Re: They still don't get it

[Guest guest]

Weird. One thing I'm discussing (although in a round-about way) is the idea

that the Incarnate God of the Gospels was autistic. The idea that one is

" in the world, but not of the world " sounds a bit like autism, if you

consider " the ways of the world " to be social reality, rather than physical

or Platonic reality. According to some, if I understand them correctly, a

child being made fun of for having a speech disorder (like my cousin, who

was called " Wobert " all the time), is as natural as gravity. But, a person

not pronouncing words the way others do neither picks my pocket or breaks my

leg. I think Russel or Voltaire or Shaw once said something to the effect

of " my right to swing my first ends where your face begins. " I agree with

this, *especially* that a person has the right to swing their fists, flap

their arms, rock in their chairs, or do any other stim that isn't harming

another person.

If you can, you might want to show them the episode of " Touched by an Angel "

that has Corkey as a guest star. (There's two, actually). It's very

powerful, in my opinion. The thing with Corkey is that *he is an angel* on

this series. That's right, *God Himself decided to make an Angel with Down

Syndrome.* Now, this is a work of fiction and not theology, but it does

raise my eyebrows as to the whole " why not? " If believes that *she*

will be the same person in heaven as she is on Earth, then why would *you*

not be the same person as well, Gail?

I don't want to get into a huge religious debate (although I wouldn't really

mind it, I'll admit, as I tend to preservate on topics of that nature). I'm

just saying that if you belive that God made you the way you are, and you

don't have a problem with it, and God doesn't have a problem with it, then

why should anyone be complaining to God?

[Guest guest]

Gail wrote:

>The way she prayed was interesting. She didn't use the word autism at all,

>but I could tell that the way she was praying suggested that she thought it

>was something I needed to be cured of. She kept praying for my brain to be

>healed and all that. Well, I figured that was a generic enough prayer to let

>go, so I did.

>

>Then at one point she prayed that I would " come out " more. IOW, be more

>social. I am very selective in who I talk to and what I talk about, and as I

>said in a recent post, many mistake my not talking enough (by their

>standards) as being shy or timid. Now, I explained this to a couple of

>weeks ago. That I talk when I want to and feel the need to (even though

>there are the occasional brain freezes).

>

>Still, she prays this way! *sigh* Shows me she still doesn't get it. At one

>point they asked Dick to pray for me, and I loved his prayer! He prayed that

>people would learn to love and accept me the way I am and not want me to be

>the way *they* think I should be. I was so happy and relieved to hear him

>pray that because at times he has gone back and forth on accepting my

>autistic self and wanting me to be different. So it was great to hear him

>pray that way.

Sounds like Dick could explain a few things to . She

obviously doen't " get " it, and if I were in your place I

would feel quite insulted by her kind of prayer (even

though I realize she means it for the best). I hope you

will be able to find a way to continue educating her to

the point where she will understand that not being like her

is not such a bad thing!

Jane

[Guest guest]

> If you can, you might want to show them the episode of " Touched by

> an Angel " that has Corkey as a guest star.

Aside from the fact that I don't even like that kind of show, the

show they did on autism was *awful*.

It had a so-called " angel " going up to an autistic guy and

*insisting* he look at her and look at her face, and when he refused

and said it was too shiny, she said something like " This one's got

real problems, " and went off to confer with the other ones. I think

the premise ended up being that they had to save him from being

dangerously misunderstood by other people or something, but they

never showed that great of an understanding of him either, and

treated him (and maybe even said once or twice) as if he was broken.

[Guest guest]

> I think

> the premise ended up being that they had to save him from being

> dangerously misunderstood by other people or something, but they

> never showed that great of an understanding of him either, and

> treated him (and maybe even said once or twice) as if he was broken.

Thank God I never saw that one. An autistic person is no more a " broken "

person then an HDTV is a " broken " TV.

[Guest guest]

I believe it Gail, (about the bravery)... I have been dealing with the

non-religious version of that over here (my friends just give me medical

advice with no thot to the fact that they are NT and I'm not...) it all

is the same where they want you to be fixed...

sounds like your process is good for when you need to be exposed to the

ignorant perceptions of others... I wish I had that kind of calm in the

face of that sort of thing... I just keep yelling at people these

days!(yeah I know I am being defensive - you gotta problem with that?

lol) ;-)

dani

Gail Pennington wrote:

> I think I have mentioned before that I have " come out " to my church

> about my

> being autistic. One thing I was concerned about was them wanting to

> pray for

> me to get the " demon of autism " out of me.

>

> Some of the things the Pastor's wife have said the last few weeks

> here

> and there made me concerned that she would try and do so at some point. We

> have a prayer meeting at our house every other Monday night, and we

> had one

> last night.

>

> I wasn't feeling well and everyone noticed, so at the end of the meeting

> they all decided to pray for me. When prayed for me I was highly

> alert. If she even tried to pray about autism being negative or demonic I

> would have had to cause a scene and stand against that.

>

> The way she prayed was interesting. She didn't use the word autism at all,

> but I could tell that the way she was praying suggested that she

> thought it

> was something I needed to be cured of. She kept praying for my brain to be

> healed and all that. Well, I figured that was a generic enough prayer

> to let

> go, so I did.

>

> Then at one point she prayed that I would " come out " more. IOW, be more

> social. I am very selective in who I talk to and what I talk about,

> and as I

> said in a recent post, many mistake my not talking enough (by their

> standards) as being shy or timid. Now, I explained this to a

> couple of

> weeks ago. That I talk when I want to and feel the need to (even though

> there are the occasional brain freezes).

>

> Still, she prays this way! *sigh* Shows me she still doesn't get it.

> At one

> point they asked Dick to pray for me, and I loved his prayer! He

> prayed that

> people would learn to love and accept me the way I am and not want me

> to be

> the way *they* think I should be. I was so happy and relieved to hear him

> pray that because at times he has gone back and forth on accepting my

> autistic self and wanting me to be different. So it was great to hear him

> pray that way.

>

> After the prayer was done both Gretchen and told me that they

> wanted me

> to talk more because I have good things to say. They still seem to think

> that I don't say more because I am too afraid or something. As I stated

> before, I don't feel any great need to share my opinions with the world at

> large. So, if they want me to share more, that is fine. What irks me is

> their thinking that the reason I don't is because of fear.

>

> Dick and I discussed it afterward and he just shook his head. He said I am

> the boldest person they have in that church and he hoped they would

> eventually figure that out!

>

> Take care,

> Gail :-)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

great analogy Kaiden!

high definition...!? I love it!

cheers

dani

Kaiden Fox wrote:

> > I think

> > the premise ended up being that they had to save him from being

> > dangerously misunderstood by other people or something, but they

> > never showed that great of an understanding of him either, and

> > treated him (and maybe even said once or twice) as if he was broken.

>

> Thank God I never saw that one. An autistic person is no more a " broken "

> person then an HDTV is a " broken " TV.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kaiden wrote:

> The idea that one is

> " in the world, but not of the world " sounds a bit like autism, if you

> consider " the ways of the world " to be social reality, rather than

physical

> or Platonic reality.

I wonder if some of the prophets in the Old Testament were autistic. I think

that would actually help one to be a better prophet. Not being as concerned

with what people think and being able to say the unpopular but necessary

things. Being able to think outside the box, that sort of thing.

One thing my grown son likes about me is that he says I am not a lemming. I

think for myself and don't just follow the party line of whatever church I

attend. That has sometimes gotten me the label of " rebel " , since I question

things and don't just blindly follow what church leadership teaches.

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

> > If you can, you might want to show them the episode of " Touched by

> > an Angel " that has Corkey as a guest star.

>

> Aside from the fact that I don't even like that kind of show, the

> show they did on autism was *awful*.

>

> It had a so-called " angel " going up to an autistic guy and

> *insisting* he look at her and look at her face, and when he refused

> and said it was too shiny, she said something like " This one's got

> real problems, " and went off to confer with the other ones. I think

> the premise ended up being that they had to save him from being

> dangerously misunderstood by other people or something, but they

> never showed that great of an understanding of him either, and

> treated him (and maybe even said once or twice) as if he was broken.

>

>

I saw that years before I knew I was on the spectrum. So I saw it from

the point of view of a rather idealistic teenager who had read some

stories about autistic children and occasionally babysat a small boy

with severe autism. At the time I liked it, bearing in mind that I

liked the whole series. Among other things I liked the fact that I

recognised that he had autism.

I haven't seen it for years, I'm not sure what my reaction would be

like now considering how much more I know etc.

Jen

[Guest guest]

Jane wrote:

> Sounds like Dick could explain a few things to . She

> obviously doesn't " get " it, and if I were in your place I

> would feel quite insulted by her kind of prayer (even

> though I realize she means it for the best). I hope you

> will be able to find a way to continue educating her to

> the point where she will understand that not being like her

> is not such a bad thing!

Well, considering what she *could* have prayed, that one wasn't so bad. If

she had started rebuking the demon of autism or something similar I would

have had to stop her in her tracks. I really was relieved that I wasn't

faced with having to do that. All the people praying for me meant well.

However, if they all had started doing the " ooga booga " type prayer over me,

forget it. I wouldn't have cared about their feelings then!

I am slowly but surely taking a quiet stand for myself in that church about

this. I have had the opportunity so far to talk with a couple of women who

have autistic people in their lives, and they have asked me questions. They

have been interested in WFAP and I told them how they could order it.

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

Dani wrote:

> I wish I had that kind of calm in the

> face of that sort of thing... I just keep yelling at people these

> days!(yeah I know I am being defensive - you gotta problem with that?

> lol) ;-)

Well, there have been times when I wasn't so calm as I was last night. When

I am not, then things get really " interesting " . ;-)

Take care,

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

> > The idea that one is

> > " in the world, but not of the world " sounds a bit like autism, if you

> > consider " the ways of the world " to be social reality, rather than

> physical

> > or Platonic reality.

>

> I wonder if some of the prophets in the Old Testament were autistic.

I think

> that would actually help one to be a better prophet. Not being as

concerned

> with what people think and being able to say the unpopular but necessary

> things. Being able to think outside the box, that sort of thing.

>

> One thing my grown son likes about me is that he says I am not a

lemming. I

> think for myself and don't just follow the party line of whatever

church I

> attend. That has sometimes gotten me the label of " rebel " , since I

question

> things and don't just blindly follow what church leadership teaches.

>

> Take care,

> Gail :-)

Yep that's the sort of thing that got our whole family in trouble when

I was a child. I grew up in a brethern church (very fundie) and even

after dad had a qualification from an associated bible school they

still wouldn't let him teach. He had the nerve to question what was

said and to learn greek and read the greek version. I remember some of

the times he taught while we were in a different city and mum and dad

were at bible school, he was good. He would point out things like the

fact that in the greek there are 3 words for love, each with different

meanings and that when Jesus is asking about loving him and

feeding his lambs he changes what word he uses on the third

repetition. Stuff like that.

I guess a similar thing is why I'm having problems trying to find a

church to go to now. That and the fact that I don't do well with big

crowds of strangers and my personaly beliefs are currently both weird

and fragmentary.

Jen

[Guest guest]

Jen wrote:

>Yep that's the sort of thing that got our whole family in trouble when

>I was a child. I grew up in a brethern church (very fundie)....

I'm half Brethren, Jen. My mother's father was a Brethren

minister. She switched to the Society of Friends as a young

adult, but her sister (they were the only siblings) stayed

with the church. My aunt married a Brethren minister and

had four children, two of whom became Brethren ministers.

Jane