Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Hello Harry all I can say , is you tried to help and if a person doesn't want the advice of this group them they shouldn't be on this list. everyone tried , by reading these messages. but any way we must move on! Best regards, Bonnecarre Re: wayne message for you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. > you > > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You > told > > > the > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a > trustworthy > > > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and > > > > prayers > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat > > too > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 I understand your fear of getting low Wayne, believe me, I've been type 1 diabetic since 1979 and have been through the exact road with diabetes treatment as you have been through the years. If you don't want to try lantus again, that is fine. Let me ask you though, if you want to stay on 70/30, would you be willing to let us help you carb count and get your sugars under tighter control? I will tell you this wayne, I do not use lantus myself. I use ultralente for long acting and humalog for quick acting. The reason we are suggesting that you get on a long acting insuin, be it lantus or ultrelente, is so that we can fine tune the long acting and the quick acting. If they are both in 1 type of insulin, the 70/30, you can not fine tune the insulins and your sugars. So, if you get on a long acting insulin, be it lantus or ultrelente, and then get on humalog for quick acting, we can teach you how to carb count. It is simple man. You take 1 unit of humalog per 15 grams of carbs you eat. If you ate 2 pieces of toast for breakfast, that would be 30 grams of carbs so you dose 2 units of humalog. It really is that simple. However, you can not do this modern approach to diabetes if you do not get off 70/30 and onto a type of long acting insulin and quick acting. The reason harry and myself suggested lantus is because it does not have a peek in it like ultrelente does. Lantus would help us help you better since we could start you out on a very low dose *make certain* you would not get low on it. Ultrelente makes it harder to adjust it since it has a 6 hour peek that drops your sugar so it is easier to help a person get regulated by using a long acting insulin that doesn't have a peek in it such as lantus. This way, we are only dealing with 1 peek action.. the humalog/quick acting insulin. The only way you can get low wayne is if you take to much insulin. Bottom line, the only way you can get low is from taking to much insulin. You got low because your doctor started you on to much lantus it is that simple. So, if we would start you out on a really low dose of lantus, you would not go low. Your sugar would be high in the morning and based off that high sugar reading, we would slowly increase the lantus by 1 or 2 units each evening until your morning sugar was 80 to 120. It is safe and you can trust us. If you only took 3 or 5 units of lantus, you could not pass out man. I guarantee it. Like Hary was saying in his post to you, we would need you to check your sugar before each meal and 2 hours after eating a meal and post your sugar results to the list. This way, we can read your sugars and help you adjust the insulin both the humalog and the long acting whatever you would decide to go on. Regards, Re: wayne message for you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you > > clearly > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > it > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and > prayers > > of > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too > who > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 LOL LOL LOL. Harry put the gun away partner *smile* Wayne is just scared of getting low really. Wayne, try to understand what Harry is saying here. All he is saying is that you took to much lantus and went low. Lantus is not the problem, your not understanding carb counting and how to use that method to regulate your sugar is the problem. We want to help train you in carb counting and how to adjust your own insulin. We adjust our own insulin and don't need a doctor to help us do that. This is how I have been trained by modern doctors. They teach us wayne how to adjust our insulins. We no longer go to a doctor to do it, the doctor trained me how to do it. The only thing I call my doctor for is a refill on my insulin and never have to go into see her since my sugars are so well regulated. Regards, Re: wayne message for you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you > > > clearly > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told > the > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and > > prayers > > > of > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too > > who > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Wayne emailed me off list and asked me to phone him. I did phone him and spoke with him for about an hour this evening. I now understand why he is afraid of taking lantus, he has had so much happen to him in the past 8 months that there is no way he could express it via email. He was trying to, but all he could get out was lantus doesn't work for me but that wasn't at all the real issue. Any how, to make a long story short, he is calling his doctor tomorrow to get a script for lantus and humalog and I'll be working with him on carb counting. He is going to resubscribe to the list as well. Regards, Re: wayne message for you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. > you > > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You > told > > > the > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a > trustworthy > > > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and > > > > prayers > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat > > too > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 , I am glad you took the extra step of calling Wayne and talking with him. I sent him some messages privately, and he said he would re-subscribe to the list serve, which is a step in the right direction. I am glad he is beginning to finally make the connection between carb counting and insulin dosing. This is a positive sign, and I do look forward to his joining us again. I really do care about that old fart! I thankyou for your intervention, which is probably the turning point in Waynes's diabetes management and control. I certainly hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 JOY!!! JOY!!! JOY!!! Rita > Wayne emailed me off list and asked me to phone him. I did phone him and > spoke with him for about an hour this evening. I now understand why he is > afraid of taking lantus, he has had so much happen to him in the past 8 > months that there is no way he could express it via email. He was trying to, > but all he could get out was lantus doesn't work for me but that wasn't at > all the real issue. Any how, to make a long story short, he is calling his > doctor tomorrow to get a script for lantus and humalog and I'll be working > with him on carb counting. He is going to resubscribe to the list as well. > > Regards, > > Re: wayne message for > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. > > you > > > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You > > told > > > > the > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a > > trustworthy > > > > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs > and > > > > > prayers > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for > Pat > > > too > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. > Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 You've got that right Harry. It is thanks to 's intervention! Rita > , > I am glad you took the extra step of calling Wayne and talking with him. I > sent him some messages privately, and he said he would re-subscribe to the > list serve, which is a step in the right direction. > I am glad he is beginning to finally make the connection between carb > counting and insulin dosing. > This is a positive sign, and I do look forward to his joining us again. > I really do care about that old fart! > I thankyou for your intervention, which is probably the turning point in > Waynes's diabetes management and control. > I certainly hope so! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 I'm so glad he is coming back to the list and that he is going to let you help him. Sharon Re: wayne message for > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. > > you > > > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You > > told > > > > the > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a > > trustworthy > > > > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs > and > > > > > prayers > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for > Pat > > > too > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. > Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Hi all. Wayne is gunna make it folks. He just needed to verbally explain where he was coming from since there was no way he could adequately express it via email. I'm excited to be working with him and once he is rejoined, I'm sure he will be around asking some questions. For the first time in Wayne's life, he has hope! He/I have went through the same forms of diabetic treatment both of us being diagnosed in the 1970's and most of the stuff I shared with him he was not aware of. For example, that R insulin has an 8 hour tail effect that cracks your sugar super hard and makes you go low. R insulin takes 45 minutes to begin working and peeks in 5 hours and then has an 8 hour tail effect. Humalog begins working in 20 minutes, peeks in 2 hours, and is out of your body in 4 hours with no tail effect. I explained this to him and he then realized it wasn't the lantus that made him go low and was the R insulin. Wayne has had some life threatening incidents with low sugars and he can explain if he wants to once he is back on list. Based on the low sugar episodes, which were extremely bad, bad enough to send a chill up my spine, he was scared to try anything new it was his life he was messing with. Well, good news! After me/him talking for an hour or so he understood that what we all were saying made sense and I was a living testimony of a type 1 diabetic, long term, getting tight control and he is all for it. I explained to him that lantus did not have a peek action and it was the R insulin that did it and he really had a firm understanding and knew it was the R after I explained it to him. Only thing he asked me though was... " why didn't my doctor ever tell me any of this? " which is a common question I hear many diabetics ask me after I help get them under tight control. Doctors, for the most part, don't educate patients on insulin's and carb counting. I explained to him that my doc was 33 and wants me to adjust my own insulin and taught me carb counting etc. He agreed that the new generation of doctors coming out have a better understanding on how to treat diabetes via carb counting and and the older schooled doctors just either don't know about it, or just don't educate their patients on it. I'm excited that Wayne is open minded to this and he flat out told me " yes, I want your help " . Hurray! That is what all of this is about... helping save a fellow diabetics life! BTW I'm not tooting my own horn here, I'm just excited that Wayne reached out. I flat out told him I was scared for his life and he was as well and the conversation went well past that point. Regards, Re: wayne message for you > , > I am glad you took the extra step of calling Wayne and talking with him. I > sent him some messages privately, and he said he would re-subscribe to the > list serve, which is a step in the right direction. > I am glad he is beginning to finally make the connection between carb > counting and insulin dosing. > This is a positive sign, and I do look forward to his joining us again. > I really do care about that old fart! > I thankyou for your intervention, which is probably the turning point in > Waynes's diabetes management and control. > I certainly hope so! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 well I'm glad that it worked out fine with the two of you. and I'm glad that you took the time to get this straightened out wayne is just probally frustrated and seems to want to give up. but there is hope for him and I hope you guys can work with him. Best regards, Bonnecarre Re: wayne message for > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > > > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. > > you > > > > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > > made a > > > > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You > > told > > > > the > > > > > > > truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a > > trustworthy > > > > > friend > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs > and > > > > > prayers > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for > Pat > > > too > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > > > out to > > > > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. > Rita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 , putting it simply, it is beyond words how much I admire and respect you. Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 ah shucks, *blush*, thanks. Really though, I care about people and don't want to see any diabetic suffer from this disease when they do not have to. I think the most exciting thing to me will be to hear Wayne and his positive feelings/reactions after he has been regulated for 3 weeks. That is the most rewarding thing to me to hear a diabetic say I feel like a new person! It is great to be able to offer Wayne new hope and that just gets me so excited! Regards, Re: wayne message for you > , putting it simply, it is beyond words how much I admire and > respect you. > Rita > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 I'm behind in answering Emails as I have been in chicago area for the last week. I have been diabetic 59 years! I am also a retired Rn. and I can absolutely tell you that doctors are not even close to god! I saw 3 endocrinologist before I found one I liked who was open to conversation and who is willing to listen to me. It is not only okay to questions them, but to tell them about things you have read or heard about. If he/she is not willing to listen and explain, then find someone else. Re: wayne message for you yes, we know our stuff since we live it every day. Harry has been diabetic for 16 plus years, me for 30, pat on list for I'd say at least 30, and we know what works. Thanks for sharing with us, I found it interesting that others are realizing that doctors are not the only ones educated around here *smile*. BTW Bill knows his stuff, Mark who has just joined us low carbing knows his stuff, and am certain others as well. Sorry if I am forgetting any names. BTW Harry did have a good well thought out reply to Wayne, after all he was a clinical psychologist *smile*. Wayne is used to thinking that doctors know best and how can he trust a bunch of cyber space gung ho diabetics who aren't doctors. I understand that feeling and can appreciate it but I'd just like to say look at the numbers. This is how you know if we know our stuff. Look at our a1c readings, our blood sugar results, and our cholesterol levels. We can repost all of them again for folks to see but most here have seen them in times past and know that what we are doing works and that we know our stuff. It really is just a matter of applying it/the knowledge. Regards, Re: wayne message for you > > > > > > Dear and Wayne, > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly > made a > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings. > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth > > > and > it > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend > > > and > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who > > pointed > out to > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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