Re: Re: Back in the old days

[Guest guest]

greeneuropa2 wrote:

> > As to loyalty... do you remember when my brother visited in summer

> >

> 90? He later told me that she had made a move on him as we all slept

> in the same room, with me asleep right there.

>

>

> I knew that she would treat you like shit.

I know you did... you warned me several times that she was like that.

> She never had the guts to be herself- even though she cut her friends

> down behind their backs, she would do anything to be just like them,

> just to get them to accept and like her. Sad and pathetic, isn't it?

I always told her that she worried too much about what others think.

She was so wrapped up in being what everyone else wanted that she had no

real idea what she wanted. And it was not just her peer group either--

she tried to maintain the illusion her mother had of what an ideal

college student should be, too. She was pulled in all different

directions by different people's desires.

> I think that's why she was so jealous of me- I could be myself

> without any problems- she was trapped in her NTism.

I did not know the term " NT " at that time, but she was overly concerned

about image, and not at all with substance.

> And I think she did like the aspect of competing with me in the

> summer. She did kind of rub it in my face- I remember seeing you two

> together, walking hand in hand, and her mockingly saying hi to me.

> You said hi too, and I assumed you were mocking me with her.

I never knew she was mocking you. I thought she was being friendly. I

wasn't mocking you.

> And the fact that she had all of her freinds plot against me,

> threaten me, and have Theresa pretend to be my freind so she could

> treat me like shit, and more stuff, really is pretty sick.

She treated you badly too? She seemed like a pretty independent person,

one that could be friends with a social pariah without worry. She and I

were friends, relatively speaking. Are you sure that Chandra had her

friends plot against you? I understand that Chandra was concerned about

outward appearances, but I never saw her as one that would be

particularly vindictive. She was too much of a me-too follower to

really take the initiative to do something like that.

> Well, overall I feel good about this- now this whole thing has been

> resolved.

Good

[Guest guest]

Just wanna say what a great thing to see 2 people being able to work through

past events, getting some healing,and resolution through understanding each

other and things better.

The truth does set us free,though it crucifies us first.,after stripping us

naked and walking us down the main street,where we are mocked,stoned and spat

on.

Its great that you both chose to put your* faith* in the power of truth,even

though that includes self exposure...to others,to yourselves.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Wish everyone could do the same without becoming adversarially defensive,and

seeing themselves as being on some mission to promote and preserve their

fragile self.,at any cost.

Truth is the only thing that can preserve or promote anything,and the heart of

truth is love.

Ta for sharing your experience,Jeanette and .

anna from ozz

Klein wrote:

greeneuropa2 wrote:

> > As to loyalty... do you remember when my brother visited in summer

> >

> 90? He later told me that she had made a move on him as we all slept

> in the same room, with me asleep right there.

>

>

> I knew that she would treat you like shit.

I know you did... you warned me several times that she was like that.

> She never had the guts to be herself- even though she cut her friends

> down behind their backs, she would do anything to be just like them,

> just to get them to accept and like her. Sad and pathetic, isn't it?

I always told her that she worried too much about what others think.

She was so wrapped up in being what everyone else wanted that she had no

real idea what she wanted. And it was not just her peer group either--

she tried to maintain the illusion her mother had of what an ideal

college student should be, too. She was pulled in all different

directions by different people's desires.

> I think that's why she was so jealous of me- I could be myself

> without any problems- she was trapped in her NTism.

I did not know the term " NT " at that time, but she was overly concerned

about image, and not at all with substance.

> And I think she did like the aspect of competing with me in the

> summer. She did kind of rub it in my face- I remember seeing you two

> together, walking hand in hand, and her mockingly saying hi to me.

> You said hi too, and I assumed you were mocking me with her.

I never knew she was mocking you. I thought she was being friendly. I

wasn't mocking you.

> And the fact that she had all of her freinds plot against me,

> threaten me, and have Theresa pretend to be my freind so she could

> treat me like shit, and more stuff, really is pretty sick.

She treated you badly too? She seemed like a pretty independent person,

one that could be friends with a social pariah without worry. She and I

were friends, relatively speaking. Are you sure that Chandra had her

friends plot against you? I understand that Chandra was concerned about

outward appearances, but I never saw her as one that would be

particularly vindictive. She was too much of a me-too follower to

really take the initiative to do something like that.

> Well, overall I feel good about this- now this whole thing has been

> resolved.

Good

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Clay wrote:

> Hmmm, just the name, " Chandra " would have set off alarm bells for me.

Well, if you consider that it is an Indian name (not Native American),

and her father was Indian, then it is a little different than when white

people give it to their kids.

> It's the sort of name, like " " or " " or " Brittany " that

> some mothers give to their daughters whom they expect to be total

> social butterflies. I don't think it's so much the power of the

> name, but the sort of mindset that those mothers have and pass on to

> their daughters, almost like osmosis. These daughters are encouraged

> to become real girlie girls, the popular cheerleader type. The

> mothers who name their daughters such names expect them to fulfill

> their idea of perfect womanhood, looked up to and emulated by other

> females, and very much desired by males.

Chandra was her high school valedictorian. Kind of hard for me to

imagine, because in my high school, she would not have even come close.

[Guest guest]

greeneuropa2 wrote:

>

> > She treated you badly too? She seemed like a pretty independent

> person,

>

> Of course she did. No she was not independent. How can she be an

> independent person when she is pulled from all sides to be what

> everyone wants her to be? She is not independent- she is a slave to

> the group.

I was talking about here. Is this who you are talking about?

> Then they set up Theresa to be my best friend after I found out about

> Chandra and you, or near that time, at least when I was questioning

> my friendship with her.

>

> Theresa was there to crush me. She treated me very well at first,

> even invited me to see her family, all the things I would want a true

> friend to do. She would always say to me " Jeanette, I want to be

> best friends with you until we are old and in dipers! "

>

> In fact, I think you were there when she said that one time. Then

> she would draw penises on the chalk board at Encinitas. You

> protested after she left " Theresa acts like she's horny all the

> time...the way she talks, you know "

I do not understand that statement. Who said that citation immediately

above?

> I thought we were so close... I went to concerts with Chandra when

> no one would. I enjoyed them very much. When that guy she was hot

> over, " Rob " fucked her and dumped her,

I never did figure out what the deal with that guy was. Chandra said

she was upset that all he wanted to do was ride his motorcycle and smoke

cigarettes. Well, that was all I ever saw him do-- maybe she could have

figured that out before getting together with him?

> That loyalty was meaningless to Chandra- the fact that I cared about

> her meant nothing to her. I never forget how she threw away gifts

> and cards people gave her. The way she would read it (or not) and

> toss it in the trash...

Really. If I still cared about her it would have been disappointing to

read that. I had never seen that. I still have everything she (and

most others that have known me) have given me.

> She tried to get me to conform. I would try somethings, but if I

> didn't like them, I wouldn't do it. She hated me for that. She did

> teach me how to clothes shop (try everything on first) and eat sushi.

> No matter what I did, I fell way below the mark.

In her way, she was trying to help. Remember that in her mind,

conformity is the only option... the only valid way to be. She probably

saw how much people dogged you out, and tried to help you get with the

program. But the things that kept you from having the innate desire to

get with the program in the first place probably prevented that from

working.

> Hints about how she really felt about me came out- she would say

> while at the parking lot, in the car, leaving a concert, as I was

> simply trying to have a conversation- " I would be pissed with or

> without YOU in the car "

>

> Emphisizing the word " YOU " . I didn't understand what it meant at the

> time. She would always be irrationally angry while leaving the

> parking lot, too.

I do not understand what that meant. How does that reflect on how she

felt about you? If she would be pissed without you in the car, then

maybe she was mad in general? I am missing what you are saying with this.

> That anger was about not being able to get any of her " cool " friends

> to go to concerts with her, only an invalid like me, so socially

> stupid that it was unbelievable- to NTs anyway.

Interesting. I did go to a few concerts with her... my first, actually,

as I had never had the inclination to go to one before having met her.

Black Crowes/ Plant. Then Anthrax/ Iron Maiden. Aah yes, those

were the days... not like this stuff they call music today. I refused

to go to Idol with her, though, and that would have been the

first. And we did have tickets to Guns N Roses that we were supposed to

use in September of 1991, but I never went.

> Every 3 hours or so she would have to run back to the dorm room to

> spray her hair- I hated the smell of hairspray, and I thought it was

> ridiculous.

She was a typical vain girlie girl. She would not even go to Raging

Waters without wearing a hat to cover her undone hair, lest anyone see

it on the walk between the dorm room and the car.

> Her parents didn't approve of me as a friend when I went to spend

> spring break at her parents home. She told me they thought I was

> " wierd " .

You should have listened when Chandra told you not to pet Sugar.

Undoubtedly, they would have found me lacking as well, which is why they

never did find out about me.

> Theresa knew when it was time to suddenly dump me, and drop me like a

> hot potato- when I was in peril.

>

> She started lying to me about getting together. I would wait for

> her, and she wouldn't show up to do things- like go dancing, one of

> my favorite things to do.

I guess it fell short of the time when the two of you were to be in

diapers

> First day of fall, I went to the dorms thinking I had a room- somehow

> I forgot to sign up for fall- it was devestating. My sleep apnea had

> started to kick in by then.

>

> I had to rent a room until some place became available. I was lost,

> crying on the phone- and I called her. That's when she refused to

> do so much as lift a finger for me.

I am sorry to read that. Wasn't she living in the village at that point?

> While the double blow of Chandra letting me go, an entire group

> attacking me (and I thought you were part of that group, just to

> please Chandra)

They tolerated my presence because I was with Chandra, but I was never

in that group. Dee in particular would have liked to see me banished to

Siberia, and most of the others were pretty ambivalent. She hung with

them, and I hung with her... I never hung out with any of them but her

intentionally.

> I continued with my Chemistry program. I had a boyfriend in the

> spring of '91. He was just my type- tall, long hair, and very kind.

> But he didn't know who he was, and wanted me to make all the

> decisions for him. He had no courage, no fight in him at all.

Good for you.

> After 6 months we mutually broke up, and then he stalked me with my

> mom's approval and help for 2-3 years.

Sheesh... if not for bad luck, you would have none at all.

> ICK ICK ICK!!! He was a " saran wrap " man- someone who just couldn't

> let go. At times I was scared for my life. Adiee didn't help. She

> eventually started to abuse me, yell at me, and tell me how stupid

> it was that I was afraid of stalking me.

Unfortunately, there are a number of spectrum folks that are like that,

and this is one thing I begrdugingly admit was true about that horrible

Shiela Linehan article we were all tearing apart on AutAdvo. There is

one member of the Phoenix group that did this same kind of thing,

oblivious to the fact that he was not only scaring someone, but breaking

the law as well.

> That was the end of THAT friendship. I think she had issues with the

> fact that I was 1/2 white, and I didn't conform to what she wanted.

> She hated white people. In the SEES program, several told me I

> didn't belong there, because I LOOKED too white. They openly said the

> same thing to another light-skinned hispanic. They don't want to be

> judged my the color of their skin, but BOY, they can sure judge

> others.

Well, in a group whose very basis is racist ( " no whites allowed " ),

looking white can make you the target of that same racism. I never

would have been allowed in there at all. I have been discriminated

against because I am white right here where I live... I think I am the

only white tenant here. But there are no groups to assist white people

that are discriminated against, and if they do pop up, they are marked

as " white supremacist " groups, and thus marginalized into nonexistence.

> All my social trouble started in the first grade- now I know she was

> already doing the NT thing, of avoiding me because I was unpopular

> for AS reasons.

I never noticed it until the third grade myself.

> I did eventually get my BS degree in Chemistry, and have worked as a

> chemist.

Good for you. I never graduated, as you know. The depression proved to

be too much for me, and eventually I just quit trying, after years of

going nowhere.

> Deedee was probably the initiator behind it, but Chanrda knew how to

> manipulate Dee. She HAD to say or do something to get Dee to see me

> as a threat- it was obvious that I didn't do anything to her, unless

> she made something up.

Dee was pretty mean in her own right. It would not have taken much to

get on her excrement list.

> BTW, does your form of Aspie allow you to know what someone means

> when they change the tone of their voice like using 3 syllables for

> name, but not to a mocking tone?

I don't understand the question. I think this has to do with my comment

about how Chandra said my name when I told her I had moved to Hesperia.

I knew what she was expressing, but I can't put it into words.

Something like " oh no " combined with " crap, why did you go and do that? "

> You MAY be a better reader than I am. I am probably a better

> expresser than you are- I don't rock, and that sort of thing. People

> can definately read me, to the point where I can't hide it no matter

> how hard I try.

Rocking is related to sensory issues, not necessarily expression. I

have a lot of sensory difficulties, and rocking, hand flapping, talking

to myself, etc., all help me deal with it and burn off cortisol, all

while stimulating endorphin flow.

> That's why you say you know who your friends are, and I know I can't

> tell.

It could be that, or it could be explained in a few other ways. I

inherently do not trust people. I have a basic view that people are not

trustworthy, and I let the evidence, if it is there, prove otherwise.

That assumption serves to make me more aware of the things people do to

not be trusted. I am more apt to see them when they present themselves

if I am looking for them. And in addition, we have already established

that I have a greater tolerance of what NTs can do before I write them

off as friends.

The other thing could be that I really only think I know who my friends

are. Obviously, I don't think that is the case, else I would not have

said I know who my friends are, but it is a possiblity nonetheless.

> Chandra would at times make fun of my voice. I over-heard her doing

> it one day. My voice is deeper that most, and she knew I was self

> concious about it.

Didn't you have some kind of difficulty with sibilants while speaking or

something? Whatever it was, I never thought it was a problem. There

was nothing unpleasant about it that I recall. My voice is a little

high for a male voice... no big deal though to me.

> That day as she walked by with you, she mocked my voice- and had a

> smirk on her face as she said " Hi Jeanette " . For some reason you

> imitated her, and said it the same or similar way she did, whether

> you realize it or not.

Well, I don't recall that specifically, but I do know that I never had

any malice toward you.