Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

June 4, 2011

Hi Krassi, Dana and others

I am so happy that you have had a good experience with Dr. Klinghardt. I don't

want to rain on anyone's parade, but I do think that it is important to share

another view of making an appointment with Dr. Klinghardt. I had a rather

negative experience at his clinic. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a

brilliant doctor and has helped many people with Lyme. I do feel though that

if you travel to see him from out of state you should know about my personal

experience as his patient.

I made two appointments with him 3 days apart about 3 months in advance. I had

to book a plane reservation and fly down to see him from Alaska, but was very

excited to have two appointments with the great Dietrich Klinghardt. It costs a

lot to fly out of Alaska and to get a room near the clinic ride the metro or

take taxis. I flew in and Dr. Klinghardt was over an hour late for my

appointment in spite of the fact that I was his first patient of the morning. I

was then called back to his office and he sat on the phone for 15 minutes

talking to someone while I was sitting at his desk waiting for him to get off.

When he finally started muscle testing me my one hour appointment actually

lasted only 45 minutes. I went to the front desk and was told that my follow up

appointment was cancelled because Dr. Klinghardt had a speaking engagement.

They said that I could go to see the Naturopath which to me took away from the

continuity and effectiveness of having the same doctor do the follow up and line

out a protocol.

I told them that my insurance would not cover the Naturopath and that my

appointment was made with Dr. Klinghardt not the Naturopath. I asked them why

they hadn't called me to let me know and they said that the opportunity to speak

just came up. They told me that Dr K's patients all know that he is kind of

eccentric. I told them that I had to fly in and they said " We consider Alaska

to be our backyard, some people fly all the way from Germany to see Dr.

Klinghardt. " I then said " you may consider Alaska to be in your backyard but

plane fare to fly to Washington is more expensive then If I had flown in from

the East coast and I am not rolling in money. " I told them that I expected to

be reimbursed for the 15 minutes that Dr. K sat on the phone and that if I was

to see Dr. Kemai his naturopath that they would need to bill my insurance so

that it appeared that I was seen by an MD. They did not want to do that and I

was referred to the office manager and explained the situation and he then told

me that they would write the bill to reflect two appointments with Dr. K. I

went away from my appointment feeling very upset and though I think it is

important for Dr. Klinghardt to go around and educate other doctors, I also felt

that things could have been handled differently.

I personally found Dr. K to be a bit arrogant. I am now going to a Doctor in

Mexico who was trained under Dr. Woitzel in Germany and he spends 4 hours with

me on initial visits, and as much time as I need on follow up appointments. He

is so warm and friendly and shows an interest in his patients. I know another

lady who has a child with Lyme who has experienced some of the same kinds of

things such as last minute cancellations of appointments and late appointments

and she also drives to see him from out of state. I do think that if you go to

see DK and travel from out of state, then it is important to know that there is

a possibility that he may cancel your appointment if he gets a better gig.

He does think outside the box as a doctor and is a great educator, but he makes

so much money that he seems to have no comprehension of what it is like to not

have a lot of money and to be forced to fly in from out of state. He also has a

whole company Biopure and he sends you home with a ton of productss from his

company. I got the Biopure muscle testing kit from a practitioner friend and I

now can muscle test any of his products on myself for much cheaper then I can

fly in to see him. My LLMD in Alaska is really on top of all of the latest in

Lyme research and often goes to the same conferences that DK goes to, so I don't

really feel the need to go back to Klinghardt.

..

> >

> > Has anyone been to see Dr. Klinghardt in Washington. I am just curious as to

cost of trip and visits and how much the initial visit would be. dana

> >

> > From: musiclady

> > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:05 PM

> > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > Subject: OT: PK Protocol Another link

> >

> > http://patriciakane.net/

> >

>

June 4, 2011

That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are - then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

I realize we all have to walk our own road and learn mostly from our own mistakes, but I wouldn't spend the money. Find a good doc in your area who will run the tests you want run, treat your thyroid/adrenal/sleep issues. And if you want to fly to WA, I can recommend my doc (who trained under Dr K, but treats way differently) and is 1/4 the price.

Maybe he is worth the price and strange protocols. Ask me in another two years when the two folks I know who are going there now have gone for about 3 or so years - we'll compare their health to mine. Maybe the $$$ will pay off - I hope so for their sake.

There is another yahoo group that is mainly based in WA. Many on that group see Dr. K and many see my doc; Dr. ES. If you want to ask over at that group I can get you the name of it.

Hi Krassi, Dana and others

I am so happy that you have had a good experience with Dr. Klinghardt. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I do think that it is important to share another view of making an appointment with Dr. Klinghardt. I had a rather negative experience at his clinic. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a brilliant doctor and has helped many people with Lyme. I do feel though that if you travel to see him from out of state you should know about my personal experience as his patient.

I made two appointments with him 3 days apart about 3 months in advance. I had to book a plane reservation and fly down to see him from Alaska, but was very excited to have two appointments with the great Dietrich Klinghardt. It costs a lot to fly out of Alaska and to get a room near the clinic ride the metro or take taxis. I flew in and Dr. Klinghardt was over an hour late for my appointment in spite of the fact that I was his first patient of the morning. I was then called back to his office and he sat on the phone for 15 minutes talking to someone while I was sitting at his desk waiting for him to get off.

When he finally started muscle testing me my one hour appointment actually lasted only 45 minutes. I went to the front desk and was told that my follow up appointment was cancelled because Dr. Klinghardt had a speaking engagement. They said that I could go to see the Naturopath which to me took away from the continuity and effectiveness of having the same doctor do the follow up and line out a protocol.

I told them that my insurance would not cover the Naturopath and that my appointment was made with Dr. Klinghardt not the Naturopath. I asked them why they hadn't called me to let me know and they said that the opportunity to speak just came up. They told me that Dr K's patients all know that he is kind of eccentric. I told them that I had to fly in and they said " We consider Alaska to be our backyard, some people fly all the way from Germany to see Dr. Klinghardt. " I then said " you may consider Alaska to be in your backyard but plane fare to fly to Washington is more expensive then If I had flown in from the East coast and I am not rolling in money. " I told them that I expected to be reimbursed for the 15 minutes that Dr. K sat on the phone and that if I was to see Dr. Kemai his naturopath that they would need to bill my insurance so that it appeared that I was seen by an MD. They did not want to do that and I was referred to the office manager and explained the situation and he then told me that they would write the bill to reflect two appointments with Dr. K. I went away from my appointment feeling very upset and though I think it is important for Dr. Klinghardt to go around and educate other doctors, I also felt that things could have been handled differently.

I personally found Dr. K to be a bit arrogant. I am now going to a Doctor in Mexico who was trained under Dr. Woitzel in Germany and he spends 4 hours with me on initial visits, and as much time as I need on follow up appointments. He is so warm and friendly and shows an interest in his patients. I know another lady who has a child with Lyme who has experienced some of the same kinds of things such as last minute cancellations of appointments and late appointments and she also drives to see him from out of state. I do think that if you go to see DK and travel from out of state, then it is important to know that there is a possibility that he may cancel your appointment if he gets a better gig.

He does think outside the box as a doctor and is a great educator, but he makes so much money that he seems to have no comprehension of what it is like to not have a lot of money and to be forced to fly in from out of state. He also has a whole company Biopure and he sends you home with a ton of productss from his company. I got the Biopure muscle testing kit from a practitioner friend and I now can muscle test any of his products on myself for much cheaper then I can fly in to see him. My LLMD in Alaska is really on top of all of the latest in Lyme research and often goes to the same conferences that DK goes to, so I don't really feel the need to go back to Klinghardt.

..

> >

> > Has anyone been to see Dr. Klinghardt in Washington. I am just curious as to cost of trip and visits and how much the initial visit would be. dana

> >

> > From: musiclady

> > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:05 PM

> > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > Subject: OT: PK Protocol Another link

> >

> > http://patriciakane.net/

> >

>

June 5, 2011

" Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I wish

doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had doctors do

things that I wish I had been warned too.

What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my

figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't believe in

that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it? I don't care

though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that you can sit a

bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be okay w your body but

holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that is called?

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office now,

and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I mentioned

earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was mentioned earlier in

this thread. These two people would agree with you on his eccentricity and I

think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a similar

experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't appreciate the

needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load of strange

protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting every scar you

have, etc. (this all adds up $)

The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but I

don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If you

muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if he'll

treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free you are

(ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are - then it's

(25%) 'emotional'.

June 5, 2011

Lots of people are ok with muscle testing (kinesiology) - I am not one of them. The theory is you hold a bottle or even picture of a supplement (cough, cough) and then hold out your arm to see if your arm holds strong. There are different ways of doing this: standing holding a supplement and see if you lean forward or back, some people use a pendulum thingy. No judgement here - do as you please. I don't buy it.

Besides if it worked - it would be so EASY to test and prove that it works.

" Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it? I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that is called?

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are - then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

June 5, 2011

This kind of treatment by a doctor adds insult to injury, and is abhorrent. The

fact in this case is that the lyme patient is not treated, let alone respected,

by either community...IDSA or ILADS. This kind of an appointment requires a huge

investment, financially and emotionally; thank you for letting us know he

provided such half-hearted service. This should never happen. I have thought

of flying Molly there, and this has saved me of another heart-breaking let down.

> > >

> > > Has anyone been to see Dr. Klinghardt in Washington. I am just curious as

to cost of trip and visits and how much the initial visit would be. dana

> > >

> > > From: musiclady

> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:05 PM

> > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > Subject: OT: PK Protocol Another link

> > >

> > > http://patriciakane.net/

> > >

> >

>

June 5, 2011

Hi ,

My friend who had Cancer and Lyme was very sick, yet he insisted on muscle

testing her even though she said that her polarity was reversed and didn't test

well. He got so focused on her Lyme, knowing full well that she had Cancer that

she died from lack of addressing her Cancer. He kept telling her that if she

would eliminate her parasites the Cancer would go away. She went on Biltricide

and Alinia, rifed and took antiparasitic herbs and Rhizols. I am sure with all

that she did their wasn't a parasite to be found.

She kept getting thinner and thinner and I knew that the Cancer was getting

worse. The last time she went to DK, he basically hugged her goodbye. It was

pretty sad to lose my friend. My other friend has flown back and forth to see

him several times, but she felt that he really dropped the ball on my friends

Cancer and she no longer goes to him either. I realize that Lyme is his

specialty, but we all know that Cancer is nothing to mess with and he should

have referred her to someone else IMHO.

My appointment with him consisted of muscle testing and a blood draw by the

nurse to do vitamin D levels. My MD was a NAET practitioner and muscle tests

really well, so I just have her test me on Biopure products if I feel the need.

I don't want to dissuade anyone from going to see DK, I just don't want people

to get their hopes up only to be disappointed as I was.

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone been to see Dr. Klinghardt in Washington. I am just curious

> > as to cost of trip and visits and how much the initial visit would be. dana

> > > >

> > > > From: musiclady

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:05 PM

> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > Subject: OT: PK Protocol Another link

> > > >

> > > > http://patriciakane.net/

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 5, 2011

had bioenergetic testing done with a Lyme, Bart, Bab, and he tested

positive for all three. This was done by a newly trained chiro (newly trained

in bioenergetic med). I took to have a live blood culture and she only

found Lyme.

Does anyone know how reliable these tests are or does it depend upon who is

doing the testing and their expertise?

mary

>

> >

> > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I

> > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my

> > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it?

> > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that

> > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be

> > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that

> > is called?

> >

> > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> >

> > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office

> > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I

> > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on

> > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> >

> > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a

> > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't

> > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load

> > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting

> > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> >

> > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but

> > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If

> > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if

> > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free

> > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are -

> > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> >

>

June 5, 2011

The art of muscle testing is very practitioner dependent. If the practitioner

can not remove their own intention from the experience, they can influence the

testing. I do think it works very well for many things. The problem with Lyme,

Bart or any of the coinfections is that they have active and inactive cycles.

If your Lyme is inactive, it may not show up on muscle testing. I found this

several times where I did not test for Lyme and then 6 months later would have a

flare up. At other times however, I tested very strong for Lyme. I think all

of these organisms have their dormant stages where they may not test and they

may not respond to rife during the dormant stages either.

> >

> > >

> > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I

> > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on

my

> > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it?

> > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that

> > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be

> > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what

that

> > > is called?

> > >

> > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > >

> > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > >

> > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his

office

> > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one

I

> > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you

on

> > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > >

> > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a

> > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't

> > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load

> > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting

> > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > >

> > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but

> > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms.

If

> > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if

> > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease

free

> > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are -

> > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > >

> >

>

June 5, 2011

Hi All,I spent almost a year working there and this I can say absolutely. He does care, deeply for all of his patients, for all of life, for our planet. His soul is on a mission - there is no doubht about it. He has dedicated his entire life to teaching and lecturing to other doctors and interested people. He is literally overwhelmed though and feels such an urgency to do it all. He is also a brilliant German doctor -- and all that pertains in that territory. Einstein was also very complicated and eccentric. You pretty much get what you get. I will also that the clinic is a $ making machinery. The clinic also has the most cutting-edge therapies. The urine therapy is an age-old therapy that is indeed a superior way for the immune system to be able to work for you. He himself has lyme and does not hide this fact. However, he has all the tools to manage it and function highly. I know that at one point he was taking on everyone's ills - emotionally and physically, most doctors who truly care, do, and so at some point one has to disengage emotionally more, just to stay balanced. And he has become a celebrity and pretty much knows everyone who's " up there " so to speak. He DOES NOT HAVE TO WORK. He could just lecture or write. My suggestion is pick his brain, do your homework and be focused on exactly what you want to get out of your visit. I don't want to ever get myself in trouble by recommending one or another of his assistants, but Dr. Ki____ is pretty opposite to Dr. K in her philosophy and approach. The other ND assistants have spent day in and day out just with Dr K. Look on klinghardtacademy.com's website and find other practitioners as well. As far as the ART muscle testing ... WATCH THE MOVIE ... " I AM " and you may have a different opinion about what our body says. There is an intelligence quite deep in our fields ... it is very real and has helped me tremendously. Read about ART muscle testing on his website as well for the doubters. Dr. K will always do both lab and muscle testing, and almost 100% his muscle testing is correct. You are right about " regular kinesiology " muscle testing being biased, that is why Dr. K teaches that you need to have 1 person touch the patient and use their arm for Dr. K to use. He NEVER uses his own arm, so there can never be any bias. I hope this helps. I'd say see him at least once, get your most serious questions answered and get directions and then get the products and see another good LLMD closer to home. Save the real good questions though for him. He is a true genius. Blessings.

The art of muscle testing is very practitioner dependent. If the practitioner can not remove their own intention from the experience, they can influence the testing. I do think it works very well for many things. The problem with Lyme, Bart or any of the coinfections is that they have active and inactive cycles. If your Lyme is inactive, it may not show up on muscle testing. I found this several times where I did not test for Lyme and then 6 months later would have a flare up. At other times however, I tested very strong for Lyme. I think all of these organisms have their dormant stages where they may not test and they may not respond to rife during the dormant stages either.

> >

> > >

> > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I

> > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my

> > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it?

> > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that

> > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be

> > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that

> > > is called?

> > >

> > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > >

> > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > >

> > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office

> > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I

> > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on

> > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > >

> > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a

> > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't

> > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load

> > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting

> > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > >

> > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but

> > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If

> > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if

> > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free

> > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are -

> > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > >

> >

>

--

" Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

www.abAloe.com/178

June 5, 2011

-

I have considered going out to WA to see Dr. Klinghardt, I'd be

interested in communicating with that group of patients in WA. The

two LLMDs whom have treated me are also eccentric, I think you have to

be a little cuckoo to treat this disease.

Aandraya

June 5, 2011

The other yahoo group is: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism/These are mainly mom's of sick kids and they are brilliant researchers. They do not rife/coil and they spend a lot of $$$ on supps, water machines, energy medicines, etc. Many of these folks are in WA state.

I spoke with several who've had experience with several docs in WA. I am seeing a doc who trained under K years ago, but is now on her own. Before I started seeing her, I asked several of her patients about her. They had children with Lyme and autism who were non-verbal and had such behaviors as head banging and twirling. Within two years, only the mom's could even tell there was ever a problem.

My doc is a tenth or a quarter of the $$$ of Dr. K. She focuses on your labs, balancing your immune system, and on detox. (she also muscles tests- those who will- the way Dr K does) After seeing her almost a year now, and having three sets of labs, I will say my labs are very impressive. My immune stuff that was way high has come down each lab. My immune stuff that was way low has come up with each lab. My hormones are balancing and I am off my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone creams and still having a regular cycle. My autoimmune labs (for Sjorgren's) has come down to negative. DHEA has more than doubled and adrenals greatly improved. Oh, and I'm down to just about half the sleep meds I was previously on. Yippee! It's a slow go, but it is no matter who you go with.

These are all the positives. The negatives, and I'm not sure this is so negative, is that she didn't want me coiling or doing any additional killing the first 9 months of treatment. She still doesn't want me killing much, but I am being more aggressive than she would like. (It's my body). The other negative was that when I first started, she had me stop all the supps and hormone creams I was on. I stayed on thyroid, cortisol and my sleep meds. The first 8 weeks were h***, but I stuck with it and was so glad I did. I don't know that this would be the case for everyone, especially if you aren't on everything I was on. Also, I was on Armour and started converting too much T4 to RT3, once I figured this out and went on Cytomel things really eased up.

I don't know if any of us can find one single doctor who can treat us. I still use my MD for thyroid, cortisol and sleep meds because Dr. E.S. doesn't prescribe meds. only Plant Stem Cells and other supps.

As far as eccentric, I think we've all seen them and most of them are eccentric. I think most docs go into this kind of medicine because they are sick themselves, so they have to be out-of-the-box to buck the system.

I agree that Dr. K is trying to help everyone and is very overwhelmed. The problem with that is that is really makes it a toss of the coin to go see him. For me, and I live here, I'm tired of gambling that kind of money. I'm thrilled with my doc.

June 5, 2011

Hi Janette,

I have to say that he is not 100% correct on muscle testing because he

determined that I had Bartonella and I have never had symptoms of Bart and it

has never come up on lab testing and my MD who is very good at muscle testing

does not find Bartonella through muscle testing. I ran Bartonella frequencies

on the coil machine for over 3 months with no herx also. My MD by the way is a

NAET practitioner and very good in the art of Kinesiology. She has treated Dr. K

for his allergies when she used to work in Dr 's clinic in Renton. It is

no surprise that what he found via ART testing was flawed because he had so many

distractions. I heard the 100% correct on muscle testing line from Dr. Dahlgren

when I was there and it seems to be the line that everyone has adopted in the

clinic. He certainly was off base with my friend's Cancer as she died last

summer. She was a huge DK devotee.

I know that you worked with him and I understand your defending him, but I don't

think that there is any excuse for the treatment I got from his clinic. No

rationalization will convince me otherwise. I left the clinic in tears and was

very upset. I was out several thousand dollars by the time you add up all of my

travel expenses and the $500.00 for the office visits. I was not called in

advance, I also was not offered any reimbursement, I was just out the money.

There was no excuse for him sitting and talking on the phone for 15 minutes

during my appointment which was over an hour late. I sat there while he kept

talking on the phone as if I wasn't even there and Dr. Dahlgren kept popping in

interupting my appointment to ask him questions. My time is valuable too and

whether or not he is busy is no excuse, I am very busy to. I am working full

time as a teacher treating Lyme, and getting my ND degree and I don't treat

people this way. My LLMD in Alaska does not allow anyone to interupt her when

she is with a patient. I have never seen her talk on the phone in my presence.

She always hugs me when I come and go

I can't help but feel that DK was arrogant, cared little about who I was or what

my problems were and that he was willing to shove me aside for a better offer in

this case a speaking engagement. I guess there is a lot more glory in a

speaking engagement then there is treating a Lyme patient from Alaska. At least

the clinic could have given me a courtesy call prior to my appointment so that I

could reschedule to a different date and pay the change plane fees. How much did

DK make on the one speaking engagement and all the DVDs that he sells from these

conferences? A few thousand dollars to him is probably not that big a deal but

to me it is huge.

The true heros who are in the lyme trenches are people like Stolar who day

in and day out make coil machines at no profit for himself has given up all of

his own personal time to do this without recognition or profit.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha.

> > I

> > > > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen'

> > on my

> > > > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect

> > it?

> > > > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe

> > that

> > > > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will

> > be

> > > > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know

> > what that

> > > > > is called?

> > > > >

> > > > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > > > >

> > > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > > > >

> > > > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his

> > office

> > > > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The

> > one I

> > > > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with

> > you on

> > > > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had

> > a

> > > > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she

> > didn't

> > > > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat

> > load

> > > > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine,

> > injecting

> > > > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > > > >

> > > > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is

> > personal, but

> > > > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and

> > symptoms. If

> > > > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his

> > staff if

> > > > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease

> > free

> > > > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you

> > are -

> > > > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> *

>

> " Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

>

> www.abAloe.com/178

>

> *

>

June 5, 2011

BTW. I have all of his DVDs and seminars and I do think there is good

information in them, but I have decided that it is less risky buying the DVDs

then going to see him.

>

> I agree he is eccentric, I have watched countless hours of his seminars and he

knows his stuff and eccentric behavior is common in myself and most of my family

so I understand the nature of it. It is hard to please everyone, heal everyone

and know what to do for everyone. When I see clients myself it is disheartening

sometimes because you want to see complete healing in all your pts but this does

not always happen, you want to hold their hand and help them but other life

obligations and situations get in the way and it is just impossible to take on.

I could not imagine the pts he has and the obligations along with his illness.

My goal is to get direction, I know there is no 'holy grail', but as a

naturopathic herbalist and wholistic in my practice I need a doctor who see's

both sides and in Texas I have not found one yet. My symptoms have turned

almost ALS like so urgency and experience are forefront now, if I was just

struggling with fatigue, joint pain and general cognition (not that these aren't

severe) I would be less likely to go to the extreme of expense and time to see

Dr. K., but I believe now is the time. I hear he refers people who live far

away to really good doctors, as they say he knows everyone that is a

professional in this field. It helps also that he does take BCBC in some of the

treatment/labs so that will help out. I appreciate everyones stories on Dr. K,

it has been key to helping make my decisions, even the ones that have not have

so great of an experience with him. It is almost a conscious thing, I have to

do it so in the end I can say that I left no stone unturned, and believe me we

'lymies' have to do a lot of stone turning with this disease, just trying to

stay alive and functioning. love and peace, dana

>

> Subject: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

>

> -

> I have considered going out to WA to see Dr. Klinghardt, I'd be

> interested in communicating with that group of patients in WA. The

> two LLMDs whom have treated me are also eccentric, I think you have to

> be a little cuckoo to treat this disease.

> Aandraya

>

June 5, 2011

Check out Fry's Labs in Texas (google) and call them for doctor referrals in Texas who use their labs. Dr. Fry was AWESOME at the lyme convention, and he is also an MD. Very dedicated to humanity - beautiful soul. Also check out: betterhealthguy.com -- he is a a lymie and a researcher and writer who goes to all the lyme conventions and has seen all the doctors, and praises Dr K highly, but again, sees many docs each to address different things. He is very, very connected and a big networker. Can read his daily blogs and get on his emailing list as he sends out email newsletters regularly and shares his journey with health with his specific protocals. Someone mentioned the woman doc who worked for Dr K ... she was/is my doc. Love her. She is 1/3 the cost but is not taking anybody new since her baby, but her asst doc is - she is not the same - but obviously Dr D's knowledge of training her is excellent.

,

this sounds good to, could you email me at jfeliciano@... and let me know the doctors name and her address, I would have to travel

from texas. thanks, dana

From: H

Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:03 AM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

The other yahoo group is: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism/These are mainly mom's of sick kids and they are brilliant researchers. They do not rife/coil and they spend a lot of $$$ on supps, water machines, energy medicines, etc. Many of these folks are in WA state.I spoke with several who've had experience with several docs in WA. I am seeing a doc who trained under K years ago, but is now on her own. Before I started seeing her, I asked several of her patients about her. They had children with Lyme and autism who were non-verbal and had such behaviors as head banging and twirling. Within two years, only the mom's could even tell there was ever a problem.My doc is a tenth or a quarter of the $$$ of Dr. K. She focuses on your labs, balancing your immune system, and on detox. (she also muscles tests- those who will- the way Dr K does) After seeing her almost a year now, and having three sets of labs, I will say my labs are very impressive. My immune stuff that was way high has come down each lab. My immune stuff that was way low has come up with each lab. My hormones are balancing and I am off my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone creams and still having a regular cycle. My autoimmune labs (for Sjorgren's) has come down to negative. DHEA has more than doubled and adrenals greatly improved. Oh, and I'm down to just about half the sleep meds I was previously on. Yippee! It's a slow go, but it is no matter who you go with.These are all the positives. The negatives, and I'm not sure this is so negative, is that she didn't want me coiling or doing any additional killing the first 9 months of treatment. She still doesn't want me killing much, but I am being more aggressive than she would like. (It's my body). The other negative was that when I first started, she had me stop all the supps and hormone creams I was on. I stayed on thyroid, cortisol and my sleep meds. The first 8 weeks were h***, but I stuck with it and was so glad I did. I don't know that this would be the case for everyone, especially if you aren't on everything I was on. Also, I was on Armour and started converting too much T4 to RT3, once I figured this out and went on Cytomel things really eased up.I don't know if any of us can find one single doctor who can treat us. I still use my MD for thyroid, cortisol and sleep meds because Dr. E.S. doesn't prescribe meds. only Plant Stem Cells and other supps.As far as eccentric, I think we've all seen them and most of them are eccentric. I think most docs go into this kind of medicine because they are sick themselves, so they have to be out-of-the-box to buck the system. I agree that Dr. K is trying to help everyone and is very overwhelmed. The problem with that is that is really makes it a toss of the coin to go see him. For me, and I live here, I'm tired of gambling that kind of money. I'm thrilled with my doc.

--

" Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

ALOE: www.abAloe.com/178

June 5, 2011

Hi , believe me, I empathisized when you told your story. It is very wrong and I felt somewhat vendicated when you said you asked for some of that $ back. Actually, I would not have forked it over in the first place and made a stink in the office. Totally in agreement with you -- wrong, wrong, wrong! I think you are right to just get the DVDs ... He has just gotten to be to valued in the world and really he has outgrown the one-on-one doctor ... he really is on a world stage now and so I am sure these things will keep coming up ... it is something as a clinic and for Dr K that everyone needs to squarely look at. I am sorry that you did not get your discount right then and there. Sometimes it is harder to get the $ back after the fact. I know the owners, and I know it is a $ making machine, and it is sad. Dr K gets paid much less in the states as a doctor than in Europe and since he works for owners in the clinic in WA, he gets only a portion, of which I won't say, but it is not by any stretch a lot, it is about average for a good LLMD. It is a dilemma. It is too bad. I truly am sorry for that experience that you had! If you email me off the chat list I can suggest another LLMD who is a tiger but is less costly and she is someone I'd see if I wasn't so satisfied with my Dr. who studied under Dr DK for many years. She is great but unfortuanately not taking anyone new.

Many Blessings.

Hi Janette,

I have to say that he is not 100% correct on muscle testing because he determined that I had Bartonella and I have never had symptoms of Bart and it has never come up on lab testing and my MD who is very good at muscle testing does not find Bartonella through muscle testing. I ran Bartonella frequencies on the coil machine for over 3 months with no herx also. My MD by the way is a NAET practitioner and very good in the art of Kinesiology. She has treated Dr. K for his allergies when she used to work in Dr 's clinic in Renton. It is no surprise that what he found via ART testing was flawed because he had so many distractions. I heard the 100% correct on muscle testing line from Dr. Dahlgren when I was there and it seems to be the line that everyone has adopted in the clinic. He certainly was off base with my friend's Cancer as she died last summer. She was a huge DK devotee.

I know that you worked with him and I understand your defending him, but I don't think that there is any excuse for the treatment I got from his clinic. No rationalization will convince me otherwise. I left the clinic in tears and was very upset. I was out several thousand dollars by the time you add up all of my travel expenses and the $500.00 for the office visits. I was not called in advance, I also was not offered any reimbursement, I was just out the money.

There was no excuse for him sitting and talking on the phone for 15 minutes during my appointment which was over an hour late. I sat there while he kept talking on the phone as if I wasn't even there and Dr. Dahlgren kept popping in interupting my appointment to ask him questions. My time is valuable too and whether or not he is busy is no excuse, I am very busy to. I am working full time as a teacher treating Lyme, and getting my ND degree and I don't treat people this way. My LLMD in Alaska does not allow anyone to interupt her when she is with a patient. I have never seen her talk on the phone in my presence. She always hugs me when I come and go

I can't help but feel that DK was arrogant, cared little about who I was or what my problems were and that he was willing to shove me aside for a better offer in this case a speaking engagement. I guess there is a lot more glory in a speaking engagement then there is treating a Lyme patient from Alaska. At least the clinic could have given me a courtesy call prior to my appointment so that I could reschedule to a different date and pay the change plane fees. How much did DK make on the one speaking engagement and all the DVDs that he sells from these conferences? A few thousand dollars to him is probably not that big a deal but to me it is huge.

The true heros who are in the lyme trenches are people like Stolar who day in and day out make coil machines at no profit for himself has given up all of his own personal time to do this without recognition or profit.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha.

> > I

> > > > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen'

> > on my

> > > > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect

> > it?

> > > > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe

> > that

> > > > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will

> > be

> > > > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know

> > what that

> > > > > is called?

> > > > >

> > > > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > > > >

> > > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > > > >

> > > > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his

> > office

> > > > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The

> > one I

> > > > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with

> > you on

> > > > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had

> > a

> > > > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she

> > didn't

> > > > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat

> > load

> > > > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine,

> > injecting

> > > > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > > > >

> > > > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is

> > personal, but

> > > > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and

> > symptoms. If

> > > > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his

> > staff if

> > > > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease

> > free

> > > > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you

> > are -

> > > > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> *

>

> " Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

>

> www.abAloe.com/178

>

> *

>

--

" Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

ALOE: www.abAloe.com/178

ALGAE: www.simplexityhealth.com/janettewarren

0 POINT: www.wandtheworld.com/janettewarren

" Do you have the patience to wait until the mud settles and the water is clear? Can you remain in stillness until the right action arises by itself? " Tao Te Ching 15th Century

www.iahp.com/janettewarren " if you wish to not receive emails from me simply hit reply with the word remove in the subject line. "

June 5, 2011

Amen to the statement that the true heros are the ones that are helping out of

the goodness of their hearts such as S., volunteering his time.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without

warning " ...hahaha.

> > > I

> > > > > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > > > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > > > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen'

> > > on my

> > > > > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > > > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in

effect

> > > it?

> > > > > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe

> > > that

> > > > > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it

will

> > > be

> > > > > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know

> > > what that

> > > > > > is called?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his

> > > office

> > > > > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice.

The

> > > one I

> > > > > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what

was

> > > > > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with

> > > you on

> > > > > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had

> > > a

> > > > > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she

> > > didn't

> > > > > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat

> > > load

> > > > > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine,

> > > injecting

> > > > > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is

> > > personal, but

> > > > > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and

> > > symptoms. If

> > > > > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his

> > > staff if

> > > > > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how

disease

> > > free

> > > > > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you

> > > are -

> > > > > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > *

> >

> > " Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

> >

> > www.abAloe.com/178

> >

> > *

> >

>

June 5, 2011

hi everyone.

it is interesting that this has come up as a few weeks ago in

desperation to find a dr who can help me i talked with ron at dr k's

office about getting an appt with someone there, not particularly dr

k as his waiting list is a year. it would be a huge stretch/fantasy

for me to even think about going out west, i live in vermont and a

visit to a local doctor does me in. but i've been following the

research and protocols from dr k since maybe 2002 and always hoped

someone here would be willing to look into his work.

ron's comments to me were that i was way too sick/sensitive to see dr

k, that he is german, he is a guy and too forceful! he suggested if

i wanted to see someone it would be a dr b. dont' know anything

about her.

are there any of these great dr's like susan and linda h and janette

have back east???anyone???

hope to be able to be posting a bit more now, not feeling better but

i gained all the weight i lost last year so i'm quite pleased.

many hugs to you all,

susie

June 5, 2011

Susie, or anyone else, contact me by personal email if you want names ph#s. I met quite a few docs at the lyme conference from back east. i was thrilled that they attended. i know one in land from awhile back, but i think another was from new hampshire, vt or ma, can't remember. at any rate, you can also contact dr. k's seminar manager, her email and ph # are on his website www.klinghardtacademy.com and she will let you know of some docs out there. it may take her awhile to get back to you, so email again, she will get back to you eventually, within a few weeks most. also, she should be updating her doc referral list on the website. blessings. glad you gained weight.

hi everyone.

it is interesting that this has come up as a few weeks ago in

desperation to find a dr who can help me i talked with ron at dr k's

office about getting an appt with someone there, not particularly dr

k as his waiting list is a year. it would be a huge stretch/fantasy

for me to even think about going out west, i live in vermont and a

visit to a local doctor does me in. but i've been following the

research and protocols from dr k since maybe 2002 and always hoped

someone here would be willing to look into his work.

ron's comments to me were that i was way too sick/sensitive to see dr

k, that he is german, he is a guy and too forceful! he suggested if

i wanted to see someone it would be a dr b. dont' know anything

about her.

are there any of these great dr's like susan and linda h and janette

have back east???anyone???

hope to be able to be posting a bit more now, not feeling better but

i gained all the weight i lost last year so i'm quite pleased.

many hugs to you all,

susie

--

" Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

June 6, 2011

Yes, we have an LLMD in NYC that would be closer to you than going out west. We travel from MI for my daughter to see him.

Dr. R is widely respected in the Lyme field, and is/was on the Board of ILADS.

You can contact me directly at the email below for more info on Dr. R

Charlotteiamwhimsy@...http://whimsy.t35.com

Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

hi everyone.it is interesting that this has come up as a few weeks ago in desperation to find a dr who can help me i talked with ron at dr k's office about getting an appt with someone there, not particularly dr k as his waiting list is a year. it would be a huge stretch/fantasy for me to even think about going out west, i live in vermont and a visit to a local doctor does me in. but i've been following the research and protocols from dr k since maybe 2002 and always hoped someone here would be willing to look into his work.ron's comments to me were that i was way too sick/sensitive to see dr k, that he is german, he is a guy and too forceful! he suggested if i wanted to see someone it would be a dr b. dont' know anything about her.are there any of these great dr's like susan and linda h and janette have back east???anyone???hope to be able to be posting a bit more now, not feeling better but i gained all the weight i lost last year so i'm quite pleased.many hugs to you all,susie

June 6, 2011

I would wait for Dr. ES. She will be taking new patients soon enough. I've been with her a year now and am not aware of her having an asst?She mentioned to me that she doesn't use any of K's methods any more. They've really taken two different paths as she has pursued plant stem cells.

Janette, are you doing PSC and have you found them to be as powerful as I have? Not so much for killing, but for balancing your other labs, such as; hormones, immune system, auto -immune, DHEA, adrenal, etc.

Check out Fry's Labs in Texas (google) and call them for doctor referrals in Texas who use their labs. Dr. Fry was AWESOME at the lyme convention, and he is also an MD. Very dedicated to humanity - beautiful soul. Also check out: betterhealthguy.com -- he is a a lymie and a researcher and writer who goes to all the lyme conventions and has seen all the doctors, and praises Dr K highly, but again, sees many docs each to address different things. He is very, very connected and a big networker. Can read his daily blogs and get on his emailing list as he sends out email newsletters regularly and shares his journey with health with his specific protocals. Someone mentioned the woman doc who worked for Dr K ... she was/is my doc. Love her. She is 1/3 the cost but is not taking anybody new since her baby, but her asst doc is - she is not the same - but obviously Dr D's knowledge of training her is excellent.

,

this sounds good to, could you email me at jfeliciano@... and let me know the doctors name and her address, I would have to travel

from texas. thanks, dana

From: H

Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:03 AM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

The other yahoo group is: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism/These are mainly mom's of sick kids and they are brilliant researchers. They do not rife/coil and they spend a lot of $$$ on supps, water machines, energy medicines, etc. Many of these folks are in WA state.I spoke with several who've had experience with several docs in WA. I am seeing a doc who trained under K years ago, but is now on her own. Before I started seeing her, I asked several of her patients about her. They had children with Lyme and autism who were non-verbal and had such behaviors as head banging and twirling. Within two years, only the mom's could even tell there was ever a problem.My doc is a tenth or a quarter of the $$$ of Dr. K. She focuses on your labs, balancing your immune system, and on detox. (she also muscles tests- those who will- the way Dr K does) After seeing her almost a year now, and having three sets of labs, I will say my labs are very impressive. My immune stuff that was way high has come down each lab. My immune stuff that was way low has come up with each lab. My hormones are balancing and I am off my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone creams and still having a regular cycle. My autoimmune labs (for Sjorgren's) has come down to negative. DHEA has more than doubled and adrenals greatly improved. Oh, and I'm down to just about half the sleep meds I was previously on. Yippee! It's a slow go, but it is no matter who you go with.These are all the positives. The negatives, and I'm not sure this is so negative, is that she didn't want me coiling or doing any additional killing the first 9 months of treatment. She still doesn't want me killing much, but I am being more aggressive than she would like. (It's my body). The other negative was that when I first started, she had me stop all the supps and hormone creams I was on. I stayed on thyroid, cortisol and my sleep meds. The first 8 weeks were h***, but I stuck with it and was so glad I did. I don't know that this would be the case for everyone, especially if you aren't on everything I was on. Also, I was on Armour and started converting too much T4 to RT3, once I figured this out and went on Cytomel things really eased up.I don't know if any of us can find one single doctor who can treat us. I still use my MD for thyroid, cortisol and sleep meds because Dr. E.S. doesn't prescribe meds. only Plant Stem Cells and other supps.As far as eccentric, I think we've all seen them and most of them are eccentric. I think most docs go into this kind of medicine because they are sick themselves, so they have to be out-of-the-box to buck the system. I agree that Dr. K is trying to help everyone and is very overwhelmed. The problem with that is that is really makes it a toss of the coin to go see him. For me, and I live here, I'm tired of gambling that kind of money. I'm thrilled with my doc.

--

" Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine "

ALOE: www.abAloe.com/178

June 6, 2011

I agree he is eccentric, I have watched countless hours of his seminars and he knows his stuff and eccentric behavior is common in myself and most of my family so I understand the nature of it. It is hard to please everyone, heal everyone and know what to do for everyone. When I see clients myself it is disheartening sometimes because you want to see complete healing in all your pts but this does not always happen, you want to hold their hand and help them but other life obligations and situations get in the way and it is just impossible to take on. I could not imagine the pts he has and the obligations along with his illness. My goal is to get direction, I know there is no 'holy grail', but as a naturopathic herbalist and wholistic in my practice I need a doctor who see's both sides and in Texas I have not found one yet. My symptoms have turned almost ALS like so urgency and experience are forefront now, if I was just struggling with fatigue, joint pain and general cognition (not that these aren't severe) I would be less likely to go to the extreme of expense and time to see Dr. K., but I believe now is the time. I hear he refers people who live far away to really good doctors, as they say he knows everyone that is a professional in this field. It helps also that he does take BCBC in some of the treatment/labs so that will help out. I appreciate everyones stories on Dr. K, it has been key to helping make my decisions, even the ones that have not have so great of an experience with him. It is almost a conscious thing, I have to do it so in the end I can say that I left no stone unturned, and believe me we 'lymies' have to do a lot of stone turning with this disease, just trying to stay alive and functioning. love and peace, dana

Subject: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

-I have considered going out to WA to see Dr. Klinghardt, I'd be interested in communicating with that group of patients in WA. The two LLMDs whom have treated me are also eccentric, I think you have to be a little cuckoo to treat this disease.Aandraya

June 6, 2011

Janette,

Thanks, it confirms what I really think about Dr.K, again no doctor has all the answers and I am sure he is overloaded. Did you say that the other doctors in his office follow Dr. K's teaching except for the women Dr. K? I really would like to stay with Dr. Ki's approach and if the other practitioners are on board with his philosophy then those are the ones I want to make sure I am collaborating with. Can you email me privately with which practitioner in his office would be best to see outside of Dr. Ki. jfeliciano@....... thanks again for your help with this. dana from texas.

From: Janette Warren

Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 1:05 AM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

Hi All,

I spent almost a year working there and this I can say absolutely. He does care, deeply for all of his patients, for all of life, for our planet. His soul is on a mission - there is no doubht about it. He has dedicated his entire life to teaching and lecturing to other doctors and interested people. He is literally overwhelmed though and feels such an urgency to do it all. He is also a brilliant German doctor -- and all that pertains in that territory. Einstein was also very complicated and eccentric. You pretty much get what you get. I will also that the clinic is a $ making machinery. The clinic also has the most cutting-edge therapies. The urine therapy is an age-old therapy that is indeed a superior way for the immune system to be able to work for you. He himself has lyme and does not hide this fact. However, he has all the tools to manage it and function highly. I know that at one point he was taking on everyone's ills - emotionally and physically, most doctors who truly care, do, and so at some point one has to disengage emotionally more, just to stay balanced. And he has become a celebrity and pretty much knows everyone who's "up there" so to speak. He DOES NOT HAVE TO WORK. He could just lecture or write. My suggestion is pick his brain, do your homework and be focused on exactly what you want to get out of your visit. I don't want to ever get myself in trouble by recommending one or another of his assistants, but Dr. Ki____ is pretty opposite to Dr. K in her philosophy and approach. The other ND assistants have spent day in and day out just with Dr K. Look on klinghardtacademy.com's website and find other practitioners as well. As far as the ART muscle testing ... WATCH THE MOVIE ... "I AM" and you may have a different opinion about what our body says. There is an intelligence quite deep in our fields ... it is very real and has helped me tremendously. Read about ART muscle testing on his website as well for the doubters. Dr. K will always do both lab and muscle testing, and almost 100% his muscle testing is correct. You are right about "regular kinesiology" muscle testing being biased, that is why Dr. K teaches that you need to have 1 person touch the patient and use their arm for Dr. K to use. He NEVER uses his own arm, so there can never be any bias. I hope this helps. I'd say see him at least once, get your most serious questions answered and get directions and then get the products and see another good LLMD closer to home. Save the real good questions though for him. He is a true genius. Blessings.

The art of muscle testing is very practitioner dependent. If the practitioner can not remove their own intention from the experience, they can influence the testing. I do think it works very well for many things. The problem with Lyme, Bart or any of the coinfections is that they have active and inactive cycles. If your Lyme is inactive, it may not show up on muscle testing. I found this several times where I did not test for Lyme and then 6 months later would have a flare up. At other times however, I tested very strong for Lyme. I think all of these organisms have their dormant stages where they may not test and they may not respond to rife during the dormant stages either.

> > > > >> > >> > > "Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning"...hahaha. I> > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had> > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.> > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my> > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't> > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it?> > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that> > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be> > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that> > > is called?> > >> > > From: H <40dayjourney@>> > >> > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM> > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)> > >> > >> > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office> > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I> > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was> > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on> > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.> > >> > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a> > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't> > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load> > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting> > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)> > >> > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but> > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If> > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if> > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free> > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are -> > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.> > >> > > > > >> >>

--

"Let Medicine Be Thy Food and Food Be Thy Medicine"

www.abAloe.com/178

June 6, 2011

I just wanted to add that we were also skeptical in the beginning about all this

muscle testing and didn't know how much to believe and how much not (I am

engineer and my husband programmer so imagine how much different is that from

all we have learned and believed in our lives prior to that). However we were

blown away the first time my son had the full ART testing done. We had spent

years on countless blood tests, urine tests and we had some idea what is going

on with him, although all these tests coasted us thousands of dollars, because

none of them were covered by insurance.

We didn't show the results of these tests to Dr. K's assistant, although she had

some idea what is going on with my son. For half an hour ART testing she

confirmed all tests done before - she knew about the Lyme, brain inflammation,

metals and where exactly he had them, she told us even that he has parasites,

something that the regular tests didn't show up. So actually in one moment we

had to decide - do we believe the Metametrix testing that he doesn't have

parasites or do we believe the ART testing that shows he is full of parasites.

My son had to go through very serious anti-parasitic protocol. We decided to

believe the ART testing and we were glad we did because my son had indeed

parasites coming out (sorry, sounds gross but just wanted to mention that

because was hugely important in our case).

So I guess what I wanted to say is that in some cases the muscle testing can be

more accurate and more reliable than the regular lab results. However I am sure

it very much depends on the practitioner and I would go only to highly trusted

one.

Just my opinion

Krassi

> > >

> > > >

> > > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I

> > > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on

my

> > > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect

it?

> > > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe

that

> > > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be

> > > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what

that

> > > > is called?

> > > >

> > > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > > >

> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > > >

> > > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his

office

> > > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The

one I

> > > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you

on

> > > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > > >

> > > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a

> > > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she

didn't

> > > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat

load

> > > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting

> > > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > > >

> > > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal,

but

> > > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and

symptoms. If

> > > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff

if

> > > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease

free

> > > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are

-

> > > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 6, 2011

Krassi,I just realized that many of my comments regarding labs were misleading. I apologize to the group. When I was saying that I preferred a doc to rely on labs, I was specifically addressing hormones, auto-immune, immune function, thyroid, adrenals, etc.

I did not mean labs regarding testing for pathogens. This is just so engrained in my brain that I didn't even think how I was coming across until I read your post regarding parasites and false negatives.

I will admit, though, when reading your post and your assessment of Dr. K's assistant being right on with ART I did chuckle a bit. Of course, they were right on, it's what we all have: Lyme, brain inflammation, metals, parasites, etc. One doesn't need muscle testing for these, but a good symptom check list and maybe some labs. Dr. K's office sees this every day.....they know the routine.

I think the key to labs is #1 using the right lab for the right test and #2 knowing how the test is done and how high the success rate is. In other words, most people won't rely on your run of the mill lab for Lyme, bart, barbs, etc. I was tested for babs at Quest and came back positive. That was nice because insurance paid for Quest, so I didn't have to pay for the test through Igenex. I also knew that Quest has a dilution rate of 600x (!) before they look for babs, so if I had come back negative I wouldn't have necessarily believed it.

You know, we really don't learn these lessons until we've spent a fortune on regular labs and non-insurance labs, but in retrospect I advise all those who suspect Lyme to simply test for Lyme through Igenex, save yourself a boatload of money and treat for it all.

Kill and detox, kill and detox, that's our lives ;-)PS: I don't mean to be down on Dr. K, it's just that we have all spent every cent we have to get better and we keep spending. After going through enough $$$ to put my kids through college, I don't think it has to be that way. Ask me again two years from now - I hope I am right. I am keeping it simple this year.

I just wanted to add that we were also skeptical in the beginning about all this muscle testing and didn't know how much to believe and how much not (I am engineer and my husband programmer so imagine how much different is that from all we have learned and believed in our lives prior to that). However we were blown away the first time my son had the full ART testing done. We had spent years on countless blood tests, urine tests and we had some idea what is going on with him, although all these tests coasted us thousands of dollars, because none of them were covered by insurance.

We didn't show the results of these tests to Dr. K's assistant, although she had some idea what is going on with my son. For half an hour ART testing she confirmed all tests done before - she knew about the Lyme, brain inflammation, metals and where exactly he had them, she told us even that he has parasites, something that the regular tests didn't show up. So actually in one moment we had to decide - do we believe the Metametrix testing that he doesn't have parasites or do we believe the ART testing that shows he is full of parasites. My son had to go through very serious anti-parasitic protocol. We decided to believe the ART testing and we were glad we did because my son had indeed parasites coming out (sorry, sounds gross but just wanted to mention that because was hugely important in our case).

So I guess what I wanted to say is that in some cases the muscle testing can be more accurate and more reliable than the regular lab results. However I am sure it very much depends on the practitioner and I would go only to highly trusted one.

Just my opinion

Krassi

> > >

> > > >

> > > > " Didn't appreciate the needle in the brain without warning " ...hahaha. I

> > > > wish doctors would tell me ahead what they are going to do. I've had

> > > > doctors do things that I wish I had been warned too.

> > > > What is muscle testing? I had a doctor who put this metal like 'pen' on my

> > > > figers or toes and would decide which supplement to give me. I don't

> > > > believe in that at all!!! Wouldn't the plastic bottle it is in effect it?

> > > > I don't care though what the answer to that is, I just don't believe that

> > > > you can sit a bottle of something on a stand and tell whether it will be

> > > > okay w your body but holding a metal pen to your toe. Anyone know what that

> > > > is called?

> > > >

> > > > From: H <40dayjourney@>

> > > >

> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife

> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 1:32 PM

> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

> > > >

> > > > That is interesting . I know of two people who are going to his office

> > > > now, and I believe they both see several doctors in his practice. The one I

> > > > mentioned earlier spends double or triple at his office than what was

> > > > mentioned earlier in this thread. These two people would agree with you on

> > > > his eccentricity and I think the eccentricity of his entire staff.

> > > >

> > > > I had forgot to mention another friend of mine who saw him - she had a

> > > > similar experience to you, in that she felt rushed. But mostly she didn't

> > > > appreciate the needle into her brain w/o warning. He also has a boat load

> > > > of strange protocols; injecting yourself with your own urine, injecting

> > > > every scar you have, etc. (this all adds up $)

> > > >

> > > > The other thing I would check is the muscle testing. This is personal, but

> > > > I don't muscle test. I want my docs relying heavily on labs and symptoms. If

> > > > you muscle test - fine, but if you don't you may want to ask his staff if

> > > > he'll treat you. He will even use muscle testing to state how disease free

> > > > you are (ie., 75%) and if you aren't feeling as well as he says you are -

> > > > then it's (25%) 'emotional'.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 6, 2011

,

this sounds good to, could you email me at jfeliciano@... and let me know the doctors name and her address, I would have to travel

from texas. thanks, dana

From: H

Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:03 AM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: Dr. Klinghardt (my experience)

The other yahoo group is: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism/These are mainly mom's of sick kids and they are brilliant researchers. They do not rife/coil and they spend a lot of $$$ on supps, water machines, energy medicines, etc. Many of these folks are in WA state.I spoke with several who've had experience with several docs in WA. I am seeing a doc who trained under K years ago, but is now on her own. Before I started seeing her, I asked several of her patients about her. They had children with Lyme and autism who were non-verbal and had such behaviors as head banging and twirling. Within two years, only the mom's could even tell there was ever a problem.My doc is a tenth or a quarter of the $$$ of Dr. K. She focuses on your labs, balancing your immune system, and on detox. (she also muscles tests- those who will- the way Dr K does) After seeing her almost a year now, and having three sets of labs, I will say my labs are very impressive. My immune stuff that was way high has come down each lab. My immune stuff that was way low has come up with each lab. My hormones are balancing and I am off my estrogen, progesterone, testosterone creams and still having a regular cycle. My autoimmune labs (for Sjorgren's) has come down to negative. DHEA has more than doubled and adrenals greatly improved. Oh, and I'm down to just about half the sleep meds I was previously on. Yippee! It's a slow go, but it is no matter who you go with.These are all the positives. The negatives, and I'm not sure this is so negative, is that she didn't want me coiling or doing any additional killing the first 9 months of treatment. She still doesn't want me killing much, but I am being more aggressive than she would like. (It's my body). The other negative was that when I first started, she had me stop all the supps and hormone creams I was on. I stayed on thyroid, cortisol and my sleep meds. The first 8 weeks were h***, but I stuck with it and was so glad I did. I don't know that this would be the case for everyone, especially if you aren't on everything I was on. Also, I was on Armour and started converting too much T4 to RT3, once I figured this out and went on Cytomel things really eased up.I don't know if any of us can find one single doctor who can treat us. I still use my MD for thyroid, cortisol and sleep meds because Dr. E.S. doesn't prescribe meds. only Plant Stem Cells and other supps.As far as eccentric, I think we've all seen them and most of them are eccentric. I think most docs go into this kind of medicine because they are sick themselves, so they have to be out-of-the-box to buck the system. I agree that Dr. K is trying to help everyone and is very overwhelmed. The problem with that is that is really makes it a toss of the coin to go see him. For me, and I live here, I'm tired of gambling that kind of money. I'm thrilled with my doc.

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