Re: re lupron shot & scores

[Guest guest]

Let's see , you are 59 now. As far as PCa is concerned with those stats I think you can start planning your 70th birthday party, odds are high that you will still be enjoying life then. Just keep the ticker going! We'll help you find out how to put the brakes on the cancer.

re lupron shot & scores

hi group,just talked to dr's assistant.gleeson score 6psa 11.8bone scan /ct scan is cleanshe didnt see a clinical stage (t) number but will call back after talking with dr.shot (lupron) has been discounted from2500 to 1300 and they will take payments.meanwhile, everthing is set for the move to columbus oct 30.i'm currently researching ohio state university cancer center,it looks impressive since we last lived there 13 years ago.i'll keep ya updated as thing unfolds.thanks so much everyonedave craycraft

[Guest guest]

thanks

i'll be in touch

dave

>

> Let's see , you are 59 now. As far as PCa is concerned with

those stats I think you can start planning your 70th birthday party,

odds are high that you will still be enjoying life then. Just keep

the ticker going! We'll help you find out how to put the brakes on

the cancer.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> re lupron shot & scores

>

>

> hi group,

> just talked to dr's assistant.

> gleeson score 6

> psa 11.8

> bone scan /ct scan is clean

> she didnt see a clinical stage (t) number but

> will call back after talking with dr.

>

> shot (lupron) has been discounted from

> 2500 to 1300 and they will take payments.

> meanwhile, everthing is set for the move to columbus oct 30.

> i'm currently researching ohio state university cancer center,

> it looks impressive since we last lived there 13 years ago.

> i'll keep ya updated as thing unfolds.

> thanks so much everyone

> dave craycraft

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

I’m hoping that you won’t go

ahead with the discounted Lupron shot before making further investigations. I

truly believe you need to get a copy of your pathology report and see another doctor.

In the light of your treatment so far you want to make very sure that the path

report does in fact identify adenocarcinoma (the technical name for a prostate

cancer tumour) and that it does not refer to anything like “atypical

cells suspicious for adenocarcinoma” or any similar phrase. In any

event, I believe it is in your best interests to get your biopsy specimens to a

recognized laboratory before you take any final decision about treatment. A

study published a year or two back by s Hopkins on men who came to them for

treatment - they insist in such cases found, on examining the biopsy

specimens that there was what they termed a “significant percentage”

of cases where the material had been misinterpreted and where there were no

signs of cancer.

Although I have been taken to task by a

number of people both on and off the List for “pushing” the option

of Active Surveillance, please note that I am NOT suggesting that you should

take any decision without referring to another doctor (as I have said in each

of my posts) BUT it seems that you may indeed have what s Hopkins defines

as an insignificant tumour that is:

1. Nonpalpable

2. Stage T1c

3. Percent free PSA 15 or

greater

4. Gleason less than 7

5. Less than three needle

cores with none greater than 50% tumour.

Although you don’t

have all this information yet, it may be worth collecting it and also reading

this article at http://tinyurl.com/arc8s before your next medical appointment

All the best

Terry Herbert

in Melbourne Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. June '04: TURP. Aug '06 PSA 27.4

My site is at www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

It is a tragedy of the world that no one

knows what he doesn’t know, and the less a man knows, the more sure he is

that he knows everything. Joyce Carey

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of CHARLES DAVID CRAYCRAFT

Sent: 18 September 2006 11:28 PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

re lupron shot & scores

hi group,

just talked to dr's assistant.

gleeson score 6

psa 11.8

bone scan /ct scan is clean

she didnt see a clinical stage (t) number but

will call back after talking with dr.

shot (lupron) has been discounted from

2500 to 1300 and they will take payments.

meanwhile, everthing is set for the move to columbus oct 30.

i'm currently researching ohio

state university cancer center,

it looks impressive since we last lived there 13 years ago.

i'll keep ya updated as thing unfolds.

thanks so much everyone

dave craycraft

[Guest guest]

So. Gleason 6. The most common Gleason score. If your PSA had been less than 9, you would have pretty much qualified as having garden-variety prostate cancer, except we're still missing a T-stage.

So I'm not really getting the urgency to have a lupron shot. Particularly since for the vast majority of men with prostate cancer, it has been shown that there is no therapeutic value to short term androgen deprivation therapy with only one agent, often referred to as "the shopping shot". It mostly makes your doctor comfortable that he's not sending you off without doing something in the unlikely event you might blame him for any progression that might occur. It mostly makes you miserable when you were feeling pretty good right along, despite having a touch of cancer.

I think the discount is a way to salvage something out of the situation for your doctor's bankroll. I'll bet he'd feel pretty silly if six weeks of Cipro had a significant effect on your PSA. He'd just feel silly (maybe), but you'd be out $1300. I think this is a waste of your money and your doctor is trying to capitalize on your fears. But I'm "just a woman" and a pretty cynical one at that, and anyway this is just my opinion, but it IS your money, so if I were you, I'd look into whether or not you really NEED to spend $1300 on something that's not likely to make any difference in your outcome. Dr. Dattoli would certainly be able to give you a second opinion on that on the phone.

And by the way, once you've had hormonal manipulation, you will lose the benefit of being able to monitor the PSA as an indicator of the tempo of the disease because your PSA will very likely drop like a rock and stay low and stable, which may be comforting, but not particularly useful in terms of figuring out how to proceed to resolve your little prostate problem. You need to enlist the help of a M.D. (Medical Detective) that can help you find the solution that's neither going to overtreat or undertreat your stage and grade of disease and that fits with your age, your other health concerns, your expectations for future quality of life, etc, etc, etc. That will take some time, during which you can monitor your PSA carefully to get a feeling for whether or not your PSA is rising quickly or remaining relatively constant. Anyway, I wish we had some PSA history to go on. You've probably had prostate cancer for many years. The difference between then and now is that then you didn't know it and now you do. Your cancer isn't going to grow any faster now than it did then just because now you know you have it and then you didn't, so you've gone years without a lupron shot or any other treatment already, and so my intution is that if you find that your PSA is just creeping along, or better yet that your initial PSA was inflated due to benign causes, you could just proceed to choose a local treatment and see if your treating physician feels you would benefit from any sort of course of androgen deprivation therapy before, during or after your local treatment. Hopefully this physician whomever that turns out to be, will know that the first rule of medicine is "Do no harm" and therefore he or she will have the good sense to pre-treat with an anti-androgen if an LHRH agonist is to be used. You should really see if your library has a copy of the Primer (we've donated quite a few to Florida libraries) and look carefully at the information about what various agents used in androgen deprivation therapy are used for and read up on the "Androgen Deprivation Syndrome" which affects men in various ways, some more, some less.

Anyway, as I say, this is just my opinion and I'm sure there will be those opinions that differ from mine, but in the end, the only ones that count are yours and your new doctor's.

Let us know when you get a T-stage.

Donna Pogliano

Co-author of "A Primer on Prostate Cancer, The Empowered Patient's Guide"

re lupron shot & scores

hi group,just talked to dr's assistant.gleeson score 6psa 11.8bone scan /ct scan is cleanshe didnt see a clinical stage (t) number but will call back after talking with dr.shot (lupron) has been discounted from2500 to 1300 and they will take payments.meanwhile, everthing is set for the move to columbus oct 30.i'm currently researching ohio state university cancer center,it looks impressive since we last lived there 13 years ago.i'll keep ya updated as thing unfolds.thanks so much everyonedave craycraft

[Guest guest]

thanks donna,

you have given me a lot to consider. i just posted what scores

yesterday (gleeson 3+3=6,psa 11.8,BUT they couldn't find my T stage

numbers. i kepted pushing and she said she would call back. she

called back within afew hours saying that the doctor said " that the

gleeson score is yout T stage " also i called my cardio and im

getting the feeling that he wasn't consulted about the cancer

treatment and if i can tolerate it (of course he want to see me).

somethings not right, my gut tells me to move to columbus and seek a

second opinion with treatment. after all thats where i'm

gonna be in less than 12 weeks. i'll feel this dr is rushing me in

to something so he can dump out of the case. i saw the change in him

as soon as i mention my failing my last stress test in sep 05 AND

THE FACT THE THERE IS NO INSURANCE. i could see he was throwing his

hands up and he said there nothing he can do and wished me good luck.

he did stress the fact that i was taking a risk (3 years dead) IF

i didn't treat it or at least get the shot to buy time. i understand

that it's a business and he has to cover his butt,but all i want is

the information and i feel like because of the above, i'm pulling

teeth here to get it.

hmmmmmmmm.

i got keep you updated.

>

> So. Gleason 6. The most common Gleason score. If your PSA had

been less than 9, you would have pretty much qualified as having

garden-variety prostate cancer, except we're still missing a T-

stage.

>

> So I'm not really getting the urgency to have a lupron shot.

Particularly since for the vast majority of men with prostate

cancer, it has been shown that there is no therapeutic value to

short term androgen deprivation therapy with only one agent, often

referred to as " the shopping shot " . It mostly makes your doctor

comfortable that he's not sending you off without doing something in

the unlikely event you might blame him for any progression that

might occur. It mostly makes you miserable when you were feeling

pretty good right along, despite having a touch of cancer.

>

> I think the discount is a way to salvage something out of the

situation for your doctor's bankroll. I'll bet he'd feel pretty

silly if six weeks of Cipro had a significant effect on your PSA.

He'd just feel silly (maybe), but you'd be out $1300. I think this

is a waste of your money and your doctor is trying to capitalize on

your fears. But I'm " just a woman " and a pretty cynical one at

that, and anyway this is just my opinion, but it IS your money, so

if I were you, I'd look into whether or not you really NEED to spend

$1300 on something that's not likely to make any difference in your

outcome. Dr. Dattoli would certainly be able to give you a second

opinion on that on the phone.

>

> And by the way, once you've had hormonal manipulation, you will

lose the benefit of being able to monitor the PSA as an indicator of

the tempo of the disease because your PSA will very likely drop like

a rock and stay low and stable, which may be comforting, but not

particularly useful in terms of figuring out how to proceed to

resolve your little prostate problem. You need to enlist the help

of a M.D. (Medical Detective) that can help you find the solution

that's neither going to overtreat or undertreat your stage and grade

of disease and that fits with your age, your other health concerns,

your expectations for future quality of life, etc, etc, etc. That

will take some time, during which you can monitor your PSA carefully

to get a feeling for whether or not your PSA is rising quickly or

remaining relatively constant. Anyway, I wish we had some PSA

history to go on. You've probably had prostate cancer for many

years. The difference between then and now is that then you didn't

know it and now you do. Your cancer isn't going to grow any faster

now than it did then just because now you know you have it and then

you didn't, so you've gone years without a lupron shot or any other

treatment already, and so my intution is that if you find that your

PSA is just creeping along, or better yet that your initial PSA was

inflated due to benign causes, you could just proceed to choose a

local treatment and see if your treating physician feels you would

benefit from any sort of course of androgen deprivation therapy

before, during or after your local treatment. Hopefully this

physician whomever that turns out to be, will know that the first

rule of medicine is " Do no harm " and therefore he or she will have

the good sense to pre-treat with an anti-androgen if an LHRH agonist

is to be used. You should really see if your library has a copy of

the Primer (we've donated quite a few to Florida libraries) and look

carefully at the information about what various agents used in

androgen deprivation therapy are used for and read up on

the " Androgen Deprivation Syndrome " which affects men in various

ways, some more, some less.

>

> Anyway, as I say, this is just my opinion and I'm sure there will

be those opinions that differ from mine, but in the end, the only

ones that count are yours and your new doctor's.

>

> Let us know when you get a T-stage.

>

> Donna Pogliano

> Co-author of " A Primer on Prostate Cancer, The Empowered Patient's

Guide "

>

> re lupron shot & scores

>

>

> hi group,

> just talked to dr's assistant.

> gleeson score 6

> psa 11.8

> bone scan /ct scan is clean

> she didnt see a clinical stage (t) number but

> will call back after talking with dr.

>

> shot (lupron) has been discounted from

> 2500 to 1300 and they will take payments.

> meanwhile, everthing is set for the move to columbus oct 30.

> i'm currently researching ohio state university cancer center,

> it looks impressive since we last lived there 13 years ago.

> i'll keep ya updated as thing unfolds.

> thanks so much everyone

> dave craycraft

>

[Guest guest]

The T stage isn't on my biopsy report. Is this on another report?

---

Jim Manley's Photoshop Elements Page

http://www.geocities.com/jim_p_manley/index.html

http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Photoshop_Elements

God's Plan for Salvation

http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Gods_plan/Welcome.html

I am 58 years old, PSA 7.4, diagnosed 8-9-06

Gleason 5+4=9, hasn't gone into the bone yet,

has spread to lungs & bladder. Taking Casodex

pills & Zoledex shots. I am convinced that the

Lord Jesus Christ (GOD) will heal me as a testimony

to his love. 2 Chronicles 20

> So. Gleason 6. The most common Gleason score. If your PSA had

> been less than 9, you would have pretty much qualified as having

> garden-variety prostate cancer, except we're still missing a T-stage.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy, My Urologist gave me a book on the T system which I have

read. I just don't have a T rating unless it is on another report

that I am unaware of.

---

Jim Manley's Photoshop Elements Page

http://www.geocities.com/jim_p_manley/index.html

http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Photoshop_Elements

God's Plan for Salvation

http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Gods_plan/Welcome.html

I am 58 years old, PSA 7.4, diagnosed 8-9-06

Gleason 5+4=9, hasn't gone into the bone yet,

has spread to lungs & bladder. Taking Casodex

pills & Zoledex shots. I am convinced that the

Lord Jesus Christ (GOD) will heal me as a testimony

to his love. 2 Chronicles 20

> Jim,

>

> This a staging designation that the doctor will assign based on all

> the

> information that he has.

>

> In the VPCC Reseource Guide you will have them listed, there are

> various

> staging systems.

>

> It might help you to read the entire Resource Guide so you have good

> basic information.

>

> http://www.vapcacoalition.org/Docs/PCaResourceGuide.pdf

>

> KAthy

>

> > --- Re: re lupron shot & scores

> >

> > Date: Tue, September 19, 2006 3:25 pm

> > To: ProstateCancerSupport

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The T stage isn't on my biopsy report. Is this on another report?

> > ---

> > Jim Manley's Photoshop Elements Page

> > http://www.geocities.com/jim_p_manley/index.html

> > http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Photoshop_Elements

> >

> > God's Plan for Salvation

> > http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Gods_plan/Welcome.html

> >

> > I am 58 years old, PSA 7.4, diagnosed 8-9-06

> > Gleason 5+4=9, hasn't gone into the bone yet,

> > has spread to lungs & bladder. Taking Casodex

> > pills & Zoledex shots. I am convinced that the

> > Lord Jesus Christ (GOD) will heal me as a testimony

> > to his love. 2 Chronicles 20

> >

> >

> >

> > > So. Gleason 6. The most common Gleason score. If your PSA had

> > > been less than 9, you would have pretty much qualified as having

> > > garden-variety prostate cancer, except we're still missing a T-

> stage.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You have to call the doctor's office and ask. You may have enough

information to do the staging yourself but maybe not.

Kathy

> --- Re: re lupron shot & scores

> > >

> > > Date: Tue, September 19, 2006 3:25 pm

> > > To: ProstateCancerSupport

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The T stage isn't on my biopsy report. Is this on another report?

> > > ---

> > > Jim Manley's Photoshop Elements Page

> > > http://www.geocities.com/jim_p_manley/index.html

> > > http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Photoshop_Elements

> > >

> > > God's Plan for Salvation

> > > http://web.mac.com/jamespmanley/iWeb/Gods_plan/Welcome.html

> > >

> > > I am 58 years old, PSA 7.4, diagnosed 8-9-06

> > > Gleason 5+4=9, hasn't gone into the bone yet,

> > > has spread to lungs & bladder. Taking Casodex

> > > pills & Zoledex shots. I am convinced that the

> > > Lord Jesus Christ (GOD) will heal me as a testimony

> > > to his love. 2 Chronicles 20

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > So. Gleason 6. The most common Gleason score. If your PSA had

> > > > been less than 9, you would have pretty much qualified as having

> > > > garden-variety prostate cancer, except we're still missing a T-

> > stage.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>