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Larry,

I have these ERCP's all the time now...only way to keep that bile duct open

these

days. At any rate, you might want to ask the doc to change the drugs. I know

demerol makes me nauseous, and so does any morphine or morphine-like drug. In

'97

they gave me morphine (because I already knew demerol wouldn't work), and I

almost

had to stay over at the hospital just because of the nausea afterwards; it was

terrible. So now they have shifted to some other combination (I can't remember

what that is), and I don't get sick.

I, too, have a hard time waking up after the procedure. I know that sometimes I

can remember coming around before the procedure is finished, and because the

tube

is down my throat, I want to gag. They have to shoot me up with another batch

of

drugs so I don't mess up the procedure, and that means that I am much groggier

at

the end of the procedure. I've just gotten used to it, though, and plan to

sleep

it off at home. I also find that when I am that groggy, I am also " cranky "

about

having to wake up to get home (it's an hour's drive back to Manchester NH from

Boston). I warn the people who take me about that part.

I haven't had many complications from the ERCP, thank goodness....the bandings

of

the esophageal varices are done by endoscopy, and I have more pain afterwards

with

those. They now combine the two procedures. I have the ERCP first. Then they

put the scope down to check the esophagus and stomach for formation of new

varices, and band these off if need be.

Good luck on your next procedure. I'm going in April 15 for my next

ERCP/endoscopy. I call it my valium holiday at NEMC Spa (nee Endoscopy

unit)...have to have a sense of humor about this stuff. Because I go so

frequently, I have asked various friends to take me. We get to visit some on

the

way down, then while I'm having the procedure done, they can go tour Boston for

a

couple of hours, come back, and drive me back home. It's worked really well, so

far.

OneAVIDman@... wrote:

> I have had two ERCPs done. The first was when I was dx with PSC back in '95. I

> didn't have any problems at all then. I even woke up just before they pulled

> the scope out of my mouth. They said the drugs wore off a little too soon.

>

> I had the second one back in January and it was a lot different. I talked to

> the Dr. just before and told him about waking up and he said he would give

> just a little more drugs this time. I think that is where my problem was. They

> gave me just a little bit too much. When I woke up I was already in recover. I

> could hardly stay awake and then I started getting sick. I couldn't keep

> anything down at all. I tried drinking just a little water but to no avail. I

> had the problem all evening. I finally went to bed after 10pm and only got

> sick once.

>

> I stayed home the next day and started getting liquids back in me. It took me

> the full day to finally start feeling better.

>

> I think the bottom line for me was, TOO MUCH DRUGS!!! During the follow-up

> visit he did say that the drugs would have to be adjusted for the next one. Or

> he could try a different one altogether. It will probably be different the

> next time too.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Larry

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eGroups Spotlight:

> " Kosovo-Reports " - Direct reports from Kosovo/Serbia/Yugoslavia.

> http://offers./click/252/0

>

>

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, etc.,

Tell me more about the banding of varices. What is the procedure? How long

does it last, etc.

Dan

On Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:50 AM, mltill [sMTP:mlt118@...] wrote:

> I haven't had many complications from the ERCP, thank goodness....the

bandings of

> the esophageal varices are done by endoscopy, and I have more pain

afterwards with

> those. They now combine the two procedures. I have the ERCP first. Then

they

> put the scope down to check the esophagus and stomach for formation of new

> varices, and band these off if need be.

>

> Good luck on your next procedure. I'm going in April 15 for my next

> ERCP/endoscopy. I call it my valium holiday at NEMC Spa (nee Endoscopy

> unit)...have to have a sense of humor about this stuff. Because I go so

> frequently, I have asked various friends to take me. We get to visit some

on the

> way down, then while I'm having the procedure done, they can go tour

Boston for a

> couple of hours, come back, and drive me back home. It's worked really

well, so

> far.

>

>

>

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Dan,

As my disease progressed, I had formation of esophageal varices, and this led to

a nasty internal bleed in May, 1998. These varices are formed by portal

hypertension...i.e., the blood flow through the liver slows as the liver

deteriorates, and then there is more pressure as the blood flows through the

stomach and esophagus.

At the time of the bleed, the GI doc performed an emergency banding off of the

varices. He put a scope down my esophagus which located the varices. Once he

had located one of the varices, he pushed a button, and a band from the scope

shot off the scope and closed off the varices and stopped the bleeding. The

scope is called a " six shooter " because it has six bands on it.

The bleed happened when I was in Keene, NH, and I stayed in the hospital for

several days--two in intensive care. I lost 2 liters of blood in a short period

of time, and I was given 3 pints shortly after arriving at the ER. I have been

anemic ever since the bleed--just can't seem to shake it, but that, too, could

be due to the progression of the illness.

When I got back to Manchester, Dr. Lee, my doc at New England Medical in

Boston, scheduled me in for an endoscopy two weeks after the bleed (June,

1998). Sure enough, I had formed four new varices. After that, she scheduled

me in monthly for endoscopy/banding procedures, and I usually had to have new

varices banded. The bandings take about 15-20 minutes to perform. Of course,

there's always the preparation beforehand (starting IV's, etc.). I usually

could be done in 2-3 hours. Approximately 24-48 hours after the bandings,

though, I really could feel the pain from the procedure. I got used to eating

puddings, Carnation Instant Breakfast, jello, and ginger ale for a few days

until the soreness in my esophagus subsided.

In October, I had just had a banding when I got an infection from a blockage in

my bile duct. They couldn't do an ERCP to alleviate the blockage due to the

fact that the bandings were susceptible to being dislodged by the scope they

would use for the ERCP. So, they pumped me full of antibiotics, and they sent

me home to wait for the ERCP. That's when they came up with the idea of doing

the ERCP on a regular basis (instead of waiting for a bout of cholangitis), and

doing the banding immediately afterwards.

Luckily for me I have not formed new varices that need banding since November.

I am on a medication that lowers my blood pressure to hopefully prevent the

pressure that causes the varices, but unfortunately, I tend to run a low blood

pressure normally, and sometimes I get dizzy from the addition of the medicine.

So, I occasionally check my blood pressure to make sure the upper number is at

least above 100 before I take the medication.

I have, on my own, however, decided that I will not travel over an hour away

from a hospital that has a " six-shooter " available. The GI doc in Keene, NH

warned me of this...He stated that a woman died from a bleed in a small town in

Mass. last year because the hospital could not band off the varices. I also no

longer fly, which is a bummer because I'd love to see my kids and grandson in

D.C....They now come to see me, though. Better safe than sorry...

The bleeding is related to cirhossis, and only comes with end-stage symptoms of

liver deterioration. It isn't a problem with only PSC...people with other liver

diseases have the same difficulties.

Because I had been in touch over E-Mail with Roy and Toutant, I knew about

the esophageal bleeding before mine occurred. has had two bleeds. During

the scariest moments of the whole event, I just kept reminding myself that I

would survive this because I knew of 's experience. That's why groups like

this are so helpful. Roy and gave me lots of good information about this

whole process before I had to experience it myself.

Wow! This is a long answer to your question....I guess I rattle on a lot...

Dan Bertles wrote:

> , etc.,

>

> Tell me more about the banding of varices. What is the procedure? How long

> does it last, etc.

>

> Dan

>

> On Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:50 AM, mltill [sMTP:mlt118@...] wrote:

> > I haven't had many complications from the ERCP, thank goodness....the

> bandings of

> > the esophageal varices are done by endoscopy, and I have more pain

> afterwards with

> > those. They now combine the two procedures. I have the ERCP first. Then

> they

> > put the scope down to check the esophagus and stomach for formation of new

> > varices, and band these off if need be.

> >

> > Good luck on your next procedure. I'm going in April 15 for my next

> > ERCP/endoscopy. I call it my valium holiday at NEMC Spa (nee Endoscopy

> > unit)...have to have a sense of humor about this stuff. Because I go so

> > frequently, I have asked various friends to take me. We get to visit some

> on the

> > way down, then while I'm having the procedure done, they can go tour

> Boston for a

> > couple of hours, come back, and drive me back home. It's worked really

> well, so

> > far.

> >

> >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eGroups Spotlight:

> " Kosovo-Reports " - Direct reports from Kosovo/Serbia/Yugoslavia.

> http://offers./click/252/0

>

>

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Guest guest

Thanks ,

One last question. The " banding " is it like a staple or a clamp; plastic,

metal?

Dan

On Tuesday, March 30, 1999 9:05 AM, mltill [sMTP:mlt118@...] wrote:

> Dan,

>

> As my disease progressed, I had formation of esophageal varices, and this

led to

> a nasty internal bleed in May, 1998. These varices are formed by portal

> hypertension...i.e., the blood flow through the liver slows as the liver

> deteriorates, and then there is more pressure as the blood flows through

the

> stomach and esophagus.

>

> At the time of the bleed, the GI doc performed an emergency banding off of

the

> varices. He put a scope down my esophagus which located the varices.

Once he

> had located one of the varices, he pushed a button, and a band from the

scope

> shot off the scope and closed off the varices and stopped the bleeding.

The

> scope is called a " six shooter " because it has six bands on it.

> The bleed happened when I was in Keene, NH, and I stayed in the hospital

for

> several days--two in intensive care. I lost 2 liters of blood in a short

period

> of time, and I was given 3 pints shortly after arriving at the ER. I have

been

> anemic ever since the bleed--just can't seem to shake it, but that, too,

could

> be due to the progression of the illness.

>

> When I got back to Manchester, Dr. Lee, my doc at New England Medical in

> Boston, scheduled me in for an endoscopy two weeks after the bleed (June,

> 1998). Sure enough, I had formed four new varices. After that, she

scheduled

> me in monthly for endoscopy/banding procedures, and I usually had to have

new

> varices banded. The bandings take about 15-20 minutes to perform. Of

course,

> there's always the preparation beforehand (starting IV's, etc.). I

usually

> could be done in 2-3 hours. Approximately 24-48 hours after the bandings,

> though, I really could feel the pain from the procedure. I got used to

eating

> puddings, Carnation Instant Breakfast, jello, and ginger ale for a few

days

> until the soreness in my esophagus subsided.

>

> In October, I had just had a banding when I got an infection from a

blockage in

> my bile duct. They couldn't do an ERCP to alleviate the blockage due to

the

> fact that the bandings were susceptible to being dislodged by the scope

they

> would use for the ERCP. So, they pumped me full of antibiotics, and they

sent

> me home to wait for the ERCP. That's when they came up with the idea of

doing

> the ERCP on a regular basis (instead of waiting for a bout of

cholangitis), and

> doing the banding immediately afterwards.

>

> Luckily for me I have not formed new varices that need banding since

November.

> I am on a medication that lowers my blood pressure to hopefully prevent

the

> pressure that causes the varices, but unfortunately, I tend to run a low

blood

> pressure normally, and sometimes I get dizzy from the addition of the

medicine.

> So, I occasionally check my blood pressure to make sure the upper number

is at

> least above 100 before I take the medication.

>

> I have, on my own, however, decided that I will not travel over an hour

away

> from a hospital that has a " six-shooter " available. The GI doc in Keene,

NH

> warned me of this...He stated that a woman died from a bleed in a small

town in

> Mass. last year because the hospital could not band off the varices. I

also no

> longer fly, which is a bummer because I'd love to see my kids and grandson

in

> D.C....They now come to see me, though. Better safe than sorry...

>

> The bleeding is related to cirhossis, and only comes with end-stage

symptoms of

> liver deterioration. It isn't a problem with only PSC...people with other

liver

> diseases have the same difficulties.

>

> Because I had been in touch over E-Mail with Roy and Toutant, I knew

about

> the esophageal bleeding before mine occurred. has had two bleeds.

During

> the scariest moments of the whole event, I just kept reminding myself that

I

> would survive this because I knew of 's experience. That's why

groups like

> this are so helpful. Roy and gave me lots of good information about

this

> whole process before I had to experience it myself.

>

> Wow! This is a long answer to your question....I guess I rattle on a

lot...

>

>

>

> Dan Bertles wrote:

>

> > , etc.,

> >

> > Tell me more about the banding of varices. What is the procedure? How

long

> > does it last, etc.

> >

> > Dan

> >

> > On Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:50 AM, mltill [sMTP:mlt118@...]

wrote:

> > > I haven't had many complications from the ERCP, thank goodness....the

> > bandings of

> > > the esophageal varices are done by endoscopy, and I have more pain

> > afterwards with

> > > those. They now combine the two procedures. I have the ERCP first.

Then

> > they

> > > put the scope down to check the esophagus and stomach for formation of

new

> > > varices, and band these off if need be.

> > >

> > > Good luck on your next procedure. I'm going in April 15 for my next

> > > ERCP/endoscopy. I call it my valium holiday at NEMC Spa (nee

Endoscopy

> > > unit)...have to have a sense of humor about this stuff. Because I go

so

> > > frequently, I have asked various friends to take me. We get to visit

some

> > on the

> > > way down, then while I'm having the procedure done, they can go tour

> > Boston for a

> > > couple of hours, come back, and drive me back home. It's worked really

> > well, so

> > > far.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > eGroups Spotlight:

> > " Kosovo-Reports " - Direct reports from Kosovo/Serbia/Yugoslavia.

> > http://offers./click/252/0

> >

> >

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Guest guest

,

Thanks for the info on the ERCP. I will make sure the next time I am scheduled

that I ask him about the drugs. I hope I don't have to go for another 3 years

like the last one. Good luck with yours, my prayers are with you.

Larry

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest guest

-

I'm glad to hear you are so much better. I'm just catching up on a few

days' of mail. Had computer problems first and now I'm a bit under the

weather--have been in bed for more than 24 hrs and still feel wiped out.

This is the first time I've sat up for any length of time.

I hope you are continuing to do well. I've heard that once you have a

reaction to something--be it medications or bee stings, etc. -- that each

successive time is worse. So take care.

Thoughts & Prayers are with you.

Laurie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Guest guest

Laurie,

Thanks for the information. I tried to bring up the reaction to my doc, but

she didn't seem to want to tie it immediately to the ERCP and the

antibiotics....Now I'm really worried about the ERCP next time (May 28). I

don't think I can handle much worse of a reaction!

When I talked to her yesterday on the phone, I thought that I'd just see if

it happens again, and if it does, then it will prove that it's related to the

antibiotics. However, now, I don't know if that's such a good idea.

I am supposed to keep a daily journal related to bowel movements (YUK...the

things we do because of this disease!). So, if I go for a while without the

watery diaherea, then I will let her know before the ERCP about my concerns.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time. That candle I am burning for

will just have to do double duty, and send some healing energy

your way, also. Take care, and thanks for keeping in touch.

Oceandrmer@... wrote:

> -

> I'm glad to hear you are so much better. I'm just catching up on a few

> days' of mail. Had computer problems first and now I'm a bit under the

> weather--have been in bed for more than 24 hrs and still feel wiped out.

> This is the first time I've sat up for any length of time.

>

> I hope you are continuing to do well. I've heard that once you have a

> reaction to something--be it medications or bee stings, etc. -- that each

> successive time is worse. So take care.

>

> Thoughts & Prayers are with you.

> Laurie

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in

> Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent,

> Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US

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>

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest guest

,

What is ERCP? I am assuming it is the balloon therapy. How do they get

into the ducts that snake off into all directions?

Larry P.

glenn+janet wrote:

>

> ,

>

> My name is Janet and I was DX 6 yrs ago with PSC. I have had only one ERCP

> and I am on Actigall, 600 mgs. per day. I seem to be holding my own and

> this past March my LFT's were not too bad according to Dr. Lee in Boston.

> An ultrasound did not show any further damage to my liver( same as 5 years

> ago).

>

> I'm holding my own for now but PSC is very unpredictable.

>

> Welcome to the group and I'll be talking to you.

>

> Janet

>

> Re: from -Brown

> >

> >

> > -Brown--

> > Welcome to our group, although it's too bad we get to know you in this

> way.

> > I've had PSC for 12 years (diagnosed in '87), but possibly as long ago as

> > 1980 when my liver enzymes

> > first became elevated & I had bouts of cholangitis. I have had numerous

> > ERCPs and don't know where to start to give you info. So maybe the best

> > thing is if you have particular questions, feel free & I (and others who

> > have

> > experienced this) will be able to answer.

> >

> > In the meantime, know that we are here for you and each other, whenever

> you

> > need us.

> >

> > Take Care.

> >

> > Laurie

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > @Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service

> > Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup and Restores. FREE for

> > 30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V!

> > http://clickhere./click/218

> >

> >

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