Re: Good news!

[Guest guest]

Im soooooooooo happy for you, congratulations!!!! Dee;)

From: AKCundall@...

I am pregnant! We just confirmed it this morning. I am so happy.

[Guest guest]

That is GREAT! I am so happy for you. It will be a wonderful experience.

take care

.

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

It was never a doctrine in the sense of dogma (i.e., believe it or

else).

Best,

dan

IonaDove@... wrote:

Much needed these days!

The pope has reversed the doctrine of LIMBO!!

This held that all unbaptized babies stayed in a place between

hell n heaven, wh was a step up, apparently fr former doctrine that

they automatically went to hell.

Now, the Pope, bless him, says that Limbo is not a certainty.

Phew! Think of how many millions of babies of all faiths can snuggle

down n relax.

If any of u subscribe to Direct TV, check out ch 422. It is a

fascinating n sometimes very affecting station. At supper last night, I

watched a very eloquent priest discussing the mysteries nimportance of

Russ/Grk Orthodox ikons. I really learned a lot.

It was a welcome change fr all the terrible news on CNN.

love

ao

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Laughing,

IS that what they called it on the news? Limbo?

This is such a ridiculous, funny term ... limbo?

Nice though, I had an even more ridiculous discussion

with a Messianic Jew (this to put it in its gross, simplest

term is a born-again Jew) who swore the babies who died

in the tsunamis were going to hell because they had not

received Jesus.

Between that and the eschatologists (25% of our nation)

I always fear most greatly for our safety and sanity.

In between Paradiso and Inferno was Purgatory or did Dante

skip that part?

Love,

'ut oh bo bo boo boo, oh ob bo

*

> > The pope has reversed the doctrine of LIMBO!!

> >

> > This held that all unbaptized babies stayed in a place between

hell n

> > heaven, wh was a step up, apparently fr former doctrine that they

> > automatically went to hell.

> >

> > Now, the Pope, bless him, says that Limbo is not a certainty.

Phew!

> > Think of how many millions of babies of all faiths can snuggle

down n

> > relax.

> >

> > If any of u subscribe to Direct TV, check out ch 422. It is a

> > fascinating n sometimes very affecting station. At supper last

night,

> > I watched a very eloquent priest discussing the mysteries

nimportance

> > of Russ/Grk Orthodox ikons. I really learned a lot.

> >

> > It was a welcome change fr all the terrible news on CNN.

> >

> > love

> >

> > ao

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > See what's free at AOL.com

> > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>Now, the Pope, bless him, says that Limbo is not a certainty.

Phew! Think of how many millions of babies of all faiths can snuggle

down n relax.

What an odd relief! Pope Ratzinger may with some legitimate authority about

Limbo, even without asserting his infallibility on matters of church doctrine.

I believe Limbo has long been one of the cruelest forms of manipulation of the

millions of " believers " by the holy fathers, a not-so-subtle way of reaching

beyond the grave to instill the fear and guilt so sadly rampant in the RC

religion over the centuries. Tied as it is to the abusive doctrine of " original

sin " (that was taken on by Matt Fox, ala " Original Blessing " before he was

silenced and eventually tossed out of the priesthood by Ratzinger), Limbo

applies not only to the unbaptized babe but also to the unbeliever or

former-believer, as that dreaded territory between belief (aka " certainty " in

doctrine) and dis-belief or its cousin non-belief. The latter two are akin to

mortal sins, thus throw one into the no man's land of Limbo. Terrible place to

contemplate, to be sure. Yet it seems far indeed from the love and

grace evident throughout the writings about Jesus given to us by holy writ.

Ratzinger seems to have spent much psychic time in Limbo already (while

incarnate) and may spend some more (postcarnate), who knows. Yet I believe we

can be certain his uncertainty is well justified, perhaps even hoped-for.

Greg

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[Guest guest]

“Limbo” is the same as Purgatory, the “waiting room” for all souls either not baptized or not yet considered worthy enough for the “pearly gates.” As a child in Catholic church we could kneel at a seductive magical altar of hundred candles. If we dropped in a nickel, or better yet, a quarter or dollar, and prayed, we’d free a soul from that limbo-land of Purgatory.

Always wondered how one could be blissful in heaven knowing many others (including many people I loved!) suffered in a miserable hell for an eternity (a concept which was unfathomable). For me, this negated the whole idea of Heaven as a place of “eternal peace.” A serious contradiction, I’d say.

Miriam

grace evident throughout the writings about Jesus given to us by holy writ. Ratzinger seems to have spent much psychic time in Limbo already (while incarnate) and may spend some more (postcarnate), who knows. Yet I believe we can be certain his uncertainty is well justified, perhaps even hoped-for.

Greg

[Guest guest]

Yet I believe we can be certain his uncertainty is well justified, perhaps even hoped-for.> Score one for uncertainity, perhaps the new 'fish on Friday' which started the unraveling and made room for growth.

We can say whatever about the person of the present pope, past ones or future ones. It is a powerful symbol, archetypal, the Hierophant of the Tarot and I would bet will find its way somehow into the Aquarian age, even though it is Piscean.

Betty

.... Ratzinger seems to have spent much psychic time in Limbo already (while incarnate) and may spend some more (postcarnate), who knows. Yet I believe we can be certain his uncertainty is well justified, perhaps even hoped-for. > > Greg

[Guest guest]

Betty said:

>We can say whatever about the person of the present pope, past ones  or future

ones. It is a powerful symbol, archetypal, the Hierophant  of the Tarot and I

would bet will find its way somehow into the Aquarian age, even though it is

Piscean.

Yes, the pope is a symbol of many things. First and foremost though he is

supposed to personify the highest of morality and vicar of Christian rectitude.

This carp seems headed, retrograde, into Aries rather than into Aquarius so much

of the time, representing just the kind of baggage that needs to be gotten past

in order for the new age to commence, much as his countryman Adolph personified

the Teutonic Gotterdammerung, now vanquished. Let it be remembered that Good

Benedict XVI was once a member of the Hitler Youth, as was required of all

German boys his age in the 40s. Perhaps though this is the archetypal function

(baggage to be overcome) he, in fact, serves. If so, God bless him, for his is a

cruel/harsh fate indeed. But let's get on with the water carrying! It will all

unfold in its own good time.

G

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[Guest guest]

says: >>Nice though, I had an even more ridiculous discussion with a Messianic Jew (this to put it in its gross, simplest term is a born-again Jew) who swore the babies who diedin the tsunamis were going to hell because they had not received Jesus.<< --I'm sure Jesus would be proud! My stock answer is, "That must really tear you up inside, to believe so many people are going to be tortured eternally for not sharing your faith in Jesus... how will you endure heaven knowing so many are suffering in hell?" Responses vary.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Guest guest]

Greg, Why always a person for the opposition? Something in me cringes at this. First it was GWB. Civility requires expressed viewpoint without the putting down of something or someone.

The hierophant was originally someone to bring order out of chaos. As the new belief systems or non belief systems develop in Aquarian age a need for order will arise . For some reason, I intuit this order will be something like, "this mystery is too unknowable to put finite descriptions out and about". So maybe the new hierophant will be one to say, "stop it, do not cloud the infinite with your own projections'.

Betty

>> > Betty said: > > >We can say whatever about the person of the present pope, past ones or future ones. It is a powerful symbol, archetypal, the Hierophant of the Tarot and I would bet will find its way somehow into the Aquarian age, even though it is Piscean. > > Yes, the pope is a symbol of many things. First and foremost though he is supposed to personify the highest of morality and vicar of Christian rectitude. This carp seems headed, retrograde, into Aries rather than into Aquarius so much of the time, representing just the kind of baggage that needs to be gotten past in order for the new age to commence, much as his countryman Adolph personified the Teutonic Gotterdammerung, now vanquished. Let it be remembered that Good Benedict XVI was once a member of the Hitler Youth, as was required of all German boys his age in the 40s. Perhaps though this is the archetypal function (baggage to be overcome) he, in fact, serves. If so, God bless him, for his is a cruel/harsh fate indeed. But let's get on with the water carrying! It will all unfold in its own good time. > > G> > _______________________________________________> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com> The most personalized portal on the Web!>

[Guest guest]

Betty writes:

>Greg, Why always a person for the opposition? 

I have learned to limit my use of the words 'never' and 'always.' They rarely

apply, as in this case. Didn't know I was speaking for the opposition. But

Ratzinger and Bush just happen to be two prominent figures on the world stage

for whom I have persistently low esteem, despite their grandios positions and

roles among us mere mortals. They are both " empty suits " IMHO, ill suited for

their positions and apparent authority. I must have had some authority problems

in my last life But that's my problem to work through.

> Something in me cringes at this. First it was GWB.

Yes; and before him was LJB, for whom I hold a similarly low personal opinion.

But I also have very high opinions of hundreds of others as I have made clear on

many occasions.

> Civility requires expressed viewpoint without the putting down of something or

someone. 

Yes, my wife holds a similar view. Are you an Enneagram 2? I see it as merely

holding up the mirror to their hypocracy, telling the truth (as I understand

it). You are welcome to, and apparently disagree, with my assessments as is

your right. I do not make these comments to rankle you, although it appears I

do. You put a higher value on civility than I do, in the case where high

profile emperors prance about naked, thinking they are well dressed.

> So maybe the new hierophant will be one to say, " stop it, do not cloud the

infinite with your own projections'

Are you signing up for the job? As a wise person once said: " The ocean is

unconcerned with the drop's philosophy " ....mine included. But in the case of

Bush, we all must live with the consequeces of HIS unfortunate (and horrendously

expensive) projections. As a citizen within our democracy, I have the right and

obligation to point that out as I see fit. As you know, I believe it will take

us generations to regain our moral footing among nations again, after he is

happily back home in Crawford. As for the pope, he will live out his term of

office (for life) as the strange custom with the RC church dictates. Until

then, the Christian world will continue to live under his pecurliarly warped

version of Christ's message, infallible as he is. As my dear friend, a 95 year

old nun, once said about JP2 when he repeatedly contributed to the subjugation

of women (good Catholic women such as herself): " Well dear, now one lives

forever.... " She smiled with a sigh and now must endure

yet another papacy which shares similar views toward the " weaker " sex. As I am

not a Catholic, I merely look on bemused from the sidelines of history and

wonder how such people can attain their lofty ranks. Maybe I was burned at the

stake by one of them. I wonder.

Sorry to be having fun Betty. I hope you can see me smiling as I type these

words. But I somehow think my dry wit and desire to speak the truth (at least

as I perceive it) doesn't resonate well with you.

Greg

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Greg,

Am I correct to remember you are a Virgo? If so, my late husband of 54 years was a Virgo and I am reminded of his strong opinions and vehement dislike of that which he was opposed to. He was usually right and was a wonderful life companion. If he were still here, he would be reprimanding me now for being so self expressive here, but I am a Leo and it boils down to "can't we do all this increasing awareness thing without scapegoating another person". Or at least try to. If you are a Virgo, then this helps me understand you better. I will say that Virgos have very good in the real world judgement. Mine is sort of idealistic to the extent of being not very realistic. Does this dynamic resonate with you?

I'm glad you were smiling as you replied to my post, and I think I know now how to better relate to your posts.

Betty

>> > Betty writes: > > >Greg, Why always a person for the opposition? > > I have learned to limit my use of the words 'never' and 'always.' They rarely apply, as in this case. Didn't know I was speaking for the opposition. But Ratzinger and Bush just happen to be two prominent figures on the world stage for whom I have persistently low esteem, despite their grandios positions and roles among us mere mortals. They are both "empty suits" IMHO, ill suited for their positions and apparent authority. I must have had some authority problems in my last life But that's my problem to work through. > > > Something in me cringes at this. First it was GWB. > > Yes; and before him was LJB, for whom I hold a similarly low personal opinion. But I also have very high opinions of hundreds of others as I have made clear on many occasions. > > > Civility requires expressed viewpoint without the putting down of something or someone. > > Yes, my wife holds a similar view. Are you an Enneagram 2? I see it as merely holding up the mirror to their hypocracy, telling the truth (as I understand it). You are welcome to, and apparently disagree, with my assessments as is your right. I do not make these comments to rankle you, although it appears I do. You put a higher value on civility than I do, in the case where high profile emperors prance about naked, thinking they are well dressed. > > > So maybe the new hierophant will be one to say, "stop it, do not cloud the infinite with your own projections' > > Are you signing up for the job? As a wise person once said: "The ocean is unconcerned with the drop's philosophy"....mine included. But in the case of Bush, we all must live with the consequeces of HIS unfortunate (and horrendously expensive) projections. As a citizen within our democracy, I have the right and obligation to point that out as I see fit. As you know, I believe it will take us generations to regain our moral footing among nations again, after he is happily back home in Crawford. As for the pope, he will live out his term of office (for life) as the strange custom with the RC church dictates. Until then, the Christian world will continue to live under his pecurliarly warped version of Christ's message, infallible as he is. As my dear friend, a 95 year old nun, once said about JP2 when he repeatedly contributed to the subjugation of women (good Catholic women such as herself): "Well dear, now one lives forever...." She smiled with a sigh and now must endure > yet another papacy which shares similar views toward the "weaker" sex. As I am not a Catholic, I merely look on bemused from the sidelines of history and wonder how such people can attain their lofty ranks. Maybe I was burned at the stake by one of them. I wonder. > > Sorry to be having fun Betty. I hope you can see me smiling as I type these words. But I somehow think my dry wit and desire to speak the truth (at least as I perceive it) doesn't resonate well with you. > > Greg > >

[Guest guest]

Betty wrote:

>Am I correct to remember you are a Virgo? If so, my late husband of 54 years

was a Virgo and I am reminded of his strong opinions and vehement dislike of

that which he was opposed to.

Yes sun in Virgo.....mea culpa, mea culpa. So was the 54 years a survival

contest for you? We are not easy to live with, or so I'm told.

>If you are a Virgo, then this helps me understand you better.  I will say that

Virgos have very good in the real world judgement. Mine is sort of idealistic to

the extent of being not very realistic.  Does this dynamic resonate with you?

I feel more comfortable with the real. It is, after all, dependable. But

illusive nonetheless. I associate Virgoisty with knit picky perfectionistic

tendencies...wanting to do things right! And since we are so severe with

ourselves, we assume that others can as easily see the same imperfections we do,

I suppose. They often seem so obvious, so real. Yet, there are other -

surprisingly contrary - points of view to be considered.

Greg

Greg

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[Guest guest]

> > >Am I correct to remember you are a Virgo? If so, my late husband of 54 years was a Virgo and I am reminded of his strong opinions and vehement dislike of that which he was opposed to. > > Yes sun in Virgo.....mea culpa, mea culpa. So was the 54 years a survival contest for you? We are not easy to live with, or so I'm told.

The groundedness of the Virgo was always a brick. My two sons remember everything,I think, their father ever said and are always quoting him. He was not the perfectionist Virgo, but the common sense, feet on the ground type. He was a Virgo with a Scorpio moon and I am Leo with Pisces moon, so we were a good match in that opposites attract. My moon was opposite Neptune which required a brick for balance. Fortunately, other aspects of my chart helped here, e.g. grand fire trine. (sun, saturn, uranus, which explains me wanting to balance the old piscean and new aquarian)> > >If you are a Virgo, then this helps me understand you better. I will say that Virgos have very good in the real world judgement. Mine is sort of idealistic to the extent of being not very realistic. Does this dynamic resonate with you? > > I feel more comfortable with the real. It is, after all, dependable. But illusive nonetheless. I associate Virgoisty with knit picky perfectionistic tendencies...wanting to do things right! And since we are so severe with ourselves, we assume that others can as easily see the same imperfections we do, I suppose. They often seem so obvious, so real. Yet, there are other - surprisingly contrary - points of view to be considered.

Yes, it is hard for Virgos to suffer fools gladly. I think I know you now Greg and will understand where you are coming from in your posts.

Betty> Greg > > Greg> > _______________________________________________> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com> The most personalized portal on the Web!>