Re: Gentle reminder

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,I would just like to mention that, historically, when this groupbecomes completely "positive and kind," it tends to go to sleep. Therehas to be some (if you like) "jousting".

I complerely agree! n I sure value yr input! But u are wise enough to express yrself ad rem. My reminder was directed at those who attack ad hominem, presumably intending to 'teach' or correct. U play the part of curmudgeon to perfection n sometimes, I suspect, w/tounge in cheek!

So joust away - Steve's latest was just right - a debate ad rem.

We are bracing ourselves for more hard weather. It's been a long miserable winter in these parts but the Celt in me prefers that to sunny 100% tropical day after day.

Am thinking of signing up for cackling lessons - bout time.

yr fond Auld Cailleach

ao

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[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

I needn't play the part of the curmudgeon, because that is what I am.

No acting required.

That said, I am not necessarily convinced of the truth of every

opinion I advance or argument I make. Sometimes I will float something

just to see where it goes.

best regards,

dan Watkins

>

>

> In a message dated 3/4/2008 9:35:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> dwatkins9@... writes:

>

> Dear Alice,

>

> I would just like to mention that, historically, when this group

> becomes completely " positive and kind, " it tends to go to sleep. There

> has to be some (if you like) " jousting " .

>

>

>

>

> I complerely agree! n I sure value yr input! But u are wise enough to

> express yrself ad rem. My reminder was directed at those who attack

ad hominem,

> presumably intending to 'teach' or correct. U play the part of

curmudgeon to

> perfection n sometimes, I suspect, w/tounge in cheek!

>

> So joust away - Steve's latest was just right - a debate ad rem.

>

> We are bracing ourselves for more hard weather. It's been a long

miserable

> winter in these parts but the Celt in me prefers that to sunny 100%

tropical

> day after day.

>

> Am thinking of signing up for cackling lessons - bout time.

>

> yr fond Auld Cailleach

>

> ao

>

>

>

>

>

> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &

> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

>

[Guest guest]

Re: Gentle Reminder

Dear Alice,

Obama - Puer aeternus (easy one)

McCain - Senex (another easy one)

Palin - Puella-cum-Artemis, transitioning to great mother? (her

Puella/Artemis youth and vigour balance McCain's Saturnine temperment,

hence only reason he has a prayer).

Biden - don't know, but a little quick and dirty research shows that

he is relatively poor, and has a history of indifferent academic

achievement in common with both Palin and McCain.

They're all extraverts.

best,

Dan

>

> Lets rememember this is a Jung grp.!

>

> How about a look at the typology of the candidates?

>

> Palin: Extraverted, sensation/feeling/ judgmental?

>

> Mc Cain: introverted?, sensation, feeling, perceptive?

>

> Obama: Introverted, intuitive, thinking, perceptive?

>

> Biden??

>

> Let's hear fr u on this?

>

> ----------------------------------

> We need to be compassionate to those victims of Ike who have lost

EVERYTHING

> except the clothes they are wearing! It's not just food, water,

shelter -

> it's EVERYTHING. Imagine this happening to you yourself.

Psychologically, it is

> like dying alive, wh requires a huge shift in consciousness. Do send

> something to help an organization like the Red Cross?

>

> The world is being reminded everywhere of what values we have. Things?

> Money? security? Are we givers or takers? Are we grateful for the

love n courage

> of those who wld rescue us.The hoopla of the Conventions cost a

> fortune.........

>

> I'm tempted to quote: "What profiteth it a man if he gain the world

and

> loses his soul thereby?" In the end, and I am close to it meself, it

seems all I

> cn take w/me is what I have given away!

>

> soberly but w/love

>

> ao

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV.

Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV.

[Guest guest]

Dear Elaine,

By " relatively poor, " I mean that he is poor relative to other

Senators. Net worth of under 500K, as opposed to most Senators who are

millionaires or multi-millionaires. He has evidently attributed this

to the fact that he entered the Senate at a young age, 29, and has

been there since. He grew up in a middle class family. That he has not

gotten rich as a Senator may hold some clue to his character, hence my

mentioning it.

regards,

Dan

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Lets rememember this is a Jung grp.!

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; How about a look at the typology of the candidates?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Palin: Extraverted, sensation/feeling/ judgmental?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Mc Cain: introverted?, sensation, feeling, perceptive?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Obama: Introverted, intuitive, thinking, perceptive?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Biden??

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; Let's hear fr u on this?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; ----------------------------------

>

> & gt; We need to be compassionate to those victims of Ike who have lost

>

> EVERYTHING

>

> & gt; except the clothes they are wearing! It's not just food, water,

>

> shelter -

>

> & gt; it's EVERYTHING. Imagine this happening to you yourself.

>

> Psychologically, it is

>

> & gt; like dying alive, wh requires a huge shift in consciousness. Do

send

>

> & gt; something to help an organization like the Red Cross?

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; The world is being reminded everywhere of what values we have.

Things?

>

> & gt; Money? security? Are we givers or takers? Are we grateful for the

>

> love n courage

>

> & gt; of those who wld rescue us.The hoopla of the Conventions cost a

>

> & gt; fortune.........

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; I'm tempted to quote: " What profiteth it a man if he gain the world

>

> and

>

> & gt; loses his soul thereby? " In the end, and I am close to it

meself, it

>

> seems all I

>

> & gt; cn take w/me is what I have given away!

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; soberly but w/love

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; ao

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

> & gt; **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

>

> fashion blog,

>

> & gt; plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

>

> & gt; (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

> & gt;

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's

ultimate guide to fall TV.

>

[Guest guest]

I am certainly less knowledgable than most of those here, but I would ask if what you've pointed out here (Hero, crippled king, etc.) aren't complexes that exist within the ego rather than identifying myths. And what is the myth of this country? Or maybe a better question would be, what is the complex (and its resulting delusion) of this country, and how would each of these candidates, with their own complexes, affect that as leaders?

Joyce

Hi Joyce,

It occurred to me after I sent that previous email that rather than mythology per se maybe I should have said what archetypes might be being activated. I guess archetypes and mythology are pretty well intertwined but archetype activation would seem more Jung-y, I s'pose. *G*

I think you bring up a good point about complexes. I'm not much up on those but I think you're right in saying that they belong to the ego complex. And, of course, we all have complexes so that would apply to those candidates. Could we presume to guess what complexes they might be constellating by seeing them in action? Could we somehow fit the archetypal expressions with presumed complexes to give a picture of the candidates?

Thanks for giving me more to think about!

Blissings,

SamPsssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

[Guest guest]

Oh my,

"I fail to see why poverty is an element to be listed or even considered? Being poor may provide great experiential insight and depth as well as being born African American or w/ other such cultural or socio-economic disadvantages. Intellectual elitism and class snobbery are by nature self-limiting and are mere distractions from individuation and greater consciousness."

I am not exactly sure what the point is here??? Poverty can bring strength of character or a dismal environment for growth. Being African American is always a disadvantage? Intellectual elitism is quite satisfying at times, and a real problem at others. And class snobbery, like any snobbery is a learned perception and rather hard to get rid of by statements as above. I have in fact seen people on the lower end of the class rungs more snobbish about "others, not like us" than many well mannered upper-class ones.

All of us, I am afraid we all have complexes we are trying to become conscious of, and none of us have managed to rid ourselves of all unconscious material or have become individuated as much as we may think we are. I suppose the "oughts" and the "shoulds" will always remain with us????

So....how nice to have it all down pat. Maybe, poverty is a sign that we cannot be bought...or that material things are not important. On the other hand poverty may be involuntary and entirely too difficult to escape for many.....and breaks rather than builds character.

What was the point of the above? I cannot grasp it..How does it follow the act of being African American? All African Americans=poor? being African -American is always an economic/social disadvantage? How about being beautiful, handicapped., shy, Asian, artistic or clumsy?

We are total beings and all of life's circumstances need to be taken into account if we are to be "present" to each other. To some their circumstances lead to victory, to others perhaps defeat. But our circumstances shape us by our reactions to them.

How I long for being totally undistracted by the mere circumstances of life, complexes, symptoms so I can become... what is it? more conscious and harrumph...individuated????

Toni

Re: Re: Gentle Reminder

Re: Biden comment, etc.

I fail to see why poverty is an element to be listed or even considered? Being poor may provide great experiential insight and depth as well as being born African American or w/ other such cultural or socio-economic disadvantages. Intellectual elitism and class snobbery are by nature self-limiting and are mere distractions from individuation and greater consciousness.

Regards,

Elaine