Re: Friends Who Don't Believe You

[Guest guest]

Yes, MJL, unfortunately that's one of those tough lessons I'm

learning as well. Not everyone, even close friends, understands

everything to the depth that we do. And vice versa....

I came across a saying awhile back that I think applies

here: " Maturity is the acceptance of the fact that not everyone

will completely understand. "

I have encountered blank stares from longtime close friends who I

thought would " understand " -- but every individual has to walk alone

sometimes. I think it's by Divine design, myself -- that's when I

know God understands. There's a verse in the Bible where He assures

us he sees to the very depths of our hearts and minds. That's a

comfort to me.

I liken it to when you used to take someone to the airport -- and

you can walk with them and keep them company for a time. Then comes

the part where you're held back and they must walk to the gate by

themselves. Every life has those aspects and issues where we just

have to do it alone, or look elsewhere (like here!) for support and

comfort.

Doesn't means our friends are any less friends -- just means that no

two people are ever exactly alike as they journey through life.

-Kyla

>

> I would like to know if anyone else encounters this. Have you

ever

> tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior and

> their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move on,

> etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been that

> bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And that

> other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things

happen

> to people during their life that have just as big an impact on

them

> as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

>

> I'm just at a loss for words when that happens. It's like they've

> completely invalidated your perceptions. And the worst part is

when

> it comes from someone you've trusted with details about your past

> (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up and share those

> details).

>

> My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has on us is like the

> Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both most of our adult

lives

> to even try to break loose from the hold she's had on us. So are

my

> friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured

this

> kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing this

> particular friendship on an intimate level. This is not the first

> time this has happened to me, either. Most people look at me and

> just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help books)

> for most of my adult life.

>

> I've spent several days thinking about this, and the only

> constructive response I came up with is that I know what I know,

and

> it is not necessary that this person understands where I'm coming

> from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone who

is

> self-absorbed like my nada.

>

> Anyone else deal with this issue?

>

> MJL

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla, and others who have experienced this:

I tried to confide in a friend from church. She basically told me to forget

it, that I lived in the past and to go on with my life. What she didn't realize

is that when you have lived like this for way over 50 years and have suffered

the physical and emotional abuse that we have suffered, and it is still going

on, it is very hard to forget the past, because each incident brings all of it

back.

I think the one things that kept me going about 3 years ago, because I wanted

to die, was starting back to church and couseling with the senior pastor. The

verse that he quoted to me and had me memorize was Romans 5:8 " But God commendth

his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. "

This verse helped me change my ideas about myself, that even if my mother

couldn't/wouldn't show love towards me, that God loved me no matter what.

Developing a Christian relationship with God, and people at church helped me

more than anything. I also found that I wasn't alone in the world, that there

were others in my church that had similar situations.

It is a baby step situation, and sometimes we end up taking a couple

backwards, because none of us are perfect. We make mistakes, we do things

wrong, but we have to have faith in God that he will protect us, lead us and

guide us, and that we have to love ourselves.

My main guilt was that " honor thy father and thy mother " and I felt that I was

not doing that by abandoning my mother. but........... at the same time

screaming, and arguing with her wasn't honoring her either. You have to make

choices, and staying away long enough to become strong enough to be around your

BPD is honoring them.

This site in just a few days has taught me that there are many of us out

there, and that we have each other to discuss this with. I haven't felt that I

was alone for a long time, because I have God watching out for me.

He's watching over you to, even if you don't know it.

Janie

kylaboo728 wrote:

Yes, MJL, unfortunately that's one of those tough lessons I'm

learning as well. Not everyone, even close friends, understands

everything to the depth that we do. And vice versa....

I came across a saying awhile back that I think applies

here: " Maturity is the acceptance of the fact that not everyone

will completely understand. "

I have encountered blank stares from longtime close friends who I

thought would " understand " -- but every individual has to walk alone

sometimes. I think it's by Divine design, myself -- that's when I

know God understands. There's a verse in the Bible where He assures

us he sees to the very depths of our hearts and minds. That's a

comfort to me.

I liken it to when you used to take someone to the airport -- and

you can walk with them and keep them company for a time. Then comes

the part where you're held back and they must walk to the gate by

themselves. Every life has those aspects and issues where we just

have to do it alone, or look elsewhere (like here!) for support and

comfort.

Doesn't means our friends are any less friends -- just means that no

two people are ever exactly alike as they journey through life.

-Kyla

>

> I would like to know if anyone else encounters this. Have you

ever

> tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior and

> their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move on,

> etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been that

> bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And that

> other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things

happen

> to people during their life that have just as big an impact on

them

> as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

>

> I'm just at a loss for words when that happens. It's like they've

> completely invalidated your perceptions. And the worst part is

when

> it comes from someone you've trusted with details about your past

> (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up and share those

> details).

>

> My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has on us is like the

> Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both most of our adult

lives

> to even try to break loose from the hold she's had on us. So are

my

> friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured

this

> kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing this

> particular friendship on an intimate level. This is not the first

> time this has happened to me, either. Most people look at me and

> just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help books)

> for most of my adult life.

>

> I've spent several days thinking about this, and the only

> constructive response I came up with is that I know what I know,

and

> it is not necessary that this person understands where I'm coming

> from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone who

is

> self-absorbed like my nada.

>

> Anyone else deal with this issue?

>

> MJL

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I would like to know if anyone else encounters this. Have you ever

> tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior and

> their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move on,

> etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been that

> bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And that

> other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things happen

> to people during their life that have just as big an impact on them

> as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

>

> I'm just at a loss for words when that happens. It's like they've

> completely invalidated your perceptions. And the worst part is when

> it comes from someone you've trusted with details about your past

> (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up and share those

> details).

>

> My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has on us is like the

> Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both most of our adult lives

> to even try to break loose from the hold she's had on us. So are my

> friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured this

> kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing this

> particular friendship on an intimate level. This is not the first

> time this has happened to me, either. Most people look at me and

> just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help books)

> for most of my adult life.

>

> I've spent several days thinking about this, and the only

> constructive response I came up with is that I know what I know, and

> it is not necessary that this person understands where I'm coming

> from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone who is

> self-absorbed like my nada.

>

> Anyone else deal with this issue?

>

> MJL

>

Some people are very uncomfortable listening to anything stressful. It

is quite sad but difficult to rely or lean on anyone like that. Find a

good listener who has the ability to empathize.

[Guest guest]

And what a blessing to find those people in our lives. As I said, not

everyone can or chooses to do it. It's a pretty advance skill.

I'm glad you had her.

a

> > >

> > > I would like to know if anyone else encounters this. Have you

> > ever

> > > tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior and

> > > their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move

> on,

> > > etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been that

> > > bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And

> that

> > > other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things

> > happen

> > > to people during their life that have just as big an impact on

> > them

> > > as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

> > >

> > > I'm just at a loss for words when that happens. It's like

> they've

> > > completely invalidated your perceptions. And the worst part is

> > when

> > > it comes from someone you've trusted with details about your past

> > > (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up and share those

> > > details).

> > >

> > > My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has on us is like

> the

> > > Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both most of our adult

> > lives

> > > to even try to break loose from the hold she's had on us. So are

> > my

> > > friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured

> > this

> > > kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing

> this

> > > particular friendship on an intimate level. This is not the

> first

> > > time this has happened to me, either. Most people look at me and

> > > just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> > > discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help books)

> > > for most of my adult life.

> > >

> > > I've spent several days thinking about this, and the only

> > > constructive response I came up with is that I know what I know,

> > and

> > > it is not necessary that this person understands where I'm coming

> > > from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone who

> > is

> > > self-absorbed like my nada.

> > >

> > > Anyone else deal with this issue?

> > >

> > > MJL

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

One of my co-workers, who heard me sharing with my

supervisor, did not believe that Nada could be this

way. Another co-worker I did share with, had been

thinking Nada was BP from the very first time I

shared.

Now my Nada is being very nice. I maintain limited

contact. She is the one that calls. I feel more

impowered in regards to my own life and who I am. But

then another individual comes and says & does

something that reminds me of what my Nada would say

and do, about my music abilities. I will be talking

to my Supervisor today about that.

Sonofbp

--- Kerrie wrote:

> oooohhhhh- that's a really, really good one a.

> That pretty much

> sums up my bestfriend from high school whose known

> me this whole time

> and did probably more than anyone to help pull me

> out of the foo

> garbage.She's compassionate w/o joining in on my

> suffering...strong

> enough to w/stand the truth of my suffering, but

> wise enough to let

> me own it. I really like that statement.

>

> Kerrie

>

>

> > >

> > > I would like to know if anyone else encounters

> this. Have you

> > ever

> > > tried to confide in a friend about your BPD

> parent's behavior and

> > > their response is basically to advise you to get

> over it, move

> on,

> > > etc., and then to add that your childhood must

> not have been that

> > > bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you

> are now? And

> that

> > > other people have had it way worse than you, and

> worse things

> > happen

> > > to people during their life that have just as

> big an impact on

> > them

> > > as stuff that happens during childhood and they

> get past it.

> > >

> > > I'm just at a loss for words when that happens.

> It's like

> they've

> > > completely invalidated your perceptions. And

> the worst part is

> > when

> > > it comes from someone you've trusted with

> details about your past

> > > (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up

> and share those

> > > details).

> > >

> > > My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has

> on us is like

> the

> > > Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both

> most of our adult

> > lives

> > > to even try to break loose from the hold she's

> had on us. So are

> > my

> > > friend's comments fairly typical of those who

> have not endured

> > this

> > > kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's

> worth pursuing

> this

> > > particular friendship on an intimate level.

> This is not the

> first

> > > time this has happened to me, either. Most

> people look at me and

> > > just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which

> pretty much

> > > discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy,

> self-help books)

> > > for most of my adult life.

> > >

> > > I've spent several days thinking about this, and

> the only

> > > constructive response I came up with is that I

> know what I know,

> > and

> > > it is not necessary that this person understands

> where I'm coming

> > > from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated

> toward someone who

> > is

> > > self-absorbed like my nada.

> > >

> > > Anyone else deal with this issue?

> > >

> > > MJL

> > >

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Have a burning question?

Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.

[Guest guest]

1. Have you ever

> tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior and

> their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move on,

> etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been that

> bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And that

> other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things

happen

> to people during their life that have just as big an impact on them

> as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

>

2. It's like they've

completely invalidated your perceptions. >

>

3. So are my

> friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured this

> kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing this

> particular friendship on an intimate level.

4. Most people look at me and

> just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help books)

> for most of my adult life.

>

5. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone who is

> self-absorbed like my nada.

>

>

> MJL

MJL,

I know what you are talking about and I think I can help. I have

itemized certain portions of your original text so as to keep myself

organized and on track with your needs.

1. Yes, I get that response from people all the time. I have learned

to just not even mention it to people. The bizarre truth is that most

people can't even conceive of such a horrible upbringing ( " Lifetime "

movies showcase torture, beatings, rape, etc, but rarely emotional

abuse!). Also, because of shows like " lifetime " movies, talk shows,

etc, most people are desensitized to these things. What also happens

is that in our society, we feel a need to one-up each other; in other

words, to tell a story worse than the one told to us. So people

aren't really listening to you, they are merely trying ot one-up you.

2. Yes they are invalidating your feelings, and that is WRONG. It

basically acomplishes the same response in you that your mother was

able to accomplish. I'm sure she never validated your feelings, you

were probably not even allowed to have " negative " feelings (except

shame). What this means is that when people do that to you, it cuts

deeper than it would with someone else. These " people " are not true

friends to you, or they would sense your pain and be more sensative

to your needs.

3. It is NOT worth pursuing a friendship with these people. Like I

said, they are not sensative to your needs and are only trying to

find dominance in one subtle way or another. Growing up with a BPD

mother, you've had already filled your submissive quota for a life

time and don't have any more room for dominant personality types.

4. People assume you're wonderful because you have learned to fake a

happy face through the way you were raised. Also, you have an innate

need to please, to feel out other people and to project what you

think they want from you emotionally. This comes from constantly

trying to judge your mother's moods and trying to keep everything on

an even keel in a homelife that resembled a hurricane with

alternating eyes-of-the-storm.

5. You probably HAVE gravitated toward someone like your mom. My

suggestion: RUN. No regrets, no guilt. It is just an expedient thing

to do. If you stay, it will be at the cost of your own self esteem,

happiness, and peace. Take it from someone who indulged in a

relationship like that. I was constantly used, talked down to,

treated like a second class citizen, etc. She always treated me

nicely around others, our husbands were good buddies, etc, and it

confused me and I hung in there for 3 years! When I reached a point

where I was so angry that my own family was afraid of/for me, I

couldn't sleep and I wished I was dead, well that's when I realized

that it was her impact that was making me feel this way and that it

was time to cut her off. She may have played alternating sweetness

and light with bouts of storm squalls, (which is what draws us in,

confuses us, makes us give them 2nd chances, etc) but she was arsenic

to me. I am more at peace, liberated, balanced and happy than I have

been in 4 years since I've known her!

Good luck to you and keep fighting the good fight. You're worth it!

Judi

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Kyla, and others who have experienced this:

>

> I tried to confide in a friend from church. She basically told

me to forget it, that I lived in the past and to go on with my life.

,

I hate when people say that because they are trying to be helpful,

but it's basically like going to see a podiatrist for a root canal-

they don't know what they're doing and they don't have the right

knowledge to be of any help!

You can't let go of the past because it is scientifically proven that

the past has impacted your present and future by the lessons it has

taught you. You are pre-wired to certain behaviors because of

behaviors you grew up with. You are constantly struggling to re-wire

those behaviors so you can have a " normal " life. You suffered from

constant stress and fear, and probably suffer constantly, if not on-

and-off again, from PTSD. Because you constantly lived in hyper-

vigilance, you're prone to immune defficiency diseases, arthritis,

heart problems, etc.Not to mention risk of drug and alcohol abuse, co-

dependent relationships, etc.

Yes, it would be great to put the past behind us, unfortunately, we

have to fight it every step of the way for the rest of our lives.

Judi

[Guest guest]

mjlpathfinder, I think this is SOO good I have had this saved on my

pc and in my kitchen for the last 5 years. I look at it when I feel

down. I have emailed it to people who I care about and handed out

the printed copy at least 60 times! This is one of my favs! Thanks

for taking the time to post it here. Lizzy

> > >

> > > I would like to know if anyone else encounters this. Have you

> > ever

> > > tried to confide in a friend about your BPD parent's behavior

> and

> > > their response is basically to advise you to get over it, move

> on,

> > > etc., and then to add that your childhood must not have been

> that

> > > bad or you wouldn't be as great a person as you are now? And

> that

> > > other people have had it way worse than you, and worse things

> > happen

> > > to people during their life that have just as big an impact on

> > them

> > > as stuff that happens during childhood and they get past it.

> > >

> > > I'm just at a loss for words when that happens. It's like

> they've

> > > completely invalidated your perceptions. And the worst part

is

> > when

> > > it comes from someone you've trusted with details about your

> past

> > > (and it usually takes me a LONG time to open up and share

those

> > > details).

> > >

> > > My sister recently remarked the hold our mom has on us is like

> the

> > > Helsinki syndrome -- that it's taken us both most of our adult

> > lives

> > > to even try to break loose from the hold she's had on us. So

> are

> > my

> > > friend's comments fairly typical of those who have not endured

> > this

> > > kind of upbringing? I just wonder now if it's worth pursuing

> this

> > > particular friendship on an intimate level. This is not the

> first

> > > time this has happened to me, either. Most people look at me

> and

> > > just assume I had a wonderful upbringing, which pretty much

> > > discounts the work I've done on myself (therapy, self-help

> books)

> > > for most of my adult life.

> > >

> > > I've spent several days thinking about this, and the only

> > > constructive response I came up with is that I know what I

know,

> > and

> > > it is not necessary that this person understands where I'm

> coming

> > > from. And I think I've ONCE AGAIN gravitated toward someone

who

> > is

> > > self-absorbed like my nada.

> > >

> > > Anyone else deal with this issue?

> > >

> > > MJL

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I knew that my husband would be my husband when he believed me. It freaked

me out at first, but now I am grateful every day for that belief. It is

like having this touchstone, somewhere to go to check in and get an honest

evaluation of my own reactions.

I happen to have friends who have seen my nada in action, and some who have

even been the target of some of her behaviors; in that, I'm blessed.

However, my therapist is taking some convincing, and my in-laws only

recently realized the full extent of the problem.

We are all friends to one another. The importance of this group is that we

believe one another, relate to one another, and won't let each other go

without a net. I'm new to the group, and I already know that.

If anyone is looking for ideas about how to handles the disbelievers,

remember the apostle (if you aren't Christian, he's the Doubter), who

had to actually experience Jesus' wounds for himself to believe that He had

resurrected. Dude -- and that was the man he believed to be the Messiah. I

hope that puts it into perspective.

-Maureen

--

" This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it.

Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise

their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to

dismember or overthrow it. " - Abraham Lincoln

[Guest guest]

mjl,

You're not alone in that effort, as you wrote, " to

avoid trying to win the love of nada-like people in my

life. " Thanks for your sharing and wisdom. Keep

coming back.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- mjlpathfinder wrote:

> YES!!! does put things into perspective,

> doesn't he?

>

> Thank you all again for your support and

> encouragement. Something

> I've done in the past is put all my eggs into one

> friendship basket,

> so to speak, and now I'm learning to spread things

> around a bit, to

> broaden my support system. So if my relationship

> with one person

> hits a " plateau " , then I move on to find a more

> intimate connection

> with others. I'm determined to avoid trying to win

> the love of nada-

> like people in my life and am slowly waking up to

> how I've been

> doing that most of my life. I (and all of you)

> deserve better.

>

> MJL

>

>

> >

> > I knew that my husband would be my husband when he

> believed me.

> It freaked

> > me out at first, but now I am grateful every day

> for that belief.

> It is

> > like having this touchstone, somewhere to go to

> check in and get

> an honest

> > evaluation of my own reactions.

> >

> > I happen to have friends who have seen my nada in

> action, and some

> who have

> > even been the target of some of her behaviors; in

> that, I'm

> blessed.

> > However, my therapist is taking some convincing,

> and my in-laws

> only

> > recently realized the full extent of the problem.

> >

> > We are all friends to one another. The importance

> of this group

> is that we

> > believe one another, relate to one another, and

> won't let each

> other go

> > without a net. I'm new to the group, and I

> already know that.

> >

> > If anyone is looking for ideas about how to

> handles the

> disbelievers,

> > remember the apostle (if you aren't

> Christian, he's the

> Doubter), who

> > had to actually experience Jesus' wounds for

> himself to believe

> that He had

> > resurrected. Dude -- and that was the man he

> believed to be the

> Messiah. I

> > hope that puts it into perspective.

> >

> > -Maureen

> >

> > --

> > " This country, with its institutions, belongs to

> the people who

> inhabit it.

> > Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing

> government, they

> can exercise

> > their constitutional right of amending it, or

> their revolutionary

> right to

> > dismember or overthrow it. " - Abraham Lincoln

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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