally transpose letters and numbers but not to the extent that folks with dyslexia often do. Maybe if writing didn't come so naturally to me I'd be better at expressing with art, something else I'd like to get into but the frustration of not being able to put down what I "see" or feel is easier to release by writing about it. To each what works.

>writing and art are to some degree a >working out of ones lower self- a kind of purging of ones inner world.

I'm not sure I'd classify it as ones lower self but definitely an expression of the inner Self.

Blissings,

Sam

If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking. -- Denis WaitleyIt is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- AristotleThe goal of an argument should be progress, not victory. -- Author unknownAccept complete responsibility both for understanding and for being understood. -- He's a blockhead who wants a proof of what he can't perceive; And he's a fool who tries to make such a blockhead believe. -- Blake

[Guest guest]

Kione,

Anubis....is one of his names-

You cannot choose who visits you in the night!

F.

vis :-

I hope someone will tell us the name of

> the protector of the traveler and guide of the dead.

>

> Also Mercury (Hermes).

>

> Kione

>

>

> _____________________________________ Letter content was scanned

> No threat detected

> www.winantivirus.com

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: JUNG-FIRE

> [mailto:JUNG-FIRE ] On Behalf Of

> jdstephenflynn@...

>

> Kione,

>

> Anubis....is one of his names-

> You cannot choose who visits you in the night!

Wouldn't want to! (What fun would that be?)

K.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam,

Like the idea of writing- being dyslexic is a pig around it for me-

Compenstation takes the day though.

I once came across an Indonesian belief that writing and art are to some degree

a

working out of ones lower self- a kind of purging of ones inner world.

Sounds like it couldnot be otherwise- what is ones own ramifications is anothers

guidence- depends where one is along the twisting road to whereveroneisgoing,

F.

> In a message dated 2/25/2006 2:21:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jdstephenflynn@... writes:

>

> >I observe within, the energy is moving to accepting my lot and

> >utilising it

> all the more.

>

> Hi ,

>

> This was a most difficult exercise for me and it's turned out to be

> one that provides me with the most inner peace. I've discovered that

> I can accept what is and at the same time be determined to change it

> if possible. Of course, that's the only way we can bring about

> change, by first accepting what is. You can't change something that

> you deny exists. How simple to understand and how difficult to do

> sometimes.

>

> >‘do that which I love (to do) and have the permission to love

> >doing it.’

> So I paint, have >taken up Photography and carry on with my healing

> work as a Psychotherapist.

>

> Because I'd become unable to do that which I thought I loved I had to

> become a lot more introspective and discover what it is that I truly

> love. I haven't come to any conclusion yet but at the moment I've

> become a writer. I'm not sure what will come of that but I have high

> hopes. Just had a piece come out in a Swedenborg publication (and

> I'm not happy with the way it was edited but isn't that just like a

> writer? LOL) and I'm working on finding a publisher for a

> popularized version of my thesis. I have no idea if this will be

> healing for any others but it's given me something that somehow feels

> like a purpose. Time will tell.

>

> Blissings,

> Sam

>

>

>

> Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper Sticker

> Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. ~

> Obi-Wan Kenobi Choose your illusion carefully. ~ Unknown Who looks

> outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. Jung

>