Re: moral question re low functioning autistics

[Guest guest]

> Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their permission

> and they wouldn't understand it at all, they can't get to the

> internet so that I can show them, and then they certainly wouldn't

> get the implications of being seen by lots of people.

I can't answer the rest of your question, but I'd advise you (and most

people) *never* to assume what someone else " can't understand " , even

if you think you know them pretty well.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

These two are very hard to understand and Jimmy has an extremely short

attention span. If he overheard me talking about it, for instance, if

I didn't grab his hand and lead him to a computer terminal...he might

be able to focus on what I was saying...still I wouldn't necessarily

understand his answer.

I mean, I think as soon as I tried to make him focus on something he'd

be preparing to leave the topic. So yes, you are right he might

understand: " I want to put Jimmy's picture in a place where many many

people will see it " ,

but I don't think he could decide the danger level involved with

that. A very small danger level, but one that is there.... And I

could say, " It would be great! " and he might sort of grunt an

agreement, but really be sort of mirroring my excitement.

Believe me I have seen this with my daughter, the social use of

language that is not very meaningful and is sort of reflexive.

argh. I would like to have all kinds of autistics, but its such a

problem.

Camille

>

> > Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their permission

> > and they wouldn't understand it at all, they can't get to the

> > internet so that I can show them, and then they certainly wouldn't

> > get the implications of being seen by lots of people.

>

> I can't answer the rest of your question, but I'd advise you (and most

> people) *never* to assume what someone else " can't understand " , even

> if you think you know them pretty well.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jimmy's picture is in the files section here, you can see him

his picture is called

ilc.jpeg

This is a less public place so doesn't seem so imperitive to think it

through morally.

Camille

>

> > Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their permission

> > and they wouldn't understand it at all, they can't get to the

> > internet so that I can show them, and then they certainly wouldn't

> > get the implications of being seen by lots of people.

>

> I can't answer the rest of your question, but I'd advise you (and most

> people) *never* to assume what someone else " can't understand " , even

> if you think you know them pretty well.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

> Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their

> permission and they wouldn't understand it at all, they

> can't get to the internet so that I can show them, and

> then they certainly wouldn't get the implications of

> being seen by lots of people.

> Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put

> their pics on a2p2?

I don't want to sound like a wet blanket, but I think you

should have their permission to put their pics on the net.

Would you be filling out their personal information too?

I'm not saying it would put them in any danger, but I do

think participation should be voluntary.

Clay

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

>Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their permission

>and they wouldn't understand it at all, they can't get to the internet

>so that I can show them, and then they certainly wouldn't get the

>implications of being seen by lots of people.

I will be interested to hear what others have to say. My

reaction (pending enlightenment from others) is: No. It

is impossible to guarantee that there will not be any

repercusions from having one's photo posted, therefore

some kind of " informed consent " should apply. It sounds

as if you do not think you could obtain infomred consent

in this case. Therefore, picutures should not be posted

(pending enlightenment).

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

I think I can't do it, it's just that I want to share their faces so

badly...I am on really shaky ground or no ground with the second guy,

even though he asked me to take his picture. But with Jimmy, he is my

friend and I could almost claim clairvoyance and say that he wouldn't

mind....but I can't.

bummer.

even if they had legal guardians who would say, yes, that's not the

same as there giving consent. My daughter doesn't think she's

autistic, so she's not interested.

bummer, too.

Can I hide in a blind and catch my spotted auties on film????

no

I do have Jimmy's mother's permission to do a painting of him.

Clay, I read your post. It was good.

Camille

> >Do I dare put them on the a2p2 page? I do not have their permission

> >and they wouldn't understand it at all, they can't get to the internet

> >so that I can show them, and then they certainly wouldn't get the

> >implications of being seen by lots of people.

>

> I will be interested to hear what others have to say. My

> reaction (pending enlightenment from others) is: No. It

> is impossible to guarantee that there will not be any

> repercusions from having one's photo posted, therefore

> some kind of " informed consent " should apply. It sounds

> as if you do not think you could obtain infomred consent

> in this case. Therefore, picutures should not be posted

> (pending enlightenment).

>

> Jane

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

> Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put their pics on

> a2p2?

Without their informed consent, I say do not post them.

[Guest guest]

If you aqquired the photos with consent, then the images belong to

you, to do as you please, unless conditions applied.

Photos are made to be viewed by many, many people, unless the number

is previously restricted. If you make money with these photos then

your should also offer a reward to the subjects. If the subject

dislikes your promotion of their picture then they should not have

trusted you in the first place. You should remove their picture but

you are not obliged to do so.

You should not display any of their details (including their name)

without prior permission.

International moral conditions should apply, being as set as the

minimum standard but can be overuled by the subjects country of

residence (country should be recognised as moral by neighboring

countries. Religious beliefs of subject and guardian should also be

taken into account as a secondary measure.

If the subject is unable to access the complexities involved, then a

legal guardian should be asked. If a guardian can not be trusted then

he/she should be replaced. If this process has to be repeated for the

3rd time, then the subject should be enclosed in a small box and

carefully placed in the attic.

Anas

It takes great wisdom and insight to author laws. It only takes

ignorance and arrogance to ignore them.

Anas (smile)

>

> > Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put their pics on

> > a2p2?

>

> Without their informed consent, I say do not post them.

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:50 AM 4/23/2004 -0700, Klein wrote:

>Camille wrote:

>

> > Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put their pics on

> > a2p2?

>

>Without their informed consent, I say do not post them.

>

>

I'm with . Even if you get over *your* moral dilemma, *I* host the

webpage and somewhere between the Golden Rule and my own moral code I don't

think I could bring myself to do it. I will accept the informed consent of

their guardian.

-jypsy

________________________________

Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

Autism Spectrum Resources

www.PlanetAutism.com

jypsy@...

[Guest guest]

I'm wondering if you could go back and rewrite that in more

inaccessible legalese with some " part of the first part " in there, so

I can understand it better. :-)

I am not sure who their guardians are, my friend Jimmy has a case

worker type person, but he's kind of a ward of the state. He visits

his mom once a month in her home and spends the night there, so I

think she is his guardian then.

All I can tell you is that the second man asked me to take his

picture, but he could not imagine that I could put them on the web, or

would.

I just let a photographer take a few (dozen) photos of me for the

NYT....oh boy...less worried about looking good more worried about the

" exposure "

Camille- don't wanna be famous

> >

> > > Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put their

pics on

> > > a2p2?

> >

> > Without their informed consent, I say do not post them.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Oh sure,

Take the moral high ground.

:-)

Camille

> >

> > > Anyone want to help me figure out if it is wrong to put their

pics on

> > > a2p2?

> >

> >Without their informed consent, I say do not post them.

> >

> >

>

> I'm with . Even if you get over *your* moral dilemma, *I* host the

> webpage and somewhere between the Golden Rule and my own moral code

I don't

> think I could bring myself to do it. I will accept the informed

consent of

> their guardian.

>

> -jypsy

>

>

> ________________________________

> Ooops....Wrong Planet! Syndrome

> Autism Spectrum Resources

> www.PlanetAutism.com

> jypsy@i...

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

> I just let a photographer take a few (dozen) photos of me for the

> NYT....oh boy...less worried about looking good more worried about

> the " exposure "

>

>

> Camille- don't wanna be famous

Publicity is good, though. NTs don't tend to pay as much attention to

people that are not well-known. " Well-known " equals credibility for

them. You'll be more credible soon!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

That's actually kind of my thinking behind allowing them to photograph

me. It's sort of like, " see I am not just computer generated. "

I am so afraid of having some dumb quote follow me around...eeek.

I still don't know who else might be photographed or interviewed for

this piece.

jypsy says they'll be making a doll out of me and putting me on the

shelf next to Barbie. AS Camille with floppy wrists...

But then jypsy's just mean like that. :-)

Camille

>

> > I just let a photographer take a few (dozen) photos of me for the

> > NYT....oh boy...less worried about looking good more worried about

> > the " exposure "

> >

> >

> > Camille- don't wanna be famous

>

> Publicity is good, though. NTs don't tend to pay as much attention to

> people that are not well-known. " Well-known " equals credibility for

> them. You'll be more credible soon!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh no,

Bobble head Camille.

Scarey thought.

Camille

>

> Seattle has a librarian who was the model for the

> wobble-head librarian doll some company is marketing

> now. I guess after a librarian doll, an autistic

> doll may be a logical next step.

>

> Jane

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

>I am so afraid of having some dumb quote follow me around...eeek.

A reporter once mis-quoted me in a way that made me squirm

(a lot). But don't worry. Life goes on. ;-)

>jypsy says they'll be making a doll out of me and putting me on the

>shelf next to Barbie. AS Camille with floppy wrists...

Seattle has a librarian who was the model for the

wobble-head librarian doll some company is marketing

now. I guess after a librarian doll, an autistic

doll may be a logical next step.

Jane

[Guest guest]

jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] wrote:

> but I don't even know that it's safe to say that much here.

Why is that? You're certainly entitled to say anything you want. What

am I missing?