Re: Input Requested

[Guest guest]

What a terrible experience, and you have every right to be upset.

My husband and I were in marriage counseling on/or about 4 years

into our marriage b\c I had difficulty communicating. After only

two sessions, the therapist asked us if our parents were alcoholics,

then started on this trip about how much we drank. Now mind you, we

were 22 at the time. Not meaning we were drinkers, but we went out

with our friends and enjoyed drinking here and there, but far from

an alcoholic. Then, started in on the denial crap. etc. etc. My

husband and I left everytime fighting, when we were supposed to be

going to learn how to get along. I realize that our therapists are

not there to tell us exactly what we want to hear, but from your

response below--he/she went too far. All of us who have dealt with

BPD have a tendency to be emotional, how could we not be? Years of

hearing we were peices of shit? I am sorry, but it pisses me off

when friends or therapists or anyone throws the emotional, over-

reacting crap at people who have suffered through this disease. We

actually are protecting ourselves from future hurt and pain, so I

think you should go with what your gut feeling is, don't let someone

in a position of power take that away from you, we have had this

done to us all of our life. My therapist said it is good and

natural for me to put up a protective wall, and if others see this

as over-reacting then pooie on them!

{{Big hug}} We all care, and believe you are very intelligent, if we

didn't have your intelligence, insight, and help in this group then

we wouldn't be where we are in our lives of dealing with this

damaging and hurtful disease. Don't let this therapist take this

from you...

Take care, and know we care!

erbussmom

PS-we dumped our therapist (one mentioned above) and found another,

and here we are married 17 years...

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long

to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how

this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and

even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low.

Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I gathered

that he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What

makes you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I may

have problems reading people's emotions, people's body language,

etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at reading

these things. So I stayed right with it and said " What indicators

show you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize

that, as a child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD I

have some difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

to this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last

year, we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these

very expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

did and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this

and he just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I

didn't like his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his

calendar indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This

is not what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask

himabout the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question

and then when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well,

this is why we need to keep working on your past, as it effects your

present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. "

He is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting

much effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded

him what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about

it. I think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning

that he has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure

he's had enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and

that comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know that

therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to

feel other feelings or transference or what?????????? The last

thing is that I read about other people's posts about how they feel

good after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or

comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg - I am new to the group and have only been reading posts for a

few weeks. I can absolutely say that from your posts I have been

impressed at your emotional intelligence, your ability to evaluate a

situation, your unique ability to get people to evaluate their own

underlying feelings and reasoning and your deep compassion for

others.

I have been seeing the same counselor for years. I always leave

there feeling validated about my decisions regarding 'seperation'

from my undiagnosed bpd mom (I am not fully NC). My mom's bpd

tendencies are mild in comparison to the stories I have read from

the group.

I would encourage you to listen to your gut feelings about your

therapist and yourself. While a therapist should challange us to be

the best person we can and encourage growth, ultimately we should

feel their support.

Betsy

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long

to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how

this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and

even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low.

Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I gathered

that he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What

makes you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I may

have problems reading people's emotions, people's body language,

etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at reading

these things. So I stayed right with it and said " What indicators

show you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize

that, as a child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD I

have some difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

to this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last

year, we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these

very expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

did and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this

and he just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I

didn't like his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his

calendar indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This

is not what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask

himabout the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question

and then when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well,

this is why we need to keep working on your past, as it effects your

present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. "

He is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting

much effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded

him what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about

it. I think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning

that he has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure

he's had enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and

that comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know that

therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to

feel other feelings or transference or what?????????? The last

thing is that I read about other people's posts about how they feel

good after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or

comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I'm going to give you my honest opinion. From what you have written

here I would not go back. Call around and find someone else who has

experience with bpd and/or KOs. Whenever I felt bad after therapy it

was not because of something my therapist did, but because I was

dealing with the repercussions of the abuse. I think as KOs we have

great gut instincts and it sounds like yours is really trying to warn

you. I had a T who was very very helpful during the worst of the PTSD.

Towards the end of therapy she was having personal problems (this was

a small town so I knew about it). My gut started going crazy. In

hindsight I think she was starting to project her marital problems on

me and my dh. I won't bore you with all the details, but the

therapeutic relationship ended abruptly when I called to change an

appointment and she claimed we had agreed to end the sessions, " didn't

I remember? " I was sitting at my desk holding the appointment card

which she had written. It took a long time to get over it, and I wish

I had trusted those first little alarm bells and ended things myself.

Ts are humans. And many are just not equipped to deal with bpd issues.

Add to that the fact that many people go into the profession because

they have big stuff to deal with themselves and you find a lot of

people who thought highly qualified on paper, would not be a good fit.

And unfortunately you also have to factor in the money issue. some

people are just more motivated by money. And you have to look at that

angle too. Is the goal to get you healthy and out the door to

independence, or to keep you coming week after week? My other favorite

" care provider " - the psychologist who listened to several incidents

where I was tortured by my mother and asked me if it was possible that

she was just " ignorant " and thought she was performing medical

procedures....... And then she said something derogatory about the

part of the country I came from implying my parents were uneducated.

It was right in my file that I along with both parents and all four

grandparents had at least 4 year degrees and most had much more than

that. That time I listened to my gut as it was clanging the alarm

bells so loud you could probably hear them several blocks over.

Have you tried calling the university there? I did some googling and

the names that popped up all seemed to have a university affiliation.

I wonder if they could recommend someone? I also found this:

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/library/finding.htm

It has great suggestions on how to find someone. Did you know that Dr.

Linehan is in Seattle? I think she is the guru on dbt, so her office

might be able to recommend someone.

If your gut had only gone off one time, and you were in the middle of

some very trying stuff, I might chalk it up to the roller coaster of

emotions you get from PTSD. But your gut has gone off more than once.

You are not newbie to therapy. And this is not your first time dealing

with all of this - you are new to NC but not to all of the affects

caused by a bpd parent. I hope you can find someone you are

comfortable with. I think it is worth it to search for someone. I

lucked out with my psychiatrist. He was a child/adolescent

psychiatrist who also treated some adult incest survivors. He is the

only one on my team ever to mention bpd. He let my personality and my

own strengths and weaknesses guide my journey. He was very open to

trying different things. And he was very open and honest with me. He

told me I was very different from his other patients, and worked with

me to find the best route for me to take. And towards the end he was

very honest about that journey for him. The only time he upset me -

when a nutty nurse in the treatment center fueled my anger one to many

times and I was about to launch a revolt among the inmates. I had a

print out of the state laws of the rights etc. of mental health

patients with the sections the center was violating highlighted as well

as the number to call and file a complaint. Can you tell I was having

a bit of an anger issue??? :^) He gently helped me see that riling up

a bunch of people who were there for far more serious reasons than I

was could backfire for everyone. And he assured me he would address

the issues internally. And I held him to that promise. That was the

only dispute in 2 1/2 years of intensive therapy. Unfortunately he is

somewhere in Georgia or I would refer you to him.

I know this is a hard decision for you. I know when I was faced with

it after over 2 years of therapy I just couldn't pull the trigger, but

I wish I had. And I would hate for you to find out after many more

sessions that your gut was on the money and you had wasted more time

and resources on someone who was less than helpful.

No matter what you decide to do, you will find support here in this

group. What we all want for us all is for us each to advance down our

own path to healing so that with every day, every month, every year, we

become more and more the person we were meant to be and less a

conglomeration of wounds and scars that were heaped on us by our

parents.

Wishing you peace with whatever decision you make, and a year filled

with insight, healing and strength so you can leave the last of the

nada baggage behind and chase your dreams unencumbered.

Fresabird

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long to

> calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how this

> is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the feelings

> that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've gone n/c with

> my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and even told him so.

> He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low. Oh, that didn't sound

> right. " From the look on my face, I gathered that he realized he made

> a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What makes you say that? " And he

> tried to skirt it. He said that I may have problems reading people's

> emotions, people's body language, etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If

> anything, I'm too acute at reading these things. So I stayed right

> with it and said " What indicators show you that I have a lack of

> emotional skill sets? I realize that, as a child of a mother who has

> BPd And a father that had APD I have some difficult times trusting

> people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

> properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed, but

> that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings to this

> moment. I also told him that while I was in school last year, we had

> one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these very expensive

> psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I did and my score on

> teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this and he just laughed.

> He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I didn't like his remark 3

> weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his calendar indefinitely. He

> wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This is not what feel right; it's

> not what I signed up for. When I ask himabout the treatment plan, he

> gets vague and skirts the question and then when something emotionally

> hard comes up, he says, " Well, this is why we need to keep working on

> your past, as it effects your present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I

> listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. " He is

> after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting much

> effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded him

> what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about it. I

> think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning that he has

> some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure he's had enough,

> b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of the BPD world. He's a

> nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and that comment almost first

> thing was anything but nice. I know that therapy is a form of

> manipulation with consent, one-way relationship, built on trust. Was

> he manipulating me to get me to feel other feelings or transference or

> what?????????? The last thing is that I read about other people's

> posts about how they feel good after sessions and I don't. I feel

> worse. Any advice or comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

I have only posted a few times and am pretty new to

the website but wanted to respond to your last

posting. My several attempts at therapy all ended

without me getting a diagnosis as a KO of a BPD mother

or any real help. Sometimes they would get an issue

right here or there, but it never felt " right " , like

you described today. I felt like they were

" manipulating " me with the wrong assessment of me and

my problems. Even with the recent information about

PBD, I think it is difficult to find a good therapist

who really gets PBD, especially the KO part. I have

gotten the best information and guidance from a friend

who had a similar childhood and reading books.....and

feel like the postings here reflect what I experienced

more than any therapist's perception.

My advice is to keep looking for someone really good,

whose advice and approaches will be appropriate to you

and your issues. Even if you have to go thru several

to find the right one. You don't want to waste time,

money and energy with a therapist that is not informed

enough, and could actually do more damage than good.

If you don't feel respected, then don't go back. That

is what I am sensing that you experienced today.

Bearing in mind that sometimes therapy can bring

upexpected things to light, if you don't feel like

thay are getting it, then they probably aren't. I

think you should trust your gut feelings. I found

that because I have had to raise myself in so many

ways and that I have guarded myself against

manipulation, that " therapy " didn't work for me.

Counseling, a two way conversation, open and

informative, was the only thing that helped me. But

not someone trying to " shrink " me. My mind has been

messed with enough!! Learning to let bad feelings

rise to the surface, let them out and have a good cry

were things that I learned to do in private, on my own

time, as they arose, naturally. And it has helped

with some pent up pain, but getting my life back was

more about self expression, knowing my instincts were

right, boundaries, accountability-codependency

(letting go of my fog), and most importantly, letting

myself develop into who I really am, not having to

play a role for her.

Do you think you could talk to him about how you felt

today and come to a better place with him.....as a

last attempt before finding someone new? If not, find

someone else.

Have you read " Get me out of here " by Reiland?

It is a great book, showing an effective therapy

approach to working with a BP, not a KO. However, it

reveals ways that BP and it's effects on KO are

different from other diagnoses.

Sorry so long......but good luck!

--- G wrote:

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has

> taken this long to calm down enough to write

> coherently, and I still am not sure how this is

> going to come out. I had just explained a dream and

> the feelings that I used to have and that are now

> coming back as I've gone n/c with my mom to my

> psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and even told

> him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very

> low. Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look

> on my face, I gathered that he realized he made a

> huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What makes you

> say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that

> I may have problems reading people's emotions,

> people's body language, etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT.

> If anything, I'm too acute at reading these things.

> So I stayed right with it and said " What

> indicators show you that I have a lack of emotional

> skill sets? I realize that, as a child of a mother

> who has BPd And a father that had APD I have some

> difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was

> not mirrored properly, it's only natural that I

> would have deficits. I agreed, but that first

> statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

> to this moment. I also told him that while I was in

> school last year, we had one class that the prof

> encouraged us to take all these very expensive psych

> tests, as they were freee or next to free. I did

> and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I

> told him this and he just laughed. He's missed 3

> appointments out of 8 and I didn't like his remark 3

> weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his calendar

> indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at

> 1:30. This is not what feel right; it's not what I

> signed up for. When I ask himabout the treatment

> plan, he gets vague and skirts the question and then

> when something emotionally hard comes up, he says,

> " Well, this is why we need to keep working on your

> past, as it effects your present dating.... " Yes,

> and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the

> " therapy. " He is after my money. he is helping on

> the way, but isn't putting much effort into it.

> After many sentences he said today, I reminded him

> what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM

> said about it. I think that this irritated him. He

> told me in the beginning that he has some experience

> treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure he's had

> enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a

> part of the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not

> paying for nice. and that comment almost first

> thing was anything but nice. I know that therapy is

> a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

> relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating

> me to get me to feel other feelings or transference

> or what?????????? The last thing is that I read

> about other people's posts about how they feel good

> after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any

> advice or comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I was appauled after reading this. That doctor is unprofessional

and ought to have his head examed. Just because someone is a

theropist doesn't mean they are good at it. i am lucky to have a

wonder theropist and could never image her saying stuff like that to

me. that would send me running. There are other doctors. If that

doctor really thought or felt this, shouldn't he have kept it to

himself? You know control your behavior. Something BPDs do not!!!!

My theropist told me she has known many bpds that are theropists

and doctors. just high functioning ones that are the hardest to

treat. Not saying this guy is however he is not very good at what he

does. Hell, you could be " psyco of the century " but a good theropist

would not treat you that way. RUN!!!!!

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long

to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how

this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and

even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low.

Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I gathered

that he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What

makes you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I may

have problems reading people's emotions, people's body language,

etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at reading

these things. So I stayed right with it and said " What indicators

show you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize

that, as a child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD I

have some difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

to this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last

year, we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these

very expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

did and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this

and he just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I

didn't like his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his

calendar indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This

is not what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask

himabout the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question

and then when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well,

this is why we need to keep working on your past, as it effects your

present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. "

He is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting

much effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded

him what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about

it. I think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning

that he has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure

he's had enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and

that comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know that

therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to

feel other feelings or transference or what?????????? The last

thing is that I read about other people's posts about how they feel

good after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or

comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg, If you leave sessions feeling bad that is not a good sign, you

gut is telling you something and I would have to agree with the

board especially the points made by and Fresabird RUN! He

should have his head examined that was down right cruel and not his

place to say that. It was cold thoughtless judgment. I think it is

time to look for a new therapist. He does not sound like he is

fitting the bill. I think the board has said it all. But you should

not leave feeling that way. You may leave sometimes feeling tired or

a sigh of relief if you covered lots of ground but you should not be

leaving feeling bad. This is your sign things are not going well.

Seattle is a large city you will be able to replace him. Big Hugs

and Blessings. Good luck with finding a replacement if it is in your

heart to do so. Lots of love Lizzy

> >

> > Hey Everyone,

> >

> > I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this

long

> to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure

how

> this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

> feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

> gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable

and

> even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low.

> Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I

gathered

> that he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What

> makes you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I

may

> have problems reading people's emotions, people's body language,

> etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at

reading

> these things. So I stayed right with it and said " What

indicators

> show you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize

> that, as a child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD

I

> have some difficult times trusting people, but it

> > just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

> properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

> but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

> to this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last

> year, we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all

these

> very expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

> did and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him

this

> and he just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I

> didn't like his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his

> calendar indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30.

This

> is not what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask

> himabout the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question

> and then when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well,

> this is why we need to keep working on your past, as it effects

your

> present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> > only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. "

> He is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting

> much effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I

reminded

> him what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about

> it. I think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning

> that he has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure

> he's had enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

> the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and

> that comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know

that

> therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

> relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to

> feel other feelings or transference or what?????????? The last

> thing is that I read about other people's posts about how they

feel

> good after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or

> comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Greg -- trust your gut on this one: he's a dud.

If anything, your senses and emotions are HEIGHTENED by your

experience with your BPD nada.

Not all therapists are well-adjusted, competent practitioners. Case

in point: I worked for a psychiatrist that was NUTS. He kept the

other two girls in the office on drugs so they would do whatever he

asked. I figured out in a few weeks that one of them was living

with him. But he paraded other girlfriends in front of her.

He slept with everything that wasn't chained to a post, and he was a

SICKO that purposely kept patients (even genuinely sick, suicidal

ones!) waiting for over an hour each. He was a morally bankrupt nut

who should not be able to run an ice cream stand, much less try to

help sick people.

I remember calling him at home (he lived near the office) to let him

know his first appointment had just arrived and he said " Sure

thing! " and didn't show up for 90 minutes. This happened EVERY

DAY. This man had major megalomania. So of course, when I quit

after six weeks of this nuthouse, he tried to make my life hell.

Luckily, my husband loves a good fight, and this guy had met his

match.

Sometimes, these people go into the profession because of their own

sick reasons. Don't just accept their credentials as making them

worthy -- see how they are in action, THEN make up your mind.

Keep looking and do not give up. There are good ones out there,

too. Pray that God leads you to the right one.

Love,

Kyla

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long

to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how

this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and

even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low.

Oh, that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I gathered

that he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What

makes you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I may

have problems reading people's emotions, people's body language,

etc. THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at reading

these things. So I stayed right with it and said " What indicators

show you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize

that, as a child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD I

have some difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings

to this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last

year, we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these

very expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

did and my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this

and he just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I

didn't like his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his

calendar indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This

is not what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask

himabout the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question

and then when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well,

this is why we need to keep working on your past, as it effects your

present dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. "

He is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting

much effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded

him what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about

it. I think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning

that he has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure

he's had enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

the BPD world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and

that comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know that

therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way

relationship, built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to

feel other feelings or transference or what?????????? The last

thing is that I read about other people's posts about how they feel

good after sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or

comments are welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg, not everyone believes that therapy is " a form of manipulation

with consent " or a " one-way relationship " !!

I have posted before on Carl 's characteristics of a helping

relationship, but I think they're important and relevant to post them

again, so I'll paste the relevant section of the paper below. It is

snipped from ' classic paper " Significant Aspects of Client-

Centered Therapy " (American Psychologist, 1, 415-422), which is

available at: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca//therapy.htm

Since wrote this, there's been quite a lot of work that

indicates that successful therapists of all schools share many if not

most of these characteristics. (Of course, it's not an easy

distinction between " reflection " , which usually seems to be helpful,

and " interpretation " , which usually does not, but I think most of us

can FEEL the difference, even if we can't necessarily articulate it!)

From what you've posted, it seems to me that what your psychiatrist

is doing is NOT counselling or therapy. And that's not surprising.

Psychiatrists are typically trained in the classic western model

of " diagnose problem, apply treatment, move on " . You'd be amazed how

little training some programs offer their psychiatrists in actual

interpersonal therapy. ly, your guy sounds totally clueless to

me!

Hugs,

--------Quote---------

It may be said that we now know how to initiate a complex and

predictable chain of events in dealing with the maladjusted

individual, a chain of events which is therapeutic, and which

operates effectively in problem situations of the most diverse type.

This predictable chain of events may come about through the use of

language as in counseling, through symbolic language, as in play

therapy, through disguised language as in drama or puppet therapy. It

is effective in dealing with individual situations, and also in small

group situations.

It is possible to state with some exactness the conditions which must

be met in order to initiate and carry through this releasing

therapeutic experience. Below are listed in brief form the conditions

which seem to be necessary, and the therapeutic results which occur.

This experience which releases the growth forces within the

individual will come about in most cases if the following elements

are present.

(1) If the counselor operates on the principle that the individual is

basically responsible for himself, and is willing for the individual

to keep that responsibility.

(2) If the counselor operates on the principle that the client has a

strong drive to become mature, socially adjusted. independent,

productive, and relies on this force, not on his own powers, for

therapeutic change.

(3) If the counselor creates a warm and permissive atmosphere in

which the individual is free to bring out any attitudes and feelings

which he may have, no matter how unconventional, absurd, or

contradictory these attitudes may be. The client is as free to

withhold expression as he is to give expression to his feelings.

(4) If the limits which are set are simple limits set on behavior,

and not limits set on attitudes. (This applies mostly to children.

The child may not be permitted to break a window or leave the room.

but he is free to feel like breaking a window, and the feeling is

fully accepted. The adult client may not be permitted more than an

hour for an interview, but there is full acceptance of his desire to

claim more time.)

(5) If the therapist uses only those procedures and techniques in the

interview which convey his deep understanding of the emotionalized

attitudes expressed and his acceptance of them. This understanding is

perhaps best conveyed by a sensitive reflection and clarification of

the client's attitudes. The counselor's acceptance involves neither

approval nor disapproval.

(6) If the counselor refrains from any expression or action which is

contrary to the preceding principles. This means refraining from

questioning, probing, blame, interpretation, advice, suggestion,

persuasion, reassurance.

If these conditions are met. then it may be said with assurance that

in the great majority of cases the following results will take place.

(1) The client will express deep and motivating attitudes.

(2) The client will explore his own attitudes and reactions more

fully than he has previously done and will come to be aware of

aspects of his attitudes which he has previously denied.

(3) He will arrive at a clearer conscious realization of his

motivating attitudes and will accept himself more completely. This

realization and this acceptance will include attitudes previously

denied. He may or may not verbalize this clearer conscious

understanding of himself and his behavior.

(4) In the light of his clearer perception of himself he will choose,

on his own initiative and on his own [p. 417] responsibility, new

goal which are more satisfying than his maladjusted goals.

(5) He will choose to behave in a different fashion in order to reach

these goals, and this new behavior will be in the direction of

greater psychological growth and maturity. It will also be more

spontaneous and less tense, more in harmony with social needs of

others, will represent a more realistic and more comfortable

adjustment to life. It will be more integrated than his former

behavior. It will be a step forward in the life of the individual.

--------End Quote---------

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has taken this long

to calm down enough to write coherently, and I still am not sure how

this is going to come out. I had just explained a dream and the

feelings that I used to have and that are now coming back as I've

gone n/c with my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable and

even told him so. He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low. Oh,

that didn't sound right. " From the look on my face, I gathered that

he realized he made a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What makes

you say that? " And he tried to skirt it. He said that I may have

problems reading people's emotions, people's body language, etc.

THAT IS ALL BULL SHIT. If anything, I'm too acute at reading these

things. So I stayed right with it and said " What indicators show

you that I have a lack of emotional skill sets? I realize that, as a

child of a mother who has BPd And a father that had APD I have some

difficult times trusting people, but it

> just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was not mirrored

properly, it's only natural that I would have deficits. I agreed,

but that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it that stings to

this moment. I also told him that while I was in school last year,

we had one class that the prof encouraged us to take all these very

expensive psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I did and

my score on teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this and he

just laughed. He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I didn't like

his remark 3 weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his calendar

indefinitely. He wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This is not

what feel right; it's not what I signed up for. When I ask himabout

the treatment plan, he gets vague and skirts the question and then

when something emotionally hard comes up, he says, " Well, this is why

we need to keep working on your past, as it effects your present

dating.... " Yes, and NO. If I listen to

> only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end the " therapy. " He

is after my money. he is helping on the way, but isn't putting much

effort into it. After many sentences he said today, I reminded him

what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM said about it. I

think that this irritated him. He told me in the beginning that he

has some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not sure he's had

enough, b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of the BPD

world. He's a nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and that

comment almost first thing was anything but nice. I know that

therapy is a form of manipulation with consent, one-way relationship,

built on trust. Was he manipulating me to get me to feel other

feelings or transference or what?????????? The last thing is that I

read about other people's posts about how they feel good after

sessions and I don't. I feel worse. Any advice or comments are

welcome........Thanks. Greg.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I agree with almost everything the others have said

here. Run. He’s not only unprofessional and

irresponsible; he’s disturbed and dangerous to your

recovery. Run.

I had an excellent, well-educated and very worldly T

for many years who NEVER mentioned the possibility of

ANY personality disorders, let alone BPD, in my FOO.

Find a good T. You deserve it. They’re out there, a

minority among the incompetents. They’re like

mechanics and rocket scientists. Okay, just like

mechanics. Some really good ones, most not too good

and a lot of bad ones. Thoroughly interview a GOOD

one. You’re paying them. They’re working for YOU.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- fresabird@... wrote:

> Greg,

>

> I'm going to give you my honest opinion. From what

> you have written

> here I would not go back. Call around and find

> someone else who has

> experience with bpd and/or KOs. Whenever I felt bad

> after therapy it

> was not because of something my therapist did, but

> because I was

> dealing with the repercussions of the abuse. I

> think as KOs we have

> great gut instincts and it sounds like yours is

> really trying to warn

> you. I had a T who was very very helpful during the

> worst of the PTSD.

> Towards the end of therapy she was having personal

> problems (this was

> a small town so I knew about it). My gut started

> going crazy. In

> hindsight I think she was starting to project her

> marital problems on

> me and my dh. I won't bore you with all the

> details, but the

> therapeutic relationship ended abruptly when I

> called to change an

> appointment and she claimed we had agreed to end the

> sessions, " didn't

> I remember? " I was sitting at my desk holding the

> appointment card

> which she had written. It took a long time to get

> over it, and I wish

> I had trusted those first little alarm bells and

> ended things myself.

> Ts are humans. And many are just not equipped to

> deal with bpd issues.

> Add to that the fact that many people go into the

> profession because

> they have big stuff to deal with themselves and you

> find a lot of

> people who thought highly qualified on paper, would

> not be a good fit.

> And unfortunately you also have to factor in the

> money issue. some

> people are just more motivated by money. And you

> have to look at that

> angle too. Is the goal to get you healthy and out

> the door to

> independence, or to keep you coming week after week?

> My other favorite

> " care provider " - the psychologist who listened to

> several incidents

> where I was tortured by my mother and asked me if it

> was possible that

> she was just " ignorant " and thought she was

> performing medical

> procedures....... And then she said something

> derogatory about the

> part of the country I came from implying my parents

> were uneducated.

> It was right in my file that I along with both

> parents and all four

> grandparents had at least 4 year degrees and most

> had much more than

> that. That time I listened to my gut as it was

> clanging the alarm

> bells so loud you could probably hear them several

> blocks over.

>

> Have you tried calling the university there? I did

> some googling and

> the names that popped up all seemed to have a

> university affiliation.

> I wonder if they could recommend someone? I also

> found this:

>

>

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/library/finding.htm

>

> It has great suggestions on how to find someone.

> Did you know that Dr.

> Linehan is in Seattle? I think she is the guru on

> dbt, so her office

> might be able to recommend someone.

>

> If your gut had only gone off one time, and you were

> in the middle of

> some very trying stuff, I might chalk it up to the

> roller coaster of

> emotions you get from PTSD. But your gut has gone

> off more than once.

> You are not newbie to therapy. And this is not your

> first time dealing

> with all of this - you are new to NC but not to all

> of the affects

> caused by a bpd parent. I hope you can find someone

> you are

> comfortable with. I think it is worth it to search

> for someone. I

> lucked out with my psychiatrist. He was a

> child/adolescent

> psychiatrist who also treated some adult incest

> survivors. He is the

> only one on my team ever to mention bpd. He let my

> personality and my

> own strengths and weaknesses guide my journey. He

> was very open to

> trying different things. And he was very open and

> honest with me. He

> told me I was very different from his other

> patients, and worked with

> me to find the best route for me to take. And

> towards the end he was

> very honest about that journey for him. The only

> time he upset me -

> when a nutty nurse in the treatment center fueled my

> anger one to many

> times and I was about to launch a revolt among the

> inmates. I had a

> print out of the state laws of the rights etc. of

> mental health

> patients with the sections the center was violating

> highlighted as well

> as the number to call and file a complaint. Can you

> tell I was having

> a bit of an anger issue??? :^) He gently helped me

> see that riling up

> a bunch of people who were there for far more

> serious reasons than I

> was could backfire for everyone. And he assured me

> he would address

> the issues internally. And I held him to that

> promise. That was the

> only dispute in 2 1/2 years of intensive therapy.

> Unfortunately he is

> somewhere in Georgia or I would refer you to him.

>

> I know this is a hard decision for you. I know when

> I was faced with

> it after over 2 years of therapy I just couldn't

> pull the trigger, but

> I wish I had. And I would hate for you to find out

> after many more

> sessions that your gut was on the money and you had

> wasted more time

> and resources on someone who was less than helpful.

>

> No matter what you decide to do, you will find

> support here in this

> group. What we all want for us all is for us each

> to advance down our

> own path to healing so that with every day, every

> month, every year, we

> become more and more the person we were meant to be

> and less a

> conglomeration of wounds and scars that were heaped

> on us by our

> parents.

>

> Wishing you peace with whatever decision you make,

> and a year filled

> with insight, healing and strength so you can leave

> the last of the

> nada baggage behind and chase your dreams

> unencumbered.

>

> Fresabird

>

>

>

>

> > Hey Everyone,

> >

> > I had therapy today, early this afternoon. It has

> taken this long to

> > calm down enough to write coherently, and I still

> am not sure how this

> > is going to come out. I had just explained a dream

> and the feelings

> > that I used to have and that are now coming back

> as I've gone n/c with

> > my mom to my psychiatrist. I was very vulnerable

> and even told him so.

> > He said, " Your emotional IQ must be very low. Oh,

> that didn't sound

> > right. " From the look on my face, I gathered that

> he realized he made

> > a huge Freudian slip. I asked him, " What makes you

> say that? " And he

> > tried to skirt it. He said that I may have

> problems reading people's

> > emotions, people's body language, etc. THAT IS ALL

> BULL SHIT. If

> > anything, I'm too acute at reading these things.

> So I stayed right

> > with it and said " What indicators show you that I

> have a lack of

> > emotional skill sets? I realize that, as a child

> of a mother who has

> > BPd And a father that had APD I have some

> difficult times trusting

> > people, but it

> > just takes me longer. " He told me that b/c I was

> not mirrored

> > properly, it's only natural that I would have

> deficits. I agreed, but

> > that first statement had a harsh, quick tone to it

> that stings to this

> > moment. I also told him that while I was in school

> last year, we had

> > one class that the prof encouraged us to take all

> these very expensive

> > psych tests, as they were freee or next to free. I

> did and my score on

> > teh emotional IQ was very high. I told him this

> and he just laughed.

> > He's missed 3 appointments out of 8 and I didn't

> like his remark 3

> > weeks ago that he had me scheduled in his calendar

> indefinitely. He

> > wasn't laughing: Tuesdays at 1:30. This is not

> what feel right; it's

> > not what I signed up for. When I ask himabout the

> treatment plan, he

> > gets vague and skirts the question and then when

> something emotionally

> > hard comes up, he says, " Well, this is why we need

> to keep working on

> > your past, as it effects your present dating.... "

> Yes, and NO. If I

> > listen to

> > only my gut intuition, it is telling me to end

> the " therapy. " He is

> > after my money. he is helping on the way, but

> isn't putting much

> > effort into it. After many sentences he said

> today, I reminded him

> > what it was like having a BPD mother and what UBM

> said about it. I

> > think that this irritated him. He told me in the

> beginning that he has

> > some experience treating BPD and KO BPD. I'm not

> sure he's had enough,

> > b/c the things he is saying are so not a part of

> the BPD world. He's a

> > nice guy, but i'm not paying for nice. and that

> comment almost first

> > thing was anything but nice. I know that therapy

> is a form of

> > manipulation with consent, one-way relationship,

> built on trust. Was

> > he manipulating me to get me to feel other

> feelings or transference or

> > what?????????? The last thing is that I read about

> other people's

> > posts about how they feel good after sessions and

> I don't. I feel

> > worse. Any advice or comments are

> welcome........Thanks. Greg.

> >

> >

> __________________________________________________

> >