Re: Back in the old days

[Guest guest]

> As to loyalty... do you remember when my brother visited in summer

90? He later told me that she had made a move on him as we all

slept in the same room, with me asleep right there.

I knew that she would treat you like shit.

She never had the guts to be herself- even though she cut her

friends down behind their backs, she would do anything to be just

like them, just to get them to accept and like her. Sad and

pathetic, isn't it?

I think that's why she was so jealous of me- I could be myself

without any problems- she was trapped in her NTism.

And I think she did like the aspect of competing with me in the

summer. She did kind of rub it in my face- I remember seeing you

two together, walking hand in hand, and her mockingly saying hi to

me. You said hi too, and I assumed you were mocking me with her.

And the fact that she had all of her freinds plot against me,

threaten me, and have Theresa pretend to be my freind so she could

treat me like shit, and more stuff, really is pretty sick.

And I could hear you guys talking, laughing, every time I opened my

window- you were right below my room.

Well, overall I feel good about this- now this whole thing has been

resolved.

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, just the name, " Chandra " would have set off alarm bells

for me. It's the sort of name, like " " or " "

or " Brittany " that some mothers give to their daughters whom

they expect to be total social butterflies. I don't think it's

so much the power of the name, but the sort of mindset that

those mothers have and pass on to their daughters, almost like

osmosis. These daughters are encouraged to become real girlie

girls, the popular cheerleader type. The mothers who name

their daughters such names expect them to fulfill their idea

of perfect womanhood, looked up to and emulated by other females,

and very much desired by males.

What would happen if a girl named turned out to be an

aspie, I have no idea.

Clay, whose heart was broken by a

[Guest guest]

> She treated you badly too? She seemed like a pretty independent

person,

Of course she did. No she was not independent. How can she be an

independent person when she is pulled from all sides to be what

everyone wants her to be? She is not independent- she is a slave to

the group.

She may seem independent in the sense that she can get things done

on her own or SEEM to give off that air, but at her core, she was a

scared little follower. She was so willing to sacrafice whole

pieces of herself to the point where she actually couldn't hardly

see out of a car! She could get in an accident that way, yet taking

that risk, and the discomfort of adjusting the car so that it could

just barely be useful to her, was not important compared to pleasing

Deedee, and ensuring above all things that she was accepted by them.

An independent person would never do that.

She even played helpless to get the attention of a man, and she was

ALWAYS wanting to find a man to " rescue " her and be her hero. I

think she also was hoping to marry a rich man so he could " take care

of her " .

Most guys are threatened by me, because I don't display the weak

female save me thing. I do things on my own that she would never do.

> Are you sure that Chandra had her friends plot against you?

, it can't be more obvious than it was.

Deedee told me how her and her group, with all of them present by

the way, would plot against people they didn't like, find out what

made them tick and ruin their lives for a long time. Chandra had

hinted at this before, too.

Dee then told me a story about a vicious guy who cheated on one of

their close friends, who happened to be a very sweet, kind girl. He

saw her as his possession, and didn't want her to ever date anyone

again. He broke her heart. They situated it so that his heart was

broken as well- I can't remember the details.. either they set their

friend up with one of his rivals, and situated it so that he saw

them together, or something like that.

Deedee said " His life just stopped for a long time. I still don't

think he's recovered " .

At the time I thought it was a great story- one where freinds stick

together, and they were just showing me what wonderful loyal friends

they were to each other.

Then they set up Theresa to be my best friend after I found out

about Chandra and you, or near that time, at least when I was

questioning my friendship with her.

Theresa was there to crush me. She treated me very well at first,

even invited me to see her family, all the things I would want a

true friend to do. She would always say to me " Jeanette, I want to

be best friends with you until we are old and in dipers! "

In fact, I think you were there when she said that one time. Then

she would draw penises on the chalk board at Encinitas. You

protested after she left " Theresa acts like she's horny all the

time...the way she talks, you know "

She would repeat the friend phrase over and over until I decided to

give her a chance- pure aspie trusting shit.

They got all the information they needed to nail me from Chandra, as

I had considered her a true friend, and told her everything.

About Chandra and me...

I thought we were so close... I went to concerts with Chandra when

no one would. I enjoyed them very much. When that guy she was hot

over, " Rob " fucked her and dumped her, and I woke up one morning to

her crying, my empathy feelings kicked in and I started to cry too-

I knew what had happened. I told her not to pay attention to such a

jerk, why worry about what such an asshole thought of her...

That loyalty was meaningless to Chandra- the fact that I cared about

her meant nothing to her. I never forget how she threw away gifts

and cards people gave her. The way she would read it (or not) and

toss it in the trash...

She tried to get me to conform. I would try somethings, but if I

didn't like them, I wouldn't do it. She hated me for that.

She did teach me how to clothes shop (try everything on first) and

eat sushi. No matter what I did, I fell way below the mark.

Hints about how she really felt about me came out- she would say

while at the parking lot, in the car, leaving a concert, as I was

simply trying to have a conversation- " I would be pissed with or

without YOU in the car "

Emphisizing the word " YOU " . I didn't understand what it meant at

the time. She would always be irrationally angry while leaving the

parking lot, too.

That anger was about not being able to get any of her " cool " friends

to go to concerts with her, only an invalid like me, so socially

stupid that it was unbelievable- to NTs anyway.

Every 3 hours or so she would have to run back to the dorm room to

spray her hair- I hated the smell of hairspray, and I thought it

was ridiculous.

Her parents didn't approve of me as a friend when I went to spend

spring break at her parents home. She told me they thought I

was " wierd " .

She slowly grew more and more distant from me as time went on...

..........

Theresa knew when it was time to suddenly dump me, and drop me like

a hot potato- when I was in peril.

She started lying to me about getting together. I would wait for

her, and she wouldn't show up to do things- like go dancing, one of

my favorite things to do.

First day of fall, I went to the dorms thinking I had a room-

somehow I forgot to sign up for fall- it was devestating. My sleep

apnea had started to kick in by then.

I had to rent a room until some place became available. I was lost,

crying on the phone- and I called her. That's when she refused to

do so much as lift a finger for me.

I remember one day in the summer she was talking to me outside her

room- then Dee and everyone came out, looked at her, she looked at

them, as if there was some sort of communication that was going on-

signals. I didn't understand it or think anything of it. That's

the way they wanted it.

She ended the friendship very publically, giving me things she had

borrowed in a bag, and complaining about how Aidee looked at her

like she was a " Cheese Bucket " .

They were hoping I would lay down and die.

While the double blow of Chandra letting me go, an entire group

attacking me (and I thought you were part of that group, just to

please Chandra) and only a month or so later to have Theresa do the

same thing, being moved from room to room was very hard, and the

sleep apnea creeping up on me had most certainly left a scar on my

psyche forever, I didn't lay down and die.

I continued with my Chemistry program. I had a boyfriend in the

spring of '91. He was just my type- tall, long hair, and very

kind. But he didn't know who he was, and wanted me to make all the

decisions for him. He had no courage, no fight in him at all.

I think he was an Aspie, too- he had all the markings of one.

Theresa did get what she deserved. She knew I was looking for a

boyfriend that matched 's discription- then later she saw me

and him, holding hands, walking happily on campus... I'll never

forget the look on her face- her eyes were wide open, she turned

white- and pretended that she didn't see us.

Her boyfriend did nothing but shit on her all the time, and she's

stuck with him.

After 6 months we mutually broke up, and then he stalked me with my

mom's approval and help for 2-3 years.

He put notes on my car, followed me to my classes, waited for me

outside, would ask everyone and anyone in the chemistry department

what was going on with me, etc.

ICK ICK ICK!!! He was a " saran wrap " man- someone who just couldn't

let go. At times I was scared for my life. Adiee didn't help. She

eventually started to abuse me, yell at me, and tell me how stupid

it was that I was afraid of stalking me.

That was the end of THAT friendship. I think she had issues with

the fact that I was 1/2 white, and I didn't conform to what she

wanted. She hated white people. In the SEES program, several told

me I didn't belong there, because I LOOKED too white. They openly

said the same thing to another light-skinned hispanic. They don't

want to be judged my the color of their skin, but BOY, they can sure

judge others.

This pattern repeated itself over, and over, and over in my life.

My AS traits got me in trouble, and people hated me, because I don't

conform, etc.

It even happended before then-

In fact, when I was in 1st grade, by best friend from Kindergarden

would do something strange. She would go from one end of school

yard to the other, and just sit there, away from everyone.

Even if we were having a sleep-over that day, she would ignore me

and tell me to go away. I didn't understand it.

All my social trouble started in the first grade- now I know she

was already doing the NT thing, of avoiding me because I was

unpopular for AS reasons.

Other kids would plot against me too- other times, pretending to be

my friend, then stabbing me in the back.

I would be clueless everytime this happened, not understanding how

they could be so mean to me when I didn't do anything to them, why

they had to do more and more things, why they would lie, etc.

This was the profound confusion of AS. I couldn't even FATHOM the

social rules at all. The first book I read about it was so hard to

grasp, that it took me 2-3 years just to understand the concepts

of " How to win friends and influence people " . My dad forced me to

read it at a young age, and I still didn't get it, or finish it.

After reading it in my twenties it took that long to understand it.

To do it is impossible.

I did eventually get my BS degree in Chemistry, and have worked as a

chemist.

Sorry for the long digression...

> I understand that Chandra was concerned about outward appearances,

but I never saw her as one that would be particularly vindictive. >

Everyone's vindictive, , it just varies with shades of grey.

And I do remember her talking about doing things to certain people,

and how she could convince Dee to do things for her, including get

even with people she didn't like.

>She was too much of a me-too follower to really take the initiative

>to do something like that.

No, NTs favorite game is vengance. They love to hurt people for

little or no reason.

Deedee was probably the initiator behind it, but Chanrda knew how to

manipulate Dee. She HAD to say or do something to get Dee to see me

as a threat- it was obvious that I didn't do anything to her, unless

she made something up.

I wonder what the hell she said to Dee....

BTW, does your form of Aspie allow you to know what someone means

when they change the tone of their voice like using 3 syllables for

name, but not to a mocking tone?

Aspies have different ways of learning, different reading and

expressing strengths.

You MAY be a better reader than I am. I am probably a better

expresser than you are- I don't rock, and that sort of thing.

People can definately read me, to the point where I can't hide it no

matter how hard I try.

That's why you say you know who your friends are, and I know I can't

tell.

But I think I can read negative BL when it sneaks out without others

wanting it to- I'm hypersensitive in that way. Probably because of

all they confusion my whole life, I decided subconciously that it is

only important to know when people don't like me, since I can't read

when they REALLY DO like me- and that was so rare.

Chandra would at times make fun of my voice. I over-heard her doing

it one day. My voice is deeper that most, and she knew I was self

concious about it.

She also would use my bashing hall nickname (I think she made it up,

too) with others.

All this I found out later.

That day as she walked by with you, she mocked my voice- and had a

smirk on her face as she said " Hi Jeanette " . For some reason you

imitated her, and said it the same or similar way she did, whether

you realize it or not.

I'll never forget that day as long as I live- and now more things

are flashing back to me...

Jeanette

[Guest guest]

> I was talking about here. Is this who you are talking

about?

No- I thought you were talking about Chandra- that's who I was

talking about.

Anyway, is not independent either, because she stuck with

that mean boyfriend of hers for eternity. She was so stuck on that

guy, he didn't have to do anything to get her to come running back

to him after he insulted her, etc.

>> In fact, I think you were there when she said that one time. Then

> > she would draw penises on the chalk board at Encinitas. You

> > protested after she left " Theresa acts like she's horny all the

> > time...the way she talks, you know "

>

> I do not understand that statement. Who said that citation

immediately above?

You did. You were sitting there with me and and I don't know

who else in the common area of the dorms. was saying how she

wanted to be my friend " forever " . Then later she was talking about

some jerk, and called him a " phallus erectus " and drew one on the

chalk board that was there.

After she left the area, you made that statement.

> > Hints about how she really felt about me came out- she would say

> > while at the parking lot, in the car, leaving a concert, as I

was

> > simply trying to have a conversation- " I would be pissed with or

> > without YOU in the car "

> >

> > Emphisizing the word " YOU " . I didn't understand what it meant

at the

> > time. She would always be irrationally angry while leaving the

> > parking lot, too.

>

> I do not understand what that meant. How does that reflect on how

she

> felt about you? If she would be pissed without you in the car,

then

> maybe she was mad in general? I am missing what you are saying

with this.

Why would she sit there and

1. proclaim she was pissed, when it was obvious

2. that it didn't matter if I was in the car or not

3. When I didn't ask her why she was mad at all

4. And despite what she SAID, her emphasis was the word " YOU " .

She was saying that I DO make her mad sometimes, or annoy her, or

something. She had never told me what I did wrong before, or that I

did anything wrong. I thought if something bugged her that much,

she would tell me.

The fact that she emphisized the word " you " meant that in fact she

was mad that I was in the car, and somehow I was annoying her,

despite the fact that all the other words meant something different.

It's NT speak- saying the opposite of what you mean, but using tone

to convey many things.

It's confusing, and takes time to decipher.

> You should have listened when Chandra told you not to pet

Sugar.

Really? Especially when they all pet Sugar anyway.

I thought you said she didn't say anything about me to you that you

can recall....

hmmm.... ;0)

> I am sorry to read that. Wasn't she living in the village at that

point?

I don't remember.

> After 6 months we mutually broke up, and then he stalked me with

my

> > mom's approval and help for 2-3 years.

>

> Sheesh... if not for bad luck, you would have none at all.

That's right . I'm like Rodney Dangerfield, I don't get no

respect at all, or that guy in the movie " Pure Luck " , who has

nothing but bad luck all day long and somehow survives it all.

The only " people " that really take care of me and love me are the

kitties.

There, I have all the luck in the world.

My adopters have called me back and told me how my cats were the

best out of all they have owned- the sweetest, spunkiest, etc.

I can sometimes get total stranger cats to come up to me, when they

won't do that with other people.

But otherwise, I think something that helps me be a bigger target as

an Aspie is the fact that I'm readable, but miss social cues, and

lots of body language communication.

People THINK I should know what to do socially, but I don't. Also,

I used to be very outspoken. I try hard to keep quiet, but they

goad me on and sometimes I give in.

Many times I innocently reveal the truth about whatever, and that

gets me into the most trouble. I don't think it's a big deal, and

it is, and they don't tell me it is. They just stab me in the back.

Or I do a good job, and instead of thinking I'm an asset to a

company, they think I'm going to take their job away, so they bad

mouth me so I can't go anywhere.

Another AS thing is I don't always learn from my mistakes. I'm

getting better at that by slowing down. Or I'm too stubborn to

follow rules that make me miserable.

> > BTW, does your form of Aspie allow you to know what someone

means

> > when they change the tone of their voice like using 3 syllables

for

> > name, but not to a mocking tone?

>

> I don't understand the question. I think this has to do with my

comment

> about how Chandra said my name when I told her I had moved to

Hesperia.

> I knew what she was expressing, but I can't put it into words.

> Something like " oh no " combined with " crap, why did you go and do

that? "

I was trying to see the limits of your reading people's tones; tone

of voice and what it means. What you understand and what you miss/

or don't understand as far as tone is concerned.

I have a basic view that people are not trustworthy, and I let the

evidence, if it is there, prove otherwise.

I do the same thing. They can fool you by doing the right thing at

first, then being jerks when they think they've got you. They are

shocked when finally catch them I let them go.

> Didn't you have some kind of difficulty with sibilants while

speaking or something?

No- I don't have any speaking problems. But maybe the sibilants are

more pronounced.

Some people make fun of it. One guy did that at a party- he was a

drug addict and a jerk. This was years ago, and a highlight for me,

when I had an excellent comeback to something an asshole says to me..

Everyone was drunk or high, but I was sober- and this asshole was

plastered pretty good, and bragged about how me made more money

selling and making drugs than I did as a chemist.

He was such a jerk to people that he was disliked by most. This was

while I was in 12 step.

He didn't to anything anymore, he was just a loser- so I said to him

" Yes, but look at where you are today! " It was an innocent comment

of truth.

The entire group of people were laughing hysterically for a few

minutes, and he knew I had nailed him.

Someone said " Jeanette, you're my hero! "

I felt very good that day- it was fun. I knew it was my crowning

moment in the sun, where I had finally put an asshole in his place.

Jeanette