Cry baby

January 4, 2004

My parents have just recently had a big discussion about me 'their

troubled son'. They still think that I am a hypochondriac NT and have

never had any unusual childhood problems. A lot of my AS was hidden

from them as I was always very private, self conscious, independant

quiet and shy.

Their ignorance and blindness is stressing me. If I say anything new

they think 'Oh God! here he goes again.'

I have now decided that I will create a long list of my dysfunctional

traits, esp relating to my childhood, in the hope that they will

remember how weird I really was. I hope to throw it all in their face

and challenge them to explain it as a whole.

I had a very big problem with crying. I would get upset very easily,

start to cry and then spend half an hour trying my very, very best to

stop crying. I realised that the initial reason was not the same

reason that fuelled my tears. Maybe it was my anger with myself.

After a few years I got so angry with myself that I promised not to

cry again. And I didn't, which also became a problem. So I wondered if

all of this was good ammo for my list.

Anas

January 4, 2004

I had the same problem...

We should add this to the put-down list (I forgot who was keeping it).

January 4, 2004

I had a very big problem with crying. I would get upset very easily,

start to cry and then spend half an hour trying my very, very best to

stop crying. I realised that the initial reason was not the same

reason that fuelled my tears. Maybe it was my anger with myself.

After a few years I got so angry with myself that I promised not to

cry again. And I didn't, which also became a problem. So I wondered if

all of this was good ammo for my list.

Anas

***************

Well, it sounds like extreme adolescent problems to me. Id say crying

is better than conciously not crying.

Gareth.

January 4, 2004

This message from gareth arched across the cosmos:

>Well, it sounds like extreme adolescent problems to me. Id say crying

>is better than conciously not crying.

I agree.

I've been trying to learn how to *not* fight crying, as I'd forced myself

to squelch the urge a long time ago, and I think that the built-up pain

hasn't been very good for me. I would cry easily, and I do start to, but

then I fight it by silently verbally abusing myself into being so hateful

towards myself that I shut my feelings off. :-(

My AC partner cries quite easily, otoh... I admire him a great deal for

being brave enough to cry, not just as a person in general but especially

because he's male and I realize that members of his gender are still

heavily discouraged from crying for any reason, around anybody or even

alone. If I can't do that as a " strong woman " even around my partner, I

can't even begin to imagine being male in American society and being strong

enough to cry (or have a sobbing meltdown) at work or otherwise in

public. The risk of ridicule from gender-bigoted idiots, let alone the

memories of growing up being sneered at, must be immense.

I was shocked to find after so long that it's *harder* to let myself cry

around people, even him. He is trying to teach/convince me that it is OK

to show sensitivity/emotion, but it's hard to learn... I start fearing

(from experience with others, including my ex) that he will call me names

or otherwise indicate I am weak, though I know that he wouldn't do either

of those things. I've been slowly grasping that it's safe during visits,

just because I keep having crying meltdowns where I can't control the

tears, and he comforts/calms me gently rather than being nasty like other

people have been in the past.

Our species does disgust me at times, and the " no crying " rule is one of

the particularly " sick " ways it does it.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

January 4, 2004

> I had a very big problem with crying. I would get upset very easily,

> start to cry and then spend half an hour trying my very, very best to

> stop crying. I realised that the initial reason was not the same

> reason that fuelled my tears. Maybe it was my anger with myself.

> After a few years I got so angry with myself that I promised not to

> cry again. And I didn't, which also became a problem. So I wondered if

> all of this was good ammo for my list.

> ***************

> Well, it sounds like extreme adolescent problems to me. Id say crying

> is better than conciously not crying.

I always, from childhood, had a " problem " with crying. In that I

would cry uncontrollably at inconvenient times apparently. The

weirdest thing to me was that if other kids were teasing me, and I

started crying, I would *get in trouble for crying*. Yet one time a

girl hit me, and when I tried to tell a teacher, *she* cried, and the

teacher said " How could she have done that? Can't you see she's

crying? " And I was always accused of being a crybaby or crying too

much, but when other (NT) girls cried it was always taken very

differently.

I continued to cry a lot but had almost a phobia around crying after

awhile because of how many bad things used to go along with it. (My

dad in particular -- in childhood, not recently -- used to do very

overloading things to me to try to get me to stop crying, and used to

yell at me to " quit blubbering " , and the sheer overload of the emotion

and noise sent me into this shrieking terrified state that I have

rarely approached since, so that certainly backfired.)

Sometime in the past couple years my dad told me that in childhood I

used to randomly start screaming and crying " for no reason " and be

completely inconsolable. I'm *guessing* this was either overload or a

reaction to cumulative abuse, and I'm not sure which. He insisted on

differentiating it from my brother (also autistic) and his

inconsolable crying, but his differentiation didn't sound very

convincing at all.

I seem to have had a lot of the same training around " not crying " as

males typically get, and I'm not entirely sure why except that there

must have been something about the *way* I cried that made people

disapprove of it as much as they disapprove of it in male children.

It didn't stop me from crying, but it made me very, very ashamed of

crying and made me try to cry only in private. (I've only been

not-afraid of crying in front of people in the past couple years, and

even that isn't absolute.)

January 4, 2004

> Our species does disgust me at times, and the " no crying " rule is one of

> the particularly " sick " ways it does it.

If the " no crying " rule is merely sick, then what is " stop crying before I

give you something to cry about " ?

____________________

" I'm easily confused. It's part of my boyish charm. "

-- Kaiden Fox

January 4, 2004

> I was shocked to find after so long that it's *harder* to let

> myself cry around people, even him. He is trying to teach/convince

> me that it is OK to show sensitivity/emotion, but it's hard to

> learn... I start fearing (from experience with others, including

> my ex) that he will call me names or otherwise indicate I am weak,

> though I know that he wouldn't do either of those things. I've

> been slowly grasping that it's safe during visits, just because I keep

> having crying meltdowns where I can't control the tears, and he

> comforts/calms me gently rather than being nasty like other people

> have been in the past.

That's unfortunately very much what it's like for me. I generally

either got called weak, melodramatic, manipulative, or childish for

crying, and got punished for it. (Manipulative is the weirdest

because I *cannot* cry on demand.) And my ex also didn't help in

those matters (anything I cried about, he mostly said " deal with it "

or " Look, you didn't come with a crazy girlfriend manual, okay? " )

January 4, 2004

I've been working with that quite a lot over the past few years.

From late childhood, up until only about two years ago, it was

simply impossible for me to do in the presence of others. It has

always been possible for me to cry while alone, most especially

when moved by music ( " Turn of the Century " by Yes, for

example). But rarely did I feel this was motivated by my own

grief---I always had other " explanations " for what I was feeling,

due to the iron-fisted injunctions against " self-pity " under which I

grew up. Crying in the presence of others was not just a

no-no---it was a no-can-do.

But that has changed to some extent. Before, I was simply

unable to access the grief while in the presence of others. But

having spent much of the past five years exploring my own

emotional issues in considerable depth, I find I am often able to

" choose " grief, if the conditions are right and depending on who

I'm with. Then, when I got emotionally " broadsided " in April of

'02, I was fortunate enough to have an acquaintance who actually

welcomed my all-out display of grief, if only for a short time. This

showed me that it was possible for me to be in a mode of full

emotional authenticity even in my " weakest " state, given that I

was in the right company.

For the year that followed, I cried pretty much every day, and it

was only after moving back to Missouri that it stopped altogether.

In fact, I can't help but be a little suspicious of that. My feelings

about what happened haven't changed much, they're just harder

to access (except the resentment), and I can't help but wonder if

it's due in part to the old knowledge and fear that male grief is far

less tolerated here. If that's the case, and I'm sure it's at least

partly true, then it's just one more aspect of the local culture that I

don't need. I've got problems enough without being alienated

from my own emotions.

On the other hand, I have done a lot of healing, and now that my

parents have " come around " , so to speak, in their view of me, I

don't feel nearly as alone as I always have in the past.

Unfortunately, that makes very little difference with regard to

facing the " practical " issues of my future---I still feel pretty

helpless and hopeless most of the time, it seems I'm just a little

more detached from those feelings now. And, as ironic as it may

seem to some, I'm really not comfortable with that at all.

It's like I need something to have a good wail about, or I begin to

wonder if I'm really alive. Hmmm...

:-\

--DKM

> This message from gareth arched across the cosmos:

> >Well, it sounds like extreme adolescent problems to me. Id

say crying

> >is better than conciously not crying.

>

> I agree.

>

> I've been trying to learn how to *not* fight crying, as I'd forced

myself

> to squelch the urge a long time ago, and I think that the built-up

pain

> hasn't been very good for me. I would cry easily, and I do start

to, but

> then I fight it by silently verbally abusing myself into being so

hateful

> towards myself that I shut my feelings off. :-(

>

> My AC partner cries quite easily, otoh... I admire him a great

deal for

> being brave enough to cry, not just as a person in general but

especially

> because he's male and I realize that members of his gender

are still

> heavily discouraged from crying for any reason, around

anybody or even

> alone. If I can't do that as a " strong woman " even around my

partner, I

> can't even begin to imagine being male in American society

and being strong

> enough to cry (or have a sobbing meltdown) at work or

otherwise in

> public. The risk of ridicule from gender-bigoted idiots, let alone

the

> memories of growing up being sneered at, must be immense.

>

> I was shocked to find after so long that it's *harder* to let

myself cry

> around people, even him. He is trying to teach/convince me

that it is OK

> to show sensitivity/emotion, but it's hard to learn... I start

fearing

> (from experience with others, including my ex) that he will call

me names

> or otherwise indicate I am weak, though I know that he wouldn't

do either

> of those things. I've been slowly grasping that it's safe during

visits,

> just because I keep having crying meltdowns where I can't

control the

> tears, and he comforts/calms me gently rather than being

nasty like other

> people have been in the past.

>

> Our species does disgust me at times, and the " no crying " rule

is one of

> the particularly " sick " ways it does it.

>

> DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

January 4, 2004

>

> > Our species does disgust me at times, and the " no crying "

rule is one of

> > the particularly " sick " ways it does it.

>

> If the " no crying " rule is merely sick, then what is " stop crying

before I

> give you something to cry about " ?

>

In my manual, that's referred to as " emotional abuse, criminal

grade " .

--DKM

January 4, 2004

> I've been trying to learn how to *not* fight crying, as I'd forced

> myself to squelch the urge a long time ago, and I think that the

> built-up pain hasn't been very good for me. I would cry easily,

> and I do start to, but then I fight it by silently verbally abusing

> myself into being so hateful towards myself that I shut my

> feelings off. :-(

This isn't quite the same thing, but I just remembered something that

used to happen a lot. (So if this seems unrelated, it's because it's

a tangent, I'm up late, and I need something to do, so I'm writing

about it. I *don't* think it's an autistic thing, although there may

be a fair amount of us that get driven to this state eventually. It's

basically a discussion of PTSD, so skip it if you don't want ramblings

and analysis on prior misery. I'm having a really bad night that way

and can't sleep, so I'm at least trying to make use of it.)

There was a time in my life when I was experiencing a whole lot of

horrible things, pretty much 24/7, no escape at all, and no escape in

sight. And a lot of things happened that I logically thought *should*

make me cry.

But I couldn't cry at all. I tried to do it, and there was nothing

there at all, not even the urge to cry (except as a sense that I

really should be crying with the things that were going on). I

decided there was something terribly wrong with me for not crying, and

I tried to fake crying by rubbing spit on my cheeks and screaming.

But I couldn't feel anything and I couldn't cry, and then the attempt

to fake crying made me feel even more ashamed of myself, and even more

sure that I was basically this rotten monster.

The weird thing was that the rest of the time I had hated crying, and

during this period I hated not being able to cry. I kind of

oscillated between " I am bad because this is a situation that should

make people cry and I am not crying " and " I am bad because the reason

I am not crying is because this is not a situation that should make

people cry and therefore I should not be upset but since I'm upset

then I'm bad. " This sort of thing was reinforced by people around me

insulting people for both displays of emotion and lack of displays of

emotion.

I really wish someone had explained PTSD (or any equivalent and useful

model) to me at the time in a context I could understand, because I

was certainly around people who were at least in theory trained in

that kind of thing. At the time I came up with a whole lot of

explanations that were rather terrifying.

The only problem is I don't know if any explanation would have worked,

because I remember someone telling me that I'd been going through some

really awful stuff (and comparing it to prisoner-of-war situations)

and I kept reacting with something like, " No I haven't. Nothing

mind-blowingly awful is going on, it's just me screwing my own life

up. I don't even know how you could draw those comparisons, because

nothing like that is going on here. " And I wasn't lying -- I had no

clue how you could compare the two situations at all, despite the fact

that objectively they were similar.

My standards were pretty low back then, though -- it took something

both horrible and immediate to even register on my awful-meter, and

even things like deaths weren't always registering. Which I think is

part of why I wasn't crying; my standards for " good " were so low that

I don't think most people would accept them at all.

This, by the way, relates to the Stockholm syndrome discussion: I

sincerely believed they were wonderful people for restraining me

face-up, allowing me to eat from time to time, and failing to kill me,

and they *treated* these things as privileges. I thought *I* must be

a horribly ungrateful person not to enjoy the life they were giving

me. Things like being let out with the other patients to do the

single-file outdoor walks or go to the cafeteria were things that at

that point I had no more conception of doing, and I *knew* it was

because I was the " bad " , " disruptive " , " immature " one, and not someone

who even deserved to cry because I'd brought everything on myself.

But these people were of course wonderful for letting me live, and

letting me do anything else they let me do.

I think I really cried the least when the worst things were happening,

and there's a long stretch where I barely, if ever, cried at all,

probably the least I've ever cried in my life. The thing nobody

warned me about was that once I got safely out of the system, off the

drugs, and away from everything, I'd have nights like tonight where I

cry *randomly* about these things, with no warning. The people who

had to tell me that weren't trained in psychology, but were other

autistic people. (I read something recently about how they're finding

that training in psychology doesn't render people much more

understanding of other people than the average layperson, and I think

I probably could have told them that -- the people who have understood

me best and taught me the most about how to live my life have not been

professionals, and I've seen and sincerely tried to utilize a lot of

professionals.)

There was also a weird, seductive feeling of invincibility that was

frequent at the time and that I hope I never come near again. I think

it was more a desperation thing combined with a " What could you

possibly do to me now? " thing, which definitely resulted in the kind

of behavior that most people don't want to be around. I'm not sure I

want to know what they made of *that*, because it was definitely one

of my low points in the scheme of morality (among other things I'd

decided I was dreaming the whole thing and could do whatever I wanted

and that the people didn't really exist, and you can see where that

could go).

The weird thing is that the lack of crying thing still happens

sometimes. The other night I was looking through a bunch of

parent-oriented message boards (I posted what I wrote at the time to

another list) and I could feel *nothing*. It was the same thing -- I

knew I should feel something at the stuff I was reading, but there was

not much there, just kind of a blank, disappointed feeling.

And that pretty much continued until tonight. Which is what's going

on now. In part that my standards have gone up -- I no longer accept

either imprisonment *or* flashbacks as inevitable. Thus, the threat

of either one of those things is much scarier to me than when either

one, the other, or both were so much part of life that I didn't think

about them not being there any more than I used to think about going

to the cafeteria or being on " level three star " .

And tonight I'm getting pretty freaked out, doing the random crying

thing (took me completely by surprise when it happened), and being

scared of what could happen. I'm back now where I know rationally

that nobody's going to beat down my door and take me anywhere, but a

couple hours ago I couldn't convince myself of that at all. (Someone

*is* going to knock on my door from a taxicab company in a few hours,

though, so I *wish* I could sleep.)

I'm hoping this will be brief, because I've got no desire whatsoever

for another prolonged period of random mental time-jumping. And I

know a small amount of that must have been going on tonight, because I

couldn't convince myself earlier that I lived in my own apartment and

that nobody was currently watching me or even capable of knowing the

emotional state I was in. And I really don't like that in-between

state where my mental processes are clearly superimposed from another

time but I can still technically see what's going on in this time.

(Last time this happened my aide came in and I couldn't talk to her at

all because all the misplaced-time-travel thoughts I had were telling

me that telling someone what was going on in my head was too risky.

And I'm having a little trouble with this email because while I know

in my head that it's simply a factual account of how I felt and what I

was doing to the best of my recollection, I've still got Lois and Pam

in my head telling me that to discuss things like this is a horrible

and manipulative thing to do.)

January 4, 2004

This message from alfamanda arched across the cosmos:

>That's unfortunately very much what it's like for me. I generally

>either got called weak, melodramatic, manipulative, or childish for

>crying, and got punished for it. (Manipulative is the weirdest

>because I *cannot* cry on demand.)

Yes, exactly what I have been accused of, by people all around me and by my

ex while we were together. I couldn't figure out how it is that I was

being " manipulative " by crying if I was hit, or if I saw (or read or

thought of or was told) something deeply upsetting. I never was

manipulative to actually get what I wanted, so why would I be

" manipulative " if I became distraught at something genuinely disturbing?

> And my ex also didn't help in

>those matters (anything I cried about, he mostly said " deal with it "

>or " Look, you didn't come with a crazy girlfriend manual, okay? " )

Sounds like we had near-identical ex'es. I become upset at a lot of the

" traditional " autistic things, and when that happened, he would just tell

me to grow up, stop trying to be controlling/manipulative, and so

forth...he ultimately said I was deeply emotionally abusive because of my

crying in particular. When we were together in the same room, if I started

crying, he would do various things to force me to shut down -- whole-body

restraint so I would exhaust myself being rigid (I didn't like him holding

me, unlike P), pushing french-kisses on me, or asking me repeatedly

something like " are you upset? " and when I didn't answer the way he liked

(often because I was too upset to even comprehend I should lie), he would

hit me in the face/head with a pillow and shout " wrong answer! " then ask

again, repeating the cycle until I was too tired to *be* upset.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

January 4, 2004

> This message from gareth arched across the cosmos:

> >Well, it sounds like extreme adolescent problems to me. Id say

crying

> >is better than conciously not crying.

>

> I agree.

********

Cool. Im going to go get a brew (thats coffe in american) and respond

to the rest of your post. Im not sure what im going to say, which is

unusual for me..... (on list0

********

>

> I've been trying to learn how to *not* fight crying, as I'd forced

myself

> to squelch the urge a long time ago, and I think that the built-up

pain

> hasn't been very good for me.

**********

Uhhu, me too. I used to *cry* myself to sleep with my teddy through

the first years of secondary school even, wishing my parents would

walk in and find me.

*********

I would cry easily, and I do start to, but

> then I fight it by silently verbally abusing myself into being so

hateful

> towards myself that I shut my feelings off. :-(

**********

Uhhu, hmm. I have a tendancy to not know how i feel cause my brain is

going into overdrive trying to figure out how im *supposed* to feel,

like a semi survival thing, so what i feel gets squashed.

**********

>

> My AC partner cries quite easily, otoh... I admire him a great deal

for

> being brave enough to cry, not just as a person in general but

especially

> because he's male and I realize that members of his gender are

still

> heavily discouraged from crying for any reason, around anybody or

even

> alone.

***********

Yes, this is true. Im not even competent at explaining verbally why i

feel bad if and when i do, its a part of me that was strongly

discouraged. Anger is " good " as a replacement, encouraged even.

***********

If I can't do that as a " strong woman " even around my partner, I

> can't even begin to imagine being male in American society and

being strong

> enough to cry (or have a sobbing meltdown) at work or otherwise in

> public.

*************

Well, wouldnt a natural woman be crying, not really a " strong woman " ,

or am i missinterperating?

************

The risk of ridicule from gender-bigoted idiots, let alone the

> memories of growing up being sneered at, must be immense.

*************

Hmm, yes. I thought " oh, its such a shame that people do that " then i

realised that i may well do the same if other people were around.

Maybe not, but i did detect the possibility in myself, like an

ingrained automatic reaction. Like, make fun of somebody for it. I

dont think i would, and i never have except for at school...... but,

there you are.

************

>

> I was shocked to find after so long that it's *harder* to let

myself cry

> around people, even him. He is trying to teach/convince me that it

is OK

> to show sensitivity/emotion, but it's hard to learn... I start

fearing

> (from experience with others, including my ex) that he will call me

names

> or otherwise indicate I am weak, though I know that he wouldn't do

either

> of those things.

****************

I wonder why it has gotten harder? maybe you are less upset so want

to cry less?

****************

I've been slowly grasping that it's safe during visits,

> just because I keep having crying meltdowns where I can't control

the

> tears, and he comforts/calms me gently rather than being nasty like

other

> people have been in the past.

****************

I remember once juli had a melt down. It was horrible to see her like

that, i felt so small. Like crying and making screech noises, she

was. I come to quite a shut down in my head at times, but have never

done something like that.

****************

>

> Our species does disgust me at times, and the " no crying " rule is

one of

> the particularly " sick " ways it does it.

*****************

Yes, it is a dumb one. I suspect people think of me as sexist, but i

believe quite strongly that there are large inherant differences in

the sexes that should be naturally encouraged, but these external

rules are not part of any gender difference, they are unnatural, and

harmfull.

******************

>

> DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

*******************

Gareth. :-)

January 4, 2004

Sounds like we had near-identical ex'es. I become upset at a lot of

the

" traditional " autistic things, and when that happened, he would just

tell

me to grow up, stop trying to be controlling/manipulative, and so

forth...he ultimately said I was deeply emotionally abusive because

of my

crying in particular. When we were together in the same room, if I

started

crying, he would do various things to force me to shut down -- whole-

body

restraint so I would exhaust myself being rigid (I didn't like him

holding

me, unlike P), pushing french-kisses on me, or asking me repeatedly

something like " are you upset? " and when I didn't answer the way he

liked

(often because I was too upset to even comprehend I should lie), he

would

hit me in the face/head with a pillow and shout " wrong answer! " then

ask

again, repeating the cycle until I was too tired to *be* upset.

DeGraf ~*~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

****************

Ok; *Why did you go out with this guy!!!!!!!!!!* ?

I mean seriously, its probably this thing that most angers me about

women; They go out with men that treat them bad, then complain about

it to people like me who only try to be good to them, but wouldnt

look twice at us in a sexual sense. I know you now have Parrish, who

is presumably a good guy by all accounts, but so many women just keep

going with the bad guys, which

1) means the bad guys have no reason to stop, indeed, they are

rewarded for their misdeeds in ways that i can only dream of

2) the women still gets abused.

Maybe im being to logical about all this, one common reason i hear

is " you cant control who you love " but it all seems so dumb to me.

Gareth.

January 4, 2004

> Maybe im being to logical about all this, one common reason i hear

> is " you cant control who you love " but it all seems so dumb to me.

>

> Gareth.

I have no clue why love is so mystified. We are taught that hate is a

choice, that hate has causes and factors and is not mysterious and is not

too difficult to overcome. Yet love... love is not a choice. Love is

something that just happens, like a bird shitting on your car. Sure you can

go looking for love, or bird shit, but it's not something you can control

because it's so damned mysterious.

I can't complain about women who love assholes, simply because I've loved

assholes myself. Perhaps there is something inate about having to work for

affection, rather than having it given freely. I changed my mind about the

whole thing and absolutely jettisoned romance after living with a sociopath.

This woman is so sadistic that she *sought out* someone I hated just so that

she could move in with him to *annoy* me.

____________________

" I'm easily confused. It's part of my boyish charm. "

-- Kaiden Fox

January 4, 2004

>

> > Maybe im being to logical about all this, one common reason i hear

> > is " you cant control who you love " but it all seems so dumb to me.

> >

> > Gareth.

>

> I have no clue why love is so mystified. We are taught that hate

is a

> choice, that hate has causes and factors and is not mysterious and

is not

> too difficult to overcome. Yet love... love is not a choice. Love

is

> something that just happens, like a bird shitting on your car.

Sure you can

> go looking for love, or bird shit, but it's not something you can

control

> because it's so damned mysterious.

>

> I can't complain about women who love assholes, simply because I've

loved

> assholes myself. Perhaps there is something inate about having to

work for

> affection, rather than having it given freely. I changed my mind

about the

> whole thing and absolutely jettisoned romance after living with a

sociopath.

> This woman is so sadistic that she *sought out* someone I hated

just so that

> she could move in with him to *annoy* me.

***********

Oh, i thought you were happy with somebody now? i hope nothing went

wrong. I really like your birdshit metaphor, may i " steal " it please?

All the best,

Gareth.

>

> ____________________

> " I'm easily confused. It's part of my boyish charm. "

> -- Kaiden Fox

January 4, 2004

> Oh, i thought you were happy with somebody now? i hope nothing went

> wrong. I really like your birdshit metaphor, may i " steal " it please?

Stealing birdshit? What a concept... go for it.

I am fine and dandy, now. I was just bitching about the past. I do that,

sometimes. I perseverate on how much I would enjoy throwing acid on my

ex-girlfriend's face and watching her skin melt off. Yeah, I'm a vengeful

bastard - me and Timberlake should get together sometime.

January 4, 2004

>

> > Oh, i thought you were happy with somebody now? i hope nothing

went

> > wrong. I really like your birdshit metaphor, may i " steal " it

please?

>

> Stealing birdshit? What a concept... go for it.

>

> I am fine and dandy, now. I was just bitching about the past. I

do that,

> sometimes. I perseverate on how much I would enjoy throwing acid

on my

> ex-girlfriend's face and watching her skin melt off. Yeah, I'm a

vengeful

> bastard - me and Timberlake should get together sometime.

***********

doncha mean eminem? what has justin timberlake done? glad to hear

your current relationship is ok. What job do you do? im sorry, ive

forgotten now, how rude of me.

Gareth.

January 4, 2004

Hello to all, especially those who've written on this thread,

I joined this listserv because although I've never been diagnosed (I'm 49), I

have a 6 year old daughter who is high-functioning autistic, and I recognize

myself in lots of her symptoms.

Since joining this listserv and reading many of the posts, especially this

thread on " Cry Baby " , I feel a very strong need to offer a truely heartfelt and

loving virtual hug to all. I mean this in the spirit of empathy, so I hope

noone takes this the wrong way. It makes me very sad to realize how much pain

has been suffered by so many gentle souls, although I have learned a lot from

reading the many posts. Not only have I learned a lot about myself, but because

so many of you have been so forthcoming about problems you've faced, I feel I've

learned a lot that can help my daughter especially.

I wish all of you much love and more gentle handling from the world than you've

experienced so far.

Elaine

Re: Cry baby