Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

[Guest guest]

PW.....I'm not a lawyer but I HAVE worked on a legal research team and have

spent more time in a court room than most of the lawyers combined at the

firm i worked for. I wanted to forward this information to you just so that

you have it....the best advice I can give you is definately skirt out the

money to get an attorney....because court rooms can get pretty dicey and the

laws that pertain to grandparents rights are pretty new....because of that

there isn't much " case law " to fall back on and that leaves a lot of " wiggle

room " for judges to interpret the laws based on their own judgement. You

live in a state that is relatively liberal, so the chances that you will get

a judge that will cut things down the middle are pretty good. Typically...

in instances where there isn't much case law judges like to make rulings

that neither party is happy with....just to dispose of it. Court is a

really fickle place and I have spent hours in a court room watching the DA

march virtually the same case in back to back to back...and while the

circumstances were idental, the sentences handed out were not.

Like you, I live in a relatively " liberal " state (land)...I will give

you two bits of information and you can take from it what you want. First

and foremost, my father-in-law is an attorney....my husband has gone NC with

his mother who is the most wicked person I have ever met....nothing has been

filed by them, so it is safe to assume if they COULD file any type of legal

action they would....so that is a good sign. That being said...about 12

years ago my mother-in-law and father-in-law asked if they could take my

children on vacation with them for about 4 days (and there is a longer story

there that i won't go into right now)....when they left they gave us the

hotel information of where they were going to stay. My only stipulation was

that they call us when they arrived so I knew that they were there safely...

as usual...i didn't get a call. 48 hours later, my husband could no longer

harness my anger Iand finally agreed that it was time to try to track them

down. When I called the hotel, I found out that they never arrived....I

called family members and all of them said that they hadn't heard from them,

and his Aunt finally agreed that she was officially worried because it was

so unlike them to not touch base. They left on a Friday and were due home

on Monday....on Wednesday we still hadn't heard from them...this was 2 days

after they were due back...yeah...i was freaking out. We had contacted the

police who really and truly seemed like they couldn't care less..... it

turns out that my mother-in-law just decided that she wanted to go somewhere

else instead (yeah right, and I have bridge in brooklyn to sell ya)...that

place " turned out to be a bed and breakfast that a high school friend

happened to run....and I just happened to send her pictures of my daughters

days before they arrived....so the Wednesday after they were due home, she

sent me a picture she took asking me if these were my girls. I notified the

State Police who ended up showing up and bringing them home. Get this...

our state's attorney wouldn't even file charges against them!! They had, in

clear terms of the law KIDNAPPED our children and " because of the

grandparents laws " they wouldn't file charges...not because they couldn't...

because the laws were new, and they were unchartered waters. (I'm sure my

father-in-law being a lawyer didn't hurt either.)

My point here is to show you that when it comes to grandparents, and the

laws regarding their rights you just can't take any chances...at least in my

state, you really don't know which side of the fence you will end up on and

the one thing you CAN bank on is that lady justice usually isn't as blind as

she was created to be.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

PW,

I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for grandparent's

rights in your state:

_http://www.jud.ct

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

parent.htm_

(http://www.jud.ct

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm)

From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights laws are

basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should say) in

the

case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and therefore

they

never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact, they

usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue, I'd talk to

a local lawyer to get all of your options.

Kristi

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free

email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

It varies state to state, but because my husband and I have the same fear, we

have researched this, and sometimes courts do grant visitation to grandparents

even when it's their own child that broke off contact. Some of the stories I've

read about this are downright scary - such as one court granting unsupervised

visitation to a grandmother who repeatedly gave the grandchild things he was

allergic to because she didn't believe the mother (her daughter-in-law) about

this. They weren't even NC - the grandmother just thought she should be able to

see her grandson more and without his parents.

I am wondering what I can do, because my mother is not dxed as BPD; it's my

therapist's opinion that she is, and my mom came to several sessions with me.

Because she was not technically a patient, there aren't even records on her,

except the mention that she attended sessions, in my own file. How can I prove

that there is anything not quite right with her? If I stood up there and said,

" My therapist says she has borderline personality disorder, " I think I would be

the one who looks a little nutty. Hmmm...

Just a note - we have LC, but it's not all that limited. The deal is, we see

them every Saturday, but they do not take the children without one or both of us

(my husband and myself). The kids used to spend the night and go on outings with

my parents, but it's recently become clear to me that she doesn't have the

ability to not involve the children (3 and 5) in her " stuff. " I used to think it

was all just between her and me. I realize now that my head was in the sand and

there's a much bigger picture here.

The stuff with the kids started with something that, taken as an isolated

incident, would seem silly to most people. My mother has a tendency to interfere

when it's time to leave her house. I tell the kids, " It's time to get ready to

go, " and she gets out another activity, offers them ice cream, etc. I usually

grumbled under my breath but went along with it, not wanting to seem like the

" bad guy, " and the kids would get to bed very late! So one day, on the phone, I

nicely asked my mom if she could please not do this. This was before I realized

that such discussions were pointless. Needless to say, the conversation did not

go well, and I was accused of all sorts of ridiculous things. My brother was in

town that week, and I saw a lot of her, and things were strained to say the

least. On the last day of my brother's visit, it was time for me to leave with

the kids because I had an appointment to get to, and the whole thing started

again. When I very quietly and calmly said

that, " No, we really have to leave right now or I'll be late, " she yelled,

" FINE! JUST GO! " My three-year-old asked as we were getting into my van, " Why

did you yell at my mommy? " And before I could intervene with something

reassuring and tell her that Mommy and Grandma had a disagreement but everything

was ok, my mother said, " Your Mommy yelled at me first! "

NOW I KNOW in the whole spectrum of BPD behaviors this was a mild one. But

what happened was that it triggered the security system in my head. Sirens were

going off, gates were slamming down - that's the only way I can describe it. She

was now trying to twist my kids' reality, and I just wasn't going to let that

happen. I told her she was done, drove off, and she has been on LC ever since. I

now know that she will do this to the kids, because she can't help it. She

doesn't know she's even doing it - the re-writing history thing. And then she

says that my brother agrees with her and heard me yelling at her, and he says

that this is untrue. Recently when I retold this story with a therapist, she

claimed that this is not what she said, and " Even if I did, what's the problem

with it? She just can't get it through her head that it's not ok to get the kids

involved with adult issues. She also believes and has told friends of mine that

I have bipolar disorder, which I do not - I

see a therapist and have occasionally talked to a psychiatrist about medication

and med changes, and they completely disagree with this. Since she is willing to

involve kids in adult disputes and believes me to have a serious mental illness

(I have dealt with some depression and anxiety, but not bipolar disorder), I

firmly believe she is willing to tell my children crazy stuff about me.

Therefore, I need to monitor her interaction with them.

Even though she sees them every week, she's dropped some hints that she's

researching her " rights, " and wouldn't hesitate to take us to court if we

limited contact further.

This is killing me, because I really don't want to see her weekly right now,

but I feel it's a sacrifice I need to make because if she takes us to court it

will be very damaging to me, my husband, and most of all, my children. They love

their grandparents very much, and I am hoping I can wait until they are older to

explain Grandma's " problem. "

WHEW! Sorry for hijacking this thread! It's all tangentially related...

Tara

kchara@... wrote:

PW,

I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for grandparent's

rights in your state:

_http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

parent.htm_

(http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandpa\

rent.htm)

From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights laws are

basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should say) in the

case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and therefore they

never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact, they

usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue, I'd talk to

a local lawyer to get all of your options.

Kristi

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free

email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

I would be so freaking beside myself livid if this happened to me and

my children. What a wus of a state attorney. Civil court? hmmm- hit a

bp in their wallet where it hurts the most:)

I thought the Supreme Court did rule on this issue though of

grandparent's rights w/it being Unconstitutional unless the child is

in jeopardy? Don't the lower courts have to abide by the Supreme

Court's rulings? ugh- sure there are plenty of loopholes a bp could

get a lawyer to jump through. I sooo wish they'd really classify this

mental illness better just for the sake of how much they seem to tax

the courts alone!

K

>

> PW.....I'm not a lawyer but I HAVE worked on a legal research team

and have

> spent more time in a court room than most of the lawyers combined

at the

> firm i worked for. I wanted to forward this information to you

just so that

> you have it....the best advice I can give you is definately skirt

out the

> money to get an attorney....because court rooms can get pretty

dicey and the

> laws that pertain to grandparents rights are pretty new....because

of that

> there isn't much " case law " to fall back on and that leaves a lot

of " wiggle

> room " for judges to interpret the laws based on their own

judgement. You

> live in a state that is relatively liberal, so the chances that you

will get

> a judge that will cut things down the middle are pretty good.

Typically...

> in instances where there isn't much case law judges like to make

rulings

> that neither party is happy with....just to dispose of it. Court

is a

> really fickle place and I have spent hours in a court room watching

the DA

> march virtually the same case in back to back to back...and while

the

> circumstances were idental, the sentences handed out were not.

>

>

> Like you, I live in a relatively " liberal " state (land)...I

will give

> you two bits of information and you can take from it what you

want. First

> and foremost, my father-in-law is an attorney....my husband has

gone NC with

> his mother who is the most wicked person I have ever met....nothing

has been

> filed by them, so it is safe to assume if they COULD file any type

of legal

> action they would....so that is a good sign. That being

said...about 12

> years ago my mother-in-law and father-in-law asked if they could

take my

> children on vacation with them for about 4 days (and there is a

longer story

> there that i won't go into right now)....when they left they gave

us the

> hotel information of where they were going to stay. My only

stipulation was

> that they call us when they arrived so I knew that they were there

safely...

> as usual...i didn't get a call. 48 hours later, my husband could

no longer

> harness my anger Iand finally agreed that it was time to try to

track them

> down. When I called the hotel, I found out that they never

arrived....I

> called family members and all of them said that they hadn't heard

from them,

> and his Aunt finally agreed that she was officially worried because

it was

> so unlike them to not touch base. They left on a Friday and were

due home

> on Monday....on Wednesday we still hadn't heard from them...this

was 2 days

> after they were due back...yeah...i was freaking out. We had

contacted the

> police who really and truly seemed like they couldn't care

less..... it

> turns out that my mother-in-law just decided that she wanted to go

somewhere

> else instead (yeah right, and I have bridge in brooklyn to sell

ya)...that

> place " turned out to be a bed and breakfast that a high school

friend

> happened to run....and I just happened to send her pictures of my

daughters

> days before they arrived....so the Wednesday after they were due

home, she

> sent me a picture she took asking me if these were my girls. I

notified the

> State Police who ended up showing up and bringing them home. Get

this...

> our state's attorney wouldn't even file charges against them!!

They had, in

> clear terms of the law KIDNAPPED our children and " because of the

> grandparents laws " they wouldn't file charges...not because they

couldn't...

> because the laws were new, and they were unchartered waters. (I'm

sure my

> father-in-law being a lawyer didn't hurt either.)

>

> My point here is to show you that when it comes to grandparents,

and the

> laws regarding their rights you just can't take any chances...at

least in my

> state, you really don't know which side of the fence you will end

up on and

> the one thing you CAN bank on is that lady justice usually isn't as

blind as

> she was created to be.

>

>

> Kisses and Nibbles,

> Bunny

>

>

> -- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

>

> PW,

>

> I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

grandparent's

> rights in your state:

>

> _http://www.jud.ct

> gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

> parent.htm_

> (http://www.jud.ct

>

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm)

>

> From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights

laws are

> basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should

say) in

> the

> case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and

therefore

> they

> never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact,

they

> usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue,

I'd talk to

>

> a local lawyer to get all of your options.

>

> Kristi

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This message is for Bunny,

If your husband has gone to NC, he can get a divorce by lying through his

teeth. My X went there and lied about my last known residence, ran a

publication in a newspaper, lied about his responsibilities in WI, and on and

on, and when it came down to the nity-gritty, he was granted an " uncontested

divorce. " My attorney in WI was completely ignored with the information he sent

to NC, proof of my X's residency, employment, home ownership, all of it.

Be Careful!!

Janie

Kerrie wrote:

I would be so freaking beside myself livid if this happened to me and

my children. What a wus of a state attorney. Civil court? hmmm- hit a

bp in their wallet where it hurts the most:)

I thought the Supreme Court did rule on this issue though of

grandparent's rights w/it being Unconstitutional unless the child is

in jeopardy? Don't the lower courts have to abide by the Supreme

Court's rulings? ugh- sure there are plenty of loopholes a bp could

get a lawyer to jump through. I sooo wish they'd really classify this

mental illness better just for the sake of how much they seem to tax

the courts alone!

K

>

> PW.....I'm not a lawyer but I HAVE worked on a legal research team

and have

> spent more time in a court room than most of the lawyers combined

at the

> firm i worked for. I wanted to forward this information to you

just so that

> you have it....the best advice I can give you is definately skirt

out the

> money to get an attorney....because court rooms can get pretty

dicey and the

> laws that pertain to grandparents rights are pretty new....because

of that

> there isn't much " case law " to fall back on and that leaves a lot

of " wiggle

> room " for judges to interpret the laws based on their own

judgement. You

> live in a state that is relatively liberal, so the chances that you

will get

> a judge that will cut things down the middle are pretty good.

Typically...

> in instances where there isn't much case law judges like to make

rulings

> that neither party is happy with....just to dispose of it. Court

is a

> really fickle place and I have spent hours in a court room watching

the DA

> march virtually the same case in back to back to back...and while

the

> circumstances were idental, the sentences handed out were not.

>

>

> Like you, I live in a relatively " liberal " state (land)...I

will give

> you two bits of information and you can take from it what you

want. First

> and foremost, my father-in-law is an attorney....my husband has

gone NC with

> his mother who is the most wicked person I have ever met....nothing

has been

> filed by them, so it is safe to assume if they COULD file any type

of legal

> action they would....so that is a good sign. That being

said...about 12

> years ago my mother-in-law and father-in-law asked if they could

take my

> children on vacation with them for about 4 days (and there is a

longer story

> there that i won't go into right now)....when they left they gave

us the

> hotel information of where they were going to stay. My only

stipulation was

> that they call us when they arrived so I knew that they were there

safely...

> as usual...i didn't get a call. 48 hours later, my husband could

no longer

> harness my anger Iand finally agreed that it was time to try to

track them

> down. When I called the hotel, I found out that they never

arrived....I

> called family members and all of them said that they hadn't heard

from them,

> and his Aunt finally agreed that she was officially worried because

it was

> so unlike them to not touch base. They left on a Friday and were

due home

> on Monday....on Wednesday we still hadn't heard from them...this

was 2 days

> after they were due back...yeah...i was freaking out. We had

contacted the

> police who really and truly seemed like they couldn't care

less..... it

> turns out that my mother-in-law just decided that she wanted to go

somewhere

> else instead (yeah right, and I have bridge in brooklyn to sell

ya)...that

> place " turned out to be a bed and breakfast that a high school

friend

> happened to run....and I just happened to send her pictures of my

daughters

> days before they arrived....so the Wednesday after they were due

home, she

> sent me a picture she took asking me if these were my girls. I

notified the

> State Police who ended up showing up and bringing them home. Get

this...

> our state's attorney wouldn't even file charges against them!!

They had, in

> clear terms of the law KIDNAPPED our children and " because of the

> grandparents laws " they wouldn't file charges...not because they

couldn't...

> because the laws were new, and they were unchartered waters. (I'm

sure my

> father-in-law being a lawyer didn't hurt either.)

>

> My point here is to show you that when it comes to grandparents,

and the

> laws regarding their rights you just can't take any chances...at

least in my

> state, you really don't know which side of the fence you will end

up on and

> the one thing you CAN bank on is that lady justice usually isn't as

blind as

> she was created to be.

>

>

> Kisses and Nibbles,

> Bunny

>

>

> -- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

>

> PW,

>

> I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

grandparent's

> rights in your state:

>

> _http://www.jud.ct

> gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

> parent.htm_

> (http://www.jud.ct

>

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm)

>

> From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights

laws are

> basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should

say) in

> the

> case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and

therefore

> they

> never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact,

they

> usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue,

I'd talk to

>

> a local lawyer to get all of your options.

>

> Kristi

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why don't you see a lawyer about this. I think it would ease your

mind to find out exactly where your nada may stand on these issues.

A lawyer could advise you of how to act/react now and in the future,

should she decide to take any action. Often, we fear more because

we don't know what really could happen. And if there is something

to be worried about, then at least you will have the facts to deal

with.

Take care,

Sylvia

> PW,

>

> I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

grandparent's

> rights in your state:

>

>

_http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandpare

nts/grand

> parent.htm_

>

(http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandpare

nts/grandparent.htm)

>

> From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights

laws are

> basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should

say) in the

> case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and

therefore they

> never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts

contact, they

> usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue,

I'd talk to

> a local lawyer to get all of your options.

>

> Kristi

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janie!

TY sweetie for the advice...wow...i'm so sorry you went through that..

unreal what a man is capable of. This really hit close to home....my aunt

is going through something very similar to what you went through....she and

her now soon to be ex-husband lived here in land, but had a place in

Florida they would visit a couple times per year. They were slowly

beginning to fix it up with the intent to either sell it or move there in

about 5 years. Both of them were really active in church, but when she

exposed him for the " less than saint' that he wanted everyone to believe he

took off. He lied his butt of about the living arrangements and now since

she is fighting him here and saying that land was their primary

residance, and he is saying Florida was primary now everything is locked up

in the court systems in both states until they can work it out. At least

she wasn't blindsided though...that must have been so hard for you...i'm so

sorry.

Just to clarify....my hubby didn't go to NC(North Carolina)...he has gone

NC(no contact) with his mom. I re-read what I posted, and I should have

clarified that....sorry sweetie. Both my husband and I have mother's with

the same personality....my mother is BPD....his mom is borderline, BPD (I

was amazed to learn that borderline BPD existed). My mother is more of a

waif, while his mom is more of a queen, but I think the combination of the

distance we have put between us and the fact that she is younger with a bit

more resources his mother is more vindictive and vicious. (This sounds

horrible to admit....but I think she is smarter too.) My mother would never

have the nerve to disappear with my kids...as a matter of fact, she wasn't

interested in spending any type of alone time with my kids. She says she

likes children, but honestly....I don't think she does. She likes OTHER'S

peoples kids...she like to admire them from afar. She is constantly

obsessing over my cousin's little girl who is almost 3....she is constantly

bugging him about bringing her here to land because we never get to

spend time with her.....but yet when he does, she will make over her but won

t spend any time at all with her. Even if my niece crawls up in her lap she

will make and excuse to hand her right off to someone else. (She wouldn't

even accept an imaginary tea cup that my niece tried to hand her...she said.

.. " oh no...jojo can't drink that...go give that to your daddy " ) Yet when

they leave she will complain to everyone about how exhausted she is from

being with a busy 2 year old. My mother-in-law is just the opposite...yet

when my husband was a child, she and my husband's late father divorced and

she was always either at work or bar-hopping. I think her obsessive need to

have children with her fulfills the neglect she knows she put upon the only

child she had...plus when people see her with children, she is convinced

that people think that those are HER kids...thus she appears younger. I

remember the last neighborhood event that my kids attended, someone who

assumed that they were her GRAND-kids ticked her off royally....and what do

you know....we didn't hear from her for almost 4 months. That started the

cycle of her only calling us when she wanted something.

Anyway....I just wanted to clarify that....and thank you for your post...i

really appreciate your support and help

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

>

> PW,

>

> I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

grandparent's

> rights in your state:

>

> _http://www.jud.ct

> gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

> parent.htm_

> (http://www.jud.ct

>

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm)

>

> From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights

laws are

> basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should

say) in

> the

> case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and

therefore

> they

> never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact,

they

> usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue,

I'd talk to

>

> a local lawyer to get all of your options.

>

> Kristi

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bunny,

Thank you so much for responding and clarify. My mother is a queen too,

and can be very vicious. She also at 89 can still be physically

abusive. Right now she is being nice, never know how long it will last

though. She is actually allowing my sister and I to share in taking her

shopping and for appts. She usually has to be on the outs with one of

us.

I have a 41 year old daughter, who has made some very bad choices in

life. When she was a baby my mother decided that we couldn't take her

overseas with us, that she and my father would take care of her for 2

1/2 years while we were in Europe. Well when we came back we were

greeted with legal papers to take her away from us. Rather than fight

her we signed the papers, and my parents raised her. My daughters life

is a mess, she has ruined her oldest sons life by abandonment, and her

14 year old is living with my nephew. My mother no matter what my

daughter does bails her out, she has given her something like $20-25,000

in the last 4 years. It hasn't helped her, just enabled her to continue

with the wrong lifestyle. My mother is total denial, she sits and cries

because she misses my daughter, and yet she handed out almost $1400 this

last go around to keep her out of prison, and it didn't work. My

daughter is either a pathological or compulsive liar about her lifestyle

and my mother believes every lie she tells.

Now, my sister and I are expected to play my mother's games as far as my

daughter is c0ncerned and run money to jail, run my mother to the bank

to get money orders, run her to the post office to mail the money, and

whatever my mother thinks we should do. My mother is jealous of my son,

my sister's husband and their children, grandchildren, their friends,

our jobs, church affiliations, you name it. She wants our attention

24/7, she doesn't think we should have lives of our own at all. When

our father was still alive it wasn't as bad. I don't know how my father

put up with it for over 62 years.

Well I guess I had better close this before I write a book. Thanks

again.

Janie

> >

> > PW.....I'm not a lawyer but I HAVE worked on a legal research team

> and have

> > spent more time in a court room than most of the lawyers combined

> at the

> > firm i worked for. I wanted to forward this information to you

> just so that

> > you have it....the best advice I can give you is definately skirt

> out the

> > money to get an attorney....because court rooms can get pretty

> dicey and the

> > laws that pertain to grandparents rights are pretty new....because

> of that

> > there isn't much " case law " to fall back on and that leaves a lot

> of " wiggle

> > room " for judges to interpret the laws based on their own

> judgement. You

> > live in a state that is relatively liberal, so the chances that you

> will get

> > a judge that will cut things down the middle are pretty good.

> Typically...

> > in instances where there isn't much case law judges like to make

> rulings

> > that neither party is happy with....just to dispose of it. Court

> is a

> > really fickle place and I have spent hours in a court room watching

> the DA

> > march virtually the same case in back to back to back...and while

> the

> > circumstances were idental, the sentences handed out were not.

> >

> >

> > Like you, I live in a relatively " liberal " state (land)...I

> will give

> > you two bits of information and you can take from it what you

> want. First

> > and foremost, my father-in-law is an attorney....my husband has

> gone NC with

> > his mother who is the most wicked person I have ever met....nothing

> has been

> > filed by them, so it is safe to assume if they COULD file any type

> of legal

> > action they would....so that is a good sign. That being

> said...about 12

> > years ago my mother-in-law and father-in-law asked if they could

> take my

> > children on vacation with them for about 4 days (and there is a

> longer story

> > there that i won't go into right now)....when they left they gave

> us the

> > hotel information of where they were going to stay. My only

> stipulation was

> > that they call us when they arrived so I knew that they were there

> safely...

> > as usual...i didn't get a call. 48 hours later, my husband could

> no longer

> > harness my anger Iand finally agreed that it was time to try to

> track them

> > down. When I called the hotel, I found out that they never

> arrived....I

> > called family members and all of them said that they hadn't heard

> from them,

> > and his Aunt finally agreed that she was officially worried because

> it was

> > so unlike them to not touch base. They left on a Friday and were

> due home

> > on Monday....on Wednesday we still hadn't heard from them...this

> was 2 days

> > after they were due back...yeah...i was freaking out. We had

> contacted the

> > police who really and truly seemed like they couldn't care

> less..... it

> > turns out that my mother-in-law just decided that she wanted to go

> somewhere

> > else instead (yeah right, and I have bridge in brooklyn to sell

> ya)...that

> > place " turned out to be a bed and breakfast that a high school

> friend

> > happened to run....and I just happened to send her pictures of my

> daughters

> > days before they arrived....so the Wednesday after they were due

> home, she

> > sent me a picture she took asking me if these were my girls. I

> notified the

> > State Police who ended up showing up and bringing them home. Get

> this...

> > our state's attorney wouldn't even file charges against them!!

> They had, in

> > clear terms of the law KIDNAPPED our children and " because of the

> > grandparents laws " they wouldn't file charges...not because they

> couldn't...

> > because the laws were new, and they were unchartered waters. (I'm

> sure my

> > father-in-law being a lawyer didn't hurt either.)

> >

> > My point here is to show you that when it comes to grandparents,

> and the

> > laws regarding their rights you just can't take any chances...at

> least in my

> > state, you really don't know which side of the fence you will end

> up on and

> > the one thing you CAN bank on is that lady justice usually isn't as

> blind as

> > she was created to be.

> >

> >

> > Kisses and Nibbles,

> > Bunny

> >

> >

> > -- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

> >

> > PW,

> >

> > I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

> grandparent's

> > rights in your state:

> >

> > _http://www.jud.ct

> > gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

> > parent.htm_

> > (http://www.jud.ct

> >

> gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm)

>

> >

> > From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's rights

> laws are

> > basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I should

> say) in

> > the

> > case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent, and

> therefore

> > they

> > never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts contact,

> they

> > usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to sue,

> I'd talk to

> >

> > a local lawyer to get all of your options.

> >

> > Kristi

> > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

> offers free

> > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What an ordeal you've been through. Beginning with the time your

mother was able to railroad you into leaving your daughter for so

long. She was being completely selfish -- no matter where you were

moving, your daughter would have been with her mother. She would

have learned about life in another country, etc. She was just

thinking of herself and how much she would miss her granddaughter,

disregarding the welfare of the relationship between mother (you)

and daughter.

Shame on your mother for taking your daughter from you. My

grandfather's mother let her mother in law talk her into the same

thing. He felt abandoned, and it affected him throughout his life.

My prayer for you and your daughter will be for healing, and that

she gets her life back together.

At 89, she can't keep a stranglehold on your daughter for too much

longer, hopefully. Perhaps she feels guilty for setting this whole

thing in motion all those years ago, and that's why she keeps

enabling your daughter's errant behavior.

My heart and prayers go out to you.

{hugs}

Kyla

> > >

> > > PW.....I'm not a lawyer but I HAVE worked on a legal research

team

> > and have

> > > spent more time in a court room than most of the lawyers

combined

> > at the

> > > firm i worked for. I wanted to forward this information to you

> > just so that

> > > you have it....the best advice I can give you is definately

skirt

> > out the

> > > money to get an attorney....because court rooms can get pretty

> > dicey and the

> > > laws that pertain to grandparents rights are pretty

new....because

> > of that

> > > there isn't much " case law " to fall back on and that leaves a

lot

> > of " wiggle

> > > room " for judges to interpret the laws based on their own

> > judgement. You

> > > live in a state that is relatively liberal, so the chances

that you

> > will get

> > > a judge that will cut things down the middle are pretty good.

> > Typically...

> > > in instances where there isn't much case law judges like to

make

> > rulings

> > > that neither party is happy with....just to dispose of it.

Court

> > is a

> > > really fickle place and I have spent hours in a court room

watching

> > the DA

> > > march virtually the same case in back to back to back...and

while

> > the

> > > circumstances were idental, the sentences handed out were not.

> > >

> > >

> > > Like you, I live in a relatively " liberal " state (land)...I

> > will give

> > > you two bits of information and you can take from it what you

> > want. First

> > > and foremost, my father-in-law is an attorney....my husband has

> > gone NC with

> > > his mother who is the most wicked person I have ever

met....nothing

> > has been

> > > filed by them, so it is safe to assume if they COULD file any

type

> > of legal

> > > action they would....so that is a good sign. That being

> > said...about 12

> > > years ago my mother-in-law and father-in-law asked if they

could

> > take my

> > > children on vacation with them for about 4 days (and there is a

> > longer story

> > > there that i won't go into right now)....when they left they

gave

> > us the

> > > hotel information of where they were going to stay. My only

> > stipulation was

> > > that they call us when they arrived so I knew that they were

there

> > safely...

> > > as usual...i didn't get a call. 48 hours later, my husband

could

> > no longer

> > > harness my anger Iand finally agreed that it was time to try to

> > track them

> > > down. When I called the hotel, I found out that they never

> > arrived....I

> > > called family members and all of them said that they hadn't

heard

> > from them,

> > > and his Aunt finally agreed that she was officially worried

because

> > it was

> > > so unlike them to not touch base. They left on a Friday and

were

> > due home

> > > on Monday....on Wednesday we still hadn't heard from

them...this

> > was 2 days

> > > after they were due back...yeah...i was freaking out. We had

> > contacted the

> > > police who really and truly seemed like they couldn't care

> > less..... it

> > > turns out that my mother-in-law just decided that she wanted

to go

> > somewhere

> > > else instead (yeah right, and I have bridge in brooklyn to sell

> > ya)...that

> > > place " turned out to be a bed and breakfast that a high school

> > friend

> > > happened to run....and I just happened to send her pictures of

my

> > daughters

> > > days before they arrived....so the Wednesday after they were

due

> > home, she

> > > sent me a picture she took asking me if these were my girls. I

> > notified the

> > > State Police who ended up showing up and bringing them home.

Get

> > this...

> > > our state's attorney wouldn't even file charges against them!!

> > They had, in

> > > clear terms of the law KIDNAPPED our children and " because of

the

> > > grandparents laws " they wouldn't file charges...not because

they

> > couldn't...

> > > because the laws were new, and they were unchartered waters.

(I'm

> > sure my

> > > father-in-law being a lawyer didn't hurt either.)

> > >

> > > My point here is to show you that when it comes to

grandparents,

> > and the

> > > laws regarding their rights you just can't take any

chances...at

> > least in my

> > > state, you really don't know which side of the fence you will

end

> > up on and

> > > the one thing you CAN bank on is that lady justice usually

isn't as

> > blind as

> > > she was created to be.

> > >

> > >

> > > Kisses and Nibbles,

> > > Bunny

> > >

> > >

> > > -- Re: ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE??

> > >

> > > PW,

> > >

> > > I'm not a lawyer, but here's a link to what I could find for

> > grandparent's

> > > rights in your state:

> > >

> > > _http://www.jud.ct

> > > gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grand

> > > parent.htm_

> > > (http://www.jud.ct

> > >

> >

gov/lawlib/Notebooks/Pathfinders/RightsofGrandparents/grandparent.htm

)

> >

> > >

> > > From what I understand, in most states, the grandparent's

rights

> > laws are

> > > basically to protect the grandparents (FIT grandparents, I

should

> > say) in

> > > the

> > > case of their child dying or divorcing the custodial parent,

and

> > therefore

> > > they

> > > never see the children. Make sense? So if THEIR child cuts

contact,

> > they

> > > usually have no case. Still, if you think she might want to

sue,

> > I'd talk to

> > >

> > > a local lawyer to get all of your options.

> > >

> > > Kristi

> > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

> > offers free

> > > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> > > http://www.aol.com.

> > >

> > >