RE: Dr. Boyd Haley Comments on Hg and Selenium

[Guest guest]

,

Do I have your permission to copy and paste this transcript for another

yahoo group, one specializing in TD-DMPS?

Please let me know.

Thank you

Haleh

john leon wrote:

> All,

>

> A while back, Dr. McCandless posted (on CSB) that Dr. Boyd Haley

> recommended

> not to give Selenium during chelation days as it binds mercury (thus

> preventing excretion). We give Selenium to our boys in drop form and in

> Picmins during chelation days because our boys are low in Selenium.

> So, this

> statement peaked my interest and made me wonder if the low urine Hg output

> we see could be caused by giving Selenium during chelation days. Below

> is a

> series of emails and responses between Dr Haley and I. He was gracious

> enough to clarify this and I feel that it is important enough to share so

> everyone can make their own decision on when to administer Selenium. Dr

> Haley is fine with me sharing this information. In addition, I thought I

> would ask Dr. Haley about the new chelator he is working on. He was also

> nice enough to give me an update which is at the bottom of this post.

>

> Email exchange on Selenium and Mercury

> At 11:14 PM 1/16/06 -0500, you wrote:

>

> Dr. Haley,

>

> I recently saw a post regarding info on selenium and mercury binding. The

> information indicated that you recommended that selenium NOT be given

> during

> chelation days, as it keeps the mercury tied up so it is non-toxic to the

> body and when we chelate we want the mercury to be available for

> removal. So

> giving it all the time might slow down mercury excretion.

>

> I think I understand why this is so, but it really caught my attention

> as I

> know that many many parents actually give Selenium during chelation days.

> If I am understanding this correctly, then many parents need to know

> to stop

> giving Selenium during chelation. Would you mind elaborating on this? My

> concern is that many parents may not be seeing full mercury excretion

> because of what you are indicating. All of the parents I know on the

> various

> forums have a great deal of respect for you and this could help us in our

> quest to chelate mercury.

>

> Sincerely, L

>

> mailto:behaley@...]

>

> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:10 AM

>

> > >To: john leon

>

> > >Subject: Re: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

>

> ,

>

> Selenium, Se2-, binds mercury tighter than DMPS or DMSA. Therefore, if

> both

> Se2- and DMSA are in the blood at the same time the Hg2+ will

> preferentially

> be bound by the Se2- and will not be Hg2+ excreted in the urine and

> one will

> end up with a lower excretion reading if they are using urine as the test

> material, which is the normal way it is done. I don't think having Se2- in

> the blood will do any damage, it may even help to remove the toxic mercury

> from the proteins being inhibited. But it will likely give a lower urine

> mercury reading on a DMPS or DMSA challenge test. HgSe is not rapidly

> removed from the body, but it is of very low, if any, toxicity. Boyd Haley

>

> >At 06:59 PM 1/17/06 -0500, you wrote:

>

> Dr Haley,

>

> Thank you for the response. I am a little confused though. I thought

> that if

> Selenium bound Mercury during chelation then the Mercury would stay

> internal

> (instead of being swept) and cause more damage to the CNS. But, if the

> Selenium is rendering the Mercury inactive then I guess it would not cause

> damage, although it would not be excreted.

>

> If the latter is true, then would the mercury leave your system during OFF

> days of chelation. Can you please elaborate as this may seem like a small

> point, but I assure you it is important for parents to know if they should

> stop giving Selenium during chelation ON days, which is what I gather from

> this. Not that it is harmful, but that it impedes chelation progress.

>

> Also, may I share your response on the chelation parent forum please?

>

> Leon

>

> mailto:behaley@...]

>

> >Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:46 PM

>

> >To: john leon

>

> >Subject: RE: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

>

> ,

>

> First, feel free to share whatever I send you to whomever you wish. I

> don't

> keep my opinions on mercury chemistry/biochemistry secret from anyone.

>

> It is well known that mercury miners have very high levels of mercury in

> their body tissues, levels that would make more normal individuals quite

> sick, yet they appear relatively healthy. It was also determined that for

> each unit of mercury they retain they also retain an equal unit of

> selenium

> from their diet. Therefore, they are retaining mercury selenide (HgSe) at

> high levels and this compound appears not to be toxic because the

> typing up

> of the Hg2+ with Se2- keeping the Hg2+ from reacting with and inhibiting

> enzymes in the body. This does not mean that it is good to have HgSe

> in the

> body and that there are no negative effects from this build up, but

> HgSe is

> much less toxic than Hg2+.

>

> I don't think that it is known how or if HgSe is excreted by the body.

> It is

> probably dependent on where the HgSe forms. If it is formed in the

> blood it

> might be excreted, but if it is formed in the brain it is likely to be

> there

> for a long time. Finally, I don't know the answer as to whether it is good

> or bad to give selenium on days of chelation, but it seems likely to

> me that

> the presence of Se2- in the blood would decrease the binding and excretion

> of mercury in the urine by DMPS or DMSA. However, the presence of Se2- in

> the blood could increase the fecal excretion of Hg, but I do not know

> of any

> study that addresses this issue.

>

> At 09:04 PM 1/19/06 -0500, you wrote:

>

> Dr Haley,

>

> I certainly appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions about Se

> and Hg. As you are well aware, most of the advanced parents have tried

> many

> different forms of chelation and are trying to optimize the best they

> can. I

> understand you may be working on a chelator in your the lab. Any idea

> on how

> long before it could be used by parents?

>

> The reason I ask is that you are well respected by the parents (tough and

> sharp crowd as you know). And we look forward to at least hearing progress

> on your development. Anything you can share is great.

>

> L

>

>

> Dr Haley's progress on his new chelator

> ,

>

> We have completed the synthesis of a compound that binds mercury tighter

> than anything else that I know of, but it was not soluble in water. We

> have

> since coupled it to two glutathione molecules (the natural compound that

> binds mercury) making it soluble in water. We have tested it and it

> definitely clears mercury from water based solutions. We now have to

> do the

> toxicity testing, and it is difficult to get someone to collaborate on

> this

> as most are not interested in mercury chelation. But I will get it

> done. It

> would then have to be clinically tested to get FDA approval and I

> don't know

> how long that would take. Boyd Haley

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

Thanks so much for sending this. I, too, give selenium on the on days of

chelation, as I have found my kids do better when they have consistent vit's and

minerals. Can I have your permisison to forward this to a few other sites?

Thanks!

Ruth

john leon wrote:

All,

A while back, Dr. McCandless posted (on CSB) that Dr. Boyd Haley recommended

not to give Selenium during chelation days as it binds mercury (thus

preventing excretion). We give Selenium to our boys in drop form and in

Picmins during chelation days because our boys are low in Selenium. So, this

statement peaked my interest and made me wonder if the low urine Hg output

we see could be caused by giving Selenium during chelation days. Below is a

series of emails and responses between Dr Haley and I. He was gracious

enough to clarify this and I feel that it is important enough to share so

everyone can make their own decision on when to administer Selenium. Dr

Haley is fine with me sharing this information. In addition, I thought I

would ask Dr. Haley about the new chelator he is working on. He was also

nice enough to give me an update which is at the bottom of this post.

Email exchange on Selenium and Mercury

At 11:14 PM 1/16/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr. Haley,

I recently saw a post regarding info on selenium and mercury binding. The

information indicated that you recommended that selenium NOT be given during

chelation days, as it keeps the mercury tied up so it is non-toxic to the

body and when we chelate we want the mercury to be available for removal. So

giving it all the time might slow down mercury excretion.

I think I understand why this is so, but it really caught my attention as I

know that many many parents actually give Selenium during chelation days.

If I am understanding this correctly, then many parents need to know to stop

giving Selenium during chelation. Would you mind elaborating on this? My

concern is that many parents may not be seeing full mercury excretion

because of what you are indicating. All of the parents I know on the various

forums have a great deal of respect for you and this could help us in our

quest to chelate mercury.

Sincerely, L

From: Boyd E. Haley [ mailto:behaley@...]

> >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:10 AM

> >To: john leon

> >Subject: Re: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

,

Selenium, Se2-, binds mercury tighter than DMPS or DMSA. Therefore, if both

Se2- and DMSA are in the blood at the same time the Hg2+ will preferentially

be bound by the Se2- and will not be Hg2+ excreted in the urine and one will

end up with a lower excretion reading if they are using urine as the test

material, which is the normal way it is done. I don't think having Se2- in

the blood will do any damage, it may even help to remove the toxic mercury

from the proteins being inhibited. But it will likely give a lower urine

mercury reading on a DMPS or DMSA challenge test. HgSe is not rapidly

removed from the body, but it is of very low, if any, toxicity. Boyd Haley

>At 06:59 PM 1/17/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr Haley,

Thank you for the response. I am a little confused though. I thought that if

Selenium bound Mercury during chelation then the Mercury would stay internal

(instead of being swept) and cause more damage to the CNS. But, if the

Selenium is rendering the Mercury inactive then I guess it would not cause

damage, although it would not be excreted.

If the latter is true, then would the mercury leave your system during OFF

days of chelation. Can you please elaborate as this may seem like a small

point, but I assure you it is important for parents to know if they should

stop giving Selenium during chelation ON days, which is what I gather from

this. Not that it is harmful, but that it impedes chelation progress.

Also, may I share your response on the chelation parent forum please?

Leon

From: Boyd E. Haley [ mailto:behaley@...]

>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:46 PM

>To: john leon

>Subject: RE: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

,

First, feel free to share whatever I send you to whomever you wish. I don't

keep my opinions on mercury chemistry/biochemistry secret from anyone.

It is well known that mercury miners have very high levels of mercury in

their body tissues, levels that would make more normal individuals quite

sick, yet they appear relatively healthy. It was also determined that for

each unit of mercury they retain they also retain an equal unit of selenium

from their diet. Therefore, they are retaining mercury selenide (HgSe) at

high levels and this compound appears not to be toxic because the typing up

of the Hg2+ with Se2- keeping the Hg2+ from reacting with and inhibiting

enzymes in the body. This does not mean that it is good to have HgSe in the

body and that there are no negative effects from this build up, but HgSe is

much less toxic than Hg2+.

I don't think that it is known how or if HgSe is excreted by the body. It is

probably dependent on where the HgSe forms. If it is formed in the blood it

might be excreted, but if it is formed in the brain it is likely to be there

for a long time. Finally, I don't know the answer as to whether it is good

or bad to give selenium on days of chelation, but it seems likely to me that

the presence of Se2- in the blood would decrease the binding and excretion

of mercury in the urine by DMPS or DMSA. However, the presence of Se2- in

the blood could increase the fecal excretion of Hg, but I do not know of any

study that addresses this issue.

At 09:04 PM 1/19/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr Haley,

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions about Se

and Hg. As you are well aware, most of the advanced parents have tried many

different forms of chelation and are trying to optimize the best they can. I

understand you may be working on a chelator in your the lab. Any idea on how

long before it could be used by parents?

The reason I ask is that you are well respected by the parents (tough and

sharp crowd as you know). And we look forward to at least hearing progress

on your development. Anything you can share is great.

L

Dr Haley's progress on his new chelator

,

We have completed the synthesis of a compound that binds mercury tighter

than anything else that I know of, but it was not soluble in water. We have

since coupled it to two glutathione molecules (the natural compound that

binds mercury) making it soluble in water. We have tested it and it

definitely clears mercury from water based solutions. We now have to do the

toxicity testing, and it is difficult to get someone to collaborate on this

as most are not interested in mercury chelation. But I will get it done. It

would then have to be clinically tested to get FDA approval and I don't know

how long that would take. Boyd Haley

[Guest guest]

You can forward this to other parents site, but I am not comfortable with it

going to non-parent/non-asd sites.

RE: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

,

First, feel free to share whatever I send you to whomever you wish. I don't

keep my opinions on mercury chemistry/biochemistry secret from anyone.

It is well known that mercury miners have very high levels of mercury in

their body tissues, levels that would make more normal individuals quite

sick, yet they appear relatively healthy. It was also determined that for

each unit of mercury they retain they also retain an equal unit of selenium

from their diet. Therefore, they are retaining mercury selenide (HgSe) at

high levels and this compound appears not to be toxic because the typing up

of the Hg2+ with Se2- keeping the Hg2+ from reacting with and inhibiting

enzymes in the body. This does not mean that it is good to have HgSe in the

body and that there are no negative effects from this build up, but HgSe is

much less toxic than Hg2+.

I don't think that it is known how or if HgSe is excreted by the body. It is

probably dependent on where the HgSe forms. If it is formed in the blood it

might be excreted, but if it is formed in the brain it is likely to be there

for a long time. Finally, I don't know the answer as to whether it is good

or bad to give selenium on days of chelation, but it seems likely to me that

the presence of Se2- in the blood would decrease the binding and excretion

of mercury in the urine by DMPS or DMSA. However, the presence of Se2- in

the blood could increase the fecal excretion of Hg, but I do not know of any

study that addresses this issue.

At 09:04 PM 1/19/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr Haley,

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions about Se

and Hg. As you are well aware, most of the advanced parents have tried many

different forms of chelation and are trying to optimize the best they can. I

understand you may be working on a chelator in your the lab. Any idea on how

long before it could be used by parents?

The reason I ask is that you are well respected by the parents (tough and

sharp crowd as you know). And we look forward to at least hearing progress

on your development. Anything you can share is great.

L

Dr Haley's progress on his new chelator

,

We have completed the synthesis of a compound that binds mercury tighter

than anything else that I know of, but it was not soluble in water. We have

since coupled it to two glutathione molecules (the natural compound that

binds mercury) making it soluble in water. We have tested it and it

definitely clears mercury from water based solutions. We now have to do the

toxicity testing, and it is difficult to get someone to collaborate on this

as most are not interested in mercury chelation. But I will get it done. It

would then have to be clinically tested to get FDA approval and I don't know

how long that would take. Boyd Haley