Re: More on digestive probs with a-fib

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/01 5:43:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

sraichel@... writes:

<< am just curious because my afib seems to be closely related with anxiety,

in spite of the fact that it's not a terribly popular viewpoint. Sandy >>

I think that, in my case, anxiety does not directly trigger afib, but anxiety

or stress can trigger digestive upset, which definitely can trigger afib. I

have identified a variety of triggers, however, most of which cause problems

only when my digestive system is already upset: bending over, eating while in

a less than upright position, losing sleep, excessive heat, not eating

regularly, intensive and prolonged singing, high fiber foods, acidic foods or

drink, and other specific foods which I avoid. Perhaps the reason that many

do not connect anxiety with afib is the fact that the afib often appears

after the stress is over, a day or two later. As I have noted before, the

stress/afib connection for me is similar to the stress/migraine connection.

[Guest guest]

Hi dg --

Do you agree with your doctor? I am just curious because my afib seems to be

closely related with anxiety, in spite of the fact that it's not a terribly

popular viewpoint. Sandy

Re: More on digestive probs with a-fib

ya know my doc thinks that my anxiety bring on and controls the whole a fib

with me

any way just my 2 cents

take care

dg

[Guest guest]

I think there is an intertwined relationship between afib and

anxiety. I developed my initial afib attacks and diagnosis at a time

of a very stressful situation, but I have numerous times woken up

thinking I was having an anxiety attack and then realized that it was

afib. On the other hand the high stress may have been partly the

physical symptoms of the afib. But anxiety raises adrenalin(sp?)

which makes afib worse. A rat's nest.

However, I am almost certain that being anxious makes my afib worse.

That's why I no longer immediately feel my pulse if I think something

is going on, because I used to follow this pattern: feel something in

chest, take pulse and confirm it, panic, feel pulse rev right up and

go more nuts as I panic. Now I do this: feel something in chest, do

relaxation stuff for awhile, feel pulse and often it is calm.

My doc had previously prescribed Ativan, a tranq, and urged me to

take it and take more for dealing with afib panic, but it made things

much worse because dependency/withdrawal symptoms of Ativan cause

heart problems.

I would love to be able to take something that would help me deal

with afib more calmly, but I distrust all shrink meds at this point.

I do find accupuncture for relaxation helps a lot.

Trudy

[Guest guest]

yes its like the chicken and hen if your a mild anxiety or better i think it

can do you in

i ended up in er 83 wicked anxiety attack too much expresso , scotch, cigs

havent had a prob til now last 8 monthes lot obusiness prob.. life prob on

and on

yes i think that a small feeling here and the anxiety picks it up your in a

race

gl

dg

[Guest guest]

Hi , this is a really interesting mail for me.

I agree with you on the feelings we get as you have described.

I get these feeling just before I go into AF, also I feel a great

craving for sweet thing, like chocolate.

I have mentioned this to my EP many times and he tells me that this

is what is causing me to go into AF.

I have noticed though , especially now that when getting a bout of

Ectopics. These are the skipped beats and I know I am getting them as it

shown up on my recent Holter.

II get this feeling, so my argument it's the Ectopic beats that

cause this anxiety and not the Anxiety causing the AF.

I would suggest that a lot of research needs to be done on this subject as

Drs love to state this is all in your mind and its anxiety causing your

problems etc.

A very interesting mail from you and thanks.

Regards

C

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[Guest guest]

Codling, Codling, wrote :

> I have mentioned this to my EP many times and he tells me that this

>is what is causing me to go into AF.

> I have noticed though , especially now that when getting a bout of

>Ectopics. These are the skipped beats and I know I am getting them as it

>shown up on my recent Holter.

,

I have, as you may have gathered, been relatively recently indoctrinated

into the ablate-ectopic-foci-stop-AF theory, and am still having some

trouble with it. What I know for myself is that if my digestion goes

awry and I get gastric pain, and wind etc, then I get an increase in

ectopics and then go into AF. So my question is, how do you stop

ectopics by ablating the focus if the ectopics are caused by some

gastric upset - is this because these ectopics are re-entrant rather

than focal? i.e. are there 2 sorts of ectopics like that?

(note to self - must get that book by Waktarie and Camm you gave me the

details of)

Best of health to all,

Vicky

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" Science may be described as the art of systematic over-simplification "

- Karl Popper

" All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, then it is

violently

opposed, finally it is accepted as self evident. " - Schopenhauer

" Wisdom is the quality that keeps you from getting into situations where we

need it " - Doug Larsen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - -

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . It would be nice to start some research of our own on all this,

since we're stuck with

observing it, in any case. I feel cravings for sweet things all the time so I'm

not sure that's much of

an indicator. I'll keep an eye on that, though. Did he tell you to keep away

from sweets? Mine just

singled out caffeine in all forms, including chocolate, so far. Speaking of

which, I've been cataloging

the supplements I've been taking and found some hidden caffeine in the

" Metabolic Activator. " Must be

the Kola Nut extract, which converts to caffeine. So I eliminated it from use,

today.

Since I'm writing anyway, I have to ask about the Polo Mints. I'm a horse lover

and I can't see any

connection between Polo and the shape of the Lifesaver candy (basically a tiny

donut shape). What's

the etiology of the Polo Mint name, I wonder?

Cheers!

>

> Hi , this is a really interesting mail for me.

> I agree with you on the feelings we get as you have described.

>

> I get these feeling just before I go into AF, also I feel a great

> craving for sweet thing, like chocolate.

> I have mentioned this to my EP many times and he tells me that this

> is what is causing me to go into AF.

> I have noticed though , especially now that when getting a bout of

> Ectopics. These are the skipped beats and I know I am getting them as it

> shown up on my recent Holter.

> II get this feeling, so my argument it's the Ectopic beats that

> cause this anxiety and not the Anxiety causing the AF.

> I would suggest that a lot of research needs to be done on this subject as

> Drs love to state this is all in your mind and its anxiety causing your

> problems etc.

>

> A very interesting mail from you and thanks.

>

> Regards

> C

>

>

> **********************************************************************

> This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

> If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

> by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> without retaining a copy.

>

> **********************************************************************

[Guest guest]

>,

>

>I have, as you may have gathered, been relatively recently indoctrinated

>into the ablate-ectopic-foci-stop-AF theory, and am still having some

>trouble with it. What I know for myself is that if my digestion goes

>awry and I get gastric pain, and wind etc, then I get an increase in

>ectopics and then go into AF. So my question is, how do you stop

>ectopics by ablating the focus if the ectopics are caused by some

>gastric upset - is this because these ectopics are re-entrant rather

>than focal? i.e. are there 2 sorts of ectopics like that?

>

Hi Vicky, sorry to butt in

there's lots of interesting bits about this at

http://www.hodi.com/cardiology/Chapters/ch27.html

it's one of my worries with ablation an why I think there is a low success rate.

If there is some rouge spot on the heart/veins repeatedly sending out false

firing messages then I can see how ablating that spot could help. (I think once

AF gets going though, it is self sustaining and the focal point can stop

misbehaving but you remain in AF). If there are many focal points that can

trigger AF there may be an argument for letting them misbehave but stopping the

re-entrant nature of AF by linear ablation (or the maze if you are brave

enough). My current feeling is that I'm not sure enough that all of my AFs start

from one or a few focal points to go down the ablation road. Linear ablation and

maze are currently sitting in a different ball park to me and I think it will

take some serious persuading before I'll consider these. I'm more interested in

what makes these points misbehave - if they can behave themselves 14 out of 15

days I should be able to persuade them to behave all the time without burning

the little critters shouldn't I?

My current investigation is on the strange ion balancing act that is going on

inside and outside of the cells - I can't help wondering if digestive trouble

doesn't mess with this balancing act in some way.

>(note to self - must get that book by Waktarie and Camm you gave me the

>details of)

I can second that it's a good book- well worth a read.

cheers

--

D

[Guest guest]

> So my question is, how do you stop

> >ectopics by ablating the focus if the ectopics are caused by some

> >gastric upset - is this because these ectopics are re-entrant

rather

> >than focal? i.e. are there 2 sorts of ectopics like that?

What's re-entract vs. focal? Thanks,

Trudy

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky, Not sure about this one. Personally I believe the ectopis

come from somewhere in the heart, The side effect is the gastric problems. I

do get the bloating sometimes but no other problems with the exception of

wind but this I put down to the drugs. I believe the problems with lone AF

are all electrical and this causes side effects , such as gastric anxiety

etc. Not the other way around,

By the way I am not sure if I have mentioned this but I am famous.

In the Waktarie Book, it is my Holter ECG on page 30 that they have used,

The ECG was a Ten point digital Holter taken in 1999 and it showed my heart

with ectopics going into AF. Johan Watarie informed this to me last Friday.

Grab a Copy it is hard going but the more I read it the easier it

gets. By the way I am not receiving anything for this advert.

Regards

C

I have, as you may have gathered, been relatively recently

indoctrinated

into the ablate-ectopic-foci-stop-AF theory, and am still having

some

trouble with it. What I know for myself is that if my digestion

goes

awry and I get gastric pain, and wind etc, then I get an increase in

ectopics and then go into AF. So my question is, how do you stop

ectopics by ablating the focus if the ectopics are caused by some

gastric upset - is this because these ectopics are re-entrant rather

than focal? i.e. are there 2 sorts of ectopics like that?

(note to self - must get that book by Waktarie and Camm you gave me

the

details of)

Best of health to all,

Vicky

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" Science may be described as the art of systematic

over-simplification "

- Karl Popper

" All truth goes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, then it

is violently

opposed, finally it is accepted as self evident. " - Schopenhauer

" Wisdom is the quality that keeps you from getting into situations

where we

need it " - Doug Larsen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

Post message: AFIBsupport

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[Guest guest]

How does a AF board get around to discuss Polo Mints. But it breaks up the

AF madness.

I do not know why its called Polo mints but you have to understand we are

English and we did suck limes.

Regards

C

Re: More on digestive probs with a-fib

Thank you, . It would be nice to start some research of our own

on all this, since we're stuck with

observing it, in any case. I feel cravings for sweet things all the

time so I'm not sure that's much of

an indicator. I'll keep an eye on that, though. Did he tell you to

keep away from sweets? Mine just

singled out caffeine in all forms, including chocolate, so far.

Speaking of which, I've been cataloging

the supplements I've been taking and found some hidden caffeine in

the " Metabolic Activator. " Must be

the Kola Nut extract, which converts to caffeine. So I eliminated it

from use, today.

Since I'm writing anyway, I have to ask about the Polo Mints. I'm a

horse lover and I can't see any

connection between Polo and the shape of the Lifesaver candy

(basically a tiny donut shape). What's

the etiology of the Polo Mint name, I wonder?

Cheers!

>

> Hi , this is a really interesting mail for me.

> I agree with you on the feelings we get as you have

described.

>

> I get these feeling just before I go into AF, also I feel a

great

> craving for sweet thing, like chocolate.

> I have mentioned this to my EP many times and he tells me

that this

> is what is causing me to go into AF.

> I have noticed though , especially now that when getting a

bout of

> Ectopics. These are the skipped beats and I know I am getting them

as it

> shown up on my recent Holter.

> II get this feeling, so my argument it's the Ectopic beats

that

> cause this anxiety and not the Anxiety causing the AF.

> I would suggest that a lot of research needs to be done on this

subject as

> Drs love to state this is all in your mind and its anxiety causing

your

> problems etc.

>

> A very interesting mail from you and thanks.

>

> Regards

> C

>

>

>

**********************************************************************

> This message may contain information which is confidential or

privileged.

> If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

> by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> without retaining a copy.

>

>

**********************************************************************

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For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

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[Guest guest]

and Vicky,

I think there are two parts to your question.

1 The pulmonary veins

2. The Linear ablation

The theory is that in some of us with AF the ectopics emanate from the

Pulmonary veins. To stop this and in the past the EP would try and get the

catheter in the veins and burn out the Foci. This proved difficult and may

cause damage to the veins.

Prof Haissaguirre invented the Lasso catheter to make a easy ablation

scarring the tops of the vein and stopping any Ectopics coming from the

offending vein. This is ok for Paroxysmal AF as you can see where the pulse

comes from. I saw and felt this when I was having the EP study.

The second part is the patient in Chronic AF. Some patients cannot be

cardioverted or if they are then they do not remain in SR for long enough

for the EP to find and ablate the spots.

A linear ablation would be required to cut whole electrical areas of the

Atria off. Prof. H informed me when a Catheter has been found that can do

this then there will be a cure for AF as good as the MAZE.

The problems a the moment when the Maze makes the Linear ablations the heart

has been stopped.

A Ep cannot do this, so a catheter has to designed that can burn a lesson in

the Atria that can be linear in depth and length.

Prof H tells me that he is working on such a Catheter and he will know in

November ready for an announcement at next years NASPE.

That's all I know.

Regards

C

Re: Re: More on digestive probs with

a-fib

>,

>

>I have, as you may have gathered, been relatively recently

indoctrinated

>into the ablate-ectopic-foci-stop-AF theory, and am still having

some

>trouble with it. What I know for myself is that if my digestion

goes

>awry and I get gastric pain, and wind etc, then I get an increase

in

>ectopics and then go into AF. So my question is, how do you stop

>ectopics by ablating the focus if the ectopics are caused by some

>gastric upset - is this because these ectopics are re-entrant

rather

>than focal? i.e. are there 2 sorts of ectopics like that?

>

Hi Vicky, sorry to butt in

there's lots of interesting bits about this at

http://www.hodi.com/cardiology/Chapters/ch27.html

it's one of my worries with ablation an why I think there is a low

success rate.

If there is some rouge spot on the heart/veins repeatedly sending

out false

firing messages then I can see how ablating that spot could help. (I

think once

AF gets going though, it is self sustaining and the focal point can

stop

misbehaving but you remain in AF). If there are many focal points

that can

trigger AF there may be an argument for letting them misbehave but

stopping the

re-entrant nature of AF by linear ablation (or the maze if you are

brave

enough). My current feeling is that I'm not sure enough that all of

my AFs start

from one or a few focal points to go down the ablation road. Linear

ablation and

maze are currently sitting in a different ball park to me and I

think it will

take some serious persuading before I'll consider these. I'm more

interested in

what makes these points misbehave - if they can behave themselves 14

out of 15

days I should be able to persuade them to behave all the time

without burning

the little critters shouldn't I?

My current investigation is on the strange ion balancing act that is

going on

inside and outside of the cells - I can't help wondering if

digestive trouble

doesn't mess with this balancing act in some way.

>(note to self - must get that book by Waktarie and Camm you gave me

the

>details of)

I can second that it's a good book- well worth a read.

cheers

--

D

Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

Post message: AFIBsupport

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