Re: Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

[Guest guest]

a,

I'm so sorry to learn of your problem with your dad. The story is very

familiar. Don't be bullied into visitation and remember to protect

yourself/family FIRST !! Best wishes and stay strong. You are doing the

right thing.

KW

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:19:52 -0000

>

>Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC to

>please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

>politely as I could, " In writing please. "

>

>He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

>initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

>following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account they

>openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to make

>things serious!!! LOL

>

>He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well as

>my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I said

>conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate limited

>contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

>together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least that's

>a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no demands

>of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

>he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my son

>(nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

>entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

>obligation.

>

>It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

>custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information from

>us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And DH

>and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

>visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

>lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

>visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the courts

>have historically have sided in the favor of the parents' decisions.

>

>Blech!

>

>a

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Thank you, KW.

>

> a,

> I'm so sorry to learn of your problem with your dad. The story is

very

> familiar. Don't be bullied into visitation and remember to

protect

> yourself/family FIRST !! Best wishes and stay strong. You are

doing the

> right thing.

>

> KW

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >Subject: Steaming Mad: No regard for

boundaries!

> >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:19:52 -0000

> >

> >Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC

to

> >please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

> >politely as I could, " In writing please. "

> >

> >He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> >initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> >following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account

they

> >openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to make

> >things serious!!! LOL

> >

> >He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well as

> >my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I said

> >conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

limited

> >contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> >together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

that's

> >a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

demands

> >of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

> >he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my son

> >(nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> >entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

> >obligation.

> >

> >It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

> >custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information

from

> >us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And

DH

> >and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> >visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> >lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> >visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the courts

> >have historically have sided in the favor of the parents'

decisions.

> >

> >Blech!

> >

> >a

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live

Spaces

> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?

href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?

wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mkt=en-us

>

[Guest guest]

a, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this.

It takes so much strength and courage for us KOs to finally take a stand and

acknowldge the years of dysfunction and abuse and say that this is no longer

acceptable.... and while the BP involved might never understand what you're

saying or why, the dishrag's response is -- IMO anyway -- even more painful and

baffling. The BP has their mental illness as an excuse... the dishrag only has

his own weakness and denial.

My dishrag clings to my NP step-nada -- they're in it together, too! How

admirable, lol. And they LOVE to put the focus on how I've " kept " my son away

from them, and how much they miss him, blah blah blah, while refusing to discuss

or even acknowledge their behavior toward ME the past 30-plus years. I

personally think they fixate on this one point (and ignore everything else)

because that's the only way they can see themselves as innocent victims -- and

make me the villian -- and then they never have to change and can go on

justifying their behavior.

But yeah, the truth is that my dishrag DID make his choice, years ago, of

loyalty to his wife over his own children and grandchildren (I have a

half-sister he never sees, and she has two grown sons he's never met). Part of

me always hoped that if he was somehow forced to face the truth about this,

he'd change.... now I understand it isn't a matter of his simply not realizing

it. He's probably known all along what he's doing and still does it anyway.

And that HURTS.

It's like at the end of " Ordinary People, " when Sutherland's character

chooses his son over his wife and finally faces who she is, and refuses to

tolerate it anymore for his son's sake... THAT, to my mind, is heroic and what a

normal, healthy parent would do. In fact, when my ex-H began to act out in an

emotinoally abusive way toward our son -- I left the guy! I didn't choose to

ignore it and deny it and say " we're in it together. " It wasn't easy, but when

you have kids, your #1 responsibility becomes protecting them and giving them a

happy, healthy life, period!

Anyhow, I'm rambling -- but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents and let you know

you're not alone!

And as to the legal situation, maybe you want to give yourself some more time

before taking that on? Right now, having just gone NC, there might be some

emotional stuff being projected on to that issue -- and it seems like taking

them to court immediately on the custodial account might actually encourage them

to pursue " grandparents rights " legally to retaliate!

Shana

Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC

> to

> please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

> politely as I could, " In writing please. "

>

> He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account

> they

> openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to

> make

> things serious!!! LOL

>

> He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well

> as

> my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I

> said

> conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

> limited

> contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

> that's

> a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

> demands

> of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

> he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my

> son

> (nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

> obligation.

>

> It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

> custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information

> from

> us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And

> DH

> and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the

> courts

> have historically have sided in the favor of the parents' decisions.

>

> Blech!

>

> a

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shana -- what a great post. It's eerie how they always follow the

same script. Hopefully, a, you will at least take comfort in

that and continue the course you're on. Protecting your boundary by

hanging up on your fada took courage.

Yes, they love to be the " innocent victims " -- nothing is so

delicious as righteous indignation! My dishrag told my brother " I

wish she'd get out that Bible of hers and look up 'Honor thy father

and thy mother' " . He's angry that I'm not falling in line and going

along with their time-honored game. It's pissing him off. (He

conveniently ignores quite a bit in the Bible about not being overly

self-absorbed! Self-worship is a no-no in the Bible -- Also

ignoring the truth is in there, too!)

Like a said -- they've made their choice, and it's not us.

They'll paint it like we've abandoned them, but the opposite is

true. My dishrag keeps saying the same thing over and over " Need to

see the kids " as if I've kept them from him. What utter crap.

Hang in there a -- you're doing the right thing. They'll turn

up the heat, but show them you can stand it.

-Kyla

\

>

>

> a, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this.

>

> It takes so much strength and courage for us KOs to finally take a

stand and acknowldge the years of dysfunction and abuse and say that

this is no longer acceptable.... and while the BP involved might

never understand what you're saying or why, the dishrag's response

is -- IMO anyway -- even more painful and baffling. The BP has

their mental illness as an excuse... the dishrag only has his own

weakness and denial.

>

> My dishrag clings to my NP step-nada -- they're in it together,

too! How admirable, lol. And they LOVE to put the focus on how

I've " kept " my son away from them, and how much they miss him, blah

blah blah, while refusing to discuss or even acknowledge their

behavior toward ME the past 30-plus years. I personally think they

fixate on this one point (and ignore everything else) because that's

the only way they can see themselves as innocent victims -- and make

me the villian -- and then they never have to change and can go on

justifying their behavior.

>

> But yeah, the truth is that my dishrag DID make his choice, years

ago, of loyalty to his wife over his own children and grandchildren

(I have a half-sister he never sees, and she has two grown sons he's

never met). Part of me always hoped that if he was somehow forced

to face the truth about this, he'd change.... now I understand it

isn't a matter of his simply not realizing it. He's probably known

all along what he's doing and still does it anyway. And that HURTS.

>

> It's like at the end of " Ordinary People, " when

Sutherland's character chooses his son over his wife and finally

faces who she is, and refuses to tolerate it anymore for his son's

sake... THAT, to my mind, is heroic and what a normal, healthy

parent would do. In fact, when my ex-H began to act out in an

emotinoally abusive way toward our son -- I left the guy! I didn't

choose to ignore it and deny it and say " we're in it together. " It

wasn't easy, but when you have kids, your #1 responsibility becomes

protecting them and giving them a happy, healthy life, period!

>

> Anyhow, I'm rambling -- but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents and

let you know you're not alone!

>

> And as to the legal situation, maybe you want to give yourself

some more time before taking that on? Right now, having just gone

NC, there might be some emotional stuff being projected on to that

issue -- and it seems like taking them to court immediately on the

custodial account might actually encourage them to

pursue " grandparents rights " legally to retaliate!

>

> Shana

>

>

> Steaming Mad: No regard for

boundaries!

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> > Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC

> > to

> > please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

> > politely as I could, " In writing please. "

> >

> > He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> > initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> > following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account

> > they

> > openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to

> > make

> > things serious!!! LOL

> >

> > He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well

> > as

> > my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I

> > said

> > conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

> > limited

> > contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> > together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

> > that's

> > a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

> > demands

> > of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

> > he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my

> > son

> > (nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> > entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

> > obligation.

> >

> > It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

> > custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information

> > from

> > us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And

> > DH

> > and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> > visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> > lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> > visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the

> > courts

> > have historically have sided in the favor of the parents'

decisions.

> >

> > Blech!

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One more thing: the analogy to Ordinary People was PERFECT. It's

too bad that what the Sutherland character did in taking up

for his son was the exception, and not the norm that we've

experienced. It's hard for me to imagine my fada standing up to

nada. It's a pity, really. He has a right to his life, too. And

not just to take orders on " Who we hate this week " ...

I love that movie. Tyler was one cold, unfeeling witch.

Hits too close to home!! -- She nailed that character.

-Kyla

>

>

> a, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this.

>

> It takes so much strength and courage for us KOs to finally take a

stand and acknowldge the years of dysfunction and abuse and say that

this is no longer acceptable.... and while the BP involved might

never understand what you're saying or why, the dishrag's response

is -- IMO anyway -- even more painful and baffling. The BP has

their mental illness as an excuse... the dishrag only has his own

weakness and denial.

>

> My dishrag clings to my NP step-nada -- they're in it together,

too! How admirable, lol. And they LOVE to put the focus on how

I've " kept " my son away from them, and how much they miss him, blah

blah blah, while refusing to discuss or even acknowledge their

behavior toward ME the past 30-plus years. I personally think they

fixate on this one point (and ignore everything else) because that's

the only way they can see themselves as innocent victims -- and make

me the villian -- and then they never have to change and can go on

justifying their behavior.

>

> But yeah, the truth is that my dishrag DID make his choice, years

ago, of loyalty to his wife over his own children and grandchildren

(I have a half-sister he never sees, and she has two grown sons he's

never met). Part of me always hoped that if he was somehow forced

to face the truth about this, he'd change.... now I understand it

isn't a matter of his simply not realizing it. He's probably known

all along what he's doing and still does it anyway. And that HURTS.

>

> It's like at the end of " Ordinary People, " when

Sutherland's character chooses his son over his wife and finally

faces who she is, and refuses to tolerate it anymore for his son's

sake... THAT, to my mind, is heroic and what a normal, healthy

parent would do. In fact, when my ex-H began to act out in an

emotinoally abusive way toward our son -- I left the guy! I didn't

choose to ignore it and deny it and say " we're in it together. " It

wasn't easy, but when you have kids, your #1 responsibility becomes

protecting them and giving them a happy, healthy life, period!

>

> Anyhow, I'm rambling -- but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents and

let you know you're not alone!

>

> And as to the legal situation, maybe you want to give yourself

some more time before taking that on? Right now, having just gone

NC, there might be some emotional stuff being projected on to that

issue -- and it seems like taking them to court immediately on the

custodial account might actually encourage them to

pursue " grandparents rights " legally to retaliate!

>

> Shana

>

>

> Steaming Mad: No regard for

boundaries!

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> > Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC

> > to

> > please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

> > politely as I could, " In writing please. "

> >

> > He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> > initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> > following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account

> > they

> > openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to

> > make

> > things serious!!! LOL

> >

> > He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well

> > as

> > my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I

> > said

> > conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

> > limited

> > contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> > together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

> > that's

> > a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

> > demands

> > of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

> > he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my

> > son

> > (nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> > entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

> > obligation.

> >

> > It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

> > custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information

> > from

> > us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And

> > DH

> > and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> > visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> > lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> > visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the

> > courts

> > have historically have sided in the favor of the parents'

decisions.

> >

> > Blech!

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lol...once again, Lizzy took the words right out of my head....hahaha....we

do that alot, don't we? I think I'm just going to chime in with Lizzy here

with a big hug and a good for you!! It's not easy to stand your ground with

people like that...but you will be a better mom to your son because of it,

and the lessons he will learn are priceless. Man oh man can I relate to the

entitlement issue. My father-in-law ran for a county political office this

year and actually showed up at my house to GUILT my kids into campaigning

for him on election day. He actually said to them " I am your GRANDFATHER and

I certainly DESERVE a few hours of your time....i expect you to be (there)

tomorrow....it is election day and you shouldn't have anything else going on

so there is no excuse! " It just caught me so off-guard, i wish i would

have spoken up...but i didn't until the next day, when he called my daughter

s cell phone and read her the riot act about how disappointed he was that

they weren't at the polling place....and it gets worse....upon finding out

the election results my daughter took it upon herself to call him on his

cell phone to tell him that she was sorry he didn't win, but he was her

grand-father and she loved him no matter what. What was his reply? He said

" well maybe I would have won if you would have helped out a little more! "

(Total BS since his overall results was less than 10% of the total vote

county wide....even so, how dare him lay that on a child's conscious) I

grabbed the phone out of her hand, and told him that I hoped he was proud of

himself...because those words would be the last he EVER spoke to either one

of my children. The very next day, my daughter told me that she slept

better than she ever did her entire life. She felt like he was a constant

rain cloud " over her life for as long as she could remember....but she was

always afraid that if she said anything, she would get in trouble. I just

hugged her and cried....she will be 16 next month, and has just now received

some " relief " from us. I'm just kicking myself that I didn't relieve her

from that years ago.

Hang in there....we are sending you all of our good wishes and prayers.

Every time you kiss that little boy, just know that HE knows that you are

being the best mom you can be. Hopefully justice will prevail and the judge

will do the right thing.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

a, you did what you could your letters were clear as a bell and

wonderful with no demands. Dishrag made his choice hopeful he wakes

up soon. Mine at least stopped all the court mess just as it got

ugly. I live in a state where they favor the grandparents not the

parents. Now just be prepared for a good LONG HARD fight! Court

freggen stinks no matter what the cause but it really stinks when

there are attacks on your children with grandparents rights in my

humble opinion the bitches shouldn't have any rights. But you have

no choice but to fight when it comes to your kids. I wish you all of

my love and all of my blessings. I know you will need then in this

hard time. But YOU WILL MAKE IT!!!! We all do. You have your son and

your husband and you have us. A shower of prayers your way. Love

Lizzy

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " baast2play "

wrote:

>

> Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the NC

to

> please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying as

> politely as I could, " In writing please. "

>

> He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> following letter asking them to sign over the custodial account

they

> openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to make

> things serious!!! LOL

>

> He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as well as

> my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I said

> conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

limited

> contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

that's

> a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

demands

> of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the things

> he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my son

> (nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom), and

> obligation.

>

> It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over the

> custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping information

from

> us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS. And

DH

> and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the courts

> have historically have sided in the favor of the parents'

decisions.

>

> Blech!

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

I can totally see your point, Shana. What you are recommending is

suing for disclosure. That is the minimum I want and need. I'll have

to give your suggestions some serious thought. Hubby says that we

have to ask for anything we want up front in a law suit because we

can't ask for more later. There is a slight possibility that they

could be using DS's account to launder money for their goods and say

it is for him, and then he/we owe much more in taxes. It could also

be a way, down the road, to make me pay for my " misbehavior. " If we

ask for the accounts to be signed over to us, then we take away more

abilitiy for them to screw with us.

Blech,

a

>

>

> a, it strikes me just now that anger is one of those stages

(like denial, bargaining, etc.) that ultmately leads to acceptance...

>

> So I say, if it feels good, do it! You're asserting yourself and

doing the right thing.

>

> My gut says you might want to explore less a drastic way to resolve

the legal issue with your folks, though... maybe, instead of having

their custodial rights permanently removed, you can set something up

with your attorney that requires them to annually report all relevant

tax-related info to your attorney instead? It just seems like, going

NC and then immediately taking away their legal rights regarding this

custodial account is like a double slap in the face (to them), and

since they're already acting so self-righteous and victimized

regarding seeing their grandchild, it's kind of like waving the red

flag for the bull (and I do mean BULL, lol!) and might possibly lead

them to pursue visitation rights in court -- which would be a nightmare!!

>

> Anyhow, just my thoughts. Your strength through this is inspiring!

>

> Shana

>

>

>

> Re: Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> > Thanks so much for the support guys! It really means a lot to have

> > this board as part of my healing process.

> >

> > Unfortunately I can't let the legal thing go for too long.

> > Since the

> > custodial accounts have tax implications, my son might be responsible

> > for paying taxes already and we don't know it. But ignorance isn't

> > bliss in the eye of the law and we have no way of knowing the info

> > without the custodian of the account sharing with us.

> >

> > I've marvelled at how I really haven't been angry at my family much

> > for 35 years. Boy, after yesterday's call from fada/dishrag, I've

> > really tapped into that anger and it feels good.

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Grace,

Thank you for the empathy.

Visitation rights are just that, a legal right for the grandparents to

visit the grandchildren in a form the court will allow. Examples:

twice a month, supervised by a court official, etc. etc.

Generally if both parents of the child agree that they don't want the

child to see the grandparents, then you have a stronger case. The

courts feel that the parents have the best interest for the child in

mind and take that into serious consideration. However, there have

been some cases that grandparents have won, but that is usually

involving divorced or widowed parents.

a

[Guest guest]

Oh My God, a, What your husband said just made sense to me, something that

my nada told me at the beginning of the last year. She is going to rent out her

guest house for $800 a week and push it through an account that is not in her

name. I asked her who's name it was in and she said that she couldn't tell me.

It was her BF idea. Then I found out from my SIL that my nada opened college

accounts for my nephews. I can totally see them both doing that to my nephews.

And your dh is right about having to state all you need up front before you file

a suit. From my point of view, it is best to get them out of your lives; they

used you without remorse or compunction - don't let them use your son. F them.

My thoughts are with you and DH.

Greg.

Re: Steaming Mad: No regard for boundaries!

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

>

> > Thanks so much for the support guys! It really means a lot to have

> > this board as part of my healing process.

> >

> > Unfortunately I can't let the legal thing go for too long.

> > Since the

> > custodial accounts have tax implications, my son might be responsible

> > for paying taxes already and we don't know it. But ignorance isn't

> > bliss in the eye of the law and we have no way of knowing the info

> > without the custodian of the account sharing with us.

> >

> > I've marvelled at how I really haven't been angry at my family much

> > for 35 years. Boy, after yesterday's call from fada/dishrag, I've

> > really tapped into that anger and it feels good.

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yikes! Another jaw-dropping moment where I read someone's post and

it could have been MINE!

" Yes, they love to be the " innocent victims " -- nothing is so

delicious as righteous indignation! My dishrag told my brother " I

wish she'd get out that Bible of hers and look up 'Honor thy father

and thy mother' " . He's angry that I'm not falling in line and going

along with their time-honored game. "

Kyla, I read what you wrote and the last time I talked to nada, she

threw that scripture in my face as well. She said I was being

disrespectful, and that there was a commandment against that, I

said " I know, " She said, " I don't think you do, " all like she was

talking down to me.

Hmm... oddly enough, that commandment didn't seem to apply to her

those YEARS she spend bashing my father and encouraging me to

confront him about his living w/ his girlfriend outside of marriage

(ok, not exactly honoring your father when you scold him for that

per nada's leading... I mean, come on, kind of out of place for a

kid to get on their dad about that) and she was so disrespectful of

him, encouraging me to mock him. Hypocrit!!!

Ahhh!!!

I'm glad I became a Christian before I had her as my example to look

at in terms of what it meant to be a Christian. I don't like it when

she uses the Bible against me, because I just don't think what she

does is consistent and she uses it as a weapon. Not good.

Grace

> >

> >

> > a, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this.

> >

> > It takes so much strength and courage for us KOs to finally take

a

> stand and acknowldge the years of dysfunction and abuse and say

that

> this is no longer acceptable.... and while the BP involved might

> never understand what you're saying or why, the dishrag's response

> is -- IMO anyway -- even more painful and baffling. The BP has

> their mental illness as an excuse... the dishrag only has his own

> weakness and denial.

> >

> > My dishrag clings to my NP step-nada -- they're in it together,

> too! How admirable, lol. And they LOVE to put the focus on how

> I've " kept " my son away from them, and how much they miss him,

blah

> blah blah, while refusing to discuss or even acknowledge their

> behavior toward ME the past 30-plus years. I personally think

they

> fixate on this one point (and ignore everything else) because

that's

> the only way they can see themselves as innocent victims -- and

make

> me the villian -- and then they never have to change and can go on

> justifying their behavior.

> >

> > But yeah, the truth is that my dishrag DID make his choice,

years

> ago, of loyalty to his wife over his own children and

grandchildren

> (I have a half-sister he never sees, and she has two grown sons

he's

> never met). Part of me always hoped that if he was somehow forced

> to face the truth about this, he'd change.... now I understand it

> isn't a matter of his simply not realizing it. He's probably

known

> all along what he's doing and still does it anyway. And that

HURTS.

> >

> > It's like at the end of " Ordinary People, " when

> Sutherland's character chooses his son over his wife and finally

> faces who she is, and refuses to tolerate it anymore for his son's

> sake... THAT, to my mind, is heroic and what a normal, healthy

> parent would do. In fact, when my ex-H began to act out in an

> emotinoally abusive way toward our son -- I left the guy! I

didn't

> choose to ignore it and deny it and say " we're in it together. "

It

> wasn't easy, but when you have kids, your #1 responsibility

becomes

> protecting them and giving them a happy, healthy life, period!

> >

> > Anyhow, I'm rambling -- but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents

and

> let you know you're not alone!

> >

> > And as to the legal situation, maybe you want to give yourself

> some more time before taking that on? Right now, having just gone

> NC, there might be some emotional stuff being projected on to that

> issue -- and it seems like taking them to court immediately on the

> custodial account might actually encourage them to

> pursue " grandparents rights " legally to retaliate!

> >

> > Shana

> >

> >

> > Steaming Mad: No regard for

> boundaries!

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >

> > > Dishrag called me at work today. I asked him once before the

NC

> > > to

> > > please not contact me at work. I hung up on him after saying

as

> > > politely as I could, " In writing please. "

> > >

> > > He called back and left a vmail with TONS of FOG! I think my

> > > initial letter of no contact didn't phase them. I think my

> > > following letter asking them to sign over the custodial

account

> > > they

> > > openned in my son's name scared them. Nothing like money to

> > > make

> > > things serious!!! LOL

> > >

> > > He's asking to meet with me so he can address the past (as

well

> > > as

> > > my role in it - HA!). He says he can't meet my " demands " (I

> > > said

> > > conditions in my letter to him BTW) for him to have separate

> > > limited

> > > contact with my family. He says that Nada and him are in it

> > > together. (I finally see that he's made a choice - at least

> > > that's

> > > a bit of a relief to know). He started off saying he had no

> > > demands

> > > of me - but that was a lie because he then listed off the

things

> > > he's done for me and why they deserve to have contact with my

> > > son

> > > (nothing about me) for the future. The msg was dripping with

> > > entitlement, domination (whom was being dominated by whom),

and

> > > obligation.

> > >

> > > It looks like we will have to take them to court to sue over

the

> > > custodial account(s) for my son as they are keeping

information

> > > from

> > > us that involves tax implications for me, my DH, and my DS.

And

> > > DH

> > > and I are very much expecting a counter suit for grandparents

> > > visitation rights: entitlement, entitlement, entitlement. The

> > > lawyer we consulted said that the longer they wait to file a

> > > visitation suit, the better off our case is. Luckily, the

> > > courts

> > > have historically have sided in the favor of the parents'

> decisions.

> > >

> > > Blech!

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >