Re: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?

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From: greekteach@...To: miralax Subject: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:54:47 -0400

I am forward this thread we were having on the low oxalate group (i got confused and thought it was on the miralax group). I hope the information on here can help someone in our group.I hope you don't mind. A few things I wanted to mention: Cinnamon is high in oxalates! So that could be why his tics came out with that bread. I believe rice flour is high as well?? I don't have my new bible (LOL) with me at the moment. I too am cooking everything from scratch and everything organic at this point. Or until we can't afford it anymore! Your son sounds like me oldest son. He has a lot of reactions to foods as well. But his reactions effect his ADHD and behaviors. What I have been reading and learning on the LOD is that a lot of these kids have the same reactions and intolerances to these different foods. Interesting!

To: Trying_Low_Oxalates From: pellomelissa@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:09:19 +0000Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?

Thanks for replying. From what you said it seems that my son could have this issue on and off again. Or like phenols and salicylates he can only tolerate small amounts. Since he was younger there have been quite a few visits to the Pediatrician due to pain when urinating. With no UTI and all they ever said was it was probably just irritation on the outside. I mean there were times it hurt so much he would almost cry. Although he hardly has this anymore since starting the limited diet for leaky gut and food intolerances. He also got it more recently a couple times but I couldn't pinpoint any one trigger. Once was a day after taking his allergy medication which contains PEG. The other time I thought maybe gluten had caused it. Then the tics. That one is hard to pinpoint too since he has so many seemingly different triggers for it. Plus as I said he is really allergic to pollens so everything gets worse when it is pollen season which is most of the time. LOL I am hoping the next few months won't be as bad since finding all these allergies and food intolerances out was after last fall. With my son alot of things seem to be a matter of accumulation. Since starting this limited diet I had to cook alot from scratch and was using rice flour and cane sugar to do that. Then when I made this cinnamon bread we have made many times before with these ingredients all of a sudden the tics came back. I have also found that when something starts bothering my son even though he does not tell me he just does not want it anymore. So I go by this and it works so much better. Instead of trying to force him to eat something like his vegies I just try a new vegie. Because it usually means he cannot tolerate it at the moment. As for bed wetting my son doesn't really have an issue with that but there have been times he got up and changed his pants due to he either thought they were wet or they were just a little wet. I thought it was due to food intolerances but it could possibly be oxalates. I will have to add this into our food/supplement/everything(LOL) symptom and behavior diary. You are like me I spend alot of time researching these things and now oxalates is something I need to research more. Also wanted to add that my 15 yr od dog has an oxalate issue. She also has periods when she cannot control her bladder. From joining this group I now realize that these periods which usually last for days is probably dumping. She also licks when this happens which may be due to irritation from the oxalates. Thanks again for suggesting this group.>> > Ok, where to begin???> First my middle son, 6 yrs old, as soon as I stopped (cold turkey) the miralax, he started having cloudy urine, pee that was hurting, and he was having white crusty stuff on his underwear. I knew this was weird and probably from the miralax somehow. And my older son, 8 yrs. old, was complaining of pee hurting all last fall and winter. I did not know it was an oxalate problem at the time. Since then we have gone GFCF and now corn, egg, potato, and nuts free. And in the meantime I had gotten testing done through our homeopath for everything (yeast, parasites, etc.) And in June Owens (list owner of LOD) sent an email to our miralax group if anyone had the Great Plains Laboratory done she would go over it and tell us the results. She has figured out a way from the results to tell if you have an oxalate problem. She will do this for free and skype with you to tell you the results. So I did that and she confirmed what I was suspecting through all my research ..oxalate problem. Even our homeopath does not know much about oxalates. We are doing this through the LOD group and and I tell my homeopath what I learn and she is helping us and watching and testing my children.> > Now something interesting I figured out over the past couple of days which might help some of you, my middle son has tics very bad and magnesium is not helping as we thought it would. And the supplements our doctor has put him on are not helping much either. I asked abt it. She said maybe the oxalates have attached to somewhere in the brain that controls tics. So since going on the LOD, his tics have calmed down lately. HOWEVER, yesterday I made these pancakes and I was not sure if high, medium, or low. Well my son's tics where soooo bad yesterday, my other son, daughter, and I were having frequent urinating. And last night my middle son wet his bed. Today he has eaten low oxalate foods and his tics have calmed down again. INTERESTING! So my middle son has tics from the oxalates. It depends on the amount of oxalates how his tics will be. He does not have anything else but leaky gut and dairy and gluten intolerances and vitamin deficiencies. My other children have all that and candida and my daughter has h pylori as well.> > Our symptoms are: bed wetting ( good thing because the oxalates are coming out), frequent urine, urgent BM's with moth ball foul smell (oxalates) and black specks, tics get worst, behaviors get worst during dumping for my older son who is ADHD (he becomes wild, crazy, irritable, aggressive), cloudy milky urine, and white crusty stuff on underwear (oxalates). Unfortunately it good to have these behaviors, he is getting the oxalates out. So for us if I stay at low and medium oxalates I will see less of these symptoms happening.> OH~ everyone is having BM's daily due to the low oxalate diet!!! And my oldest that was losing weight, has gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks of starting the LOD. All my kids are going through a growth spurt!!!! Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!> > I spend all my nights when my kids go to bed researching and researching to find answers to what I was seeing. And I can finally say I think I have found the root of what is happening to my boys and finally on the road to recovery. I use to worry and cry (everyday) that my boys were going to die because of the miralax! NO joke. But now I feel that we are finally taking care of the problems. And it will take years to get 100% better!> > One thing I keep reading abt through the LOD group once you go on the diet, people are able to add foods back in that once was not tolerated. I hope this information can help you!> > Did you see the email I posted from Owens, explaining to me what happens due to miralax? She told me to share it with the group. It explains a lot!> I will put it here for you in case you did not:> > > Hi everyone,> > I am a member of the low oxalate diet group as well. The listowner wrote this letter to me as a response to a question I had about oxalates and miralax. I think you might find this information helpful so I wanted to share it with everyone. This helped me to understand what might be happening because of the miralax. This is why we are in the process of starting the low oxalate diet. I highly recommend joining this group as well as it may help our children to get better! is a very smart person and has done a ton of research on oxalates!> I hope this helps you all:)!> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ Here is the link if you are interested.> > > ,> > Oxalate itself CREATES oxidative stress, so once some of the miralax has converted to oxalate, wherever it is, it is creating oxidative stress....causing lipid peroxidation and mitochondrial dysfunction, etc.> > So, the problem is that once you run out of glutathione (and oxalate competes with glutathione for access to the mitochondrion), then cells start trying to replace the missing glutathione, and that is what makes them B6 deficient, it looks like. So, once they get B6 deficient, then that shuts down the function of the B6-dependent enzyme AGT, and that means a big amount of glyoxylate will travel to the cytosol in the middle of the cell and will be converted by lactate dehydrogenase into oxalate. Then THAT oxalate will cause more oxidative stress, and around and around we go!> > Here is a diagram of that cycle: http://lowoxalate.info/oxalateandoxidativestresschart.tif> > So the issue is the miralax may put you on that cycle in the first place, and to get off, you have to stop the body making new oxalate and you have to get the B6 chemistry adequate to be able to keep making glutathione and do its other jobs.> > Does that make sense? You can copy this to Miralax if you'd like.> > You are definitely having a dump with all the right signs! I'm glad Karla is helping you. She is amazing...a one woman tornado in getting things done with great heart and creativity to boot!> > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:54 +0000> Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Symptoms?> > > > > > > How did you know that oxalates was the problem? I am wondering if this diet would help my son but due to his food intolerances and therefore limited diet anyways I am reluctant to try another diet. So can anyone tell me what signs and symptoms there would be if there is an oxalate issue? Thanks> > > > > > > >

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Yes, I know I have tried numerous times but it seems everytime I unsubscribe I get 10X as many as before.

From: greekteach@...To: miralax Subject: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:54:47 -0400

I am forward this thread we were having on the low oxalate group (i got confused and thought it was on the miralax group). I hope the information on here can help someone in our group.I hope you don't mind. A few things I wanted to mention: Cinnamon is high in oxalates! So that could be why his tics came out with that bread. I believe rice flour is high as well?? I don't have my new bible (LOL) with me at the moment. I too am cooking everything from scratch and everything organic at this point. Or until we can't afford it anymore! Your son sounds like me oldest son. He has a lot of reactions to foods as well. But his reactions effect his ADHD and behaviors. What I have been reading and learning on the LOD is that a lot of these kids have the same reactions and intolerances to these different

foods. Interesting!

To: Trying_Low_Oxalates From: pellomelissa@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:09:19 +0000Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?

Thanks for replying. From what you said it seems that my son could have this issue on and off again. Or like phenols and salicylates he can only tolerate small amounts. Since he was younger there have been quite a few visits to the Pediatrician due to pain when urinating. With no UTI and all they ever said was it was probably just irritation on the outside. I mean there were times it hurt so much he would almost cry. Although he hardly has this anymore since starting the limited diet for leaky gut and food intolerances. He also got it more recently a couple times but I couldn't pinpoint any one trigger. Once was a day after taking his allergy medication which contains PEG. The other time I thought maybe gluten had caused it. Then the tics. That one is hard to pinpoint too since he has so many seemingly different triggers for it. Plus as I said he is really allergic to pollens so everything gets worse when

it is pollen season which is most of the time. LOL I am hoping the next few months won't be as bad since finding all these allergies and food intolerances out was after last fall. With my son alot of things seem to be a matter of accumulation. Since starting this limited diet I had to cook alot from scratch and was using rice flour and cane sugar to do that. Then when I made this cinnamon bread we have made many times before with these ingredients all of a sudden the tics came back. I have also found that when something starts bothering my son even though he does not tell me he just does not want it anymore. So I go by this and it works so much better. Instead of trying to force him to eat something like his vegies I just try a new vegie. Because it usually means he cannot tolerate it at the moment. As for bed wetting my son doesn't really have an issue with that but there have been times he got up and changed his pants due to he either thought

they were wet or they were just a little wet. I thought it was due to food intolerances but it could possibly be oxalates. I will have to add this into our food/supplement/everything(LOL) symptom and behavior diary. You are like me I spend alot of time researching these things and now oxalates is something I need to research more. Also wanted to add that my 15 yr od dog has an oxalate issue. She also has periods when she cannot control her bladder. From joining this group I now realize that these periods which usually last for days is probably dumping. She also licks when this happens which may be due to irritation from the oxalates. Thanks again for suggesting this group.>> > Ok, where to begin???> First my middle son, 6 yrs old, as soon as I stopped (cold turkey) the miralax, he started having cloudy urine, pee that was hurting, and he was having white crusty stuff on his underwear. I knew this was weird and probably from the miralax somehow. And my older son, 8 yrs. old, was complaining of pee hurting all last fall and winter. I did not know it was an oxalate problem at the time. Since then we have gone GFCF and now corn, egg, potato, and nuts free. And in the meantime I had gotten testing done through our homeopath for everything (yeast, parasites, etc.) And in June Owens (list owner of LOD) sent an email to our miralax group if anyone

had the Great Plains Laboratory done she would go over it and tell us the results. She has figured out a way from the results to tell if you have an oxalate problem. She will do this for free and skype with you to tell you the results. So I did that and she confirmed what I was suspecting through all my research ..oxalate problem. Even our homeopath does not know much about oxalates. We are doing this through the LOD group and and I tell my homeopath what I learn and she is helping us and watching and testing my children.> > Now something interesting I figured out over the past couple of days which might help some of you, my middle son has tics very bad and magnesium is not helping as we thought it would. And the supplements our doctor has put him on are not helping much either. I asked abt it. She said maybe the oxalates have attached to somewhere in the brain that controls tics. So since going on the LOD, his tics have calmed

down lately. HOWEVER, yesterday I made these pancakes and I was not sure if high, medium, or low. Well my son's tics where soooo bad yesterday, my other son, daughter, and I were having frequent urinating. And last night my middle son wet his bed. Today he has eaten low oxalate foods and his tics have calmed down again. INTERESTING! So my middle son has tics from the oxalates. It depends on the amount of oxalates how his tics will be. He does not have anything else but leaky gut and dairy and gluten intolerances and vitamin deficiencies. My other children have all that and candida and my daughter has h pylori as well.> > Our symptoms are: bed wetting ( good thing because the oxalates are coming out), frequent urine, urgent BM's with moth ball foul smell (oxalates) and black specks, tics get worst, behaviors get worst during dumping for my older son who is ADHD (he becomes wild, crazy, irritable, aggressive), cloudy milky urine, and white

crusty stuff on underwear (oxalates). Unfortunately it good to have these behaviors, he is getting the oxalates out. So for us if I stay at low and medium oxalates I will see less of these symptoms happening.> OH~ everyone is having BM's daily due to the low oxalate diet!!! And my oldest that was losing weight, has gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks of starting the LOD. All my kids are going through a growth spurt!!!! Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!> > I spend all my nights when my kids go to bed researching and researching to find answers to what I was seeing. And I can finally say I think I have found the root of what is happening to my boys and finally on the road to recovery. I use to worry and cry (everyday) that my boys were going to die because of the miralax! NO joke. But now I feel that we are finally taking care of the problems. And it will take years to get 100% better!> > One thing I keep reading abt through the LOD group once

you go on the diet, people are able to add foods back in that once was not tolerated. I hope this information can help you!> > Did you see the email I posted from Owens, explaining to me what happens due to miralax? She told me to share it with the group. It explains a lot!> I will put it here for you in case you did not:> > > Hi everyone,> > I am a member of the low oxalate diet group as well. The listowner wrote this letter to me as a response to a question I had about oxalates and miralax. I think you might find this information helpful so I wanted to share it with everyone. This helped me to understand what might be happening because of the miralax. This is why we are in the process of starting the low oxalate diet. I highly recommend joining this group as well as it may help our children to get better! is a very smart person and has done a ton of research on oxalates!>

I hope this helps you all:)!> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ Here is the link if you are interested.> > > ,> > Oxalate itself CREATES oxidative stress, so once some of the miralax has converted to oxalate, wherever it is, it is creating oxidative stress....causing lipid peroxidation and mitochondrial dysfunction, etc.> > So, the problem is that once you run out of glutathione (and oxalate competes with glutathione for access to the mitochondrion), then cells start trying to replace the missing glutathione, and that is what makes them B6 deficient, it looks like. So, once they get B6 deficient, then that shuts down the function of the B6-dependent enzyme AGT, and that means a big

amount of glyoxylate will travel to the cytosol in the middle of the cell and will be converted by lactate dehydrogenase into oxalate. Then THAT oxalate will cause more oxidative stress, and around and around we go!> > Here is a diagram of that cycle: http://lowoxalate.info/oxalateandoxidativestresschart.tif> > So the issue is the miralax may put you on that cycle in the first place, and to get off, you have to stop the body making new oxalate and you have to get the B6 chemistry adequate to be able to keep making glutathione and do its other jobs.> > Does that make sense? You can copy this to Miralax if you'd like.> > You are definitely having a dump with all the right signs! I'm glad Karla is helping

you. She is amazing...a one woman tornado in getting things done with great heart and creativity to boot!> > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:54 +0000> Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Symptoms?> > > > > > > How did you know that oxalates was the problem? I am wondering if this diet would help my son but due to his food intolerances and therefore limited diet anyways I am reluctant to try another diet. So can anyone tell me what signs and symptoms there would be if there is an oxalate issue? Thanks> > > > > > > >

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All you need to do is click on unsubscribe at the bottom and you can do it yourselfT Will someone PLEASE take me OFF this list?Sent from my iPhone From: greekteach@...To: miralax Subject: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:54:47 -0400 I am forward this thread we were having on the low oxalate group (i got confused and thought it was on the miralax group). I hope the information on here can help someone in our group.I hope you don't mind. A few things I wanted to mention: Cinnamon is high in oxalates! So that could be why his tics came out with that bread. I believe rice flour is high as well?? I don't have my new bible (LOL) with me at the moment. I too am cooking everything from scratch and everything organic at this point. Or until we can't afford it anymore! Your son sounds like me oldest son. He has a lot of reactions to foods as well. But his reactions effect his ADHD and behaviors. What I have been reading and learning on the LOD is that a lot of these kids have the same reactions and intolerances to these different foods. Interesting! To: Trying_Low_Oxalates From: pellomelissa@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:09:19 +0000Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms? Thanks for replying. From what you said it seems that my son could have this issue on and off again. Or like phenols and salicylates he can only tolerate small amounts. Since he was younger there have been quite a few visits to the Pediatrician due to pain when urinating. With no UTI and all they ever said was it was probably just irritation on the outside. I mean there were times it hurt so much he would almost cry. Although he hardly has this anymore since starting the limited diet for leaky gut and food intolerances. He also got it more recently a couple times but I couldn't pinpoint any one trigger. Once was a day after taking his allergy medication which contains PEG. The other time I thought maybe gluten had caused it. Then the tics. That one is hard to pinpoint too since he has so many seemingly different triggers for it. Plus as I said he is really allergic to pollens so everything gets worse when it is pollen season which is most of the time. LOL I am hoping the next few months won't be as bad since finding all these allergies and food intolerances out was after last fall. With my son alot of things seem to be a matter of accumulation. Since starting this limited diet I had to cook alot from scratch and was using rice flour and cane sugar to do that. Then when I made this cinnamon bread we have made many times before with these ingredients all of a sudden the tics came back. I have also found that when something starts bothering my son even though he does not tell me he just does not want it anymore. So I go by this and it works so much better. Instead of trying to force him to eat something like his vegies I just try a new vegie. Because it usually means he cannot tolerate it at the moment. As for bed wetting my son doesn't really have an issue with that but there have been times he got up and changed his pants due to he either thought they were wet or they were just a little wet. I thought it was due to food intolerances but it could possibly be oxalates. I will have to add this into our food/supplement/everything(LOL) symptom and behavior diary. You are like me I spend alot of time researching these things and now oxalates is something I need to research more. Also wanted to add that my 15 yr od dog has an oxalate issue. She also has periods when she cannot control her bladder. From joining this group I now realize that these periods which usually last for days is probably dumping. She also licks when this happens which may be due to irritation from the oxalates. Thanks again for suggesting this group.>> > Ok, where to begin???> First my middle son, 6 yrs old, as soon as I stopped (cold turkey) the miralax, he started having cloudy urine, pee that was hurting, and he was having white crusty stuff on his underwear. I knew this was weird and probably from the miralax somehow. And my older son, 8 yrs. old, was complaining of pee hurting all last fall and winter. I did not know it was an oxalate problem at the time. Since then we have gone GFCF and now corn, egg, potato, and nuts free. And in the meantime I had gotten testing done through our homeopath for everything (yeast, parasites, etc.) And in June Owens (list owner of LOD) sent an email to our miralax group if anyone had the Great Plains Laboratory done she would go over it and tell us the results. She has figured out a way from the results to tell if you have an oxalate problem. She will do this for free and skype with you to tell you the results. So I did that and she confirmed what I was suspecting through all my research ..oxalate problem. Even our homeopath does not know much about oxalates. We are doing this through the LOD group and and I tell my homeopath what I learn and she is helping us and watching and testing my children.> > Now something interesting I figured out over the past couple of days which might help some of you, my middle son has tics very bad and magnesium is not helping as we thought it would. And the supplements our doctor has put him on are not helping much either. I asked abt it. She said maybe the oxalates have attached to somewhere in the brain that controls tics. So since going on the LOD, his tics have calmed down lately. HOWEVER, yesterday I made these pancakes and I was not sure if high, medium, or low. Well my son's tics where soooo bad yesterday, my other son, daughter, and I were having frequent urinating. And last night my middle son wet his bed. Today he has eaten low oxalate foods and his tics have calmed down again. INTERESTING! So my middle son has tics from the oxalates. It depends on the amount of oxalates how his tics will be. He does not have anything else but leaky gut and dairy and gluten intolerances and vitamin deficiencies. My other children have all that and candida and my daughter has h pylori as well.> > Our symptoms are: bed wetting ( good thing because the oxalates are coming out), frequent urine, urgent BM's with moth ball foul smell (oxalates) and black specks, tics get worst, behaviors get worst during dumping for my older son who is ADHD (he becomes wild, crazy, irritable, aggressive), cloudy milky urine, and white crusty stuff on underwear (oxalates). Unfortunately it good to have these behaviors, he is getting the oxalates out. So for us if I stay at low and medium oxalates I will see less of these symptoms happening.> OH~ everyone is having BM's daily due to the low oxalate diet!!! And my oldest that was losing weight, has gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks of starting the LOD. All my kids are going through a growth spurt!!!! Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!> > I spend all my nights when my kids go to bed researching and researching to find answers to what I was seeing. And I can finally say I think I have found the root of what is happening to my boys and finally on the road to recovery. I use to worry and cry (everyday) that my boys were going to die because of the miralax! NO joke. But now I feel that we are finally taking care of the problems. And it will take years to get 100% better!> > One thing I keep reading abt through the LOD group once you go on the diet, people are able to add foods back in that once was not tolerated. I hope this information can help you!> > Did you see the email I posted from Owens, explaining to me what happens due to miralax? She told me to share it with the group. It explains a lot!> I will put it here for you in case you did not:> > > Hi everyone,> > I am a member of the low oxalate diet group as well. The listowner wrote this letter to me as a response to a question I had about oxalates and miralax. I think you might find this information helpful so I wanted to share it with everyone. This helped me to understand what might be happening because of the miralax. This is why we are in the process of starting the low oxalate diet. I highly recommend joining this group as well as it may help our children to get better! is a very smart person and has done a ton of research on oxalates!> I hope this helps you all:)!> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ Here is the link if you are interested.> > > ,> > Oxalate itself CREATES oxidative stress, so once some of the miralax has converted to oxalate, wherever it is, it is creating oxidative stress....causing lipid peroxidation and mitochondrial dysfunction, etc.> > So, the problem is that once you run out of glutathione (and oxalate competes with glutathione for access to the mitochondrion), then cells start trying to replace the missing glutathione, and that is what makes them B6 deficient, it looks like. So, once they get B6 deficient, then that shuts down the function of the B6-dependent enzyme AGT, and that means a big amount of glyoxylate will travel to the cytosol in the middle of the cell and will be converted by lactate dehydrogenase into oxalate. Then THAT oxalate will cause more oxidative stress, and around and around we go!> > Here is a diagram of that cycle: http://lowoxalate.info/oxalateandoxidativestresschart.tif> > So the issue is the miralax may put you on that cycle in the first place, and to get off, you have to stop the body making new oxalate and you have to get the B6 chemistry adequate to be able to keep making glutathione and do its other jobs.> > Does that make sense? You can copy this to Miralax if you'd like.> > You are definitely having a dump with all the right signs! I'm glad Karla is helping you. She is amazing...a one woman tornado in getting things done with great heart and creativity to boot!> > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:54 +0000> Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Symptoms?> > > > > > > How did you know that oxalates was the problem? I am wondering if this diet would help my son but due to his food intolerances and therefore limited diet anyways I am reluctant to try another diet. So can anyone tell me what signs and symptoms there would be if there is an oxalate issue? Thanks> > > > > > > >

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, are you still getting mail?

To: miralax Sent: Mon, August 29, 2011 12:54:04 AMSubject: Re: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?

Yes, I know I have tried numerous times but it seems everytime I unsubscribe I get 10X as many as before.

From: greekteach@...To: miralax Subject: FW: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:54:47 -0400

I am forward this thread we were having on the low oxalate group (i got confused and thought it was on the miralax group). I hope the information on here can help someone in our group.I hope you don't mind. A few things I wanted to mention: Cinnamon is high in oxalates! So that could be why his tics came out with that bread. I believe rice flour is high as well?? I don't have my new bible (LOL) with me at the moment. I too am cooking everything from scratch and everything organic at this point. Or until we can't afford it anymore! Your son sounds like me oldest son. He has a lot of reactions to foods as well. But his reactions effect his ADHD and behaviors. What I have been reading and learning on the LOD is that a lot of these kids have the same reactions and intolerances to these different

foods. Interesting!

To: Trying_Low_Oxalates From: pellomelissa@...Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:09:19 +0000Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: Symptoms?

Thanks for replying. From what you said it seems that my son could have this issue on and off again. Or like phenols and salicylates he can only tolerate small amounts. Since he was younger there have been quite a few visits to the Pediatrician due to pain when urinating. With no UTI and all they ever said was it was probably just irritation on the outside. I mean there were times it hurt so much he would almost cry. Although he hardly has this anymore since starting the limited diet for leaky gut and food intolerances. He also got it more recently a couple times but I couldn't pinpoint any one trigger. Once was a day after taking his allergy medication which contains PEG. The other time I thought maybe gluten had caused it. Then the tics. That one is hard to pinpoint too since he has so many seemingly different triggers for it. Plus as I said he is really allergic to pollens so everything gets worse when

it is pollen season which is most of the time. LOL I am hoping the next few months won't be as bad since finding all these allergies and food intolerances out was after last fall. With my son alot of things seem to be a matter of accumulation. Since starting this limited diet I had to cook alot from scratch and was using rice flour and cane sugar to do that. Then when I made this cinnamon bread we have made many times before with these ingredients all of a sudden the tics came back. I have also found that when something starts bothering my son even though he does not tell me he just does not want it anymore. So I go by this and it works so much better. Instead of trying to force him to eat something like his vegies I just try a new vegie. Because it usually means he cannot tolerate it at the moment. As for bed wetting my son doesn't really have an issue with that but there have been times he got up and changed his pants due to he either thought

they were wet or they were just a little wet. I thought it was due to food intolerances but it could possibly be oxalates. I will have to add this into our food/supplement/everything(LOL) symptom and behavior diary. You are like me I spend alot of time researching these things and now oxalates is something I need to research more. Also wanted to add that my 15 yr od dog has an oxalate issue. She also has periods when she cannot control her bladder. From joining this group I now realize that these periods which usually last for days is probably dumping. She also licks when this happens which may be due to irritation from the oxalates. Thanks again for suggesting this group.>> > Ok, where to begin???> First my middle son, 6 yrs old, as soon as I stopped (cold turkey) the miralax, he started having cloudy urine, pee that was hurting, and he was having white crusty stuff on his underwear. I knew this was weird and probably from the miralax somehow. And my older son, 8 yrs. old, was complaining of pee hurting all last fall and winter. I did not know it was an oxalate problem at the time. Since then we have gone GFCF and now corn, egg, potato, and nuts free. And in the meantime I had gotten testing done through our homeopath for everything (yeast, parasites, etc.) And in June Owens (list owner of LOD) sent an email to our miralax group if anyone had the Great Plains Laboratory done she would go over it and tell us the results. She has figured out a way from the results to tell if you have an oxalate

problem. She will do this for free and skype with you to tell you the results. So I did that and she confirmed what I was suspecting through all my research ..oxalate problem. Even our homeopath does not know much about oxalates. We are doing this through the LOD group and and I tell my homeopath what I learn and she is helping us and watching and testing my children.> > Now something interesting I figured out over the past couple of days which might help some of you, my middle son has tics very bad and magnesium is not helping as we thought it would. And the supplements our doctor has put him on are not helping much either. I asked abt it. She said maybe the oxalates have attached to somewhere in the brain that controls tics. So since going on the LOD, his tics have calmed down lately. HOWEVER, yesterday I made these pancakes and I was not sure if high, medium, or low. Well my son's tics where soooo bad yesterday, my other

son, daughter, and I were having frequent urinating. And last night my middle son wet his bed. Today he has eaten low oxalate foods and his tics have calmed down again. INTERESTING! So my middle son has tics from the oxalates. It depends on the amount of oxalates how his tics will be. He does not have anything else but leaky gut and dairy and gluten intolerances and vitamin deficiencies. My other children have all that and candida and my daughter has h pylori as well.> > Our symptoms are: bed wetting ( good thing because the oxalates are coming out), frequent urine, urgent BM's with moth ball foul smell (oxalates) and black specks, tics get worst, behaviors get worst during dumping for my older son who is ADHD (he becomes wild, crazy, irritable, aggressive), cloudy milky urine, and white crusty stuff on underwear (oxalates). Unfortunately it good to have these behaviors, he is getting the oxalates out. So for us if I stay at low and medium

oxalates I will see less of these symptoms happening.> OH~ everyone is having BM's daily due to the low oxalate diet!!! And my oldest that was losing weight, has gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks of starting the LOD. All my kids are going through a growth spurt!!!! Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!> > I spend all my nights when my kids go to bed researching and researching to find answers to what I was seeing. And I can finally say I think I have found the root of what is happening to my boys and finally on the road to recovery. I use to worry and cry (everyday) that my boys were going to die because of the miralax! NO joke. But now I feel that we are finally taking care of the problems. And it will take years to get 100% better!> > One thing I keep reading abt through the LOD group once you go on the diet, people are able to add foods back in that once was not tolerated. I hope this information can help you!> > Did you see the

email I posted from Owens, explaining to me what happens due to miralax? She told me to share it with the group. It explains a lot!> I will put it here for you in case you did not:> > > Hi everyone,> > I am a member of the low oxalate diet group as well. The listowner wrote this letter to me as a response to a question I had about oxalates and miralax. I think you might find this information helpful so I wanted to share it with everyone. This helped me to understand what might be happening because of the miralax. This is why we are in the process of starting the low oxalate diet. I highly recommend joining this group as well as it may help our children to get better! is a very smart person and has done a ton of research on oxalates!> I hope this helps you all:)!> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ Here is the link if you are interested.> > > ,> > Oxalate itself CREATES oxidative stress, so once some of the miralax has converted to oxalate, wherever it is, it is creating oxidative stress....causing lipid peroxidation and mitochondrial dysfunction, etc.> > So, the problem is that once you run out of glutathione (and oxalate competes with glutathione for access to the mitochondrion), then cells start trying to replace the missing glutathione, and that is what makes them B6 deficient, it looks like. So, once they get B6 deficient, then that shuts down the function of the B6-dependent enzyme AGT, and that means a big amount of glyoxylate will travel to the cytosol in the middle of the cell and will be converted by lactate dehydrogenase into oxalate. Then THAT oxalate will cause more oxidative stress, and around and around we

go!> > Here is a diagram of that cycle: http://lowoxalate.info/oxalateandoxidativestresschart.tif> > So the issue is the miralax may put you on that cycle in the first place, and to get off, you have to stop the body making new oxalate and you have to get the B6 chemistry adequate to be able to keep making glutathione and do its other jobs.> > Does that make sense? You can copy this to Miralax if you'd like.> > You are definitely having a dump with all the right signs! I'm glad Karla is helping you. She is amazing...a one woman tornado in getting things done with great heart and creativity to boot!> > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:54 +0000> Subject: [Trying_Low_Oxalates]

Symptoms?> > > > > > > How did you know that oxalates was the problem? I am wondering if this diet would help my son but due to his food intolerances and therefore limited diet anyways I am reluctant to try another diet. So can anyone tell me what signs and symptoms there would be if there is an oxalate issue? Thanks> > > > > > > >