Re: most BPD women marry NPDs

January 21, 2007

Okay. So, not really being familiar with NPD, I looked up the DSM-IV

criteria, and fada only exhibits 2, that I can tell. 5 are necessary for a

diagnosis. But nada exhibits at least 7! So now I find out that I grew up

with someone with 2 personality disorders! This is a happy day for me! ; )

Really, it is a good thing because it helps me know what I¹m dealing with

.... And I think I know why fada has stayed with nada so long. His mother

exhibited at least 5 NPD criteria - oh, the stories I could tell! - and she

might even have had more. She¹s dead now, so I can¹t double-check, but if my

few memories serve correctly, then fada married a woman just like his

mother!

The generational personality disorder sharing ends with me, though. I will

NOT develop one (I think I¹m too old now, anyway). And I¹m not marrying

anyone with a personality disorder. My bf doesn¹t show any signs of one,

thank goodness! And I will not expose my children to any of these weird,

disordered people! Just a few of my ³new year¹s² resolutions. I hadn¹t made

any up until now.

January 21, 2007

Hi Mishael! Yes, the 'Queen' version of the borderline in UBM is very similar

to a narcissist,

I think. I also read the NPD criteria re nada, but it didn't even occur to me

at that time that

dishrag might be one. I wasn't aware of what to look for. Now I understand

that he never,

ever says anything directly, so I have to look at what the indirect messages

have been. He

never actually spoke about deserving the best or being the best, but he

constantly buys

luxuries items and dinners and poses as an accomplished person in public, and he

has

always been a gambler and pursued grandiose goals. He never directly told me

what he

wanted from me, but there were 'joking' comments that I was supposed to be

famous and

successful in various ways, and have a rich, successful family-- and there was

complete

annihilation when I wasn't doing those things. And, here's the clincher--when I

did things

he didn't want me to--even at the highest possible level--there was absolutely

no

acknowledgement whatsoever. I used to think he was just too busy or preoccupied

by

work, or perhaps being tortured by nada at those times. But now it all makes

sense.

Anything to do with having an attractive family or making money, I have been

strangely,

luxuriously rewarded for--because HE wants those things for himself. But,

overall,

financial support has been withheld, because I haven't done what he wants

enough.

I almost wish the b**d was aggressive, instead of passive aggressive--at least

then I would

have KNOWN what he wanted ...

Charlie

>

> Okay. So, not really being familiar with NPD, I looked up the DSM-IV

> criteria, and fada only exhibits 2, that I can tell. 5 are necessary for a

> diagnosis. But nada exhibits at least 7! So now I find out that I grew up

> with someone with 2 personality disorders! This is a happy day for me! ; )

> Really, it is a good thing because it helps me know what I¹m dealing with

> ... And I think I know why fada has stayed with nada so long. His mother

> exhibited at least 5 NPD criteria - oh, the stories I could tell! - and she

> might even have had more. She¹s dead now, so I can¹t double-check, but if my

> few memories serve correctly, then fada married a woman just like his

> mother!

> The generational personality disorder sharing ends with me, though. I will

> NOT develop one (I think I¹m too old now, anyway). And I¹m not marrying

> anyone with a personality disorder. My bf doesn¹t show any signs of one,

> thank goodness! And I will not expose my children to any of these weird,

> disordered people! Just a few of my ³new year¹s² resolutions. I hadn¹t made

> any up until now.

>

January 21, 2007

maryec73 -- nurse that cold and get well soon!

And when you're well, I would LOVE to hear what your T said about

Narcissists marrying borderlines. My only guess is that it feeds

their ego to be so COMPLETELY needed by the borderline.

I remember my T saying years ago (before I was able to put it all

together, before I even heard of BPD) -- she said " Your dad is a

narcissist. "

I remember being shocked! Where the heck did she get that?

Now, I can see it clearly in him and I'm fascinated by how it keeps

coming up on this board!

When the clouds in your head clear, hopefully you can remember what

your T said!

Get well soon,

Kyla

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I gained some incredibly important knowledge this week and I

> wanted to pass it on to

> > everyone! This is especially important for those of you who are

> overachievers. My therapist

> > said that most BPD women marry narcissists. After some

research,

> I realized that, indeed, my

> > own father was one too. It wasn't obvious at first because he

is

> passive aggressive, and he is

> > also very charming, smiling and friendly. So I had to dig a

> little, but once I understood what I

> > was looking for, the pieces ALL fit into place, just like when I

> discovered nada was a nada.

> > It's been an amazing couple of days, with this new knowledge.

It

> kind of freaks me out that

> > NEITHER of my parents are real parents, but it certainly

explains

> a lot, and I have a better

> > chance of enduring, substantial happiness than ever before! By

> the way, for those of you

> > whose father's resist NC, they may be narcissists resisting the

> idea that they aren't the

> > perfect, glorious fathers of perfect, glorious families.

> >

> > Wow!

> > Best,

> > Charlie

> >

>

January 21, 2007

Oh my goodness, Charlie, thank you for posting these thoughts!

You could have been describing my fada!

He was always the gentle one, slow and steady, ALWAYS went to work,

never missed a day in his life -- was never out of work. Slaved

away while nada stayed at home.

She was needy and from an alcoholic home. He was from a chaotic

home with a domineering father and a cowering mother. My dad's

brother was the golden child, and my dad was left at home a lot

while his dad took his brother fishing and such. I guess it fed my

dad's ego to be needed so desperately by my nada. And that has been

their arrangement for the past 45 years.

He's never let her down. And my brother and I were the ones who

were left out in the " cold " .

His narcissism, as I look back with clearer eyes, is evident. When

I DARED to suggest nada needed help (last Saturday) and that I

wasn't the cause of her turmoil (like he had been persistently

trying to tell me I was) -- well he turned on me like a caged lion.

I didn't serve his agenda so I was expendable.

Thanks again for sharing -- I'm not alone in this either!

-Kyla

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I gained some incredibly important knowledge this week and I

wanted to pass it on to

> everyone! This is especially important for those of you who are

overachievers. My therapist

> said that most BPD women marry narcissists. After some research,

I realized that, indeed, my

> own father was one too. It wasn't obvious at first because he is

passive aggressive, and he is

> also very charming, smiling and friendly. So I had to dig a

little, but once I understood what I

> was looking for, the pieces ALL fit into place, just like when I

discovered nada was a nada.

> It's been an amazing couple of days, with this new knowledge. It

kind of freaks me out that

> NEITHER of my parents are real parents, but it certainly explains

a lot, and I have a better

> chance of enduring, substantial happiness than ever before! By

the way, for those of you

> whose father's resist NC, they may be narcissists resisting the

idea that they aren't the

> perfect, glorious fathers of perfect, glorious families.

>

> Wow!

> Best,

> Charlie

>

January 21, 2007

You could still be on the right track! I have found that my

mother's borderline fit OTHER checklists than the DSM-IV. Sometimes

the other websites that had " layman's " descriptions of BPD in

everyday language described my nada more exactly.

In other words: As soon as I read the DSM-IV criteria, I thought,

well maybe she DOESN'T have BPD! But, after reading so many posts

on this board, and looking it up on other websites that described it

in a way I could understand, and last but not least,

reading " Understanding the Borderline Mother " absolutely nailed it

for me. My mother is INDEED a BPD!

The same could be true with your feelings about NPD! Keep reading!

Go with your gut and consult other sources than the DSM-IV. I

think you're on to something!

-Kyla

>

> Okay. So, not really being familiar with NPD, I looked up the DSM-

IV

> criteria, and fada only exhibits 2, that I can tell. 5 are

necessary for a

> diagnosis. But nada exhibits at least 7! So now I find out that I

grew up

> with someone with 2 personality disorders! This is a happy day for

me! ; )

> Really, it is a good thing because it helps me know what I¹m

dealing with

> ... And I think I know why fada has stayed with nada so long. His

mother

> exhibited at least 5 NPD criteria - oh, the stories I could

tell! - and she

> might even have had more. She¹s dead now, so I can¹t double-check,

but if my

> few memories serve correctly, then fada married a woman just like

his

> mother!

> The generational personality disorder sharing ends with me,

though. I will

> NOT develop one (I think I¹m too old now, anyway). And I¹m not

marrying

> anyone with a personality disorder. My bf doesn¹t show any signs

of one,

> thank goodness! And I will not expose my children to any of these

weird,

> disordered people! Just a few of my ³new year¹s² resolutions. I

hadn¹t made

> any up until now.

>

January 22, 2007

I find this a bit interesting because my therapist had told me my Fada

wasn't BPD but definitely narcissistic.

My mother is definitely not BP, she may be co-dependent, perhaps she

doesn't have a clear sense of her own identity, but she's never been

violent or impulsive, and actually often takes my side on issues with

Fada (even if she doesn't do anything about it, she acknowledges my

side).

From all I've read, NPD

(http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html),

BPD(http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe05.html), and

HPD(http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe06.html) are the Cluster-B

personality disorders, and their patterns can overlap, and I haven't

read the Borderline Mother book, but I get the impression that the

different types of Nada I've heard described here; Queen, Waif, etc.

might be different aspects along the Cluster-B personality continuum.

(It's kinda like trying to determine where Asperger's ends and Autism

begins.... there are many people in this world that don't fit snuggly

into pigeon holes. )

I really don't quite know how a NPD personality could be married to a

BPD, at least not for very long. NPD's completely lack empathy, and

even if your " dishrag " dad is disregarding your feelings, I often here

that dishrag is just putting Nada's feelings above anyone else's, and

this isn't something a narcissist can do. To a narcissist, their own

feelings are the most important. Perhaps in some cases dishrag is

just using Nada for his own means, and obviously I can't speak for

everyone. I wouldn't doubt that to stay with someone with BPD, one

would have to have some type of disorder, I just wouldn't think that

narcissism would be it.

I'd be interested to hear where the therapist got his info on this.

Can anyone reference info on this? Or was it more of a casual

observation?

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I gained some incredibly important knowledge this week and I wanted

to pass it on to

> everyone! This is especially important for those of you who are

overachievers. My therapist

> said that most BPD women marry narcissists. After some research, I

realized that, indeed, my

> own father was one too. It wasn't obvious at first because he is

passive aggressive, and he is

> also very charming, smiling and friendly. So I had to dig a little,

but once I understood what I

> was looking for, the pieces ALL fit into place, just like when I

discovered nada was a nada.

> It's been an amazing couple of days, with this new knowledge. It

kind of freaks me out that

> NEITHER of my parents are real parents, but it certainly explains a

lot, and I have a better

> chance of enduring, substantial happiness than ever before! By the

way, for those of you

> whose father's resist NC, they may be narcissists resisting the idea

that they aren't the

> perfect, glorious fathers of perfect, glorious families.

>

> Wow!

> Best,

> Charlie

>

January 22, 2007

Kath --

I clicked on your link to BPD and NPD and realized my fada isn't a

classic NPD, just co-dependent in Nada's maladaptive behavior.

I also read the criteria for BPD and I think my nada matches

1,2,3,6,7,8.

She's not been suicidal -- doesn't engage in inappropriate sex or

spending, etc. She does, however, smoke every waking moment and I

know she takes anti-depressants, especially when stressed. She gets

pissy if she can't smoke -- she lives in a state of panic if she has

to go too long without a cigarette. Plans her life around it.

She definitely made us suffer her moods -- she definitely splits

people good or bad. Seems to lack an inner sense of identity, yet

is very intelligent. She's definitely addicted to negative

excitement, can't share the spotlight very well, is a Hermit,

deathly afraid of the freeway, of death -- well just afraid of

anything.

She went " psychotic " years ago when she her father had a heart

attack -- I walked into the house and she shrieked that I didn't

live there anymore and to take my shit and get out. Which I did!

Her inability to cope let her to become like an animal -- I'll never

forget it.

Dishrag got me to come home later that night and then bitched me out

for calling her " crazy " as I left. Stupid me -- it was all MY

fault! I don't think dishrag is a diagnosable narcissist, but he

sure abandoned me when he got mad at me for daring to say something

to the hag that was throwing me out of the house. He made it cleare

where his loyalties were -- and they weren't with me!

I was still in the FOG back then, so it took another couple of

decades (now) to wise up and realize they're a sick system I don't

want much of a part of.

What jerks they both were.

-Kyla

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I gained some incredibly important knowledge this week and I

wanted

> to pass it on to

> > everyone! This is especially important for those of you who are

> overachievers. My therapist

> > said that most BPD women marry narcissists. After some

research, I

> realized that, indeed, my

> > own father was one too. It wasn't obvious at first because he is

> passive aggressive, and he is

> > also very charming, smiling and friendly. So I had to dig a

little,

> but once I understood what I

> > was looking for, the pieces ALL fit into place, just like when I

> discovered nada was a nada.

> > It's been an amazing couple of days, with this new knowledge. It

> kind of freaks me out that

> > NEITHER of my parents are real parents, but it certainly

explains a

> lot, and I have a better

> > chance of enduring, substantial happiness than ever before! By

the

> way, for those of you

> > whose father's resist NC, they may be narcissists resisting the

idea

> that they aren't the

> > perfect, glorious fathers of perfect, glorious families.

> >

> > Wow!

> > Best,

> > Charlie

> >

>

January 22, 2007

Yup, my fada and nada are NPD and BPD. You know, I didn't really

research the NPD and BPD thing until the NC process this year. I knew

about the NPD diagnosis when I was a teen because of my nada's

berrating my father about it during one of the many fight sessions I

was asked to referee.

The labels help us to make sense of stuff, but with or without them

the pain is there.

erica

January 23, 2007

I can share from my observation with my NPD fada and BPD nada. I

think my fada has some sick need to be bossed and punished as well as

a need to feel that he knows better than her and that he can provide

for her. To my understanding, the NPD's sense of importance is an

act, especially for him/herself.

a

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