Re: Exercise induced Afib

[Guest guest]

keithf.ritchie@... wrote:

> Hi,

>

> My name is . I am 52 years old and have afib. I have been very

> active physically for the last 15 years or so. Originally my afib

> showed up only after heavy alcohol consumption. Then about 3 years

> ago I went into a state of atrial flutter ( I think) when doing some

> extremely energetic cycling. I do not drink alcohol now (or almost

> zero consumption.) The situation however, seems to have gotten

> worse. My latest afib session was today at 5:40 am. It lasted about

> 4 hours. One pattern I have detected is that after a strenuous

> activity such as a workout on a global gym, I will get afib some time

> later. Afib could occur 4 hrs after I finish my workout or even the

> next day. Has anybody else experienced this situation?

>

> I am currently taking metoprolol but do not like the side affects

> plus it does not prevent afib.

Your syndrome is almost exactly like mine. I began to run and bicycle

seriously in my early 40's. I've done about 20 marathons and 50-mile races,

usually finishing in the tope 3 in my age category. In my early 50's I began

to experience A-fib. It was intermittent and unpredictable at first, but soon

became more and more frequent. The first serious episode of AF I had happened

after a very hard 6-mile run. Over the years I've had to progressively cut

down on my workouts, until I can now no longer run steadily for more than a

mile or two, and that at a very slow jog. Often I find that intense exercise

will bring on an episode of fibrillation or flutter, but usually not until

later in the day--after dinner or later, when I've eaten or am relaxed.

Sometimes the episode comes on the next day.

I've taken just about all the drugs that are out there, including defetilide

(Tikosyn), and I've had a recent catheter ablation. The drugs are not

effective, and they all interfere with my level of physical activity. The

ablation has helped somewhat, but I still have episodes of AF or flutter

after strenuous workouts. There is a definite correlation between what people

on this site call " the big P " and the onset of fibrillation. I can predict

the onset of an episode of AF when I find myself having a hard time staying

out of the bathroom. Then, when the episode of AF is past and the frequent

urination subsides to normal levels I can again do anything I want to do

without bringing on another episode. My doctors have no explanation for this

cycle except to tell me the the heart produces an enzyme which stimulates the

kidneys to produce more urine than usual. Perhaps dehydration brings on AF.

Maybe there is leeching of essential nutrients (magnesium, calcium,

potassium, sodium). I'm taking magnesium/potassium/calcium supplements to see

if that has any long-term benefits. I'm keeping a journal to record patterns

which may help show me the relationship between my episodes of AF and other

factors. So far the only connections between what I do and episodes of AF or

flutter are strenuous exercise (which I LOVE), excessive alcohol consumption

(more than 2 glasses of wine a day), strong emotional upset, lack of sleep,

and frequent urination.

Keep in touch.

>

>

>

> Web Page /group/AFIBsupport

> Afibbers Database- http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> To Unsubscribe send an email to: AFIBsupport-unsubscribeegroups

> Daily digest mode: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-digestegroups

> Individual emails: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-normalegroups

> Read on web only: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-nomailegroups

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

>

> My name is . I am 52 years old and have afib. I have been

very

> active physically for the last 15 years or so. Originally my afib

> showed up only after heavy alcohol consumption. Then about 3 years

> ago I went into a state of atrial flutter ( I think) when doing

some

> extremely energetic cycling. I do not drink alcohol now (or almost

> zero consumption.) The situation however, seems to have gotten

> worse. My latest afib session was today at 5:40 am. It lasted

about

> 4 hours. One pattern I have detected is that after a strenuous

> activity such as a workout on a global gym, I will get afib some

time

> later. Afib could occur 4 hrs after I finish my workout or even

the

> next day. Has anybody else experienced this situation?

>

> I am currently taking metoprolol but do not like the side affects

> plus it does not prevent afib.

Hi, . I also experience delayed afib, but after stress not

after exercise. I am back in a high stress situation, and my heart

felt " funny " yesterday, and this morning I woke up in tachycardia for

some minutes. This delayed pattern has happened before.

Metoprolol is the regular name for toprol and one or two other

brands, I think. I am on toprol and the side effects suck (pain in

hands, depression, apathy, shortness of breath). I am hoping to go

off it entirely.

[Guest guest]

>

> > Hi,

> >

> > My name is . I am 52 years old and have afib. I have been

very

> > active physically for the last 15 years or so. Originally my afib

> > showed up only after heavy alcohol consumption. Then about 3

years

> > ago I went into a state of atrial flutter ( I think) when doing

some

> > extremely energetic cycling. I do not drink alcohol now (or almost

> > zero consumption.) The situation however, seems to have gotten

> > worse. My latest afib session was today at 5:40 am. It lasted

about

> > 4 hours. One pattern I have detected is that after a strenuous

> > activity such as a workout on a global gym, I will get afib some

time

> > later. Afib could occur 4 hrs after I finish my workout or even

the

> > next day. Has anybody else experienced this situation?

> >

> > I am currently taking metoprolol but do not like the side affects

> > plus it does not prevent afib.

>

> Your syndrome is almost exactly like mine. I began to run and

bicycle

> seriously in my early 40's. I've done about 20 marathons and 50-mile

races,

> usually finishing in the tope 3 in my age category. In my early 50's

I began

> to experience A-fib. It was intermittent and unpredictable at first,

but soon

> became more and more frequent. The first serious episode of AF I had

happened

> after a very hard 6-mile run. Over the years I've had to

progressively cut

> down on my workouts, until I can now no longer run steadily for more

than a

> mile or two, and that at a very slow jog. Often I find that intense

exercise

> will bring on an episode of fibrillation or flutter, but usually not

until

> later in the day--after dinner or later, when I've eaten or am

relaxed.

> Sometimes the episode comes on the next day.

>

> I've taken just about all the drugs that are out there, including

defetilide

> (Tikosyn), and I've had a recent catheter ablation. The drugs are

not

> effective, and they all interfere with my level of physical

activity. The

> ablation has helped somewhat, but I still have episodes of AF or

flutter

> after strenuous workouts. There is a definite correlation between

what people

> on this site call " the big P " and the onset of fibrillation. I can

predict

> the onset of an episode of AF when I find myself having a hard time

staying

> out of the bathroom. Then, when the episode of AF is past and the

frequent

> urination subsides to normal levels I can again do anything I want

to do

> without bringing on another episode. My doctors have no explanation

for this

> cycle except to tell me the the heart produces an enzyme which

stimulates the

> kidneys to produce more urine than usual. Perhaps dehydration brings

on AF.

> Maybe there is leeching of essential nutrients (magnesium, calcium,

> potassium, sodium). I'm taking magnesium/potassium/calcium

supplements to see

> if that has any long-term benefits. I'm keeping a journal to record

patterns

> which may help show me the relationship between my episodes of AF

and other

> factors. So far the only connections between what I do and episodes

of AF or

> flutter are strenuous exercise (which I LOVE), excessive alcohol

consumption

> (more than 2 glasses of wine a day), strong emotional upset, lack of

sleep,

> and frequent urination.

>

> Keep in touch.

- about the Big Pee. Your doctor's reaction to the Big P

question is typical. The fact that " the heart produces an enzyme that

stimulates the kidneys to produce more urine than usual... " is a

no-brainer. The intelligent approach would be to GO AFTER AN

UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY, AS SO MANY PEOPLE MUST HAVE TOLD THEIR

DOCTORS, AFTER A BIG P SESSION, THEY CAN LAUGH AT AFIB UNTIL THEIR

" CYCLICAL " TIME APPROACHES. WHAT HAS CHANGED? WHAT HAS BEEN DUMPED IN

ALL THIS PEE? WHY IS AF FOR THE MOMENT NOT IN THE EQUATION, EVEN

AFTER, LIKE MY LAST, LONGEST-EVER 36-HOUR EPISODE, IT APPEARED THAT

THE FAULTY RHYTHM WAS THE FAVOURED ONE? AND MY NEXT DAY WAS THE

BEST ONE FOR WEEKS! WHAT NEW ELECTROLYTIC BALANCE HAS BEEN ACHIEVED?

WHY IN GOD'S NAME ISN'T SUCH AN OBVIOUS CLUE FOLLOWED UP AVIDLY WITH

INTENSIVE, PROGRESSIVE TESTING THROUGHOUT THE EPISODE? TESTING OF

BLOOD MAKE-UP, URINE CONSTITUENTS, CHANGES IN ELECTROLYTIC BALANCE. i

AM CONVINCED THE ANSWER TO AF LIES RIGHT UNDER THE DOCTORS' NOSES, BUT

THEY ARE TOO BLINDED BY THEIR OWN APPROACHES TO SEE IT! HOW CAN WE GET

THEM TO DO THIS?

CAN SOMEONE PULL SOME STRINGS?

I'm frustrated, angry. Has this ever been done? Checking the changes

that are happening, I mean. It's so obviously a connection.

Lawrence

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Web Page /group/AFIBsupport

> > Afibbers Database- http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> > To Unsubscribe send an email to:

AFIBsupport-unsubscribeegroups

> > Daily digest mode: Send a blank message to

AFIBsupport-digestegroups

> > Individual emails: Send a blank message to

AFIBsupport-normalegroups

> > Read on web only: Send a blank message to

AFIBsupport-nomailegroups

[Guest guest]

Yep, I can pop into AF anywhere from a few minutes to 24 hours after exercise.

(can also pop into AF during strenuous exercise). I'm even convinced that it can

have an affect of 48 hours. (I have a 14-18 day cycle - if I exercise on day 12

I'm more likely to go into AF on day 14 rather than day 18)

--

D

AFibbers Database http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

AFib Suport Group /group/AFIBsupport

[Guest guest]

Hi Lawrence - I had to turn the volume down when reading your email . I can

fully understand your strong feelings and I'm hoping to get something done about

it.

I see my cardiologist in January and am going to bring the subject of daily

sampling up with him. A friend of mine, who is a medical researcher ( not

cardiology ), thinks I would have a better chance if I approach an academic

establishment but I'm going to try the easy route first.

I'm having a bit of a bad time at the moment and I think it's time to try a new

drug - If anyone has any suggestions I'd like to hear them. I've tried...

sotalol made me VERY ill

flecainide -

propafanone - either flecainide or propafanone gave me A'Flutter the other had

no affect

amiodarone -not bad but gave me thyrotoxicosis

bisoprolol - been ok for a while but doesn't keep my heart rate slow enough and

the last few attacks have been a bit to painful for my liking.

non of the above have ever stopped me going into AF only amiodarone and

bisoprolol kept my heart rate down when I went in.

I might ask about dofetilide but I'm not sure I'm the ideal candidate - maybe

azimilide is one to try, anyone had any experience with it?

I also intent to tell him about the database site to get his opinion on how the

science can be improved. (I'll do so number crunching before I see him)

I have a lot to talk about with him so I'm hoping I'm not in AF on that day. If

I'm in AF I'm not sure I'll have the strength to fight my corner.

P.S.

wishing everyone a peaceful and AF Free Christmas and New Year.

I wanted to send you all a card but the best I could come up with was this....

http://www.dialsolutions4.demon.co.uk/xmas.htm

--

D

[Guest guest]

Very sorry to hear you are having a bad time, . I hope it passes soon.

Have you taken diltiazem or a beta blocker, or aren't you a candidate for

that kind of treatment? Sandy

Re: Re: Exercise induced Afib

> I'm having a bit of a bad time at the moment and I think it's time to try

a new

> drug - If anyone has any suggestions I'd like to hear them.

[Guest guest]

>Very sorry to hear you are having a bad time, . I hope it passes soon.

>Have you taken diltiazem or a beta blocker, or aren't you a candidate for

>that kind of treatment? Sandy

I'm willing to give anything a try really. I think a lot of beta blockers are

not to good for vagal type AF, something I think I have but haven't formerly

being diagnosed with. Bisoprolol, my current drug, is a beta blocker and worked

quite well early on. Sotalol, another beta blocker made me very ill. I think

diltiazem is similar to verapamil (calcium channel blocker) - I've not tried

either - I'll see what the cardiologist suggests but I'm game for anything at

the moment!

cheers

--

D

[Guest guest]

, verapamil did nothing for me, but for some reason, diltiazem

(Cardizem) works great. I take 240mg a day plus 60mg at the onset of AF. I

didn't remember that you have vagal AF or I wouldn't have suggested beta

blockers. I had actually figured out I have vagal AF from all the

information from our egroup friends, so it felt good to have it formally

diagnosed by the cardiologist yesterday. Sandy

Re: Re: Exercise induced Afib

>

>

>

> >Very sorry to hear you are having a bad time, . I hope it passes

soon.

> >Have you taken diltiazem or a beta blocker, or aren't you a candidate for

> >that kind of treatment? Sandy

>

> I'm willing to give anything a try really. I think a lot of beta blockers

are

> not to good for vagal type AF, something I think I have but haven't

formerly

> being diagnosed with. Bisoprolol, my current drug, is a beta blocker and

worked

> quite well early on. Sotalol, another beta blocker made me very ill. I

think

> diltiazem is similar to verapamil (calcium channel blocker) - I've not

tried

> either - I'll see what the cardiologist suggests but I'm game for anything

at

> the moment!

>

> cheers

>

> --

> D

>

>

>

>

>

> Web Page /group/AFIBsupport

> Afibbers Database- http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> To Unsubscribe send an email to: AFIBsupport-unsubscribeegroups

> Daily digest mode: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-digestegroups

> Individual emails: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-normalegroups

> Read on web only: Send a blank message to AFIBsupport-nomailegroups

[Guest guest]

> Hi Your situation sounds like me and I'm sure many others.

Recently I had a stress test becuz I most usually went into AF during

or slightly after exercise. No problems shown on test...and reducing

my alcohol intake to zero did no good...still on the 14-21 day cycle

of AFib! The other day I went into it shaving( hardly exertion) in

the morning...so I am perplexed as to what the trigger is if any. I

am starting to believe that triggers are internal and not due to

exercise, stress or food but rather to some chemical change brought

on by the aforementioned events. Best to you and enjoy an occasional

beer...waht the heck! Bob

[Guest guest]

In regard to your questions about the ablation procedure I had in June:

1. It took a total of three and one-half hours. Of course I had to go the

day before hand for some blood tests and I had to arrive at the outpatient

facility at 6 a.m. in order to be prepared. Then I was not released until

about 3:30 p.m. after I had overcome the effects of the " twilight sleep "

anesthetic. I did have some nausea for a couple of hours after the procedure

but that passed. I took off the dressings the next day in the shower (they

were located in the groin) as directed and that was about it. I took it easy

the next day but I really didn't feel any special weakness or discomfort.

2. I don't think I would call the procedure painful. As I mentioned

before I had what they call " twilight sleep. " There was one point during the

procedure when I began to feel that I couldn't lie still any longer but that

feeling passed after the communicated with the anestheologist (sp?).Also as I

ended the procedure I had a charlie horse in one of my calves.

3. I don't know how I would react if I had to do it again. As I mentioned

to Trudy in one of my e-mails, I think it would be like having the second

baby after you had a difficult delivery with the first baby. You would be

reluctant to do it again but in the end you wouldn't have much choice.

4. My ablation was to end the AFlutter which had been constant for a

period of three months. It did not end the AFib which I still have

periodically. My AFib is usually without any symptoms.

5. It was done in El Paso Texas. There is only one cardiologist (in this

city of over 700,000) who does the procedure. My regular cardiologist (whom I

trust) decided with me that after trying to treat the AFlutter without

success for over three months that this would help. I should mention I have a

daughter who is an emergency room physician in El Paso and she had full faith

in the procedure and the medical personnel involved.

I've had every test know to man (and woman) includng the holter monitor.

I don't have heart disease and I'm trying to learn to live with this

condition and still live my life with optimism and energy. Here's to some

type of " final cure " breakthrough in 2001. Sharon

[Guest guest]

> > Your syndrome is almost exactly like mine. I began to run and

> bicycle

> > seriously in my early 40's. I've done about 20 marathons and 50-

> mile races,

> > usually finishing in the tope 3 in my age category. In my early

> 50's I began

> > to experience A-fib. It was intermittent and unpredictable at

> first, but soon

> > became more and more frequent. The first serious episode of AF I

> had happened

> > after a very hard 6-mile run. Over the years I've had to

> progressively cut

> > down on my workouts, until I can now no longer run steadily for

> more than a

> > mile or two, and that at a very slow jog. Often I find that intense

> exercise

> > will bring on an episode of fibrillation or flutter, but usually

> not until

> > later in the day--after dinner or later, when I've eaten or am

> relaxed.

> > Sometimes the episode comes on the next day.

> >

> > I've taken just about all the drugs that are out there, including

> defetilide

> > (Tikosyn), and I've had a recent catheter ablation. The drugs are

> not

> > effective, and they all interfere with my level of physical

> activity. The

> > ablation has helped somewhat, but I still have episodes of AF or

> flutter

> > after strenuous workouts. There is a definite correlation between

> what people

> > on this site call " the big P " and the onset of fibrillation. I can

> predict

> > the onset of an episode of AF when I find myself having a hard time

> staying

> > out of the bathroom. Then, when the episode of AF is past and the

> frequent

> > urination subsides to normal levels I can again do anything I want

> to do

> > without bringing on another episode. My doctors have no explanation

> for this

> > cycle except to tell me the the heart produces an enzyme which

> stimulates the

> > kidneys to produce more urine than usual. Perhaps dehydration

> brings on AF.

> > Maybe there is leeching of essential nutrients (magnesium, calcium,

> > potassium, sodium). I'm taking magnesium/potassium/calcium

> supplements to see

> > if that has any long-term benefits. I'm keeping a journal to record

> patterns

> > which may help show me the relationship between my episodes of AF

> and other

> > factors. So far the only connections between what I do and episodes

> of AF or

> > flutter are strenuous exercise (which I LOVE), excessive alcohol

> consumption

> > (more than 2 glasses of wine a day), strong emotional upset, lack

> of sleep,

> > and frequent urination.

> >

> > Keep in touch.

> >

>

> I am currently on an event monitor. I have captured one afib session

> including startup. This info is for my cardio dr. in preparation

> for an ablation procedure coming up for me in the next month or so.

> You mentioned that you had an ablation. Can you give me some info on

> the procedure:

>

> 1/ how long did it take

> 2/ was it painful

> 3/ would you try another ablation

> 4/ were they able to recreate the afib during the procedure

> 5/ where was it done

>

> -any other info you have would be appreciated.

>

> thanks

>

> kfr

,

The ablation took about 5 hours, but I was unconscious the whole time. I

entered the hospital at 6:00 AM (Mercy General in Sacramento, CA), had the

ablation, came out of the anaesthetic at 2:00 PM, was up walking around by

7:00 PM that same evening, went home the next day at about noon (I drove the

whole way, but wasn't supposed to). The procedure was not painful in any way,

and the locations of the insertion of the catheter were only minimally sore

for a few days. I was in A fib when they put me under, so that wasn't a

problem, but I was told that they would have induced fib with drugs if I

weren't. I would definitely have another procedure if it would improve my

condition. The surgeon was very conservative and only ablated one " center " or

source of the erratic electrical waves. There are others that he could have

zapped, but chose not to this time. I have been better, but by no means am I

cured. I've had 4 episodes in the three weeks I've been out, but I've been

able to bring them under control within a few hours by taking between 80 and

160 mg. of solatol (Betapace), but I am otherwise not on any medication. Even

though I have been having several episodes of AF, I feel better even when in

A fib! Sounds contradictory, but it's true. I suspect that what I'm having

now is atrial flutter, but not having had an EKG when in these episodes I

can't be sure. Just my subjective evaluation.

In the meantime, go ahead and have the procedure by all means. The odds are

about 50-50 that you'll be 90-100% cured.

Les