Vagal AF

November 27, 2000

Lawrence, I spent about 50 years in lone Paroxysmal AF, and I never

did notice any of the symptoms they contribute to Vagal AF, but from

what I think about AF, is it does not have a set rule it goes by.

It seems to think it can effect most people in different ways.

I also agree with you that has a excellent idea on the blood

test that I would like to see carried out, but as you say getting it

done is another problem.

> I have a number of things to throw out in this post.

>

> (1) Dorean, you wrote in a recent post of your Doc. Marody

having

> identified you as having vagally-mediated AF as a result

of " extensive

> testing " .....Can you give some idea of how this is determined? Do

they

> identify Vagal as opposed to Adrenergic AF by means other than

> anecdotal evidence? Could you elucidate? It is my understanding

that a

> fair proportion of cardiologists don't even agree that there ARE

the

> both forms of AF. This is very important to me, because I will be

> seeing a different cardio soon, and I am VERY much concerned that

he

> RECOGNIZES this difference. I seem to be one of those that are

> affected by both trigger families, making prescribing MUCH more

> difficult.

>

> (2)I wonder how many of us actually have both types, and how

many

> started with one type, but as they become more vulnerable through

> whatever process, find themselves unhappy prisoners in both camps?

> Maybe another poll? We need some numbers for our arsenal.

>

> (3)In preparing myself to be more knowledgeable about my

options,

> I would like to see some input by anyone who has had positive

> responses by being treated with a med for the adrenergic AF, and

using

> Norpace (dispryomide ??) on occasions of vagal AF.

> (4), I think you're on the right track with the plan to

have

> a series of blood tests documenting the situation in various stages

of

> AF. But how does one convince the POWERS THAT BE ? to actually do

> that? I can't conceive of our Medicare System in Canada " wasting

> money " on approaches that have great longterm impact. Much favored

are

> stopgap short term bandaids. I am more and more convinced that the

> entire approach to AF has to change. Why not pay more attention to

> CONDITIONS THAT EXIST AT THE MOMENT AN AF EPISODE CEASES, COMPARING

> THOSE CONDITIONS TO THE ONES THAT EXIST DURING THAT IMPENDING

PERIOD

> THAT MOST OF US RECOGNIZE ?? Again, I add here that the positive

> feeling of wellbeing most of us seem to experience immediately

after a

> return to Sinus, as opposed to the feeling that exists while we are

> yet in Sinus but on the way to AF, IS EXTREMELY RELEVANT, AND HOLDS

> THE ANSWERS. BUT HOW TO GET THE MATTER TO THE ATTENTION OF THOSE IN

> CONTROL ?

> (5)Is there anyone out there who can say their doctors listen

to

> what their patients say, and show a willingness to use innovative

> approaches to the individual situations, instead of throwing us all

in

> the same box? Maybe STILL ANOTHER POLL???

> I really believe the answer to AF is so elusive because the

> patients aren't considered qualified as sources of reliable info.

We

> only know what we feel and what we've observed. Irrelevan stuff.

> Sound a little bitter? Sorry. It's my experience talking.

> My 2 cents worth. 2 cents Candian = zippo US. A good day to

> all. Hope to hear some input. Lawrence.

November 30, 2000

> But, I did have a lot of skipped

> beats and odd things happening which I recorded.

Can anyone say what their docs have said about such oddities? I have

those, and don't know whether to consider them afib symptoms

(although they are not true afib) or not. When I wore the 24 hour

monitor, my doc dismissed isolated " extra beats " as " something

everyone has " , but the things I am asking about are just a few

seconds long if that - sometimes one skipped beat in isolation,

sometimes a few seconds of a racing pulse, etc. Is this normal or

associated with a heart that is out of whack a la the afib?

November 30, 2000

> But, I did have a lot of skipped

> beats and odd things happening which I recorded.

>Can anyone say what their docs have said about such oddities? I have

>those, and don't know whether to consider them afib symptoms

>(although they are not true afib) or not. When I wore the 24 hour

>monitor, my doc dismissed isolated " extra beats " as " something

>everyone has " , but the things I am asking about are just a few

>seconds long if that - sometimes one skipped beat in isolation,

>sometimes a few seconds of a racing pulse, etc. Is this normal or

>associated with a heart that is out of whack a la the afib?

I think the answer is both. (why can't this be simple!) I believe it is

perfectly normal for everyone to have skipped best. (I think I've read somewhere

the Mr. average can have a couple a day). If you are having many more than this

of if the time between one beat and the next gets too long it can be indicative

of other problems (like AF). I've had 4 or 5 tape test now, 2 of which were 48

rather than 24 hours. Only one of the tests showed any skipped beats and my

cardio didn't think there was enough information to indicate anything unusual. I

believe the tape test is also one way they can discover whether you have a

dominant vagal tone. I'm having another tape test on the 14th and I'm hoping I

can hold on to my next attack until then -I've always been in NSR on the other

tests. I think one of the problems is that many people with AF get the 6th sense

and are much more aware of what their heart is doing. If you do get a 'normal'

skipped beat you are much more likely to feel it than someone without AF.

--

D

AFibbers Database http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

AFib Suport Group /group/AFIBsupport

November 30, 2000

re:odd heartbeats on a daily basis, I've had them for years and years,

attributed to a prolapsed mitral valve. I've pretty much learned to live

with it. Not much is known, apparently, as to whether there is any

correlation with AF. btw, I have fewer of the odd beats since beginning

Coenzyme Q10 (120mg total taken throughout the day). In a book called

" Heart Sense for Women " it states that " studies have shown that CoQ10,

acting as what we call a 'membrane stabilizer' on the heart's electrical

conduction system, can make it harder for arrhythmias to get triggered in

the first place. " In the kardiologist's [hi Vicky] practice, he states that

he has found " that about half of [his] patients have very positive results

with CoQ10. " He doesn't say anything about atrial phibrillation [hi again

Vicky :-)]. The only trouble is, it is terribly expensive and insurance

plans won't cover it because it is still considered to be an " alternative

treatment. "

Sandy

Re: Vagal AF

>

>> But, I did have a lot of skipped

>> beats and odd things happening which I recorded.