Re: co-sleeping

[Guest guest]

We didn't coin the term " co-sleep " . I have no clue

who did, but I did it with , and also

came into our bed off and on until he was 8 or 9. It

was only when I was pregnant with Dylan that I found

out there was actually a whole movement where people

sleep with their kids. Attachment parenting.

was the only kid we had that never wanted to sleep

with us.

When we had Dylan, we spent a lot of time and money

decorating and furnishing a nursery, and he has never

slept in it. It was gorgeous, too! My mom bought me

a beautiful blue pewter crib. It was never used. I

love waking up with Dylan beside me, looking in his

eyes, getting those kisses and hugs. I don't know why

anyone would want their child to sleep in a crib. I

hear from my family " Aren't you afraid he'll never

sleep by himself? " Since I don't know any 20 year

olds who still sleep with their mamas, I'm not too

worried about it.

It is really funny how kids get embarrassed. My

mother used to call me Princess Matilda. I just

remember being mortified. She still calls me Matilda

Lou, but it doesn't embarrass me now.

--- DK Moulton wrote:

> Hey ,

>

> You " co-sleep " ? Did you coin that or did someone

> else? Our son, our youngest of four, slept with us

> until he was I think four years old, and then after

> that we'd still wake up in the middle of the night

> and find him creeping into our bed. Funny how at

> the time it was a pain especially at your son's age

> (feet in our face in the middle of the night,

> occasional bed-wetting), but now I look back at it

> and I can remember waking before him and we'd be

> nose to nose and I would just stare at his beautiful

> face and when he woke up, I knew I was the first

> thing he would see...means a lot to me now (and

> embarrasses the hell out him now when I bring it up

> - he's 6'3 " 190 lbs and a great kid, but hates when

> I bring up cute and endearing stuff he did a tot.)

>

> Kathy

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[Guest guest]

,

You obviously haven't looked into to the psychological

ramifications of sleeping with your child into the later years. I read that it

is

not healthy, psychologically. It stunts their psychological development, not

to mention not allowing them to mature normally. Have you asked yourself if

what you are doing is for selfish reasons or because you falsely believe that

you are doing them some good? I would think that as a parent you would want

them to grow up to be independent, self sufficient people and not hanging on to

your apron strings, until YOU decide that you are tired of them and wether

or not they are prepared to face the real world, you shove them out the door

at the age of 25.This is not my story, but I've known plenty of people who

were treated like that, and today they aren't exactly doctors or lawyers. Among

those that are married, well, let's just say I feel sorry for their spouses.

The men are spineless and the women fall apart with the smallest problems. I

may have come off a little harsh, but I would not like to see the same story

play itself out only because parents want to please themselves and not do

what is best for he child. Apart from this, sharing the world with these types

of people, is aggravating because since they need constant gratification and

when the innocent bystander is standing in their way, well let's just say, ya

gatta duck.

Jeff - NYC

[Guest guest]

Hi All:

I typically stay out of things on the boards when they get " heated, "

but I couldn't sit back on this one. There is a lot of controversary

out there about co-sleeping. I don't proport to be an expert on this

area, but I am a psychologist. There are NO good studies in the

literature that suggest there is a relationship between co-sleeping

and any long term psychological issues. There is definately noting

to suggest that co-sleeping causes long term issues. On the other

hand, co-sleeping is sometimes suggested as a treatment for reactive

attachment disorder and some other issues, particularly related to

adoption. We are one of the few cultures (b/c of the stress we put

on autonomy) that do NOT cosleep as a rule.

When parents have asked me about this issue, I have told them to do

whatever seems to " work " for their family, their kids and their

situation. Is this telling them to be selfish, perhaps?...but then

many parents deserve to be a little selfish from time to time,

espcially parents that are coping with the stress of having a child

with TSC.

Although I had not intended to co-sleep with our daughter...it

initially worked better for nursing...then she was in a spica cast

and needed flipped every 1/2 hour during night...then with all of her

medical issues and surgeries...it just " felt better " to have her very

close during night. She is now 3 and recently sleeping on her own in

a toddler bed and sometimes coming into our bed during night if she

wakes up. She is extremely independent and psychologically healthy

So, if co-sleeping is working for you and you are being " safe " about

it (the basics: not with tiny infants, preventing falls, not when

you've been drinking etc. etc.) please do NOT think you are

psychologically damaging your child. Beware of the information out

there...there is a lot published on this issue both pros/cons, that

isn't based on emperical research.

Mom2norah

>

> > Hi Kathy,

> >

> > I'm Kathy from NC. Your son's symptoms are all too

> > familiar I'm afraid. However, I'm confused a bit,

> > does he definitely have a tethered cord or are they

> > suspicious of one? I was diagnosed with Chiari and

> > lipomeningocele about nine/ten years ago at the age

> > of 36, and obviously was born with these conditions.

> >

> > I had leg pain as a child, especially at night. I

> > also had constant bladder/kidney infections and some

> > other issues as a child. Everything stopped though

> > once I reached full height (5'10 " ). Symptoms didn't

> > reappear until I fell down my cellar stairs years

> > previous to my diagnosis. I also had incontinence

> > as a child...not at night, but with laughing,

> > jumping, etc. But again, all symptoms went away

> > completely once I reached full height, but this

> > isn't, unfortunately, true for everyone.

> >

> > In saying this though, two of our daughters had

> > horrible leg pain at night, and we also had to do

> > massaging of their legs in the middle of the night.

> > They were both diagnosed with " growing pains. " When

> > I was diagnosed, I had all four of our children

> > MRI'd from head to toe and all came back fine (two

> > have SBO, but no issues). Their leg pains truly

> > were growing pains.

> >

> > I'm sure this isn't helping you one bit, probably

> > making your situation of decision making worse, but

> > my suggestion would be to seek out a very versed

> > expert in TCS and see two of them and then decide.

> > Maybe a diary of his symptoms or " could be " symptoms

> > may help you see if there's any type of relation

> > between growth spurts and his issues?

> >

> > Kathy

> > Leg Pains as only symptom of

> > Tethered Cord?

> >

> >

> > Hi - I am new to this group. I am a 42-yr-old

> > mother of 3 boys, ages 10, 7, and 5. And I work

> > (mostly telecommuting from home) about 30 hours a

> > week. Busy schedule, like everyone these days. I

> > have a Chiari Malformation with an 8mm herniation.

> > So far, my quality of life is not bad enough to

> > warrant decompression surgery so I am managing my

> > symptoms and doing OK. Some days better than

> > others... I go to the The Chiari Institute (TCI)

> > annually for monitoring.

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My children used to crawl into my bed in the morning when they were little. We

did not " Co-Sleep " , but if they wanted to see us in the morning, or if they had

a nightmare, they were totally welcome to hop in our bed. I believe that the

person who, quite frankly, sent out the alarmingly insulting e-mail to the

parents who choose to let their children sleep with them is way off base. Im not

trying to be rude to you, but your data is really unfounded for the whole world

in general. Perhaps there are studies in the US that state that Co-Sleeping does

all this harm that you state it does, but you need to look at the data from

around the world on Co-Sleeping. It is done all over Europe, Third World

Countries, and most every other country out there where sleeping space is

limited. In the Alps of Switzerland, whole families sleep in the same gigantic

bed. The kids do not grow up being stunted emotionally, but they do keep warm,

that is for sure. I've lived all over this world like Japan, Turkey, and Guam,

and I've visited at least fifteen other countries including a previous Iron

Curtain country -- Poland. Co-Sleeping has not hurt the Polish, the Italians,

the Spanish, or anybody else that I've seen. Only in the US is it frowned upon.

By the way, I'm not a psychologist, but my degree is in the study of people and

how they co-exist and communicate with each other on a daily basis. I know what

I'm talking about. The US could probably learn a great deal from other countries

if it could just, for a moment step down from it's high horse and realize that

other ways in other countries have worked for centuries, and the children grow

up into wonderfully masculine or feminine intelligent, responsible adults.

Take care,

Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,

but

rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, " WOW, WHAT A RIDE! "

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jeff,

do you think just a little harsh????????? Thank gosh this is america

and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I think that your email

was just a bit nasty. has been nothing but nice and very

supportive to all that that take part on this website. How about a

little respect Jeff.

Sincerely, BarbR

>

> ,

> You obviously haven't looked into to the

psychological

> ramifications of sleeping with your child into the later years. I

read that it is

> not healthy, psychologically. It stunts their psychological

development, not

> to mention not allowing them to mature normally. Have you asked

yourself if

> what you are doing is for selfish reasons or because you falsely

believe that

> you are doing them some good? I would think that as a parent you

would want

> them to grow up to be independent, self sufficient people and not

hanging on to

> your apron strings, until YOU decide that you are tired of them

and wether

> or not they are prepared to face the real world, you shove them

out the door

> at the age of 25.This is not my story, but I've known plenty of

people who

> were treated like that, and today they aren't exactly doctors or

lawyers. Among

> those that are married, well, let's just say I feel sorry for

their spouses.

> The men are spineless and the women fall apart with the smallest

problems. I

> may have come off a little harsh, but I would not like to see the

same story

> play itself out only because parents want to please themselves

and not do

> what is best for he child. Apart from this, sharing the world

with these types

> of people, is aggravating because since they need constant

gratification and

> when the innocent bystander is standing in their way, well let's

just say, ya

> gatta duck.

>

> Jeff - NYC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jeff,

do you think just a little harsh????????? Thank gosh this is america

and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I think that your email

was just a bit nasty. has been nothing but nice and very

supportive to all that that take part on this website. How about a

little respect Jeff.

Sincerely, BarbR

>

> ,

> You obviously haven't looked into to the

psychological

> ramifications of sleeping with your child into the later years. I

read that it is

> not healthy, psychologically. It stunts their psychological

development, not

> to mention not allowing them to mature normally. Have you asked

yourself if

> what you are doing is for selfish reasons or because you falsely

believe that

> you are doing them some good? I would think that as a parent you

would want

> them to grow up to be independent, self sufficient people and not

hanging on to

> your apron strings, until YOU decide that you are tired of them

and wether

> or not they are prepared to face the real world, you shove them

out the door

> at the age of 25.This is not my story, but I've known plenty of

people who

> were treated like that, and today they aren't exactly doctors or

lawyers. Among

> those that are married, well, let's just say I feel sorry for

their spouses.

> The men are spineless and the women fall apart with the smallest

problems. I

> may have come off a little harsh, but I would not like to see the

same story

> play itself out only because parents want to please themselves

and not do

> what is best for he child. Apart from this, sharing the world

with these types

> of people, is aggravating because since they need constant

gratification and

> when the innocent bystander is standing in their way, well let's

just say, ya

> gatta duck.

>

> Jeff - NYC

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Jeff...hope you have your own children that you practice this stuff on. I

couldn't even finish reading your msg as it's such a tirade of falseness.

As I stated in my previous post, our son slept with us until he was three or

four and then occasionally we would find him in our bed. Now, I have no studies

to show what I'm going to say is the truth everywhere, but what I didn't mention

is that all four of our children slept with us. All four went to college (not

all finished, but all went), and our son that I mentioned in my msg?

He's an ROTC officer candidate at a great college. He's a lead swimmer on his

school's class A swim team and a mechanical engineering major. He lives on HIS

OWN at the age of nineteen (when we moved 900 miles away his freshman year he

chose to STAY and rent his own place near his campus.)

All of our other children moved out of house by the age of 20-22 which is quite

normal. They all live independently, all have good credit, pay their own bills,

and have only once or twice " needed " help. Note I said needed help - they not

once have asked - we noticed and offered and all that took our offers, paid us

back in a very timely manner (even though we made it clear it was a gift and we

did not loan family money.)

So ... what's up doc?

Kathy

Re: co-sleeping

,

You obviously haven't looked into to the psychological

ramifications of sleeping with your child into the later years. I read that it

is

not healthy, psychologically. It stunts their psychological development, not

to mention not allowing them to mature normally. Have you asked yourself if

what you are doing is for selfish reasons or because you falsely believe that

you are doing them some good? I would think that as a parent you would want

them to grow up to be independent, self sufficient people and not hanging on

to

your apron strings, until YOU decide that you are tired of them and wether

or not they are prepared to face the real world, you shove them out the door

at the age of 25.This is not my story, but I've known plenty of people who

were treated like that, and today they aren't exactly doctors or lawyers.

Among

those that are married, well, let's just say I feel sorry for their spouses.

The men are spineless and the women fall apart with the smallest problems. I

may have come off a little harsh, but I would not like to see the same story

play itself out only because parents want to please themselves and not do

what is best for he child. Apart from this, sharing the world with these types

of people, is aggravating because since they need constant gratification and

when the innocent bystander is standing in their way, well let's just say, ya

gatta duck.

Jeff - NYC

[Guest guest]

I am not a psychologist, but I am going to chime in with my

experience. I come from India. I lived there with my parents till I

was 21. I co-slept with my parents and sister in our big family bed

till I was 13 or 14. We had only 2 bedrooms, and the bed was present

only in one. I went on do my engineering (BS) and MBA. I work in the

senior management position of my company here in USA. I am 34 now.

My parents still live in India. I was independent enough at 20-21 to

travel to Australia, USA, Europe on my own, and work and live alone.

I met a nice guy and got married. I have a very loving relationship

with my parents. They made sure my focus was on education and not

other things during my teen years.

I dont know how and if my parents got privacy, but for the kids

(us), we had a very secure and loving home, and have no

psychological effects. I am considered a strong person, and my

parents and others ask my opinion in many things. This tc is one

thing that has made me feel not so strong and in control. My first

daughter who is almost five is just transitioning to her own room

and bed now. And still keeps coming to our room at night sometimes,

and we totally allow her. She knows we are there for her when she

needs us. Our tc daughter who will turn 1 next week sleep in her own

crib, but it is in our room.

Abby.

>

> Hi,

>

> My children used to crawl into my bed in the morning when they

were little. We did not " Co-Sleep " , but if they wanted to see us in

the morning, or if they had a nightmare, they were totally welcome

to hop in our bed. I believe that the person who, quite frankly,

sent out the alarmingly insulting e-mail to the parents who choose

to let their children sleep with them is way off base. Im not trying

to be rude to you, but your data is really unfounded for the whole

world in general. Perhaps there are studies in the US that state

that Co-Sleeping does all this harm that you state it does, but you

need to look at the data from around the world on Co-Sleeping. It is

done all over Europe, Third World Countries, and most every other

country out there where sleeping space is limited. In the Alps of

Switzerland, whole families sleep in the same gigantic bed. The kids

do not grow up being stunted emotionally, but they do keep warm,

that is for sure. I've lived all over this world like Japan, Turkey,

and Guam, and I've visited at least fifteen other countries

including a previous Iron Curtain country -- Poland. Co-Sleeping has

not hurt the Polish, the Italians, the Spanish, or anybody else that

I've seen. Only in the US is it frowned upon. By the way, I'm not a

psychologist, but my degree is in the study of people and how they

co-exist and communicate with each other on a daily basis. I know

what I'm talking about. The US could probably learn a great deal

from other countries if it could just, for a moment step down from

it's high horse and realize that other ways in other countries have

worked for centuries, and the children grow up into wonderfully

masculine or feminine intelligent, responsible adults.

>

> Take care,

>

>

> Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well

preserved body, but

> rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, " WOW,

WHAT A RIDE! "

>

_____________________________________________________________________

___

> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and

security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from

across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeff,

Do you have children? Have you co-slept? I have

co-slept with three of my children. My second oldest

never wanted to sleep in our bed. We didn't force him

to.

My children range in age from 21 to 3. My 21 year old

daughter slept with me until she was five years old.

She is perfectly well-adjusted, independent, works two

jobs, went to Wyoming for six months to work at

Yellowstone, and is in no way either too attached or

too detached from me. I am thinking you read

something that was written by people who think it

abhorrent to actually allow your children to be

attached to you. If you read stuff from the

attachment parenting side, you will see literature

that " proves " that putting a child into a crib will

cause attachment problems, self-doubt, angst about

being alone. All sorts of stuff that I think is

probably about as true as co-sleeping causing

psychological problems.

To suggest that co-sleeping is selfish just made me

laugh really hard. There is nothing less selfish than

allowing your child unfettered access to you during

the night. I have not fallen asleep in my husband's

arms for 3 years. I have not slept through the night

in three years. I do not do this for selfish reasons.

My bachelor's degree is in developmental child

psychology. Infants come out of a very warm, very

attached environment into a cold, bright world with no

understanding of what has happened and why they have

been ripped from their safe haven. I have done this

for my children because I think they will have a whole

lot of time in their lives to experience the reality

of how unattached the western world is. The very

least I can do is give them as much closeness as they

need when they are little.

As for the suggestion that children who co-sleep need

instant gratification (I assume that's what you mean

by " constant gratification) is silly and ridiculous.

Again, I have older children who aren't bullish and

mean. They are not demanding or spoiled. They are

really great kids who don't get into trouble. I am

guessing that you haven't read much about serial

killers or other sociopaths. Their problems don't come

from being too attached to their parents. Most parents

of serial killers are very abusive and distant, cold.

The kids don't develop normal relationships so they

never know how to be close to others.

I find it so funny that someone would attack my

motives on this board. My gosh, I would expect to get

a lecture if I beat my kids, or if I neglected my

kids. I just have to laugh at the idea that I'm being

lectured for loving my kids.

)

--- Joffrexel@... wrote:

> ,

> You obviously haven't looked into to

> the psychological

> ramifications of sleeping with your child into the

> later years. I read that it is

> not healthy, psychologically. It stunts their

> psychological development, not

> to mention not allowing them to mature normally.

> Have you asked yourself if

> what you are doing is for selfish reasons or

> because you falsely believe that

> you are doing them some good? I would think that as

> a parent you would want

> them to grow up to be independent, self sufficient

> people and not hanging on to

> your apron strings, until YOU decide that you are

> tired of them and wether

> or not they are prepared to face the real world,

> you shove them out the door

> at the age of 25.This is not my story, but I've

> known plenty of people who

> were treated like that, and today they aren't

> exactly doctors or lawyers. Among

> those that are married, well, let's just say I feel

> sorry for their spouses.

> The men are spineless and the women fall apart with

> the smallest problems. I

> may have come off a little harsh, but I would not

> like to see the same story

> play itself out only because parents want to please

> themselves and not do

> what is best for he child. Apart from this, sharing

> the world with these types

> of people, is aggravating because since they need

> constant gratification and

> when the innocent bystander is standing in their

> way, well let's just say, ya

> gatta duck.

>

>

> Jeff - NYC

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Barb,

Thank you very much for the support! I'm happy to know

that I've been nice to people. I appreciate hearing

it!

--- brbrrss wrote:

> Dear Jeff,

>

> do you think just a little harsh????????? Thank gosh

> this is america

> and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I think

> that your email

> was just a bit nasty. has been nothing but

> nice and very

> supportive to all that that take part on this

> website. How about a

> little respect Jeff.

>

> Sincerely, BarbR

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)

[Guest guest]

I took an anthropology class. We learned that in some cultures,

'co-sleeping' is done until age 4 or 5, along with breast feeding, then

the child is abruptly removed from the parents bed.

R

[Guest guest]

Most of the time as kids get older they want to have a separate

room, sleep by themselves and be independent. The only time really

that teens do sleep with their parents is when there is not enough

room in the house to have a separate room or bed. We " co-slept " till

our early teens because the family bed was big, and there was no

other convenient space in the house. We certainly didnt have our own

rooms. I could have slept on the floor with some blankets, but I

guess it wasnt as comfortable. But in spite of that, we did not turn

out clingy or weak or anything.

Many kids transition at that time (4-5) because they first want to

be independent and " I am a big girl/boy " feeling around that time.

My first daughter whois 4.5 is abrubtly transitioning on her own

accord. We still always gave her own bed in our room after she moved

out of the crib. But she used to sleep with us . Now she saw some

friends of her age who sleep in their room, so she wanted to. We

gladly moved her bed to her room, and she sleeps fine.

Abby.

>

> > I took an anthropology class. We learned that in

> > some cultures,

> > 'co-sleeping' is done until age 4 or 5, along with

> > breast feeding, then

> > the child is abruptly removed from the parents bed.

> > R

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail

> (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)

>

[Guest guest]

Weaver said the following on 10/30/2006 6:30 AM:

> That seems mean to me, that abrupt removal from what a

> child has known for so long. In many cultures,

> children and parents share the same rooms to sleep,

> the same beds. I hadn't known about an abrupt removal.

> Any answers on why they choose that age to separate

> from the child?

>

I should have probably clarified a little more but I was short on time

then and the practice really does not apply to " Western " culture.

This is a middle African culture. From what I remember, at about age 5

the child is *ready* to leave his mother and be with other children his

age up to 9 or 10 years old. The child is sent to a community fenced in

area quite a distance from the home where they are free to do what they

want, play, run, jump, fall out of trees, fight, whatever. There is no

adult intervention unless someone becomes seriously hurt. The children

learn to be responsible for their own actions by trial and error, mommy

is not there to kiss an ouchie. The child is free to leave and go home

at any time but they do not because then he/she will loose status and be

ridiculed. This sounds like cruel & unusual but remember this is not

western culture, our way. Thats just how they have done things there for

several hundred years. I think it would benefit western society to learn

a little about other cultures, open our minds about the rest of the

world instead of our little neat little US of A. I will stop here, this

has gone 'off topic'. Anyone has any more questions, comments, or want

additional info, email me rick@...

Rick