Re: 5th Commandment: Honor thy Father & Mother

[Guest guest]

I've struggled a lot with this issue. How could I not? They throw it in my face

every chance they get. Maybe that's why I've always had the feeling I might die

young? But I'm still here for now ...

When I was looking up the word " honor " to see what it really does mean, I saw

that " respect " is a synonym, so I looked up that word. My favorite part of the

definition is the part that says: " to refrain from intruding upon or

interfering, as in respecting boundaries or privacy. " This is something I feel I

do with them, and do quite well, but it's something they’ve never done with me!

Also, later in that same passage, Ephesians 6 (verse 4), it says " Fathers, do

not exasperate your children. " So, I figure, they don't uphold their part of the

deal, so why should I worry about mine?

I actually pointed this out to nada and fada the last time they tried to give me

a face-to-face " biblical " intervention, and they both got really defensive,

saying " That's not what that means! " ; )

They're just totally in their little alternate reality. They can't even see the

truth.

Society says we should honor our parents because they raised us, but, really,

society doesn't have a clue, for the most part, what it's like to be raised by a

BP parent. I know, just the few non-KO's I've talked with about this stuff look

at me like I've got the plague or something - or like I'm just lying to them

completely. They have NO IDEA! Then, when they finally do believe me, they

totally understand why I wouldn't want to call my mother every day or see my

parents as often as I can ...

I think " honor " HAS to mean something different to KOs than it does to other

people just because our family relationships are so different.

I

5th Commandment: Honor thy Father & Mother

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and

> when it

> came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

> fell

> in.

>

> It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still

> are

> obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their

> care --

> you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> decline, etc.

>

> I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> thing in God's eyes.

>

> Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

> parents,

> so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled

> in to

> Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

>

> The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving

> the

> door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

> for

> regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing

> from the

> book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did

> to

> you.

>

> My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to

> get a

> pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when

> appropriate --

> Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how

> I'll

> relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing

> their game.

>

> So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

>

> Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

>

> -Kyla

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow -- I can't tell you how much I appreciate your reply. I had not

heard of that verse in Ephesians -- It makes sense, though. Surely

there's guidance for loving parents besides " spare the rod spoil the

child! "

I feel a lot better -- and by leaving the door open, I am respecting

my parents. I don't screech at them, and my replies have been

respectful.

I know the Bible says a lot about not being selfish, and a lot of us

are the products of selfish people who didn't give us our full due

as God-created human beings. Same with my nada -- she's the

product of a home where the father indulged his need to rage and her

mother abandoned the four children through alcohol. Gee, nothing

selfish about any of that, is there?

Even something so simple as looking up the meanings of the words

helped. Thanks so much for your reply -- it has given me a lot to

think about.

Hugs,

Kyla

>

> I've struggled a lot with this issue. How could I not? They throw

it in my face every chance they get. Maybe that's why I've always

had the feeling I might die young? But I'm still here for now ...

>

> When I was looking up the word " honor " to see what it really does

mean, I saw that " respect " is a synonym, so I looked up that word.

My favorite part of the definition is the part that says: " to

refrain from intruding upon or interfering, as in respecting

boundaries or privacy. " This is something I feel I do with them, and

do quite well, but it's something they've never done with me!

>

> Also, later in that same passage, Ephesians 6 (verse 4), it

says " Fathers, do not exasperate your children. " So, I figure, they

don't uphold their part of the deal, so why should I worry about

mine?

> I actually pointed this out to nada and fada the last time they

tried to give me a face-to-face " biblical " intervention, and they

both got really defensive, saying " That's not what that means! " ; )

> They're just totally in their little alternate reality. They can't

even see the truth.

>

> Society says we should honor our parents because they raised us,

but, really, society doesn't have a clue, for the most part, what

it's like to be raised by a BP parent. I know, just the few non-KO's

I've talked with about this stuff look at me like I've got the

plague or something - or like I'm just lying to them completely.

They have NO IDEA! Then, when they finally do believe me, they

totally understand why I wouldn't want to call my mother every day

or see my parents as often as I can ...

>

> I think " honor " HAS to mean something different to KOs than it

does to other people just because our family relationships are so

different.

> I

>

> 5th Commandment: Honor thy Father &

Mother

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> > I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and

> > when it

> > came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

> > fell

> > in.

> >

> > It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still

> > are

> > obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their

> > care --

> > you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> > decline, etc.

> >

> > I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> > thing in God's eyes.

> >

> > Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

> > parents,

> > so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> > events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled

> > in to

> > Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

> >

> > The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving

> > the

> > door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

> > for

> > regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing

> > from the

> > book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did

> > to

> > you.

> >

> > My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to

> > get a

> > pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when

> > appropriate --

> > Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how

> > I'll

> > relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing

> > their game.

> >

> > So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

> >

> > Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I read the same book, and the way I understood it, was I was

honoring them by not allowing them to promote hatred, meanness, etc.

on my or my family. I am not bible savvy, but one time I

said, " what happened to honoring thy children. " Someone told me it

does say this in the bible, but I haven't looked. If this be the

case, then I am helping them to not sin. I don't have the book in

front of me, and you are right the chapter is a long one, but if I

remember it is like the next page of the chapter halfway down the

page. I loved this book, and it helped me in the " In Gods Eyes " how

will this look to go NC. I, like yourself send gifts at holidays,

cards, at birthdays, etc. I just do not call, nor accept calls.

All of my packages and cards that come here from them are checked by

my husband to make sure there is no guilt. Many have told me I will

feel tons of regret if they die tomorrow, and I consistently journal

to make sure I do not have any regrets. I am pretty sure at this

point that I don't, but until you have to walk in those shoes, I

guess I won't know til then. For now, my life is peaceful, quiet,

and functional, full of unconditional love, and healing. When nada

i in my space it is fighting, chaotic, sick, demoralizing, guilt,

etc. To me, the healthy way is how we are doing it, and I believe

God would respect that...Just my thoughts on the book.

erbussmom

>

> I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and when

it

> came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

fell

> in.

>

> It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still are

> obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their care -

-

> you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> decline, etc.

>

> I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> thing in God's eyes.

>

> Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

parents,

> so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

> Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

>

> The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving the

> door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

for

> regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from

the

> book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did to

> you.

>

> My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to get

a

> pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when appropriate -

-

> Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how I'll

> relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their

game.

>

> So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

>

> Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

Lovely thoughts -- and true! I remember when my fada was trying to

draw me into an e-mail argument (so he could show how much I've hurt

them and how wrong I was) and after he laid out all the guilt-

inducing wrath, I simply replied " I'm sure that's how you see it.

We'll just have to have our separate views. " And that's all I

wrote.

I think the silence spoke volumes about how I was now handling them

differently, and I believe it was also respectful, because I didn't

go into the ring for a few rounds with them. I walked away from the

fight, and respectfully allowed him his view.

And when I saw them at my daughter's play, I was " miss hostess " and

unfailingly warm and polite. I don't go around town badmouthing

them -- although I do unload here, and with a couple of good, dear

friends.

You're right. I'm starting to see this in a whole new light. I

don't think I'll feel regret when they're gone. I'm looking at them

with eyes wide open, and I'm not responsible for their miseries or

for the poor state of our relationship. When they're gone, I won't

carry guilt for something that never was.

Thank you.

-Kyla

> >

> > I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and

when

> it

> > came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

> fell

> > in.

> >

> > It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still

are

> > obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their

care -

> -

> > you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> > decline, etc.

> >

> > I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> > thing in God's eyes.

> >

> > Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

> parents,

> > so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> > events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

> > Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

> >

> > The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving

the

> > door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

> for

> > regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from

> the

> > book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did

to

> > you.

> >

> > My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to

get

> a

> > pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when

appropriate -

> -

> > Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how

I'll

> > relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their

> game.

> >

> > So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

> >

> > Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just to add more more 2-cents on the matter...

I'm a Christian and have often struggled with the

" Honor your parents " command- mainly because my nada

reminds me that I have no love for family and no honor

when I won't come down and take care of her.

I have sought guidance from ministers who are also

counselors and who have a lot of experience in dealing

with mental health. I think I keep looking for someone

to tell me I'm being a bad daughter by not " honoring "

my nada because I don't do everything she demands.

I have been awestruck that ministers have advised me

that by catering to her, I am enabling her behavior

and is not a good thing.

One minister has a mother who is bipolar and explained

to me that God made covenants with the Israelites in

the old testament and promised to be with them and

guide them as long as they obeyed and followed him but

once the Israelites broke that covenant, God was no

longer obligated to watch over them. He said it's

similar with our parents. There is the covenant of

" honoring " them but if your parent breaks the covenant

by being abusive, we as children are not obligated to

keep that parent/ child covenant.

I do try to honor my nada by working to forgive her

and not wish her ill and praying for her, and I think

God understands that we're not able to have that ideal

family relationship when the parent is abusive.

thanks for everyone else's comments also!

--- Recovering Non-BP wrote:

> Hi Kerrie, Fresabird, Kyla, erbuss_mom, Mishael, and

> All,

>

> The amount of wisdom, experience, strength and hope

> here on this subject of “Honor thy parents” is

> breathtaking for me. It’s the first time I ever

> heard

> a group of people like us KOs, at least some of whom

> feel a strong connection with a Higher Power they

> call

> God, talk about this subject at length, so

> articulately, with such insight, and showing as much

> thought as you all have. I am in awe and gratitude

> for all your shares. What a miracle and a privilege

> it is for me to be able to hear your discussion.

> What’s more, the spiritual (not religious) side of

> life, including as a KO, is one of my favorite

> topics.

>

> Wouldn’t it be nice if all those parents who like to

> quote things like " spare the rod, spoil the child! "

> instead focused upon " Fathers, do not exasperate

> your

> children " ? Indeed, as Fresabird wrote, “how better

> to

> honor them than heal and grow, and make a good life

> for me and my children? By being the person I was

> meant to be,” and that, as Kerrie wrote, “I hope

> some

> day my children will understand this- that the best

> way I can honor my bp mother is to not have anything

> to do with her.” As Kyla wrote, “I won't carry

> guilt

> for something that never was. As Mishael wrote,

> “Society says we should honor our parents because

> they

> raised us, but, really, society doesn't have a clue,

> for the most part, what it's like to be raised by a

> BP

> parent.” Amen to all of the above. I also agree

> with

> erbuss_mom that “the healthy way is how we are doing

> it, and I believe God would respect that.”

>

> I believe that my Higher Power has looked upon my

> parents and said to them something like, “You’ve

> mistreated your son. I told you not to do that.

> That’s not what I put you there for,” and that my

> Higher Power says to me something like, “You didn’t

> deserve to deal with any of the things they’re

> responsible for. I’m going to help you heal. Your

> job is to keep going. Move on.” I believe that my

> Higher Power knows and supports me in the idea that

> I

> didn’t cause, can’t control and can’t cure them, and

> that I am powerless over them.

>

> Some people would say that, about having to be NC/RC

> and any concerns about it, to “let go and let God .

> .

> . as we understood Him.” I believe you’ve all

> touched

> very eloquently and poignantly on this most delicate

> and powerful subject. Thanks.

>

> One Non-BP Recovering Man

>

>

>

> --- fresabird@... wrote:

>

> > Evidently my 4 year old knows where the " send "

> > button is :^)

> >

> > My take on the " Honor thy parents " is that my

> > parents do not deserve

> > the title. I choose to honor all of the people

> who

> > filled the role my

> > parents should have taken in bits and pieces. All

> > those little bits

> > and pieces added up to give me enough hope and

> light

> > to make it to

> > adulthood, and begin to heal. I honor my paternal

> > grandparents who

> > loved me unconditionally when my parents did not.

> I

> > honor my teachers,

> > and the parents of my friends. I honor all of the

> > people who have

> > helped me as an adult - especially those women who

> > have been surrogate

> > mothers to me as I became a mother myself.

> >

> > My father parented me in one way - he taught me a

> > great work ethic, how

> > to be a responsible professional and work hard,

> and

> > how to manage

> > money. I honor him by using those tools. But

> > otherwise, my parents

> > did not give me any of the things they were

> > obligated to give me when

> > they decided to be parents. They did not love me

> > unconditionally, or

> > in my mothers case love me at all. They did not

> > protect me. They did

> > not provide for me the most basic essentials.

> They

> > were not really

> > parents.

> >

> > I saw a quote maybe here? or on another board

> about

> > what makes a

> > parent. The gest of it - two people in the back

> > seat of a chevy may

> > make a baby, but that does not make them parents.

> >

> > So " honor thy parents " to me means honor those

> > people who filled that

> > role, no matter who they were. In many cases I am

> > honoring them by my

> > life now, even though they have no idea of the

> > impact they had on my

> > life. It's that drop in the pond phenomenon. By

> > being kind to a

> > child, they have affected my whole life and the

> life

> > of my children.

> > So how better to honor them than heal and grow,

> and

> > make a good life

> > for me and my children? By being the person I was

> > meant to be.

> >

> > Fresabird

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10

> > Commandments and when it

> > > came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I

> wasn't

> > sure where we fell

> > > in.

> > >

> > > It seemed to say that " sure, they made

> mistakes,

> > but you still are

> > > obligated to take care of them when you can, or

> > see to their care --

> > > you're supposed to extend yourself financially

> if

> > they are in

> > > decline, etc.

> > >

> > > I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I

> want

> > to do the right

> > > thing in God's eyes.

> > >

> > > Anybody have perspective on this? My T says

> > " They're your parents,

> > > so you still should invite them to birthday

> > parties and sports

> > > events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to

> > be pulled in to

> > > Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

> > >

> > > The book did say " honor " could mean praying for

> > them, leaving the

> > > door open for when they're old and frail and

> may

> > have more room for

> > > regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I

> am

> > guessing from the

> > > book that " honor " is how you define it, based

> on

> > what they did to

> > > you.

> > >

> > > My parents weren't the worst -- and even the

> bad

> > ones seem to get a

> > > pass in this book. We send them notes and cards

> > when appropriate --

> > > Right now I'm just taking some time and

> distance

> > to remap how I'll

> > > relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm

> not

> > playing their game.

> > >

> > > So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the

> > future.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts on this would be interesting to

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Kyla,

I can't speak for God or You. I know what that commandment means to me:

parents have to earn the right to be honored. Does God smile and put a gold

star next to their name in the great book when they beat you verbally til you

can't tell reality from nonreality? God gave us a mind to go with our soul, and

the emotions are the words. Just listen and see what yours says.

Greg.

5th Commandment: Honor thy Father & Mother

I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and when it

came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we fell

in.

It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still are

obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their care --

you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

decline, etc.

I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

thing in God's eyes.

Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your parents,

so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving the

door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room for

regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from the

book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did to

you.

My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to get a

pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when appropriate --

Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how I'll

relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their game.

So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

-Kyla

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

" God gave us a mind to go with our soul, and the emotions are the

words. Just listen and see what yours says. "

Thanks Greg! That's it. And our FOO skewed our ability to listen to

those words. I think a big part of healing is relearning that

language that we had at birth but that got distorted along the way.

The good thing - it's in us. We've had it all along. We just have to

relearn how to listen.

Fresabird

> Kyla,

>

> I can't speak for God or You. I know what that commandment means to

> me: parents have to earn the right to be honored. Does God smile and

> put a gold star next to their name in the great book when they beat

> you verbally til you can't tell reality from nonreality? God gave us

> a mind to go with our soul, and the emotions are the words. Just

> listen and see what yours says.

>

> Greg.

>

>

> 5th Commandment: Honor thy Father & Mother

>

> I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and when it

> came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we fell

> in.

>

> It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still are

> obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their care --

> you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> decline, etc.

>

> I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> thing in God's eyes.

>

> Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your parents,

> so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

> Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

>

> The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving the

> door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room for

> regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from the

> book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did to

> you.

>

> My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to get a

> pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when appropriate --

> Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how I'll

> relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their game.

>

> So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

>

> Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

>

> -Kyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________________________________

> _____________

> Cheap talk?

> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

> http://voice.yahoo.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Non-BP Man,

That was, once again, a really beautiful and profound post by you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Its kind of funny too b/c at the end of your post, you wrote about

NC/RC as being a kind of 'let go, let God' thing in your life and it

really triggered me in a great way. I mean to say, its the little

miracles that make life worth living and I wanted to share this w/you

as I knew you could appreciate it.

Okay, so 2006 was utterly horrible for me, but my resolution was for

it to be a nada free year, right? For the most part, it was. I stuck

to my goal even though I caved for the funeral and one other

occassion.But I realized last Christmas of 2005 the necessity of

getting her out of my life and I prayed on it long and hard and was

quite clear I wasn't wishing it or anything, but rather it was the

best move for me and my family.

Well this past fall was littered w/illness after illness and it was

really the stress of all the deathes and closure w/nada catching up

to me and the rest of my family. So I've had a lot of downtime and

shortly after Christmas, I started some hardcore cleaning. I mean

hardcore. I updated my address book after almost 10 years of not

changing address books. It was great and sad b/c some people had died

years prior and others I just lost touch w/and really, they were for

a season or a reason, but not a lifetime. But your post reminded me

of this little card I found stuck inside my address book that I've

carried w/me for at least 7 years or so and I'd totally forgotten it.

I reread it for the first time in honestly 6 or 7 years. I bought it

at the end of my college days when I was having anxiety attacks and

just a lot of KO fleas that almost immobilized me w/depression and

other sicknesses right before dh came back into my life. Wow-this

must be from 1998 then. 1997was one of the worst years in my life and

1998 was just unwinding from it and that's probably why I needed this

card to carry me through. This is what it says:

It's not ironically titled " Let Go, Let God "

" As children bring their broken toys,

with tears for us to mend,

I brought my broken dreams to God,

because He is my friend.

But then instead of leaving Him

in peace to work alone,

I hung around and tried to help,

with ways that were my own.

At last, I snatched them back again

and cried, " How can you be so slow? "

" My child " He said, " What could I do?

You never did let go. "

A major wow- aha moment going on here w/this card and your post. I

thought I just ironically found this card a week before New Year's

and here I am learning that no, that's not it at all. I bought this

card in 1998, the year after my hell year. 1997- January I drove

grandfada home after he thought he was having heart problems- needed

open bypass surgery. He's unquestionably where most of the BP issues

in the FOO stem now that I know what its all about and he always

confided in me about these secrets- he should've told his wife, nada

or auntie about his heart problems. Not me. Feb- Good friend's dad

has heart problems and now I know this guy is a total NPD and while

he does have heart failure, he's still alive and my friend has

totally put his life on hold for his parents. Its always saddened me.

March- third car wreck- hello bp trait or what. Nada never had car

wrecks, but we did b/c we never took care of ourselves or valued our

lives. My brother's accident in 1999 almost cost him his life- broke

his neck April- my aunt lost her baby during my finals week and I was

the only one she confided in as they weren't married yet- and she was

like 40 that year- come on! May-Friend problems w/my friend backing

out as a roommate at the last minute and so I went it on my own,

which was for the best, but it took years to get our friendship on

the up and up again. June- little brother's bestfriend of 7 years

killed himself two days after his 21st b-day. He was like a little

brother to me. His mom was, in retrospect, one of the worst kinds of

bps I've ever seen. She didn't even have a photo of him for the

funeral. My brother got one from his aunt. July- my

grandmother/nada's mom died after three months of cancer coming out

of remission. August- step-fada left nada for another woman after 13

years of marriage. September- company me and my cousin worked for

during the past two years announced it was going under. Everyone but

me basically got laid off- including cousin. October-bp auntie (whom

I know now is a borderline) came between cousin and I (not on nada's

side- deceased father's side) b/c she coudln't believe they'd keep me

as the receptionist while letting her daughter go and planted seeds

of betrayal in my cousin. We didn't speak for 3 years and now she's

in therapy also for these bp issues and is amazing. Nov- academic

probation from the insane summer session and possible problmes

w/financing for my next semester Dec- boyfriend of the past year

dumped me for a move to NYC-don't blame him as that year was insane

and he also got laid off from the job- but it still hurt a lot.

Anyways, as I reflect over these reasons I may have possibly bought

this card in 1998 and wanted back then to let go and let God, I didn'

have the tools. But so much of the healing I needed back then had

everything to do w/borderline issues in my life. Is it any wonder

then after a year of finally going NC w/nada and getting all these

other toxic people out of my life that I would happen upon this card

after so long? Was that God's way of saying " Finally, you let go. " A

mere 9 years.

I wouldn't have ever connected those small little spiritual dots had

you not posted this Non-BP man. Thanks so much. I really do feel like

I've learned so much about letting go and what a miracle my life is -

as well as everyone elses- including yours:)

Thanks so much for this post!

Kerrie

> >

> > > I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10

> > Commandments and when it

> > > came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't

> > sure where we fell

> > > in.

> > >

> > > It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes,

> > but you still are

> > > obligated to take care of them when you can, or

> > see to their care --

> > > you're supposed to extend yourself financially if

> > they are in

> > > decline, etc.

> > >

> > > I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want

> > to do the right

> > > thing in God's eyes.

> > >

> > > Anybody have perspective on this? My T says

> > " They're your parents,

> > > so you still should invite them to birthday

> > parties and sports

> > > events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to

> > be pulled in to

> > > Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

> > >

> > > The book did say " honor " could mean praying for

> > them, leaving the

> > > door open for when they're old and frail and may

> > have more room for

> > > regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am

> > guessing from the

> > > book that " honor " is how you define it, based on

> > what they did to

> > > you.

> > >

> > > My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad

> > ones seem to get a

> > > pass in this book. We send them notes and cards

> > when appropriate --

> > > Right now I'm just taking some time and distance

> > to remap how I'll

> > > relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not

> > playing their game.

> > >

> > > So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the

> > future.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts on this would be interesting to

> > ponder.

> > >

> > > -Kyla

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.

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>

[Guest guest]

My mom throws this line into my face all the time. Funny, though I

treat her so much better than she has ever treated me. I give her

more respect than she has ever given back.

I am not sure what the BP thinks about this phase. Maybe the BP

think it goes beyond the respect and the child should do everything

the parent wants them to do.

I respect Nada, but I don't want her near me at all!

> >

> > I've struggled a lot with this issue. How could I not? They throw

> it in my face every chance they get. Maybe that's why I've always

> had the feeling I might die young? But I'm still here for now ...

> >

> > When I was looking up the word " honor " to see what it really does

> mean, I saw that " respect " is a synonym, so I looked up that word.

> My favorite part of the definition is the part that says: " to

> refrain from intruding upon or interfering, as in respecting

> boundaries or privacy. " This is something I feel I do with them,

and

> do quite well, but it's something they've never done with me!

> >

> > Also, later in that same passage, Ephesians 6 (verse 4), it

> says " Fathers, do not exasperate your children. " So, I figure, they

> don't uphold their part of the deal, so why should I worry about

> mine?

> > I actually pointed this out to nada and fada the last time they

> tried to give me a face-to-face " biblical " intervention, and they

> both got really defensive, saying " That's not what that means! " ; )

> > They're just totally in their little alternate reality. They

can't

> even see the truth.

> >

> > Society says we should honor our parents because they raised us,

> but, really, society doesn't have a clue, for the most part, what

> it's like to be raised by a BP parent. I know, just the few non-

KO's

> I've talked with about this stuff look at me like I've got the

> plague or something - or like I'm just lying to them completely.

> They have NO IDEA! Then, when they finally do believe me, they

> totally understand why I wouldn't want to call my mother every day

> or see my parents as often as I can ...

> >

> > I think " honor " HAS to mean something different to KOs than it

> does to other people just because our family relationships are so

> different.

> > I

> >

> > 5th Commandment: Honor thy Father &

> Mother

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >

> > > I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and

> > > when it

> > > came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

> > > fell

> > > in.

> > >

> > > It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still

> > > are

> > > obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their

> > > care --

> > > you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> > > decline, etc.

> > >

> > > I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the

right

> > > thing in God's eyes.

> > >

> > > Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

> > > parents,

> > > so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> > > events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled

> > > in to

> > > Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

> > >

> > > The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving

> > > the

> > > door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

> > > for

> > > regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing

> > > from the

> > > book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did

> > > to

> > > you.

> > >

> > > My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to

> > > get a

> > > pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when

> > > appropriate --

> > > Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how

> > > I'll

> > > relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing

> > > their game.

> > >

> > > So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

> > >

> > > -Kyla

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lovely thoughts -- thank you --

>

> Kyla,

>

> I can't speak for God or You. I know what that commandment means

to me: parents have to earn the right to be honored. Does God

smile and put a gold star next to their name in the great book when

they beat you verbally til you can't tell reality from nonreality?

God gave us a mind to go with our soul, and the emotions are the

words. Just listen and see what yours says.

>

> Greg.

>

>

> 5th Commandment: Honor thy Father &

Mother

>

> I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and when

it

> came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

fell

> in.

>

> It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still are

> obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their care -

-

> you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> decline, etc.

>

> I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> thing in God's eyes.

>

> Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your parents,

> so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

> Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

>

> The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving the

> door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

for

> regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from

the

> book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did to

> you.

>

> My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to get

a

> pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when appropriate --

> Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how I'll

> relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their

game.

>

> So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

>

> Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

>

> -Kyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

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> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

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>

[Guest guest]

Hey Everybody -- I still have some things to learn, and speaking of

apologies --

I didn't know that there was a Christian (or was it " religious " ?) BP

message board, and maybe this topic would have been more

appropriately posted there.

Very sincerely sorry if there are any hurt feelings out there --

Religion is so intensely personal, that it's a risky thing to put

out there on a general board.

Having said that, I've read so many profound things on the subject --

It seemed like such an important aspect for people who are trying

to rebuild their fractured lives and simultaneously keep the

Commandments......(not to mention nadas and fadas pulling it out of

their quiver when they want to induce guilt!)

--Obviously you guys have thought about it, too. Just one more

thing that binds us all together.

Thanks,

Kyla

>

> I was reading Dr. 's book about the 10 Commandments and when

it

> came to the " Honor thy Father & Mother " , I wasn't sure where we

fell

> in.

>

> It seemed to say that " sure, they made mistakes, but you still are

> obligated to take care of them when you can, or see to their care -

-

> you're supposed to extend yourself financially if they are in

> decline, etc.

>

> I'm over generalizing a long chapter, but I want to do the right

> thing in God's eyes.

>

> Anybody have perspective on this? My T says " They're your

parents,

> so you still should invite them to birthday parties and sports

> events for the kids, etc. But you don't have to be pulled in to

> Mom's stuff. " (exact words!)

>

> The book did say " honor " could mean praying for them, leaving the

> door open for when they're old and frail and may have more room

for

> regret and hope that you'll come around. So, I am guessing from

the

> book that " honor " is how you define it, based on what they did to

> you.

>

> My parents weren't the worst -- and even the bad ones seem to get

a

> pass in this book. We send them notes and cards when appropriate -

-

> Right now I'm just taking some time and distance to remap how I'll

> relate to them. But they are PISSED that I'm not playing their

game.

>

> So, not sure how I'll define " Honor " in the future.

>

> Any thoughts on this would be interesting to ponder.

>

> -Kyla

>