Re: survival rules/ friendships: long post

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your comments, .

You are right, as a non Aspie I can't speak for you. I can only step between my

perspective and what I have observed in the AS folks I have got to know as

friends and worked with. I guess the first rule of survival, then, could be to

work out way allow people in, rather than watch them go by, if that is what you

would wish?

Ian felt that he spent his childhood friendless, yet when he speaks to his wider

family members, they recall him being intelligent, engaging, and a bright child,

always out and about with two friends that the family remember well. A also

cousin says he was in awe of Ian, and still is, and loved playing out with him.

Ian responds that those two friends weren't his choice, they sought him rather

than the other way around, he barely recalls them, yet in childhood photos, they

are prevalent.  And that he yearned to be friends with some other, particular,

children at school, and they were the ones who didn't befriend him. He tried to

be friends but wasn't successful, and he still resents that.

Ian says that his teens were friendless, yet a teen pal recently got in touch

after 30 years and reminded him of the elite, small, gang in which he held a

high rank. Ian didn't see it that way. And the friend said that Ian seemingly

snubbed girls, as he didn't pick up on cues, and broke

hearts as he did so.

Ian cant believe that, now, hearing about how in his teens, apparently 2 girls

'wanted with him', (scottish for dating) he wasn't expecting it so he didn't 

see it. It would seem he only got into his sights, people he aligned with, once

he was in his 20's, when he was able to clearly match the friendship of one guy

with his chosen idea of what he would like in a friend. He also clicked with

women then, too.

In some ways this is sincerity in it's purest form? I remember, as a

bespectacled, weedy, buck toothed individual myself,  hanging out with similar

types, finding only a true soulmate pal when I was older and had a clear sense

of myself.

Ian's mum once paid some of the kids in his neighbourhood to come to his 16th

birthday party. Ian had said to her that he wanted 10 pals there, that's what

others usually had,  and she arranged it. They wouldn't have come otherwise, so

Ian believes, but the money was offered before the invitation, so who knows?

This wasn't because they hated Ian, they just

didn't know him well, and he didn't connect with the local kids, through

religious differences, not liking or playing sport, and having different

hobbies. He still had those twopals, but said it wasn't correct number for

aparty.   

Some of the children that came had never played with him before or come round

his house. His father was a horrible man so kids were usually kept away. So it

was other factors, too, that stopped Ian's house being the place to hang out.

After that party he gained a new pal, the one he stayed with throughout his

teens. Who now says what a great, and interesting person, Ian was and is. This

was well before the Asperger diagnosis.

Even now, Ian thinks in terms  of numbers - how many friends do people have,

that's relative to what he sees as their popularity, which he links to success.

I prefer his model - true friendships are forged in alikeness, and respect; and

rather than try too hard, just  ignore those who don't 'get' you.

Perhaps rule 2 of the survival could rest on making the first move, to explain

about yourself and your ideals? There may be an 'other' who is a professional,

but also an other who is a close associate, perhaps feeling able to trust is

another early rule. We all need a place to let rip; in fact Aspires may well be

that 'other' where feelings are explored?

I can safely say there are still a lot of people who wouldn't come to Ian's

birthday party, but he has accepted that the ones who will, who may not number

many, are true to him. He hankers after the crowded room,  all there for him,

proving something to himself, I guess. As an author he now has admirers of his

work, and others who meet him professionally. As he doesn't now have to adhere

to school boundaries or employers rules, he feels freer to plough his own

furrow, and not being thrust into the limelight with people he can't relate to,

helps him make friends with

people that he chooses.

He still hurts, though. It runs deep that he isn't at ease socially, but again,

I often see him making good conversation and getting great social feedback, he

just doesn't capitalise on it. He leaves potential friends in the air, not

getting back to them or taking up offers of getting together. He just doesn't

trust people to respond to his entreaties. Unless it's a pretty young woman, in

which case Mr Flirty comes to town! Thats the one time when I dont encourage him

to follow up friendships!

His diagnosis helped immensely, in that he understands himself better, and

realises that during his childhood he was trying to force friends to like him

and hurting himself badly. Because he wanted to be a part of everything. He

didn't make the most of the  pals he had,  because he didn't want those

particular ones. Self-awareness, helping him to seek out and select,  came much

later.

It rankles with him still and he often hates what he perceives as my ability to

pick up casual friendships.  I interact with my friends for  a host of different

things, but still have to  'make' friends, they don't

stick around otherwise.

Ian wants total dedication to his ideals. When he makes a friend its hard won,

and its valid, although what usually happens is that they suggest something, he

says no, and it takes a while to plan anything like a get together. He has left

people waiting for him, not turning up, because he gets cold feet - not

believing they really want to be a friend.

That thing, , about non aspies not understanding how hard it is. I can't and

wouldn't presume to know what it feels like, other than my own exclusions as a

child. I listen to what Ian tells me. And can sometimes see a way forward that

has worked for him. He doesn't maintain his friendships by such as Facebook (lol

and all that). He doesn't phone, return calls, write, or call round to see

folks. Thats not something he feels able to do, its not that he doesnt care. His

few friendships are based mutual appreciation, hobbyistic meetings that are

planned

in advance and looked forward to (thank goodness for email!

I wonder if had email been around when he was a teen he could have brokered

friendships more readily). Those mutual hobbyists are his friendships, and they

are the ones where he can talk about how he feels.His 'others'. But not in

depth.

Since diagnosis Ian will tell to a wide range of people about himself, how he

has conquered a bad childhood and how he is doing these days; and mentions his

AS too. He is pleased to have a rationale for how he sees the world. He thinks

that if he could have known this when he was a child,

he could have been better equipped to repel attempts (including his own) to try

and gather a range of people as friends, simply because it is the norm, rather

than be content to find the elite ones that mattered more.

Long post, thank you for getting this far! Cracking of the code: how to maintain

friendship/connect with others, may well be the key measure to survival in the

first instance? Perhaps its as simple as recognising for yourself what

having/being a friend means to you, or what is expected of

you.

I'll venture that little Ian didn't know how to share himself with others (I can

hear a collective shudder here) and was pretty well isolated because his

attempts were rebuffed and it's only now, that he understands how to weather

that, that he has worked out how to select his friendships.

Judy B

Sent from Judy Barrow's iPad

>

> On 10 Sep 2011, at 02:56, Eyre

> wrote:

>

> > I tend to agree with 's point about Judy's rule

> #2 being unduly

> > optimistic.   In my opinion, has

> been very brave and forthcoming

> > to admit that she spent 57 years of her life without

> any friends or

> > anyone to confide in, especially since being in that

> position is

> > probably something that most NTs would find it very

> hard to even imagine.

> >

> > Our discussions should never forget that close

> relationships,  or the

> > lack of them,  are one of the most significant

> issues that affect

> > Aspies' lives.

> >

> > What struck me,  reading through Judy's

> rules,  is how the word " others "

> > keeps appearing,  and this tends to support my

> theory that non-Aspies

> > would find it very difficult to even imagine living in

> a world where

> > there aren't any " others " .

> >

> > Aspies are often characterised as being from another

> planet,  and as far

> > as relationships and close friends are

> concerned,  I would argue that's

> > true;   we might as well be living on

> Mars,   Funnily enough,  right

> > from the time I was a small child,  I've always

> dreamed of going to live

> > on Mars!!

> >

> > Of course many Aspies have people around them in their

> lives and they're

> > not totally isolated in a physical sense,  but

> this isn't the same as

> > having close friends and " others "   to confide

> in,  in the way that I

> > suspect Judy's rules rather take for granted.

> >

> > So I think if our rules are going to be applicable to

> Aspies as well as

> > to NTs,  we should formulate them with much less

> assumption that there

> > is an abundance of " others " around that we can all

> just turn to.

> >

> > I certainly don't have any contacts like that

> myself.   I wish I did.

> >

> >   

> >

> > -----------

> > On Fri, 9 Sep 2011 at 15:18:44 -0700 Luxenburg

> wrote:

> >

> >> Great ideas, all of them. Thank you for sharing.

> >>

> >> The only one I find unduly optimistic is the

> assumption behind #2. I am

> >> fortunate that I have finally, at 57, found

> someone I can trust who

> >> understands and will help me talk through

> problems. That means 56 years

> >> of not having close friends (or any friends) or

> being able to confide in

> >> family members. Don't assume that every aspie has

> someone who will listen.

> >>

> >> Andromeda

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> To: aspires-relationships

> >> From: judy.barrow@...

> >> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 20:07:10 +0100

> >> Subject: Re: survival

> rules

> >>

> >> My first draft of 'rules to live by' for

> Aspergers, would be to

> >>

> >> 1. Be prepared to explain.

> >> If the situation suits, explain what Aspergers is:

> don't assume others

> >> will accept your behaviours or know the facts

> about AS.

> >>

> >> 2. Never fear.

> >> If you are unsure, or you have sensory issues, are

> frustrated because

> >> you feel you are right, are feeling lost - sit

> down with a close friend

> >> or family member and talk it through. Don't hide

> away or puzzle at it.

> >> Seek understanding. Someone will listen.

> >>

> >> 3. Work out your routines.

> >> What feels safe, what do you hate, what do you aim

> towards? Set out your

> >> ambitions and do something about them, in a way

> that is feasible. Lists,

> >> programmes, and support from others will

> facilitate this. Above all, a

> >> timetable of your plans. This let's others know,

> too.

> >>

> >> 4. Accept that meltdowns can happen. (and on a

> lesser scale, fallouts

> >> with others)

> >> If they happen to you, prepare yourself and others

> and have a system.

> >> Set out a place to go if at home; and what to do

> if you meltdown

> >> outside; and afterwards, have a look at the usual

> triggers; try to avoid

> >> these when you can.

> >>

> >> 5. Know your traits.

> >> Sensory? ( light, smell, touch, noise). Boredom? (

> needing stimmies).

> >> Lacking in social perception? Match these with

> avoidance, planned

> >> activities, and work on the creative, intelligent

> stratas of your AS to

> >> show what a superb person you are. Don't be

> appalled if others dont to

> >> fall down laughing at your jokes, or be perplexed

> if they are not

> >> instantly in thrall to you, don't try too hard.

> And try not to despise

> >> others. There is a place for everyone, it's

> quality that counts.

> >>

> >> 6. Accept that NT's cannot be like you.

> >> NT's can be able to compliment your own traits,

> and support you to live

> >> your life your way, fill in the social gaps,

> explain how they see the

> >> world in a different way.

> >>

> >> Well that's my starter pack. Now, everyone, time

> for you to amend,

> >> append, and do your rules to live by- no hard and

> fast rules, but a set

> >> of helpful tools, really. I now bow to you all.

> >>

> >> Compiled with no help from Ian, whose reaction was

> ' you NT's should

> >> just let us take over' ( Tongue in cheek...). When

> he read them he was

> >> in agreement, though, and accused me of being a

> mind reader. A reader of

> >> AS minds - now wouldn't that be something. Xx

> >>

> >> Judy B, Scotland

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >         

>     " We each have our own way of living in the

> world, together we are like a symphony.

> > Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the

> harmony

> > It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and

> each part is crucial.

> > We all contribute to the song of life. "

> >               

>        ...Sondra

> >

> > We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a

> difference.

> >

> > ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> > Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with

> the original author.

> >       Do NOT post mail

> off-list without the author's permission.

> >            When in

> doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

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> >               

> ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

> >               

>   http://www.aspires-relationships.com

> >

[Guest guest]

I guess the first rule of survival, then, could be to work out way allow people in, rather than watch them go by, if that is what you would wish?It has to start with there being people wanting to be let in, though, doesn't it?

Perhaps rule 2 of the survival could rest on making the first move, to explain about yourself and your ideals? There may be an 'other' who is a professional, but also an other who is a close associate, perhaps feeling able to trust is another early rule. We all need a place to let rip; in fact Aspires may well be that 'other' where feelings are explored?

And the first move is rebuffed? As is the second, and the third, and..... What then? Where does one acquire this "close associate"?My experience with Aspires is no one responds to my posts here either.

Long post, thank you for getting this far! Cracking of the code: how to maintain friendship/connect with others, may well be the key measure to survival in the first instance?

And if making/maintaining friendships is just not in my skill set, and therefore I have no one to help me learn, the code remains opaque. This entire thread sounds like a nightmare hamster wheel, round and round with no way in or out. I don't have friends, I don't have help, I don't know how to learn when I don't even know what it is I don't know. Just that everyone else knows. Even other aspies, apparently.Andromeda

[Guest guest]

Luxenburg wrote:

> *And if making/maintaining friendships is just not in my skill set, and

> therefore I have no one to help me learn, the code remains opaque. This

> entire thread sounds like a nightmare hamster wheel, round and round

> with no way in or out. I don't have friends, I don't have help, I don't

> know how to learn when I don't even know what it is I don't know. Just

> that everyone else knows. Even other aspies, apparently.*

, aren't you overlooking one of your recent successes (the Aspie

group picnic)? It sounds like you have made at least one nice contact

through the group. With time, perhaps that woman will become a good friend.

You also have a boyfriend, right? So clearly you do have some facility

with forming and maintaining relationships.

Best,

~CJ