Re: Question about salivary testing

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam, What do you mean by saying the results are not the same?

Do you mean that the ranges are not the same, the ratios are different or

something else?

You see. Mine and my husbands results came back with extremely high Estrogen. (I

take BHRT) When we went to see my mom's Doctor today we showed him her results

from the salivary test which say that her Estradiol is at 2.0 (Range 0.5-1.7),

he looked at her blood tests and said that because her FSH is in the 90's and

she is in her 70's, that is an impossible result. Seeing the results that my

husband and I recorded, I was kind of hoping that the salivary tests could be

off.

Does this make sense, can the doctor be wrong?

Thanks,

Gail

Estradiol (saliva) 2.0H pg/ml 0.5-1.7 Postmenopausal (optimal 1.3-1.7)

>

> They have been reliable for " me " and many others. Please note that blood

> and saliva results will not usually be the same. So if you've done both,

> you'll see differences.

>

> Sam

> (thyroidless, total hyst, hypopituitary)

>

> =====

> > Hello. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with salivry

> > testing for hormornes. Is it usually reliable? My husband, mom and I

> > had salivary tests done last month for hormornes and cortesol levels. The

> > results for hormones are frightening for the three of us.

> >

> > Mom and I went to see her Dc today and he said that they are not in Sync

> > with her other tests he had taken a few weeks ago although he is testing

> > again to make certain. Has anyone else had this experience?

> >

> > If they are reliable, I will be posting again to ask for HELP!!

> >

> > Thanks very much,

> > Gail

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Blood testing, tests what's circulating in the blood.

Saliva, tells us what's in our tissues and being used.

What's in my tissues is more important to me than what's swimming around

in my blood. I take BHRT, and while having major hot flahes, hair loss,

and partial urinary incontinence (which are my particular low e syptoms),

my blood tests showed high e, but my saliva results reflected exactly how

I was feeling. I do, by the way, have my adrenals properly supported, so

that isn't a variable I have to consider for myself.

If you're doing saliva for cortisol, DHEA, and sex hormones, you have to

look at all the results as one package. If adrenals are having issues,

this can affect sex hormones. Look at DHEA and FTestosterone, and of they

are not both about midrange, that indicates there may be an adrenal issue.

Look at cortisol results - they should be high in the morning and

gradually decrease thru-out the day, and be very low at night. If the

results vary widey from that, it indicates an adrenal problem.

But then again, 2.0 is not all that much above 1.7...it's not like it is

in the hundreds or thousands. I also have to say, after menopause, FSH and

LH can go really high (even over range), but if they don't, it may mean

that perhaps there's more ovary activity than thought (I know a few women

still having periods in their 70's), or there's something going on with

the pituitary.

Those are my thoughts.

Sam

=====

> Hi Sam, What do you mean by saying the results are not the same?

> Do you mean that the ranges are not the same, the ratios are different or

> something else?

>

> You see. Mine and my husbands results came back with extremely high

> Estrogen. (I take BHRT) When we went to see my mom's Doctor today we

> showed him her results from the salivary test which say that her Estradiol

> is at 2.0 (Range 0.5-1.7), he looked at her blood tests and said that

> because her FSH is in the 90's and she is in her 70's, that is an

> impossible result. Seeing the results that my husband and I recorded, I

> was kind of hoping that the salivary tests could be off.

>

> Does this make sense, can the doctor be wrong?

> Thanks,

> Gail

>

> Estradiol (saliva) 2.0H pg/ml 0.5-1.7 Postmenopausal (optimal 1.3-1.7)

>

>>

>> They have been reliable for " me " and many others. Please note that blood

>> and saliva results will not usually be the same. So if you've done both,

>> you'll see differences.

>>

>> Sam

>> (thyroidless, total hyst, hypopituitary)

>>

>> =====

>> > Hello. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with salivry

>> > testing for hormornes. Is it usually reliable? My husband, mom and I

>> > had salivary tests done last month for hormornes and cortesol levels.

>> The

>> > results for hormones are frightening for the three of us.

>> >

>> > Mom and I went to see her Dc today and he said that they are not in

>> Sync

>> > with her other tests he had taken a few weeks ago although he is

>> testing

>> > again to make certain. Has anyone else had this experience?

>> >

>> > If they are reliable, I will be posting again to ask for HELP!!

>> >

>> > Thanks very much,

>> > Gail

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her results

here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood tests showing

lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping at straws here.

Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside from

cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post menopausal for almost

2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last month. My cortesol is

outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't point to adrenal fatigue.

I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well, if it is important to seeing

the entire picture. I belong to a Natural Thyroid group and a connected adrenal

group. I plan to post my results there too eventually, but I wanted to check

here first since the Estradoil is my main worry.

Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal 1.3-3.3)

Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

Current Hormone Therapies

2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs Last used);

200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg oral DHEA

(OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy (Pharmaceutical) (daily

Last used);

These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am now on 3

1/2 grains and the increase helped.

Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have a lot of

trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love it although I

don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is happening.

Gail

>

> Blood testing, tests what's circulating in the blood.

> Saliva, tells us what's in our tissues and being used.

> What's in my tissues is more important to me than what's swimming around

> in my blood. I take BHRT, and while having major hot flahes, hair loss,

> and partial urinary incontinence (which are my particular low e syptoms),

> my blood tests showed high e, but my saliva results reflected exactly how

> I was feeling. I do, by the way, have my adrenals properly supported, so

> that isn't a variable I have to consider for myself.

>

> If you're doing saliva for cortisol, DHEA, and sex hormones, you have to

> look at all the results as one package. If adrenals are having issues,

> this can affect sex hormones. Look at DHEA and FTestosterone, and of they

> are not both about midrange, that indicates there may be an adrenal issue.

> Look at cortisol results - they should be high in the morning and

> gradually decrease thru-out the day, and be very low at night. If the

> results vary widey from that, it indicates an adrenal problem.

>

> But then again, 2.0 is not all that much above 1.7...it's not like it is

> in the hundreds or thousands. I also have to say, after menopause, FSH and

> LH can go really high (even over range), but if they don't, it may mean

> that perhaps there's more ovary activity than thought (I know a few women

> still having periods in their 70's), or there's something going on with

> the pituitary.

>

> Those are my thoughts.

>

> Sam

>

> =====

> > Hi Sam, What do you mean by saying the results are not the same?

> > Do you mean that the ranges are not the same, the ratios are different or

> > something else?

[Guest guest]

I'm owner/mod of the thyroidless group, also on NTH and the adrenal

groups, and all that.

Well, on the bright side, your TSH looks pretty good.

Your cortisols are pretty bad. Are you taking HC/Cortef/anything?

DHEAs and testosterone no where near mid-range.

Free T3 only slightly above mid-range, Free T4 nearly at the bottom of the

range, etc. You're on 3 grains natural thyroid meds, but are you dosing up

according to symptoms? Or are you not able to because of adrenal symptoms?

I can certainly see why you don't feel that great.

Absolutely address adrenals first, then thyroid, and then if sex hormones

don't normalize you should address them. But adrenal and thyroid look like

the biggest issues you have at the moment.

Sam

=====

> Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her

> results here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood

> tests showing lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping at

> straws here.

>

> Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside

> from cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post menopausal

> for almost 2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last month.

> My cortesol is outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't point

> to adrenal fatigue. I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well, if

> it is important to seeing the entire picture. I belong to a Natural

> Thyroid group and a connected adrenal group. I plan to post my results

> there too eventually, but I wanted to check here first since the Estradoil

> is my main worry.

>

> Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal

> 1.3-3.3)

> Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

> Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

> Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

> DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

> Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

> Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

> Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

> Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

> Current Hormone Therapies

> 2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs Last

> used); 200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg oral

> DHEA

> (OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy (Pharmaceutical)

> (daily Last used);

>

> These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am now

> on 3 1/2 grains and the increase helped.

> Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

> Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

> TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

>

> My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have a

> lot of trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love it

> although I don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

>

> Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is

> happening.

>

>

> Gail

[Guest guest]

Wow, thanks for your response! I am not taking anything for Adrenals. I was

taking Ashwaghanda but I ran out last month and haven't been able to re-stock.

Nothing else yet, and I don't know where to start. I have some topical cortisol

cream, that is all but I haven't een using that either.

I was dosing thyroid according to symptoms but was advised to stop until I had

adrenal testing done in the nth adrenal group. That was a couple of months ago;

I love in Thailand you see, and I had to wait until I got home this summer to

get the tests done. The last increase helped a lot though, I used to have a

horrible tightness in my throat and at 3.5 grains it finally started to subside.

By the way, I was tested for Hashi's about a year and half ago and the results

were fine.

Where do you suggest I start with my Adrenals? WIll Ashwaghanda be enough?

Should I start with a topical cortisone cream? It may be all I can manage once

I get back to Thailand next week. I have a Doctor there that gives me my BHRT

but the blood tests she requires every 2 months cost about $500.US and we cannot

afford it. I have been dosing on symptoms since December, until I had the

salivary tests done.

Thanks very much Sam!

Gail

>

> I'm owner/mod of the thyroidless group, also on NTH and the adrenal

> groups, and all that.

>

> Well, on the bright side, your TSH looks pretty good.

> Your cortisols are pretty bad. Are you taking HC/Cortef/anything?

> DHEAs and testosterone no where near mid-range.

> Free T3 only slightly above mid-range, Free T4 nearly at the bottom of the

> range, etc. You're on 3 grains natural thyroid meds, but are you dosing up

> according to symptoms? Or are you not able to because of adrenal symptoms?

>

> I can certainly see why you don't feel that great.

> Absolutely address adrenals first, then thyroid, and then if sex hormones

> don't normalize you should address them. But adrenal and thyroid look like

> the biggest issues you have at the moment.

>

> Sam

>

> =====

> > Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her

> > results here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood

> > tests showing lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping at

> > straws here.

> >

> > Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside

> > from cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post menopausal

> > for almost 2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last month.

> > My cortesol is outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't point

> > to adrenal fatigue. I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well, if

> > it is important to seeing the entire picture. I belong to a Natural

> > Thyroid group and a connected adrenal group. I plan to post my results

> > there too eventually, but I wanted to check here first since the Estradoil

> > is my main worry.

> >

> > Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal

> > 1.3-3.3)

> > Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

> > Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

> > Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

> > DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

> > Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

> > Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

> > Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

> > Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

> > Current Hormone Therapies

> > 2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs Last

> > used); 200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg oral

> > DHEA

> > (OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy (Pharmaceutical)

> > (daily Last used);

> >

> > These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am now

> > on 3 1/2 grains and the increase helped.

> > Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

> > Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

> > TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

> >

> > My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have a

> > lot of trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love it

> > although I don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

> >

> > Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is

> > happening.

> >

> >

> > Gail

>

[Guest guest]

Unless ashwaghanda gives you actual cortisol in precise amounts, it's

probably not going to do a lot to help your adrenals rest and heal. If

this was me, I'd just cut to the chase and go onto HC, but not the topical

cream unless you can get precise dosages and use " enough " . Are you able to

order your own meds online? This is what I ended up doing for a while

(even ordering many of my own tests online).

Perhaps you might want to consider waiting on BHRT until you are able to

address your adrenals. There are a couple of articles on STTM that give

info and directions on how to take HC. Here's the man article, and it's

got links for the how-to:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

There are a few different ways to start adrenal support:

Conservatively, increasing by a little dinky amounts over a long period of

time; going by saliva cortisol results, dosing 5mg HC during the low times

and taking something to lower cortisol during the high times (not my fav);

jumping right in and taking 5mg HC at four set times per day, which more

or less forces the adrenals into a regular rhythm (altho the 1st week

might be a wee bit dicey); dosing 5mg HC according to symptoms. I dose by

symptoms, taking 5mg HC every 3 hours for now (30-25mg)...I am recovering

from a back injury. I wait until I get air hunger (for example) then take

my 5mg HC and wait 10-15 minutes for symptoms to subside...for me this

works well.

But remember, you have to decide to do what you feel comfortable with.

I personally like to jump in with both feet, with eyes wide open, after I

figure out what it is that I want/need.

Sam

=====

> Wow, thanks for your response! I am not taking anything for Adrenals. I

> was taking Ashwaghanda but I ran out last month and haven't been able to

> re-stock. Nothing else yet, and I don't know where to start. I have some

> topical cortisol cream, that is all but I haven't een using that either.

>

> I was dosing thyroid according to symptoms but was advised to stop until I

> had adrenal testing done in the nth adrenal group. That was a couple of

> months ago; I love in Thailand you see, and I had to wait until I got home

> this summer to get the tests done. The last increase helped a lot though,

> I used to have a horrible tightness in my throat and at 3.5 grains it

> finally started to subside. By the way, I was tested for Hashi's about a

> year and half ago and the results were fine.

>

> Where do you suggest I start with my Adrenals? WIll Ashwaghanda be

> enough? Should I start with a topical cortisone cream? It may be all I

> can manage once I get back to Thailand next week. I have a Doctor there

> that gives me my BHRT but the blood tests she requires every 2 months cost

> about $500.US and we cannot afford it. I have been dosing on symptoms

> since December, until I had the salivary tests done.

>

> Thanks very much Sam!

> Gail

>

>

>

>

>>

>> I'm owner/mod of the thyroidless group, also on NTH and the adrenal

>> groups, and all that.

>>

>> Well, on the bright side, your TSH looks pretty good.

>> Your cortisols are pretty bad. Are you taking HC/Cortef/anything?

>> DHEAs and testosterone no where near mid-range.

>> Free T3 only slightly above mid-range, Free T4 nearly at the bottom of

>> the

>> range, etc. You're on 3 grains natural thyroid meds, but are you dosing

>> up

>> according to symptoms? Or are you not able to because of adrenal

>> symptoms?

>>

>> I can certainly see why you don't feel that great.

>> Absolutely address adrenals first, then thyroid, and then if sex

>> hormones

>> don't normalize you should address them. But adrenal and thyroid look

>> like

>> the biggest issues you have at the moment.

>>

>> Sam

>>

>> =====

>> > Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her

>> > results here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood

>> > tests showing lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping

>> at

>> > straws here.

>> >

>> > Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside

>> > from cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post

>> menopausal

>> > for almost 2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last

>> month.

>> > My cortesol is outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't

>> point

>> > to adrenal fatigue. I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well,

>> if

>> > it is important to seeing the entire picture. I belong to a Natural

>> > Thyroid group and a connected adrenal group. I plan to post my

>> results

>> > there too eventually, but I wanted to check here first since the

>> Estradoil

>> > is my main worry.

>> >

>> > Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal

>> > 1.3-3.3)

>> > Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

>> > Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

>> > Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

>> > DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

>> > Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

>> > Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

>> > Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

>> > Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

>> > Current Hormone Therapies

>> > 2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs

>> Last

>> > used); 200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg

>> oral

>> > DHEA

>> > (OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy

>> (Pharmaceutical)

>> > (daily Last used);

>> >

>> > These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am

>> now

>> > on 3 1/2 grains and the increase helped.

>> > Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

>> > Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

>> > TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

>> >

>> > My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have

>> a

>> > lot of trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love

>> it

>> > although I don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

>> >

>> > Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is

>> > happening.

>> >

>> >

>> > Gail

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much. I'll read the article and have a look at what is available

in my area. Salivary testing is impossible where I am unfortunately. I cannot

think of stopping BHRT, I was not sleeping at all before I started and life was

pretty tough. It isn't ideal now, but fine compared to what it was.

I can order online meds-what do I need? I'll try to find a Thai online pharmacy

that can supply it. If you know of one, please email me gail4ce@...

Thanks again ,

Gail

> >>

> >> I'm owner/mod of the thyroidless group, also on NTH and the adrenal

> >> groups, and all that.

> >>

> >> Well, on the bright side, your TSH looks pretty good.

> >> Your cortisols are pretty bad. Are you taking HC/Cortef/anything?

> >> DHEAs and testosterone no where near mid-range.

> >> Free T3 only slightly above mid-range, Free T4 nearly at the bottom of

> >> the

> >> range, etc. You're on 3 grains natural thyroid meds, but are you dosing

> >> up

> >> according to symptoms? Or are you not able to because of adrenal

> >> symptoms?

> >>

> >> I can certainly see why you don't feel that great.

> >> Absolutely address adrenals first, then thyroid, and then if sex

> >> hormones

> >> don't normalize you should address them. But adrenal and thyroid look

> >> like

> >> the biggest issues you have at the moment.

> >>

> >> Sam

> >>

> >> =====

> >> > Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her

> >> > results here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood

> >> > tests showing lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping

> >> at

> >> > straws here.

> >> >

> >> > Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside

> >> > from cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post

> >> menopausal

> >> > for almost 2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last

> >> month.

> >> > My cortesol is outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't

> >> point

> >> > to adrenal fatigue. I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well,

> >> if

> >> > it is important to seeing the entire picture. I belong to a Natural

> >> > Thyroid group and a connected adrenal group. I plan to post my

> >> results

> >> > there too eventually, but I wanted to check here first since the

> >> Estradoil

> >> > is my main worry.

> >> >

> >> > Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal

> >> > 1.3-3.3)

> >> > Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

> >> > Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

> >> > Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

> >> > DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

> >> > Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

> >> > Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

> >> > Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

> >> > Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

> >> > Current Hormone Therapies

> >> > 2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs

> >> Last

> >> > used); 200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg

> >> oral

> >> > DHEA

> >> > (OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy

> >> (Pharmaceutical)

> >> > (daily Last used);

> >> >

> >> > These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am

> >> now

> >> > on 3 1/2 grains and the increase helped.

> >> > Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

> >> > Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

> >> > TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

> >> >

> >> > My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have

> >> a

> >> > lot of trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love

> >> it

> >> > although I don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

> >> >

> >> > Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is

> >> > happening.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Gail

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'll jump in and say a few things " I've " learned about the adrenal mess i'm in.

My adrenals=fried. I can't even tolerate the smallest dose of old armour or even

naturethroid without MAJOR adrenal support (HC). i tried all the " adaptogens " in

the past, including ashwaghanda (which supposedly helps you sleep, my issue) and

phosphatidilserine. Believe me, going the HC route is much better. I had been on

Isocort for a year and did " ok " managing that while I was detoxing the Wiley

Protocol crap out of me (old story, ladies here know it). Then i tried armour

for my thryoid. couldn't handle it. didn't know it was becasue my adrenals were

not supported enough to handle adding in thyroid med. Adding in a thyroid med,

tho you'd think would make you feel better but it actually is a stress on

adrenals. it's " new " to a body that's been hypo for years and has coped with

being hypo by conserving cortisol any way it can. (something about stuff going

on i in the liver that i read in some old files on the NTH site. I'm not so good

at remembering exact text book explanations.) when adding in the thryoid med,

the thyroid NEEDS cortisol to work, and thus uses it all, even the stuff you're

adding in from HC or Isocort. Plus it stresses your adrenals more and depletes

the cortisol.

Anyway, i went on to HC from Isocort and tried naturethroid this time. guess

what? 20 mg HC, = not enough for me to handle thyroid. i'm finding my " sweet

spot " is somewhere between 25-27.5 mg HC. 30 is too much for sure cuz i'm

getting a few high cortisol symptoms.

But i will add this: doing the 5-5-5-5 dosing, did not work for " me " ... for some

reason, i just canNOT take any HC after 6 or 7 pm. it just gives me high

cortisol symptoms (heart palps for me) and i can't sleep at ALL even if I take

4x my normal dose of klonopin (i take .25 mg to help still while i'm getting

adrenals/thryoid to work). BTW: my main issue is INSOMNIA, wired/tired. but my

labs are all " adrenal and hypothryoid " diagnosis.

ok, so for " me " my symptoms of low cortisol=wired/tired, shakey like i've had

too much cafeine. and high cortisol = feel like i'm at the startline of a race,

heart is racing...almost like a panic attack without the psychological paranoia.

at night. in bed. while husband snores. damn him! hate anyone who can sleep

while my body is in a pnaic attack

that's what i've learned for me. you can try the 5-5-5-5 dosing, but if you're

not sleeping at night, i would be careful about dosing the cortisol that high

too close to bed time. I like the STTM dosing of HC... they start high in the

a.m. and go to 2.5 mg by evening/bed time.

my schedule looks like this: 10-10-5 or 10-10-5-2.5 (still experimenting with

that last dose)...

I do very well at this and my temps are " almost " stable... within about .3

degrees (should be about .2 degrees)...

Phosphatidilserine, btw: it wires, rather than helps me sleep. STTM recommends

up to 800 mg to help sleep!!! holy cow. 100 mg makes me wired! so be careful if

you try it. In fact, i take it on days i want to help make my brain feel sharp

and only in the AM. i took it today for the first time in like 8 or 9 months.

and it worked so well, i forgot my noon dose of HC and by 1:30 i realized i

forgot to take it. Usually by noon, i start feeling the low HC symptoms and it

cues me to take it. wild huh? Phosphatidilserine seems to lengthen the life of

cortisol in me for some reason. i like it but its very much like a bon-bon for

me... tastes delicious but too much is not good...if i took it every day i would

wire up...so i use only occasionally! But according to STTM site, PS SHOULD make

you sleep... go figure.

it's really hard to figure it all out. but everybody's body is different. the

key is to pay attention to what you take and write down symptoms. the " ah ha "

light for me went on when i went on prednisone for systemic poison oak. i took

VERY high dosages of it in the AM... and voila, suddenly i could tolerate

thyroid meds. That made me realize i needed more HC to tolerate the thyroid med.

also i noticed when the half life of prednisone wore off, i got SHAKEY and

started needing my HC to offest the shakeyness. wild, needing HC while taking

prednisone. but very high dose of prednisone is a MAJOR shocker to the adrenals

and when waring off, the HC sort of offsets the wear off each day. it took away

the shakeyness. then toward the end of my weaning of Prednisone, i took too MUCH

HC closer to bed time and noticed racing heart, but NOT shakeyness... so i

stopped... and at bed time, no racing heart and able to sleep.

if you do go the HC route, just experiment with how you dose and what's best for

symptoms. Notice every little thing.

And sam is right: adrenals first, then thryoid, then sex hormones. I found my

sex hormones came right back to normal once adrenals were being addressed last

year. I'm 40. have NO issues with my menstral cycle. i had no business being on

BHRT sex hormones that my doc put me on, much less the damn WP. I had some

cysts recently but i attribute it entirely to being on toxic sex hormones of the

WP. and they're gone completly now. (i also take iodine...)

Best of luck,

> >>

> >> I'm owner/mod of the thyroidless group, also on NTH and the adrenal

> >> groups, and all that.

> >>

> >> Well, on the bright side, your TSH looks pretty good.

> >> Your cortisols are pretty bad. Are you taking HC/Cortef/anything?

> >> DHEAs and testosterone no where near mid-range.

> >> Free T3 only slightly above mid-range, Free T4 nearly at the bottom of

> >> the

> >> range, etc. You're on 3 grains natural thyroid meds, but are you dosing

> >> up

> >> according to symptoms? Or are you not able to because of adrenal

> >> symptoms?

> >>

> >> I can certainly see why you don't feel that great.

> >> Absolutely address adrenals first, then thyroid, and then if sex

> >> hormones

> >> don't normalize you should address them. But adrenal and thyroid look

> >> like

> >> the biggest issues you have at the moment.

> >>

> >> Sam

> >>

> >> =====

> >> > Thank you for the explanation. I'll see if mom wants me to post her

> >> > results here. Have you ever seen salivary tests being high and blood

> >> > tests showing lower- the opposite of what your case was? I'm grasping

> >> at

> >> > straws here.

> >> >

> >> > Here are my test results. Can anyone help me make sense of them (aside

> >> > from cutting back on my Estrogel?) Oh! By the way, I am 45 post

> >> menopausal

> >> > for almost 2.5 years now but I had a period out of the blue last

> >> month.

> >> > My cortesol is outta whack but I don't know what to do. It doesn't

> >> point

> >> > to adrenal fatigue. I also have my most recent thyroid tests as well,

> >> if

> >> > it is important to seeing the entire picture. I belong to a Natural

> >> > Thyroid group and a connected adrenal group. I plan to post my

> >> results

> >> > there too eventually, but I wanted to check here first since the

> >> Estradoil

> >> > is my main worry.

> >> >

> >> > Estradiol (saliva) 36.2H pg/ml 0.8-12 Estrogen Replacement (optimal

> >> > 1.3-3.3)

> >> > Progesterone (saliva) 39 pg/ml 30-300 Oral Progesterone (100-300 mg)

> >> > Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) 1L Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

> >> > Testosterone (saliva) 30 pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

> >> > DHEAS (saliva) 6.6 ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

> >> > Cortisol Morning (saliva) 15.7H ng/ml 3.7-9.5

> >> > Cortisol Noon (saliva) 4.3H ng/ml 1.2-3.0

> >> > Cortisol Evening (saliva) 0.6 ng/ml 0.6-1.9

> >> > Cortisol Night (saliva) <0.1L ng/ml 0.4-1.0

> >> > Current Hormone Therapies

> >> > 2.25 mg topical Estrogen (type not indicated) (compounded) (20 hrs

> >> Last

> >> > used); 200 mg oral Progesterone (compounded) (8 hrs Last used); 15 mg

> >> oral

> >> > DHEA

> >> > (OTC) (daily Last used); BID sublingual Thyroid Therapy

> >> (Pharmaceutical)

> >> > (daily Last used);

> >> >

> >> > These are the latest blood test taken on April 6th on 3 grains. I am

> >> now

> >> > on 3 1/2 grains and the increase helped.

> >> > Free T-3 2.90 Ranges (1.45-3.45)

> >> > Free T-4 0.89 Ranges (0.71-1.85)

> >> > TSH 0.012 Ranges )0.47-4.64)

> >> >

> >> > My sleep is horrible, I wake up during the night with sweats and have

> >> a

> >> > lot of trouble getting back to sleep. Exercise is no trouble, I love

> >> it

> >> > although I don't have the strength I had. No libido .. shall I go on?

> >> >

> >> > Thanks for letting me share. Hope you can help shed light on what is

> >> > happening.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Gail

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>