Re: wayne message for you

[Guest guest]

I personally believe in the power of Prayer. if we all that care about Wayne

on this list, and I believe that we all do, then if we Pray for him to come

around and see the truth of how it is, then our Prayers will be answered and

Wayne will choose to live. I have been very hard headed in my life before,

most of us want to believe that doctors know what they are talking about.

but I now realize that the doctors only know what they were taught and what

is written down in there medical books. that by the way, were probably

written more then twenty years ago or more. Wayne is still posting to this

list and this shows me that he still needs your input and opinions. it is

just hard for some people to except the fact that common folks might know a

little more about some thing then a doctor that has been to school for many

years to learn some thing. I my self am totally blind and don't intend on

getting another handicap because I am simply being hard headed about my

diabetes. I tried the diabetic clinic way of eating, and it didn't work for

me. I am not on insulin at this time, nor do I take any medicine. I am

listening to the experts on this list and hopefully I will do it right and

stay off the medicine and insulin as long as possible. all we can do for

those who are slow to change is Pray for them. and this I will do as Wayne's

brother in Christ. God bless you all.

Re: wayne message for you

>

>

> Dear and Wayne,

> Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly made a

> decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth and

it

> hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

and

> you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who pointed

out to

> me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

>

[Guest guest]

Prayers are being said.

Rita

> I personally believe in the power of Prayer. if we all that care about Wayne

> on this list, and I believe that we all do, then if we Pray for him to come

> around and see the truth of how it is, then our Prayers will be answered and

> Wayne will choose to live. I have been very hard headed in my life before,

> most of us want to believe that doctors know what they are talking about.

> but I now realize that the doctors only know what they were taught and what

> is written down in there medical books. that by the way, were probably

> written more then twenty years ago or more. Wayne is still posting to this

> list and this shows me that he still needs your input and opinions. it is

> just hard for some people to except the fact that common folks might know a

> little more about some thing then a doctor that has been to school for many

> years to learn some thing. I my self am totally blind and don't intend on

> getting another handicap because I am simply being hard headed about my

> diabetes. I tried the diabetic clinic way of eating, and it didn't work for

> me. I am not on insulin at this time, nor do I take any medicine. I am

> listening to the experts on this list and hopefully I will do it right and

> stay off the medicine and insulin as long as possible. all we can do for

> those who are slow to change is Pray for them. and this I will do as Wayne's

> brother in Christ. God bless you all.

> Re: wayne message for you

> >

> >

> > Dear and Wayne,

> > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly made a

> > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth and

> it

> > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> and

> > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who pointed

> out to

> > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

> >

[Guest guest]

Wayne is facing a real dilemma here. He was raised to always believe his

doctors and his nurses, and to never doubt them. He is asking himself this

question, " Do I believe my doctor, a person I can see, feel or smell or a

pack of unseen strangers in cyberspace? "

My doctor is a trained professional, who gets money for treating me. Is it

in my best interest to get well or is it in his best interest to remain as I

am.

What will he think of me if I question his decisions.

Oh, decisions, decisions. Who do I trust? What to do, oh!, what to do,

that is the question.

From one old fart to another I say it is your call to make.

I also say I am one of the veterans who relies upon the latest technology

and medical research.

Wayne, if it will ease your mind, send me a hundred dollars for my advice.

Re: wayne message for you

>

>

> Dear and Wayne,

> Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly made a

> decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth and

it

> hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

and

> you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who pointed

out to

> me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

>

[Guest guest]

A comment from the Peanut Gallery,

One of the reasons I am blind is due to a medical miscalculation. It was

one of those things which is no one's fault in particular but the

results just didn't work out. I also did not get gobs of money for the

foul up.

One of the reasons Crystal is having some of the problems she is having

is, in my opinion, extremely poor medical advice and counseling.

I have seen, except for the doughnuts for snacks (grin), better advice

from this list than I have seen from medical sources in a long time.

I have dealt with deaf/blind multi handicapped youngsters for some forty

years and, let me tell you, an " expert " is only a drip under pressure.

I am fortunate to have a doctor who is an old fashioned type person and

is more interested in helping you get better than he is in getting rich.

Unfortunately for me he is currently in Iraq doing his thing for the

Army.

Finding a physician who is interested in their patient's welfare is a

hard thing to accomplish.

Better listen to a lay type person who is speaking from personal

experience and who keeps current on advances in the medical arena.

Oh yes, my Grandfather was, for real, the Medicine Man for the Creek

Indian Nation.

I only wish I had been a little older when he was alive to gain the

knowledge he possessed about herbs and other things available which were

actually good for the body.

Take care and, Wayne, listen to the folks who have been there and done

that.

The ancient One...

Re: wayne message for you

Wayne is facing a real dilemma here. He was raised to always believe

his doctors and his nurses, and to never doubt them. He is asking

himself this question, " Do I believe my doctor, a person I can see, feel

or smell or a pack of unseen strangers in cyberspace? " My doctor is a

trained professional, who gets money for treating me. Is it in my best

interest to get well or is it in his best interest to remain as I am.

What will he think of me if I question his decisions. Oh, decisions,

decisions. Who do I trust? What to do, oh!, what to do, that is the

question. From one old fart to another I say it is your call to make. I

also say I am one of the veterans who relies upon the latest technology

and medical research. Wayne, if it will ease your mind, send me a

hundred dollars for my advice.

Re: wayne message for you

>

>

> Dear and Wayne,

> Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

made a

> decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth

> and

it

> hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

>

and

> you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> pointed

out to

> me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

>

[Guest guest]

,

If we ever meet, I would be pleased to have the first dance.

Re: wayne message for you

> , I read this message and just have to tell you the incredible blood

> sugars I am having because of your help. I am getting so close to perfect

> and the medical professionals could never do this with me. I hope you can

> help Wayne as you have helped me. keep up the good work. best regards and

> thanks again, from Canada

>

[Guest guest]

thank you . I am so excited to see you under tighter control. Folks,

she went to the best hospital in London and they told her she was hopeless

and wood always be a brittle diabetic. Meaning, she would never run normal

blood sugars. She was on the tidal wave high/low blood sugar for years and

lost her eyesight from it, like me, and once I started working with her and

carb counting, her sugars are running near perfect. In about 1 month, we had

her sugars in normal range simply by adjusting her insulin, teaching her

carb counting, and removign quick acting carbs from her meals. Now she can

enjoy the rest of her life and doesn't have to experience any more diabetic

complications. is in her mid fifties if not mistaken so she learned a

new way of managing her diabetes having had it for years, like me and Wayne,

and changed. I am so excited to have worked with you .

God bless.

Regards,

wayne message for you

>

>

> > Wayne, no matter what you do, or have to do, or how you have to do it,

> what medications you use, keep your pre meal sugar 80 and your two hour

post

> meal sugar 120 or less. If you do that, I can guarantee that your diabetic

> complications will reduce and you can live a long and productive life.

There

> is no reason Wayne for you to have to have so much torture from the

> diabetes. You can do it Wayne, just use some of the information we are

> sharing with you on list. I know you have read our information, I know you

> know that what we are saying works, you see our blood work and blood sugar

> results by low carbing, so please, consider doing it Wayne. I recall

reading

> a post from you that stated you would not eat like a rabbit, implying that

> low carbing was not for you. However Wayne, whatever you are doing now is

> 100% not working. You are always in/out of the hospital, medical staff at

> your house, you lost your leg, have had kidney problems, your health is

> quickly declining, etc. All this is a result of not using modern

techniques

> and strategies to fight diabetes. There is no reason you have to

experience

> this type of difficulty with your diabetes.

> >

> > Please consider changing your ways and letting us here help you. It is

> your life we want to help you spare Wayne.

> >

> > I don't care if no one else will be this frank with you, I will be

Wayne.

> I care about you and want you to live a productive life. I've seen nothing

> but health declineing posts from you and it is scareing me. You are

quickly

> heading to the grave and don't have to at all. Let me be blunt... stop

being

> stubborn, you know what we are saying is true, just consider doing it and

> changing Wayne. I am shooting from the hip to you Wayne because I care

about

> your health and I can see you dieing in the next 2 years if you don't

change

> immediately.

> >

> > you are on older insulins that are not effective and you need to get on

> lantus and humalog to help with the carbs, learn how to carb count, and

> stop letting this diabetes rule your life, you can start to rule it via

> modern techniques and medications and reverse the onset of the

complications

> you are starting to have.

> >

> > Please let me know your thoughts on my email to you, I'd like to know

what

> you think. Again, I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to offer some

> friendly encouragement. I'm extremely serious when I say within the next 2

> years you could die and I base this hunch off the onset of complications

you

> are having simply from not controlling your blood sugars. I am certain you

> try Wayne, it is just the medications and strategies you are using are

from

> 1970 and no longer are effective.

> >

> > Please do not get upset at me for posting this to you, I care about you.

> If you don't want to get our help, that is ok I guess but I just could not

> sit by and see a fellow human suffering and heading towards an early grave

> without speaking up.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

yes, we know our stuff since we live it every day. Harry has been diabetic

for 16 plus years, me for 30, pat on list for I'd say at least 30, and we

know what works. Thanks for sharing with us, I found it interesting that

others are realizing that doctors are not the only ones educated around here

*smile*.

BTW Bill knows his stuff, Mark who has just joined us low carbing knows his

stuff, and am certain others as well. Sorry if I am forgetting any names.

BTW Harry did have a good well thought out reply to Wayne, after all he was

a clinical psychologist *smile*. Wayne is used to thinking that doctors know

best and how can he trust a bunch of cyber space gung ho diabetics who

aren't doctors. I understand that feeling and can appreciate it but I'd just

like to say look at the numbers. This is how you know if we know our stuff.

Look at our a1c readings, our blood sugar results, and our cholesterol

levels. We can repost all of them again for folks to see but most here have

seen them in times past and know that what we are doing works and that we

know our stuff. It really is just a matter of applying it/the knowledge.

Regards,

Re: wayne message for you

> >

> >

> > Dear and Wayne,

> > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> made a

> > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth

>

> > and

> it

> > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> >

> and

> > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > pointed

> out to

> > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

> >

[Guest guest]

and I'd be right in line for the second *smile*

Regards,

Re: wayne message for you

>

>

> > , I read this message and just have to tell you the incredible

blood

> > sugars I am having because of your help. I am getting so close to

perfect

> > and the medical professionals could never do this with me. I hope you

can

> > help Wayne as you have helped me. keep up the good work. best regards

and

> > thanks again, from Canada

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

By the way, while I am not a medical doctor, I am an approved medical

provider under the social security rules for Medicare and for Medicaid in

the state of Georgia. I have been working in the medical related field

since 1963, and my patients refer to me as Doctor Bates.

Re: wayne message for you

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> > made a

> > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth

> >

> > > and

> > it

> > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > >

> > and

> > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > pointed

> > out to

> > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > --------

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi I'm still confused of carb counting. I know you have explained it to

me. I don't want to frusterate you guys with it , but it gets

confusing for me.

Best regards,

Bonnecarre

wayne message for you

> >

> >

> > > Wayne, no matter what you do, or have to do, or how you have to do it,

> > what medications you use, keep your pre meal sugar 80 and your two hour

> post

> > meal sugar 120 or less. If you do that, I can guarantee that your

diabetic

> > complications will reduce and you can live a long and productive life.

> There

> > is no reason Wayne for you to have to have so much torture from the

> > diabetes. You can do it Wayne, just use some of the information we are

> > sharing with you on list. I know you have read our information, I know

you

> > know that what we are saying works, you see our blood work and blood

sugar

> > results by low carbing, so please, consider doing it Wayne. I recall

> reading

> > a post from you that stated you would not eat like a rabbit, implying

that

> > low carbing was not for you. However Wayne, whatever you are doing now

is

> > 100% not working. You are always in/out of the hospital, medical staff

at

> > your house, you lost your leg, have had kidney problems, your health is

> > quickly declining, etc. All this is a result of not using modern

> techniques

> > and strategies to fight diabetes. There is no reason you have to

> experience

> > this type of difficulty with your diabetes.

> > >

> > > Please consider changing your ways and letting us here help you. It is

> > your life we want to help you spare Wayne.

> > >

> > > I don't care if no one else will be this frank with you, I will be

> Wayne.

> > I care about you and want you to live a productive life. I've seen

nothing

> > but health declineing posts from you and it is scareing me. You are

> quickly

> > heading to the grave and don't have to at all. Let me be blunt... stop

> being

> > stubborn, you know what we are saying is true, just consider doing it

and

> > changing Wayne. I am shooting from the hip to you Wayne because I care

> about

> > your health and I can see you dieing in the next 2 years if you don't

> change

> > immediately.

> > >

> > > you are on older insulins that are not effective and you need to get

on

> > lantus and humalog to help with the carbs, learn how to carb count, and

> > stop letting this diabetes rule your life, you can start to rule it via

> > modern techniques and medications and reverse the onset of the

> complications

> > you are starting to have.

> > >

> > > Please let me know your thoughts on my email to you, I'd like to know

> what

> > you think. Again, I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to offer some

> > friendly encouragement. I'm extremely serious when I say within the next

2

> > years you could die and I base this hunch off the onset of complications

> you

> > are having simply from not controlling your blood sugars. I am certain

you

> > try Wayne, it is just the medications and strategies you are using are

> from

> > 1970 and no longer are effective.

> > >

> > > Please do not get upset at me for posting this to you, I care about

you.

> > If you don't want to get our help, that is ok I guess but I just could

not

> > sit by and see a fellow human suffering and heading towards an early

grave

> > without speaking up.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

well it's good to know that Harry a clinical psychologist. I'm glad that

all of you know so much cause of experiencees. I've am glad for this support

group. I've been diabetic for four years and I'm still learning. and

trying to get my sugars back to normal and my life to normal.

Best regards,

Bonnecarre

Re: wayne message for you

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> > made a

> > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the truth

> >

> > > and

> > it

> > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > >

> > and

> > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > pointed

> > out to

> > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > --------

> > >

[Guest guest]

That's Awesome for you karen!!way to go!!!

Best regards,

Bonnecarre

Re: wayne message for you

> >

> >

> > > , I read this message and just have to tell you the incredible

> blood

> > > sugars I am having because of your help. I am getting so close to

> perfect

> > > and the medical professionals could never do this with me. I hope you

> can

> > > help Wayne as you have helped me. keep up the good work. best regards

> and

> > > thanks again, from Canada

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you are not a Dr. , then what do you do in the medical feild? out here in

Arizona we have Medicare. I've heard of medicaid from others I've met when I

went to get my guide dogs in Mich.

Best regards,

Bonnecarre

Re: wayne message for you

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> > > made a

> > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

truth

> > >

> > > > and

> > > it

> > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > >

> > > and

> > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > pointed

> > > out to

> > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > --------

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I am now in retirement and no longer practice applied psychology.

Most of my life was spent in public facilities working side by side with

other practitioners like doctors, nurses and social workers providing

services to all kinds of people with physical and mental problems. I worked

in in-patient units like hospitals, out-patient units like clinics and in

private practice in my office. I also had hospital privileges just as the

medical doctors have and prescribed treatment.

I love to do research. I have been privileged to work with some of the

finest doctors and nurses in the country and to encounter all kinds of

physical and mental conditions requiring study and understanding.

I thank my many patients who taught me the best ways toward recovery and

prevention, which was very helpful for others.

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

clearly

> > > > made a

> > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> truth

> > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > it

> > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > > >

> > > > and

> > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers

of

> > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > > pointed

> > > > out to

> > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > --------

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

rharry and justen, I tryed lantis and as I said before it put my sugars on a

consistant area of forty every morning and I was not going to live that way.

there some people that lantis works fine but there are some of us that it

doesn't work. that is where I'm coming from. I have found oout that whenln

my sugar gits below one hundred it drops like a rock that is no way to

survive. and as far as my doctor is concerned he and his wife do not oput

the all mighty dollar abaouve theree patient. this message got me a bait hot

under the colleer slence you hddo not want to llisten to anlyoone ele but

your selves., friends wayne

Re: wayne message for you

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> > > made a

> > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

truth

> > >

> > > > and

> > > it

> > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > >

> > > and

> > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > pointed

> > > out to

> > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > --------

> > > >

[Guest guest]

as long as you are not related to Norman Bates I'm ok with calling you Dr.

Bates. LOL *wink*

BTW for those who are clueless... Norman Bates was the lead actor in the old

movie psycho.

Regards,

Re: wayne message for you

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you clearly

> > > made a

> > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

truth

> > >

> > > > and

> > > it

> > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > >

> > > and

> > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers of

> > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > pointed

> > > out to

> > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > --------

> > > >

[Guest guest]

it's simple, don't eat more than 15 to 30 grams of carbs per meal. Just read

the food labels, or have your boyfriend read them to you, and don't eat more

than 30 grams of carbs per meal. You also should be checking your sugar pre

meal, before you eat, and 2 hours past eating the meal adn and posting your

blood sugar results for us to help you.

Regards,

wayne message for you

> > >

> > >

> > > > Wayne, no matter what you do, or have to do, or how you have to do

it,

> > > what medications you use, keep your pre meal sugar 80 and your two

hour

> > post

> > > meal sugar 120 or less. If you do that, I can guarantee that your

> diabetic

> > > complications will reduce and you can live a long and productive life.

> > There

> > > is no reason Wayne for you to have to have so much torture from the

> > > diabetes. You can do it Wayne, just use some of the information we are

> > > sharing with you on list. I know you have read our information, I know

> you

> > > know that what we are saying works, you see our blood work and blood

> sugar

> > > results by low carbing, so please, consider doing it Wayne. I recall

> > reading

> > > a post from you that stated you would not eat like a rabbit, implying

> that

> > > low carbing was not for you. However Wayne, whatever you are doing now

> is

> > > 100% not working. You are always in/out of the hospital, medical staff

> at

> > > your house, you lost your leg, have had kidney problems, your health

is

> > > quickly declining, etc. All this is a result of not using modern

> > techniques

> > > and strategies to fight diabetes. There is no reason you have to

> > experience

> > > this type of difficulty with your diabetes.

> > > >

> > > > Please consider changing your ways and letting us here help you. It

is

> > > your life we want to help you spare Wayne.

> > > >

> > > > I don't care if no one else will be this frank with you, I will be

> > Wayne.

> > > I care about you and want you to live a productive life. I've seen

> nothing

> > > but health declineing posts from you and it is scareing me. You are

> > quickly

> > > heading to the grave and don't have to at all. Let me be blunt... stop

> > being

> > > stubborn, you know what we are saying is true, just consider doing it

> and

> > > changing Wayne. I am shooting from the hip to you Wayne because I care

> > about

> > > your health and I can see you dieing in the next 2 years if you don't

> > change

> > > immediately.

> > > >

> > > > you are on older insulins that are not effective and you need to get

> on

> > > lantus and humalog to help with the carbs, learn how to carb count,

and

> > > stop letting this diabetes rule your life, you can start to rule it

via

> > > modern techniques and medications and reverse the onset of the

> > complications

> > > you are starting to have.

> > > >

> > > > Please let me know your thoughts on my email to you, I'd like to

know

> > what

> > > you think. Again, I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to offer

some

> > > friendly encouragement. I'm extremely serious when I say within the

next

> 2

> > > years you could die and I base this hunch off the onset of

complications

> > you

> > > are having simply from not controlling your blood sugars. I am certain

> you

> > > try Wayne, it is just the medications and strategies you are using are

> > from

> > > 1970 and no longer are effective.

> > > >

> > > > Please do not get upset at me for posting this to you, I care about

> you.

> > > If you don't want to get our help, that is ok I guess but I just could

> not

> > > sit by and see a fellow human suffering and heading towards an early

> grave

> > > without speaking up.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Norman is my brother and we really love our mother!

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

clearly

> > > > made a

> > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> truth

> > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > it

> > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > > >

> > > > and

> > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers

of

> > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > > pointed

> > > > out to

> > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > --------

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Wayne.

The main point I think we are trying to convey to you Wayne is that you do

not have tight blood sugar control and you are suffering diabetic

complications as a result of that and we care about that aspect of your

life. It really isn't about lantus or anything else like that. It is us

saying you are not under tight control and there is a way to get very tight

control by using more modern approaches to diabetic management and we are

here to help if you want it. Is there a problem with careing about your

helth Wayne?

Like I said earlier, I run an a1c level of 5.3, Harry runs an a1c of 5.3 or

so, pat an a1c of 5.5, and many other run a1c levels between 5.0 to 5.5.

This is proof that what we are saying works and is medically proven by our

lab work test results. What was your last 2 a1c readings? If they were

between the range of 5.0 to 5.5 then we are all nuts and you stay on that

70/30 insulin. Proof is in the pudding Wayne, our numbers show that what we

are doing works and if your a1c level doesn't match ours, then the

strategies you are using to fight your diabetes are not working well.

Instead of getting all cranky and wound up at us Wayne, how about you set

that temper aside for a minute and really look at what we are trying to do

for you man. We care, is that a sin?

Is it wrong for us to want to try to help you use modern strategies to fight

your diabetes so you can run better blood sugars? Is it wrong that we are

concerned about your health and care that you lost your leg to diabetes and

we are scared for your life? Is that wrong?

I still am baffled as to why you are so defensive and upset with us simply

trying to help you. If you don't want the help, fine, but really I think you

are missing the care and concern we are reaching out with because of your

temper.

It has nothing to do with lantus Wayne, it has to do with us saying we care

about you and want to help you.

Regards,

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

clearly

> > > > made a

> > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> truth

> > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > it

> > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > > >

> > > > and

> > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers

of

> > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > > pointed

> > > > out to

> > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > --------

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

LOL LOL LOL.... I knew it!

Regards,

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

> clearly

> > > > > made a

> > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> > truth

> > > > >

> > > > > > and

> > > > > it

> > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy

friend

> > > > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and

prayers

> of

> > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too

who

> > > > > > pointed

> > > > > out to

> > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > --------

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Wayne, I am saying that the dose of Lantus for you was too high, and this is

why you had the low sugar reactions. Had your doctor started you on a low

dose and worked up over time, you would not have experienced any of the

problems you remember so well.

What I say might make you hot under the collar, but I still hear you

clearly:

You said, it " doesn't work. that is where I'm coming from. I have found

oout that whenln

> my sugar gits below one hundred it drops like a rock that is no way to

> survive. and as far as my doctor is concerned he and his wife do not oput

> the all mighty dollar abaouve theree patient. this message got me a bait

hot

> under the colleer slence you hddo not want to llisten to anlyoone ele but

> your selves., "

I don't blame you for not wanting to live with low sugar reactions all the

time, and that is why it is important to know how to carb count and how to

dose medications properly, so that these reactions can be avoided.

You can also deal with a low sugar reaction by having glucose tablets on

hand.

Are you telling me you don't want to get on tight glucose control, because

it requires a lot of finger sticks and all that bloody painful mess?

A lot of finger sticks with a lancet are required to gain tight control,

and yes, it is a bother and it is expensice, and it doesn't feel so good

either.

You would only have to do this until you gain mastery, which dtakes time and

practice and study. If you are on Medicare, I can see that you get all of

your insulin, monitor and test strips at practically no money cost to you.

I tell you what you can do. Make a copy of this email and take it to your

treating doctor for your diabetes and have him read it.

Tell your doctor that these folks want me to take Lantus and Humalog and

count carb grams.

Tellhim you are willing to do as the folks on this list serve say to do and

abide by the expert blind diabetics who are taking Lantus and Humalog.

Tell him to write out a prescription that reads as follows:

Lantus 2 units at night before bedtime.

Needles for syringes

Humalog 1 unit per 15 grams of carbs consumed.

Humalog pin and needles, if you use the Lily insulin, which is what I

prefer, because the Humalog pin is so convenient for dosing insulin.

If you need help in learning how to use a Humalog pin, then I can teach you,

I think, but nothing is guaranteed with you, I know.

Now crank up your printer and be sure it has some paper and ink in it and

print out this message and take it to your doctor.

Once you have the medications and glucose tablets on hand along with your

syringes and needles, we can adjust your medication doses for you as long as

you make frequent post to this list serve letting us know your carbs grams

consumed, your pre-meal glucose reading, your post meal two hour reading for

each meal of the day, your night time Lantus dose,

and any other pertinent data like your exercise program, infections, alcohol

consumption, and so forth.

Now I hope this makes you hot under the ckollar, too. Maybe then you will

do something constructive about it.

I hear you Wayne!

Do you hear me?

You can send me another $100 later for this valuable advice.

<smile>

----- Original

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

clearly

> > > > made a

> > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> truth

> > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > it

> > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy friend

> > > > >

> > > > and

> > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and prayers

of

> > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too who

> > > > > pointed

> > > > out to

> > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > --------

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

justen, I'm not mad about youl trying to help me but what makes me a bit

upset is I have tryed lantis and it did not work for me. I beleave it works

for some people but I have found out thhat when my sugars go below one

hundred it drops like a rock. that is no way to live. I have miy sugers

dropp to often to want to lbe the rest of miy life. I guess I'm just down

because of everything haoppening to me in a matter of tsen mounths. I do

know you are for the most part l right. but why are you not listsening when

I tell you that lantis does not work for me. and by the l way I have been

diabetic sence 1978 and insulen deopendant sence 1984after trying lantis for

a while and seeing where my sugars went down to lI'm afrade to try again.

friends wayne

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

> clearly

> > > > > made a

> > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told the

> > truth

> > > > >

> > > > > > and

> > > > > it

> > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy

friend

> > > > > >

> > > > > and

> > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and

prayers

> of

> > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too

who

> > > > > > pointed

> > > > > out to

> > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > --------

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Why are you not listening to me? That ought to be the question. You run on

and on about how Lantus caused you to run low blood sugars. Have you ever

figured out that the amount of the dose of Lantus is the problem and not

just Lantus?

Tell me what dose, the number of units of Lantus you took, that caused you

to run low blood sugars.

When you can answer this simple question, then I can figure that you are in

touch with reality.

Also how many grams of carbohydrates did you consume each day while taking

Lantus?

If you take Lantus, an long-acting insulin, and you do not consume

carbohydrates each day, then you will run low blood sugars.

If you take Lantus it is necessary for you to consume a minimum number of

grams of carbohydrates every day as long as you inject Lantus.

If you inject enough Lantus to handle a daily consumption of 100 grams of

carbs and you only consume50 grams of carbs, then your sugar level will run

low.

Now do you see why it is important to become a carb counter plus take the

proper dose of medication?

The two are intertwined; insulin and carb counting.

I would be scared to try Lantus, too, if it caused me to run sugar lows

consistently.

Now cut out these excuses and tell me the truth. How many carbohydrates did

you consume each day while taking Lantus, and the number of units of Lantus

ihnjected, since these two facts are necessary to establish glucose

stability in your blood stream.

If you don't know the actual numbers, then you are just pissing in the wind,

and I am afraid you are down wind.

Now you can send me another $100 for this information and treatment

recommendation.

Copy this message also and take it to your doctor.

I dare you!

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

> > clearly

> > > > > > made a

> > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told

the

> > > truth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy

> friend

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and

> prayers

> > of

> > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat too

> who

> > > > > > > pointed

> > > > > > out to

> > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > --------

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

this is the last message you will receive from me. sence a few of you like

to make a person feel like a dufis. I keep telling you that lantis for some

reason does not w;sork properly for me but you have your own way of doing

things and will not listen by the way my last two a1cs were beetwene ssix

and six point five. so I guess somethin;g is working for me. and by the way

I have no cholesteral problems, frieneds wayne

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision. you

> > > clearly

> > > > > > > made a

> > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You told

> the

> > > > truth

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a trustworthy

> > friend

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and

> > prayers

> > > of

> > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat

too

> > who

> > > > > > > > pointed

> > > > > > > out to

> > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

So, which is it nearer 6.0 or near 6.5? If your A1C's have been running

under 6.1 for the past six months, then why did you not say so in the

beginning?

It is your life and you can do with it as you please.

Your feelings are real and belong to you, and I assume no responsibility for

them.

When a person makes public statements, as is the case on a list serve, the

concerns and support for that person is evoked from fellow listers. I for

one do not believe any of the fellow listers mean you any harm at all. In

fact I sense a strong desire for them, as well as myself, to help you gain

control over your diabetes and a wish for you to have a healthy as possible

and long life.

I do not doubt that Lantus does not work for every body, but when a person

cannot tell me how much Lantus they take each day and how many carbs they

consume each day while taking Lantus, then it makes me wonder why a person

avoids such a simple and straight forward question.

It is not like I am asking about your sex life, which is none of my

business. I am not interested in your sexual habits. I am interested in

those factors related to diabetes management and control.

You have avoided telling us any thing about your insulin dosage, only to say

you take 70/30 and you have not told us how many carb grams per meal you

consume or for that matter how many grams of carbs you consume on average

every day.

Telling others about your insulin usage and diet would be good and helpful

information for others who watch here, since I am sure many may not have

access to Lantus and Humalog as I do. Sharing information concerning your

infection and subsequent amputation might be helpful to others, but I

understand, if you do not wish to inform others on how these things came to

pass for you. I am sure you wish others to avoid this fate you have

suffered, but then again, maybe not.

I wish you would stay here and at least lurk. You are a valued and

cherished member of this group.

In many instances avoidance is an excellent coping mechanism, but I have not

seen any snakes around here coiled and ready to strike.

If you wish no comment from me, just say so, and I will oblige.

Another way to avoid dealing with me is to cut and run. If you take this

latter choice, I will probably figure that this is the way you deal with

most problems in life, when confronted with difficulty.

I have been accused of being tactless by others here, but two things for

sure, I mean well and I am not a coddler.

Re: wayne message for you

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear and Wayne,

> > > > > > > > > Love is not a feeling. It is a decision.

you

> > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > made a

> > > > > > > > > decision to help one of your fellow human beings.

> > > > > > > > > It took courage, tenacity, caring and skill. You

told

> > the

> > > > > truth

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > hurts to give and to get. You are such a

trustworthy

> > > friend

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > you too Harry and all who tell the truth. Hugs and

> > > prayers

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > thanksgiving for folks like you! That goes for Pat

> too

> > > who

> > > > > > > > > pointed

> > > > > > > > out to

> > > > > > > > > me I was eating too darn much. I needed that. Rita

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > --------

> > > > > > > > >