Cry baby

[Guest guest]

Jane wrote:

> In other cases (and again, I am speaking generally, NOT

> about your husband, Louis), I suspect some adult children

> have formed their own picture of what " unconditional love "

> from a parent should look/feel like, and that mental

> construct prevents the adult child from seeing that the

> parent, although not living up to that mental image in

> the adult child's mind, is living out the parent's own

> version of " unconditional love. "

That's a good point. A lot of misunderstandings and

hard feelings are caused by people using different

working definitions for the same words. We may think

we know what something means, but we really only know

what it means to US.

Clay

[Guest guest]

>

> > In other cases (and again, I am speaking generally, NOT

> > about your husband, Louis), I suspect some adult children

> > have formed their own picture of what " unconditional love "

> > from a parent should look/feel like, and that mental

> > construct prevents the adult child from seeing that the

> > parent, although not living up to that mental image in

> > the adult child's mind, is living out the parent's own

> > version of " unconditional love. "

>

> That's a good point. A lot of misunderstandings and

> hard feelings are caused by people using different

> working definitions for the same words. We may think

> we know what something means, but we really only know

> what it means to US.

>

> Clay

************

Nods head in agreement to Clay, and Jane, your post was well writen

and worth going back to. Im also having trouble accepting my fathers

love, he puts me down and laughs at me to an extent where it seems

normal, but i know he loves me anyway, he just has his own problems.

Hearing your description is nice because its like two heads are

better than one..

Gareth.

[Guest guest]

My father's just a pussywhipped wimp of a man.

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

>I'd just die if my son became a white suprematist or

>went into the army.

>

Going into the army won't be a matter of choice for much

longer, I fear. Nobody in Washington is talking about it

much, but they are going to bring back the draft. They

have already started looking for people to staff the draft boards.

The draft will probably start up right after the elections

unless we can pull off a miracle in November.

Until now, Bush has relied on the terrible job market to push

people into the military, but they aren't getting enough recruits

even to handle the occupation of Iraq, let alone all the other

countries he wants to invade and occupy.

Stop the Crusade

Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thank you for sharing that information, I don't follow politics very

closely at all, since I think politicians are liars nearly always.

I hope that my son would take the stand that some of his relatives

took at the end of World War II, which is to ask for a conscientious

objector status, and if denied go to federal pen for refusing to go

to war. Two of his dad's uncles did that, they should have been

given conscientious objector status, but they went to prison instead,

for about a year and a half, I think, in Washington State.

Killing is wrong. Killing because a government tells you to kill is

really stupid, they lie through their teeth all the time.

Camille

>

> >I'd just die if my son became a white suprematist or

> >went into the army.

> >

> Going into the army won't be a matter of choice for much

> longer, I fear. Nobody in Washington is talking about it

> much, but they are going to bring back the draft. They

> have already started looking for people to staff the draft boards.

> The draft will probably start up right after the elections

> unless we can pull off a miracle in November.

>

> Until now, Bush has relied on the terrible job market to push

> people into the military, but they aren't getting enough recruits

> even to handle the occupation of Iraq, let alone all the other

> countries he wants to invade and occupy.

>

>

> Stop the Crusade

>

>

>

> Ride the Music

>

> AndyTiedye

[Guest guest]

This message from gareth arched across the cosmos:

>Ok; *Why did you go out with this guy!!!!!!!!!!* ?

To be honest, I thought he was an extremely good guy... I only wanted a

totally non-violent, gentle fellow. C seemed just like that, he was very

deliberate-moving, not very social, had never hit anybody or yelled even

when being beaten up by his siblings -- very quiet sort of fellow that I

thought might be " just like me. " For a time, he seemed to be that way, too.

Problems physically cropped up about seven months after we became partners.

There were a lot of changes, and whereas before I had just avoided him

whenever I was upset, he no longer was letting that happen. He would come

to my house (he lived about 2 miles away) or find me elsewhere around town

or school (we also attended uni together) and refuse to leave me alone. I

had no idea how to handle that, and when I tried asking friends/family for

help, they just laughed it off as normal, so I was left alone. Sometimes if

I was home they'd let him in, or a mutual friend would engineer it so I'd

" have " to spend time with him so he'd stop complaining to her.

Eventually I wasn't able to keep from showing how upset I was around him,

and that is when the physical stuff started. I'd already been turned away

once by family/friends for protesting his behavior, and I only thought

" abuse " included striking/hitting/etc so I had no idea it wasn't normal...

I knew I was unhappy but thought that it was just because I was broken, not

designed for relationships especially as that is what he kept telling me

the real problem was. (I still strongly suspect that he might be right in

that sense.)

>I mean seriously, its probably this thing that most angers me about

>women; They go out with men that treat them bad, then complain about

>it to people like me who only try to be good to them, but wouldnt

>look twice at us in a sexual sense.

I've always hated that about most women as well, actually -- I can't get

along with them because there are always related thought processes in them

that crop up and frustrate me. I couldn't even go to the movies with that

kind of woman because they'll swoon over the macho/aggressive men I'd run

in fear/revulsion from, and when I point out the nice/kind guys I like,

they make fun of me. Even other males seem to think that men with

" aggressive " features (muscular structures on the face that only come if

one spends most of one's time tense/frowning rather than laughing/smiling)

are more appealing, whereas I dislike that and prefer muscular signs of

somebody that normally has a friendly/gentle attitude.

>so many women just keep

>going with the bad guys, which

>1) means the bad guys have no reason to stop, indeed, they are

>rewarded for their misdeeds in ways that i can only dream of

>

>2) the women still gets abused.

I agree, and both of those have always really angered me.

>Maybe im being to logical about all this, one common reason i hear

>is " you cant control who you love " but it all seems so dumb to me.

I do agree that to some degree you can't, but there's always the choice of

whether one has contact with the individual or not; being in love doesn't

mean that you *have* to be with the person. If the pair aren't together,

from what I've seen, with rare exception they'll forget one another and

move on after a while, so basically it comes down to leaving before (or

regardless of whether) love sets in.

What I can't grasp, in the case of people like that, is why it is that if

they have plenty of other friends of their own kind, why they can't cut the

one bad person out? In a solitary lonely-type autistic's case, the person

might feel that " it's this person or nobody, ever, at all, not even as a

friend " but that doesn't make sense for those not lacking in alternatives.

DeGraf ~*~ blog http://sonic.net/mustang/moggy

" If the abnormal goes on long enough it becomes the normal. "

-- Terry Pratchett

[Guest guest]

Camille wrote:

>Hi,

>

>Thank you for sharing that information, I don't follow politics very

>closely at all, since I think politicians are liars nearly always.

>

>I hope that my son would take the stand that some of his relatives

>took at the end of World War II, which is to ask for a conscientious

>objector status, and if denied go to federal pen for refusing to go

>to war. Two of his dad's uncles did that, they should have been

>given conscientious objector status, but they went to prison instead,

>for about a year and a half, I think, in Washington State.

>

>

If he is autistic, it should be possible for him to get a medical

exemption, if

his condition would materially affect his ability to perform military

service

(as it certainly would for most of us!). We will all need to watch

the process

very carefully to ensure that any draft allows exemptions for " invisible "

conditions like autism, and not only for obvious physical handicaps.

Some autistics may do well in the military, but many more would not.

It would be totally daft to send congenitally clumsy autistic persons

into combat.

We lose too many soldiers to accidents and " friendly fire " as it is.

>Killing is wrong. Killing because a government tells you to kill is

>really stupid, they lie through their teeth all the time.

>

>

If there *is* such a thing a just war, why do they always have to lie

about it?

Surely we deserve the truth when the nation is making such a terrible

decision,

but instead they always feed us a pack of lies to justify it.

>Camille

>

>

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>>>I'd just die if my son became a white suprematist or

>>>went into the army.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>Going into the army won't be a matter of choice for much

>>longer, I fear. Nobody in Washington is talking about it

>>much, but they are going to bring back the draft. They

>>have already started looking for people to staff the draft boards.

>>The draft will probably start up right after the elections

>>unless we can pull off a miracle in November.

>>

>>Until now, Bush has relied on the terrible job market to push

>>people into the military, but they aren't getting enough recruits

>>even to handle the occupation of Iraq, let alone all the other

>>countries he wants to invade and occupy.

>>

>>

>>Stop the Crusade

>>

>>

>>

>>Ride the Music

>>

>>AndyTiedye

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

There was a Sunday comic about a year ago, can't remember the name of

it, where they showed a young man from the Middle ages I think,

talking to an older man about going to war. The older man said

something like, " If the elders think it's so glorious to die for

one's country, then why don't they go out there and fight themselves? "

Anyway, my son isn't autistic, he has a tiny bit of something like

dyslexia, either that or he had a hatred for school work. He's big

and a little overweight and hurt his knees already. But I would want

him to refuse to go to war on the grounds of his beliefs not because

he wasn't physically fit.

There have been autistics in the military and it amazes me. They

liked/like the predictability of the situation apparently, although

there is enough hypocrisy in the military to make it unpredictable.

The AS man who is my boss has a niece who recently blew the whistle

on one of the military acadamies here in the US, she had been coerced

into sexual acts (or they tried) by superiors and she said that it

was an endemic problem. (She was on a well known talk show recently,

interviewed on her story about this)

So many autistics startle easily and have depth perception

problems...but I guess there are plenty who don't.

I don't know if I commented on this before, my boss refused to be

drafted for the vietnam war although he had 2 older brothers and a

younger brother who all went there (the younger brother after his

refusal to go). He fought it in court and very nearly went to jail,

but didn't. His brothers told him that they are glad he didn't go

because the experience was so bad for them. According to my boss,

one said, " it's a good thing you didn't go, they would have made you

a 2nd Lieutenant and they killed the 2nd Lieutenants "

I said, " Who killed the 2nd Lieutenants, the Americans or the

enemy? " My boss said, " The American army killed their own officers

because the 2nd Lieutenants were educated and didn't want to

cooperate with their superiors " My boss is an engineer and a very

smart (geeky) gentle man. He said the reason that he didn't go to

Vietnam was this, " They told me for 18 years 'thou shalt not kill'

and then suddenly they told me it was ok to kill. " He was raised a

Catholic (not known for being conscientious objectors), but the

illogic of killing just floored him. He told me, " Looking back on

it, I can see it was Aspie stubbornness. "

I really like him, such a nice guy.

Camille

> If he is autistic, it should be possible for him to get a medical

> exemption, if

> his condition would materially affect his ability to perform

military

> service

> (as it certainly would for most of us!). We will all need to

watch

> the process

> very carefully to ensure that any draft allows exemptions

for " invisible "

> conditions like autism, and not only for obvious physical handicaps.

>

> Some autistics may do well in the military, but many more would

not.

> It would be totally daft to send congenitally clumsy autistic

persons

> into combat.

> We lose too many soldiers to accidents and " friendly fire " as it is.

>

[Guest guest]

> He's big

> and a little overweight and hurt his knees already. But I would

> want him to refuse to go to war on the grounds of his beliefs not

> because he wasn't physically fit.

The overweight thing was actually what kept my dad out of the war when

he was drafted. He was called in, they examined him, and they said he

was going. He got very depressed and sat around and ate a lot. He

showed up when it was time for him to report again, and the guy

basically yelled at him, " Are you trying to EAT your way out of the

service? " It turned out he was over some kind of weight limit and

they weren't allowed to take him. He had had no idea there *was* a

weight limit. His own father had not been drafted because he happened

to farm something that was needed by the military, so they have kind

of a strange family history of not being picked to go but not

deliberately avoiding it either.

[Guest guest]

Clay,

Everything you said to Anas about approaching parents in a calm manner

makes, esp. about dx of a child, no matter the child's age.

I too was given the " I'll give you something to cry about. " commentary...

I was/am sensitive, or so I am told, worrying/obsessing about

overpopulation of cats and people at a young age; that sort of thing.

I would get the crying hiccoughs and my father bless him had no tolerance

for it whatsover.

My mother would turn down the lights and I'd get rocked by her, my huge

limbs wrapped around her, me shaking until I tried to stop the crying.

she'd say hurry hurry your father'll be home....

He just didn't get it.

He'd say What's got into her now? Someone should give her something to

cry about...crying like that over nothing. In my day...

She did have a tad more understanding, SOMEtimes.

I remember my husband, before he became paralyzed of course, and this

pains me of course, to recall it, tossing a ball to our middle son and

then it got ugly-he decided to ''toughen him up-by pitching it AT him

repeatedly. He was crying. He said he'd give him something to cry about,

he just needed toughening up. All boys do. One of our bad fights. But

that was 7 yrs. ago/

Kim

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