RE: Car A/C + rain can kill you...!!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Tiwari, Thanks for your views on this interesting topic. Also I would like to thank Mr. Das for initiating/sharing the info. I would like to mention that there were two more incidents involving suffocation in a car during rains and flooding : 1. October 30th 2006 - Place Chennai (Fatality 3) 2. July 28 th 2005 - Place Mumbai (Fatality : 3) Incidentally & interestingly (coincidence?!!!) all the three cars were SANTRO! Please find given below some excerpts from NDTV website on the incident which happened on 30th October 2006 at Chennai. You can visit the webpage at http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?fromtimeline=true & id=95582 & callid=1 & template=Monsoon 37-year-old Balakrishnan who ran a software firm and two of his male employees were found dead inside a car during the floods in Chennai over the weekend. What caused their death is still a mystery. Preliminary investigations point to suffocation or accidental poisoning from the car's air conditioner.The conditioner could have broken down and emitted a poisonous gas as the vehicle negotiated inundated roads."We can only come to a conclusion after we get the post mortem report and the findings of the chemical examination of tissues," said AG Maurya, DCP, Mylapore, Chennai.The car manufacturer, however, discounts the theory of poisonous gases like carbon monoxide accidentally coming in

from the AC vents into the car.Experts do not rule out freak cases of gas emissions through the AC vents and say drivers should watch out for a few warning signs."There will be some breathing difficulty and a burning sensation in the eyes. Immediately one should switch off the AC and roll down the windows," said MP Balakrishnan, automobile expert.There's also the danger of power windows getting stuck and the central locking system getting jammed during floods. Car manufacturers say this is often due to poor quality remote buttons in cases where they are fitted in local roadside shops. The police advise people to call the control room at 100 from their mobile phones for help in emergencies. Regards, R Venkatesh"Tiwari, Prashant" wrote: We all know that if the exhaust is blocked the vehicle simply stops working and there is no connection of AC intake to Exhaust of vehicle. Regards, Prashant From: indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Das, J. K. - F & S (HAZ)Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:10 PMTo: FireSafetyIndiayahoogroups (DOT) co.in; hse_proff ; indiansafetyprofessionals Subject: FW: "Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!! Please be carefulImportance: High A case study shared. Regards, JK Das "Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!! Please be carefulImportance: High Monday September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might happen. A car air conditioner turned into an instrument of death and killed a family of four. The family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died due to suffocation. During rains if the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could turn into a gas chamber. Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with the air and formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation. Carbon monoxide is said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state not allowing the person to feel any pain. There were no signs of the occupants frantically

trying to open the car doors or windows. The car was still running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes. Auto experts say that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not very common. However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down during monsoons and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that the doors be unlocked while driving. <<pic05829.jpg>> With Regards, Mohamed Afroz Material Handling (HRC) ESSAR Steel Ltd, 27 km Surat-Hazira road, Hazira-394 270

[Guest guest]

As the topic is really interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali or other safety professional who are working in automobile industries should share their experience/information.

regards,

HN Khimani

"Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!! Please be carefulImportance: High

Monday September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might happen. A car air conditioner turne! d into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died due to suffocation.

During rains if the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could turn into a gas chamber.

Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with the air and formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation.

Carbon monoxide is said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state not allowing the person to feel any pain.! There were no signs of the occupants frantically trying to open the car doors or windows.

The car was still running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto experts say that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not very common. However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down during monsoons and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that the doors be unlocked while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With Regards,

Mohamed Afroz

Material Handling (HRC)

ESSAR Steel Ltd,

27 km Surat-Hazira road, Hazira-394 270

[Guest guest]

PROBABLE CAUSE:

1. A/C in Air Recirculation mode with less than 10% fresh air intake.

2. Leakage of refrigeration gases into Car from AC Vent. AC ducts can get rusted with prolonged exposure to moisture. Though its rare, possibility exists.

3. Shortcircuit and Electric Fire leading to CO formation.

4. Power windows and Central Locking Failure sounds very convincing. Oxygen deficiency will lead to suffocation and person will sure try to open the windows.

IMPROBABLE CAUSE: 'Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes'

Slight choking of Exhaust and engine will come to halt.

Regards,

Prashant

From: indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ] On Behalf Of HN KhimaniSent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:58 AMTo: safety@...; ddkala@...Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals Subject: Fw: RE: "Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!!

As the topic is really interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali or other safety professional who are working in automobile industries should share their experience/information.

regards,

HN Khimani

"Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!! Please be carefulImportance: High

Monday September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might happen. A car air conditioner turne! d into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died due to suffocation.

During rains if the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could turn into a gas chamber.

Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with the air and formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation.

Carbon monoxide is said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state not allowing the person to feel any pain.! There were no signs of the occupants frantically trying to open the car doors or windows.

The car was still running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto experts say that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not very common. However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down during monsoons and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that the doors be unlocked while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With Regards,

Mohamed Afroz

Material Handling (HRC)

ESSAR Steel Ltd,

27 km Surat-Hazira road, Hazira-394 270

[Guest guest]

As mentioned by Mr.Prasanth, if the exhaust blocks fully, the engine should stop immediately.

Whereas, the incident occured in Faridabad says people found dead while engine & AC were in running condition during the exhaust was fully submerged.

And the other two incidents also would have occured in the same fashion, hence as per the contradictory if the engine stops, logically the Oxygen deficence or CO poisioning would have not occured and they would have survived by this time.

In view above, it is evident clearly from Mr.Venkatesh / Mr.Das case study, In such typical cases the engine does't stop and a probability of poisioning the air through AC blower.

Cause may be visible, but the course of reaction towards the incident shall be explored.

With Regards

K.Bubesh

BPCL.

-----Original Message-----From: indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ]On Behalf Of HN KhimaniSent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:58 AMTo: safety@...; ddkala@...Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals Subject: Fw: RE: "Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!!

As the topic is really interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali or other safety professional who are working in automobile industries should share their experience/information.

regards,

HN Khimani

"Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!! Please be carefulImportance: High

Monday September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might happen. A car air conditioner turne! d into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died due to suffocation.

During rains if the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could turn into a gas chamber.

Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with the air and formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation.

Carbon monoxide is said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state not allowing the person to feel any pain.! There were no signs of the occupants frantically trying to open the car doors or windows.

The car was still running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto experts say that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not very common. However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down during monsoons and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that the doors be unlocked while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With Regards,

Mohamed Afroz

Material Handling (HRC)

ESSAR Steel Ltd,

27 km Surat-Hazira road, Hazira-394 270

[Guest guest]

It is exactly not known whether the car

was running or not but certainly that resulted the death

and bleeding from nose.

Probably, the sequence may be –

1.

The

driver might feel to wait for some time, otherwise

they would have came out in rain even to save their life.

2.

After

some time , the children got affect first and observed

sleepy .

3.

The

parent also decided to wait for more time and they also felt lazy

, sleepy .

4.

As time passes , the concentration of CO2 increases from their own exhalation

and same gas inhalation .

5.

This got

poisonous effect or recirculation of the same gas faster due to AC, the person

died.

regds

D D KALA

Fw:

RE: " Car A/C +

rain " can kill you...!!!

As the topic is really

interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali or

other safety professional who are working in automobile industries should

share their experience/information.

regards,

HN Khimani

" Car A/C + rain " can kill you...!!! Please be careful

Importance: High

Monday September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak

incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might

happen. A car air conditioner turne! d into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16.

The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died due to suffocation.

During rains if the car AC is left on and there is

no ventilation, the car could turn into a gas chamber.

Rain water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and

denies a smooth exit for the exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the

exhaust fumes mixed with the air and formed carbon monoxide causing

suffocation.

Carbon monoxide is said to be a silent killer as

it induces a sleep like state not allowing the person to feel any pain.! There were no signs of the occupants frantically

trying to open the car doors or windows.

The car was still running, when the four were

found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto experts say that the accident was a freak

accident and that this is not very common. However, they advise drivers to

drive with their windows down during monsoons and without the air conditioner.

They also suggest that the doors be unlocked while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With Regards,

Mohamed Afroz

Material Handling (HRC)

ESSAR Steel Ltd,

27 km Surat-Hazira road,

Hazira-394 270

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the sound debate on the

subject. I feel, this is now well-concluded by the competent man from

automobile sector.

Our aim in sharing case-studies is not to criticize

particular manufacturer or persons etc, but to learn from the probable

mistakes. (Hope the objective is fulfilled here).

Warm regards,

J K Das

0261-6682439 / 09879101548

Safety comes in Cans.

I can, You can... We

can.

From:

indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of DD.Kala@...

Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006

3:16 PM

To: khimani@...

Cc:

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: RE:

RE: " Car A/C + rain " can kill you...!!!

It is exactly not known whether the car was running or not but

certainly that resulted the death and bleeding from

nose.

Probably, the sequence may be –

1.

The driver might feel to wait for some time, otherwise they would have came out in rain even to

save their life.

2.

After some time , the

children got affect first and observed sleepy .

3.

The parent also decided to wait for more time and

they also felt lazy , sleepy .

4.

As time passes , the

concentration of CO2 increases from their own exhalation and same gas

inhalation .

5.

This got poisonous effect or recirculation of the

same gas faster due to AC, the person died.

regds

D D KALA

-----Original

Message-----

From: HN Khimani [mailto:khimaniipr (DOT) res.in]

Sent: 24 November 2006 11:58

To: safetyhmil (DOT) net; Kala DD,

L-13(SNW)

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: Fw:

RE: " Car A/C +

rain " can kill you...!!!

As the topic

is really interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali

or other safety professional who are working in automobile

industries should share their experience/information.

regards,

HN Khimani

-----

Original Message -----

From: Venkatesh

R

To: Tiwari, Prashant

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

; jdas@... ; c_kalaiarasanrediffmail

; Mappillai

; Rath

; Mukherjee

; nsahu@...

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:13 AM

Subject:

RE: " Car A/C + rain " can kill you...!!!

Dear Mr. Tiwari,

Thanks for

your views on this interesting topic.

Also I would like

to thank Mr. Das for initiating/sharing the info.

I would like to

mention that there were two more incidents involving suffocation in a car

during rains and flooding :

1. October

30th 2006 - Place Chennai (Fatality 3)

2. July 28 th 2005 - Place Mumbai (Fatality :

3)

Incidentally &

interestingly (coincidence?!!!) all the three cars were SANTRO!

Please find given

below some excerpts from NDTV website on the incident which happened

on 30th October 2006 at Chennai.

You can visit

the webpage at http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?fromtimeline=true & id=95582 & callid=1 & template=Monsoon

37-year-old Balakrishnan who ran a software firm and two of his male

employees were found dead inside a car during the floods in Chennai over the

weekend.

What caused their death is still a mystery. Preliminary investigations point to

suffocation or accidental poisoning from the car's air conditioner.

The conditioner could have broken down and emitted a poisonous gas as the

vehicle negotiated inundated roads.

" We can only come to a conclusion after we get the post mortem report and

the findings of the chemical examination of tissues, " said AG Maurya, DCP, Mylapore, Chennai.

The car manufacturer, however, discounts the theory of poisonous gases like

carbon monoxide accidentally coming in from the AC vents into the car.

Experts do not rule out freak cases of gas emissions through the AC vents and

say drivers should watch out for a few warning signs.

" There will be some breathing difficulty and a burning sensation in the

eyes. Immediately one should switch off the AC and roll down the windows, "

said MP Balakrishnan, automobile expert.

There's also the danger of power windows getting stuck and the central locking

system getting jammed during floods.

Car manufacturers say this is often due to poor quality remote buttons in cases

where they are fitted in local roadside shops.

The police advise people to call the control room at 100 from their mobile

phones for help in emergencies.

Regards,

R Venkatesh

" Tiwari,

Prashant " <prashant.tiwariunilever>

wrote:

We all know that if the exhaust is blocked the vehicle simply stops

working and there is no connection of AC intake to Exhaust of vehicle.

Regards,

Prashant

!

From: indiansafetyprofessionals

[mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ] On Behalf Of Das,

J. K. - F & S (HAZ)

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006

2:10 PM

To: FireSafetyIndiayahoogroups (DOT) co.in;

hse_proff ;

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject:

FW: " Car A/C + rain " can kill you...!!! Please be careful

Importance: High

A case study shared.

Regards,

JK Das

-----Original

Message-----

From: Md. Afroz

- MH Electrical (HAZ)

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:52 AM

Subject: " Car A/C + rain " can kill you...!!! Please be careful

Importance: High

Monday September

4, 10:54 PM New Delhi:

A freak incident in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what

might happen. A car air conditioner turne! d into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The family was

trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up.

The four died due to suffocation.

During rains if

the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could turn into a

gas chamber.

Rain water

partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the exhaust

fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with the air and

formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation.

Carbon monoxide is

said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state not allowing the

person to feel any pain.! There were no signs of the

occupants frantically trying to open the car doors or windows.

The car was still

running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged leaving no

outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto experts say

that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not very common.

However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down during monsoons

and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that the doors be unlocked

while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With Regards,

Mohamed Afroz

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

CO2 is not a silent killer, one cannot stay long i.e. will feel asphyxiation

and will try to come out from the atmosphere unless exposed to very high

dose instantly, whereas CO is a silent killer, it causes irreversible damage

to the blood cells which you do not know instantly.You can continue to

stay and die.

Regards,

SSH

"Das, J. K. - F & S (HAZ)" wrote:

Thank

you all for the sound debate on the subject. I feel, this is now well-concluded

by the competent man from automobile sector.

Our

aim in sharing case-studies is not to criticize particular manufacturer

or persons etc, but to learn from the probable mistakes. (Hope the objective

is fulfilled here).

Warm

regards,

J

K Das

0261-6682439

/ 09879101548

Safety

comes in Cans.

I

can, You can... We can.

From:

indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ]On

Behalf Of DD.Kalamaruti (DOT) co.in

Sent:

Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:16 PM

To:

khimaniipr (DOT) res.in

Cc:

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject:

RE: RE: "Car A/C + rain" can kill you...!!!

It

is exactly not known whether the car was running or not but certainly that resulted

the death and bleeding from nose.

Probably,

the sequence may be –

1.The

driver might feel to wait for some time,

otherwise they would have came out in rain even to save their life.

2.After

some time , the children got affect first

and observed sleepy .

3.The

parent also decided to wait for more time and they also felt lazy

, sleepy .

4.As

time passes , the concentration of CO2

increases from their own exhalation and same gas inhalation .

5.This

got poisonous effect or recirculation of the same gas faster due to AC,

the person died.

regds

D D

KALA

-----Original

Message-----

From:

HN Khimani [mailto:khimaniipr (DOT) res.in]

Sent:

24 November 2006 11:58

To:

safetyhmil (DOT) net; Kala DD, L-13(SNW)

Cc:

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject:Fw:

RE: "Car A/C

+ rain" can kill you...!!!

As

the topic is really interesting, Mr. DD Kala and Mr. P. Murali

or other safety professional who are working in automobile industries should

share their experience/information.

regards,

HN

Khimani

-----

Original Message -----

From:Venkatesh

R

To:

Tiwari,

Prashant

Cc:

indiansafetyprofessionals

; jdas@...

; c_kalaiarasanrediffmail

; Mappillai

; Rath

; Mukherjee

; nsahu@...

Sent:

Friday, November 24, 2006 11:13 AM

Subject:

RE: "Car A/C

+ rain" can kill you...!!!

Dear

Mr. Tiwari,

Thanks

for your views on this interesting topic.

Also

I would like to thank Mr. Das for initiating/sharing the info.

I

would like to mention that there were two more incidents involving suffocation

in a car during rains and flooding :

1.

October 30th 2006 - Place Chennai (Fatality 3)

2.

July 28 th 2005 - Place Mumbai (Fatality

: 3)

Incidentally

& interestingly (coincidence?!!!) all the three cars were SANTRO!

Please

find given below some excerpts from NDTV website on the incident which

happened on 30th October 2006 at Chennai.

You

can visit the webpage athttp://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?fromtimeline=true & id=95582 & callid=1 & template=Monsoon

37-year-old Balakrishnan

who ran a software firm and two of his male employees were found dead inside

a car during the floods in Chennai over the weekend.

What caused their death is

still a mystery. Preliminary investigations point to suffocation or accidental

poisoning from the car's air conditioner.

The conditioner could have

broken down and emitted a poisonous gas as the vehicle negotiated inundated

roads.

"We can only come to a conclusion

after we get the post mortem report and the findings of the chemical examination

of tissues," said AG Maurya, DCP, Mylapore, Chennai.

The car manufacturer, however,

discounts the theory of poisonous gases like carbon monoxide accidentally

coming in from the AC vents into the car.

Experts do not rule out freak

cases of gas emissions through the AC vents and say drivers should watch

out for a few warning signs.

"There will be some breathing

difficulty and a burning sensation in the eyes. Immediately one should

switch off the AC and roll down the windows," said MP Balakrishnan,

automobile expert.

There's also the danger of

power windows getting stuck and the central locking system getting jammed

during floods.

Car manufacturers say this

is often due to poor quality remote buttons in cases where they are fitted

in local roadside shops.

The police advise people

to call the control room at 100 from their mobile phones for help in emergencies.

Regards,

R Venkatesh

"Tiwari,

Prashant" <prashant.tiwariunilever>

wrote:

We

all know that if the exhaust is blocked the vehicle simply stops working

and there is no connection of AC intake to Exhaust of vehicle.

Regards,

Prashant

!

From:

indiansafetyprofessionals [mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ] On

Behalf Of Das, J. K. - F & S (HAZ)

Sent:

Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:10 PM

To:FireSafetyIndiayahoogroups (DOT) co.in;hse_proff ;

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject:

FW: "Car A/C

+ rain" can kill you...!!! Please be careful

Importance:

High

Acase

study shared.

Regards,

JK

Das

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Md. Afroz - MH Electrical (HAZ)

Sent:

Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:52 AM

Subject: "Car A/C + rain" can

kill you...!!! Please be careful

Importance: High

Monday

September 4, 10:54 PM New Delhi: A freak incident

in the rain on Saturday has now created new fears of what might happen.

A car air conditioner turne! d

into an instrument of death and killed a family of four.

The

family was trapped inside a Santro in Faridabad's

sector 16. The AC was on and the windows were rolled up. The four died

due to suffocation.

During

rains if the car AC is left on and there is no ventilation, the car could

turn into a gas chamber.

Rain

water partially chokes the exhaust pipe and denies a smooth exit for the

exhaust fumes. Since the AC had been left on, the exhaust fumes mixed with

the air and formed carbon monoxide causing suffocation.

Carbon

monoxide is said to be a silent killer as it induces a sleep like state

not allowing the person to feel any pain.!

There were no signs of the occupants frantically trying to open the car

doors or windows.

The

car was still running, when the four were found. The exhaust pipe had submerged

leaving no outlet for exhaust fumes.

Auto

experts say that the accident was a freak accident and that this is not

very common. However, they advise drivers to drive with their windows down

during monsoons and without the air conditioner. They also suggest that

the doors be unlocked while driving.

<<pic05829.jpg>>

With

Regards,

Mohamed Afroz