Re: survival rules

[Guest guest]

Great ideas, all of them. Thank you for sharing.The only one I find unduly optimistic is the assumption behind #2. I am fortunate that I have finally, at 57, found someone I can trust who understands and will help me talk through problems. That means 56 years of not having close friends (or any friends) or being able to confide in family members. Don't assume that every aspie has someone who will listen.AndromedaTo: aspires-relationships From: judy.barrow@...Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 20:07:10 +0100Subject: Re: survival rules

My first draft of 'rules to live by' for Aspergers, would be to

1. Be prepared to explain.

If the situation suits, explain what Aspergers is: don't assume others will accept your behaviours or know the facts about AS.

2. Never fear.

If you are unsure, or you have sensory issues, are frustrated because you feel you are right, are feeling lost - sit down with a close friend or family member and talk it through. Don't hide away or puzzle at it. Seek understanding. Someone will listen.

3. Work out your routines.

What feels safe, what do you hate, what do you aim towards? Set out your ambitions and do something about them, in a way that is feasible. Lists, programmes, and support from others will facilitate this. Above all, a timetable of your plans. This let's others know, too.

4. Accept that meltdowns can happen. (and on a lesser scale, fallouts with others)

If they happen to you, prepare yourself and others and have a system. Set out a place to go if at home; and what to do if you meltdown outside; and afterwards, have a look at the usual triggers; try to avoid these when you can.

5. Know your traits.

Sensory? ( light, smell, touch, noise). Boredom? ( needing stimmies). Lacking in social perception? Match these with avoidance, planned activities, and work on the creative, intelligent stratas of your AS to show what a superb person you are. Don't be appalled if others dont to fall down laughing at your jokes, or be perplexed if they are not instantly in thrall to you, don't try too hard. And try not to despise others. There is a place for everyone, it's quality that counts.

6. Accept that NT's cannot be like you.

NT's can be able to compliment your own traits, and support you to live your life your way, fill in the social gaps, explain how they see the world in a different way.

Well that's my starter pack. Now, everyone, time for you to amend, append, and do your rules to live by- no hard and fast rules, but a set of helpful tools, really. I now bow to you all.

Compiled with no help from Ian, whose reaction was ' you NT's should just let us take over' ( Tongue in cheek...). When he read them he was in agreement, though, and accused me of being a mind reader. A reader of AS minds - now wouldn't that be something. Xx

Judy B, Scotland

Subject: PLEASE READTo: aspires-relationships Date: Friday, 9 September, 2011, 16:17

Hi all,Attacks on members without public apology results in moderation, and since subsequent offlist correspondence indicated no apology was forthcoming, the member was removed. Removal is an extreme last resort, and is a rare and regrettable occurrence on ASPIRES.The thread about survival rules for those of us on the spectrum had potential for an interesting discussion, but quickly took a wrong turn, ironically demonstrating that "communication" tops the list of skills that will make or break an Aspie, or an NT for that matter! Again, we are sorry for the attack made towards CJ, and thank all those who rose to her defense.- HelenModerator of ASPIRESfor , Listowner of ASPIRES

[Guest guest]

> What an awesome list Judy!

Yes. It's a great list.

> The first addition that comes to mind is " reach out, don't be afraid to ask

for help " .. or wording that effect

>

> Sometimes it escapes us Aspies that if we can't solve a problem, and/or we are

overwhelmed, others would help, if only we asked them! When it eventually dawns

on us that we can't handle this alone, we are stuck again because some of us

don't know how to properly for help. I feel embarrassed when I am overwhelmed or

don't have the solution. I don't want to bother people for something that I

" should " know, or " should " be doing myself.

This is the story of my life. I've always tried to handle everything on my own,

because I don't want to be in favor debt and because it it so hard to say " I'm

overwhelmed, help me. "

And when you are an Aspie married to another Aspie, you don't get *any* help

inside the marriage because not only do you not know how to ask, your partner

can't see you need help. Or he's lacking the theory of mind to accept that you

need help in a situation he doesn't need help with.

Since my marriage blew up, I've had no choice but to ask friends for help -- big

help, like camping out at their houses. You know, nothing bad happened. They're

still friends. And I help them when I can ... not to the extent they helped me,

but whenever they ask me, I'm there.

There's a phrase that helps me with this -- pay it forward. If you help me in my

time of need, I'll help someone later -- if not you, then someone else. It

doesn't have to come out even, or be " fair " .

Oh ... I have a car. The woman in my temple did sell it to me, even dropping the

price by the amount another prospective buyer found out the car needed in

repairs. We both helped each other out -- she's leaving the country and had to

sell; I need a car after my accident. We both get what we need, and that's the

way the world should work.

--Liz

Knit Suite: Mobile Apps for Knitters

http://knitsuite.polymathsolution.com

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I'm really sorry about your recent accident. I would have a very hard time

dealing with that myself right now, and I am so happy that you found another car

right away. You deserved that break!

I liked what you said when you asked for help and " nothing bad happened. " I

shall have to try it myself sometime and see what happens, LOL.

I also really liked the concept of " paying it forward " though it still remains a

concept in my mind at the moment. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the

idea of accepting help from someone that in all likelihood, you will not have

the opportunity to pay back in kind, even through I am sure that many times in

your life you have helped others immeasurably, as I am sure everyone has done

here. I have heard this expression ( " pay it forward " ) many times, but it's only

in reading your post and the concrete example you give that I am starting

understand its application. I have a real " caregiver " and " enabler " personality

which I am working with a therapist to deal with now. Thank you for sharing what

must be personally difficult for you to do, and yet, it is a triumph, because

you and your children are safe now.

I want to say that you are an amazingly strong person despite what you have been

through, and you set a very positive example of doing what you need to do to

ensure that you and your children are safe, and can survive.

- Helen

>

> > What an awesome list Judy!

>

> Yes. It's a great list.

>

>

> > The first addition that comes to mind is " reach out, don't be afraid to ask

for help " .. or wording that effect

> >

> > Sometimes it escapes us Aspies that if we can't solve a problem, and/or we

are overwhelmed, others would help, if only we asked them! When it eventually

dawns on us that we can't handle this alone, we are stuck again because some of

us don't know how to properly for help. I feel embarrassed when I am overwhelmed

or don't have the solution. I don't want to bother people for something that I

" should " know, or " should " be doing myself.

>

> This is the story of my life. I've always tried to handle everything on my

own, because I don't want to be in favor debt and because it it so hard to say

" I'm overwhelmed, help me. "

>

> And when you are an Aspie married to another Aspie, you don't get *any* help

inside the marriage because not only do you not know how to ask, your partner

can't see you need help. Or he's lacking the theory of mind to accept that you

need help in a situation he doesn't need help with.

>

> Since my marriage blew up, I've had no choice but to ask friends for help --

big help, like camping out at their houses. You know, nothing bad happened.

They're still friends. And I help them when I can ... not to the extent they

helped me, but whenever they ask me, I'm there.

>

> There's a phrase that helps me with this -- pay it forward. If you help me in

my time of need, I'll help someone later -- if not you, then someone else. It

doesn't have to come out even, or be " fair " .

>

>

> Oh ... I have a car. The woman in my temple did sell it to me, even dropping

the price by the amount another prospective buyer found out the car needed in

repairs. We both helped each other out -- she's leaving the country and had to

sell; I need a car after my accident. We both get what we need, and that's the

way the world should work.

>

> --Liz

>

>

>

>

>

> Knit Suite: Mobile Apps for Knitters

> http://knitsuite.polymathsolution.com

>

[Guest guest]

> I want to say that you are an amazingly strong person despite what you have

been through, and you set a very positive example of doing what you need to do

to ensure that you and your children are safe, and can survive.

> - Helen

Thanks, Helen (sniff). Right now, I need a lot of this kind of positive support.

I don't always get this in real life, as my reserve and desire to handle

everything on my own mean people assume " Liz can manage fine. " Yeah, I do

manage, and do it pretty well, but it's stressful, and I need my attaboys as

much as anyone. I see the people who broadcast their troubles getting help and

comfort; I need the comfort too, but only get it when I ask for help.

This is a very hard lesson for me to learn, as I am fearful of going too far in

the other direction.

--Liz

Knit Suite: Mobile Apps for Knitters

http://knitsuite.polymathsolution.com

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with 's point about Judy's rule #2 being unduly

optimistic. In my opinion, has been very brave and forthcoming

to admit that she spent 57 years of her life without any friends or

anyone to confide in, especially since being in that position is

probably something that most NTs would find it very hard to even imagine.

Our discussions should never forget that close relationships, or the

lack of them, are one of the most significant issues that affect

Aspies' lives.

What struck me, reading through Judy's rules, is how the word " others "

keeps appearing, and this tends to support my theory that non-Aspies

would find it very difficult to even imagine living in a world where

there aren't any " others " .

Aspies are often characterised as being from another planet, and as far

as relationships and close friends are concerned, I would argue that's

true; we might as well be living on Mars, Funnily enough, right

from the time I was a small child, I've always dreamed of going to live

on Mars!!

Of course many Aspies have people around them in their lives and they're

not totally isolated in a physical sense, but this isn't the same as

having close friends and " others " to confide in, in the way that I

suspect Judy's rules rather take for granted.

So I think if our rules are going to be applicable to Aspies as well as

to NTs, we should formulate them with much less assumption that there

is an abundance of " others " around that we can all just turn to.

I certainly don't have any contacts like that myself. I wish I did.

-----------

> Great ideas, all of them. Thank you for sharing.

>

> The only one I find unduly optimistic is the assumption behind #2. I am

> fortunate that I have finally, at 57, found someone I can trust who

> understands and will help me talk through problems. That means 56 years

> of not having close friends (or any friends) or being able to confide in

> family members. Don't assume that every aspie has someone who will listen.

>

> Andromeda

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To: aspires-relationships

> From: judy.barrow@...

> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 20:07:10 +0100

> Subject: Re: survival rules

>

> My first draft of 'rules to live by' for Aspergers, would be to

>

> 1. Be prepared to explain.

> If the situation suits, explain what Aspergers is: don't assume others

> will accept your behaviours or know the facts about AS.

>

> 2. Never fear.

> If you are unsure, or you have sensory issues, are frustrated because

> you feel you are right, are feeling lost - sit down with a close friend

> or family member and talk it through. Don't hide away or puzzle at it.

> Seek understanding. Someone will listen.

>

> 3. Work out your routines.

> What feels safe, what do you hate, what do you aim towards? Set out your

> ambitions and do something about them, in a way that is feasible. Lists,

> programmes, and support from others will facilitate this. Above all, a

> timetable of your plans. This let's others know, too.

>

> 4. Accept that meltdowns can happen. (and on a lesser scale, fallouts

> with others)

> If they happen to you, prepare yourself and others and have a system.

> Set out a place to go if at home; and what to do if you meltdown

> outside; and afterwards, have a look at the usual triggers; try to avoid

> these when you can.

>

> 5. Know your traits.

> Sensory? ( light, smell, touch, noise). Boredom? ( needing stimmies).

> Lacking in social perception? Match these with avoidance, planned

> activities, and work on the creative, intelligent stratas of your AS to

> show what a superb person you are. Don't be appalled if others dont to

> fall down laughing at your jokes, or be perplexed if they are not

> instantly in thrall to you, don't try too hard. And try not to despise

> others. There is a place for everyone, it's quality that counts.

>

> 6. Accept that NT's cannot be like you.

> NT's can be able to compliment your own traits, and support you to live

> your life your way, fill in the social gaps, explain how they see the

> world in a different way.

>

> Well that's my starter pack. Now, everyone, time for you to amend,

> append, and do your rules to live by- no hard and fast rules, but a set

> of helpful tools, really. I now bow to you all.

>

> Compiled with no help from Ian, whose reaction was ' you NT's should

> just let us take over' ( Tongue in cheek...). When he read them he was

> in agreement, though, and accused me of being a mind reader. A reader of

> AS minds - now wouldn't that be something. Xx

>

> Judy B, Scotland

>

>

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with 's point about Judy's rule #2 being unduly

optimistic. In my opinion, has been very brave and forthcoming

to admit that she spent 57 years of her life without any friends or

anyone to confide in, especially since being in that position is

probably something that most NTs would find it very hard to even imagine.

Our discussions should never forget that close relationships, or the

lack of them, are one of the most significant issues that affect

Aspies' lives.

What struck me, reading through Judy's rules, is how the word " others "

keeps appearing, and this tends to support my theory that non-Aspies

would find it very difficult to even imagine living in a world where

there aren't any " others " .

Aspies are often characterised as being from another planet, and as far

as relationships and close friends are concerned, I would argue that's

true; we might as well be living on Mars, Funnily enough, right

from the time I was a small child, I've always dreamed of going to live

on Mars!!

Of course many Aspies have people around them in their lives and they're

not totally isolated in a physical sense, but this isn't the same as

having close friends and " others " to confide in, in the way that I

suspect Judy's rules rather take for granted.

So I think if our rules are going to be applicable to Aspies as well as

to NTs, we should formulate them with much less assumption that there

is an abundance of " others " around that we can all just turn to.

I certainly don't have any contacts like that myself. I wish I did.

-----------

> Great ideas, all of them. Thank you for sharing.

>

> The only one I find unduly optimistic is the assumption behind #2. I am

> fortunate that I have finally, at 57, found someone I can trust who

> understands and will help me talk through problems. That means 56 years

> of not having close friends (or any friends) or being able to confide in

> family members. Don't assume that every aspie has someone who will listen.

>

> Andromeda

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To: aspires-relationships

> From: judy.barrow@...

> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 20:07:10 +0100

> Subject: Re: survival rules

>

> My first draft of 'rules to live by' for Aspergers, would be to

>

> 1. Be prepared to explain.

> If the situation suits, explain what Aspergers is: don't assume others

> will accept your behaviours or know the facts about AS.

>

> 2. Never fear.

> If you are unsure, or you have sensory issues, are frustrated because

> you feel you are right, are feeling lost - sit down with a close friend

> or family member and talk it through. Don't hide away or puzzle at it.

> Seek understanding. Someone will listen.

>

> 3. Work out your routines.

> What feels safe, what do you hate, what do you aim towards? Set out your

> ambitions and do something about them, in a way that is feasible. Lists,

> programmes, and support from others will facilitate this. Above all, a

> timetable of your plans. This let's others know, too.

>

> 4. Accept that meltdowns can happen. (and on a lesser scale, fallouts

> with others)

> If they happen to you, prepare yourself and others and have a system.

> Set out a place to go if at home; and what to do if you meltdown

> outside; and afterwards, have a look at the usual triggers; try to avoid

> these when you can.

>

> 5. Know your traits.

> Sensory? ( light, smell, touch, noise). Boredom? ( needing stimmies).

> Lacking in social perception? Match these with avoidance, planned

> activities, and work on the creative, intelligent stratas of your AS to

> show what a superb person you are. Don't be appalled if others dont to

> fall down laughing at your jokes, or be perplexed if they are not

> instantly in thrall to you, don't try too hard. And try not to despise

> others. There is a place for everyone, it's quality that counts.

>

> 6. Accept that NT's cannot be like you.

> NT's can be able to compliment your own traits, and support you to live

> your life your way, fill in the social gaps, explain how they see the

> world in a different way.

>

> Well that's my starter pack. Now, everyone, time for you to amend,

> append, and do your rules to live by- no hard and fast rules, but a set

> of helpful tools, really. I now bow to you all.

>

> Compiled with no help from Ian, whose reaction was ' you NT's should

> just let us take over' ( Tongue in cheek...). When he read them he was

> in agreement, though, and accused me of being a mind reader. A reader of

> AS minds - now wouldn't that be something. Xx

>

> Judy B, Scotland

>

>