Re: ALERT: ongoing poll threatening our profession

[Guest guest]

I don't think any of the numerous serious agencies I work for, let alone

my direct clients, pay the slightest attention to TranslationDirectory.

They are even mocked within the industry. We have seen all this before,

and I really don't think it 'threatens our profession'.

> Dear Colleagues,

>

> Sorry for the strange header, but I did not know how to draw your

> attention on a poll the preliminary results of which sound catastrophic

> for all of us.

> The question is : *What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?*

>

> Indeed, when I received the e-mail below, I wanted to have a glance at

> the poll and, because the results are shown as short one-line messages,

> I could (and you can) see that most of them state a terribly low

> " minimum rate per source word " , whatever is the language pair.

>

> I may say that, roughly, the mean rate is around Euro 0.03 per source

> word !!!!!!!!!

>

> I even found an English > Chinese rate of 0.025 !!!!!!!!!!

>

> I am convinced that the best to do urgently is that each of us answers

> this poll, stating our minimum European rate.

>

> Indeed, we all know that this portal is among those which offer the jobs

> with the poorest rates, and this poll confirms that most (but not all)

> of the translators subscribing to this site are not living in Europe or

> US, Canada, etc.

>

> But, this is not a reason for not answering this poll, because if it

> goes on like this, it will convince the numerous potential clients who

> make job offers on this site (and elsewhere) that these outrageously low

> rates are the standard in our profession.

>

> I think we must defend ourselves against such practices !

>

> Here is the poll URL :

> http://www.translationdirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>

> And below the mail I received.

>

> Have a nice evening

>

> ---

>

> Dear Translator,

>

> What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?

>

> Please kindly reply by making a single-line posting in our forum,

> specifying your main language pair and rate in EUR, for example:

>

> English to Hindi 0.03

>

> http://www.TranslationDirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>

> Thank you for sharing!

>

>

>

> * GUILLIAUMET - France*

> +33 (0)4 75 88 01 87

> Fax :+33 (0)9 58 73 84 16

> Medical Translations

> Clinical Medicine and Pharmacology - EN, ES, PT > FR

> CGTRADMED <http://www.proz.com/profile/313>

> Moderator of the Medical_Translation

> <http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/medical_translation/>mailing-list

> for Professionals

> Other sites :http://fr.linkedin.com/in/cgtradmed

> http://wwww.viadeo.com/fr/profile/catherine.guilliaumet

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi john,

Le 10/06/2011 10:46, kinory@... a écrit :

> I don't think any of the numerous serious agencies I work for, let alone

> my direct clients, pay the slightest attention to TranslationDirectory.

> They are even mocked within the industry. We have seen all this before,

> and I really don't think it 'threatens our profession'.

>

>

Maybe ...

But, for information, Lionbridge, for instance, is recruiting (till the

end of June) on TranslationDirectory !!

I only hope that you are right.

Have a nice day

>> Dear Colleagues,

>>

>> Sorry for the strange header, but I did not know how to draw your

>> attention on a poll the preliminary results of which sound catastrophic

>> for all of us.

>> The question is : *What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?*

>>

>> Indeed, when I received the e-mail below, I wanted to have a glance at

>> the poll and, because the results are shown as short one-line messages,

>> I could (and you can) see that most of them state a terribly low

>> " minimum rate per source word " , whatever is the language pair.

>>

>> I may say that, roughly, the mean rate is around Euro 0.03 per source

>> word !!!!!!!!!

>>

>> I even found an English> Chinese rate of 0.025 !!!!!!!!!!

>>

>> I am convinced that the best to do urgently is that each of us answers

>> this poll, stating our minimum European rate.

>>

>> Indeed, we all know that this portal is among those which offer the jobs

>> with the poorest rates, and this poll confirms that most (but not all)

>> of the translators subscribing to this site are not living in Europe or

>> US, Canada, etc.

>>

>> But, this is not a reason for not answering this poll, because if it

>> goes on like this, it will convince the numerous potential clients who

>> make job offers on this site (and elsewhere) that these outrageously low

>> rates are the standard in our profession.

>>

>> I think we must defend ourselves against such practices !

>>

>> Here is the poll URL :

>> http://www.translationdirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>

>> And below the mail I received.

>>

>> Have a nice evening

>>

>> ---

>>

>> Dear Translator,

>>

>> What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?

>>

>> Please kindly reply by making a single-line posting in our forum,

>> specifying your main language pair and rate in EUR, for example:

>>

>> English to Hindi 0.03

>>

>> http://www.TranslationDirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>

>> Thank you for sharing!

>>

>>

>>

>> * GUILLIAUMET - France*

>> +33 (0)4 75 88 01 87

>> Fax :+33 (0)9 58 73 84 16

>> Medical Translations

>> Clinical Medicine and Pharmacology - EN, ES, PT> FR

>> CGTRADMED<http://www.proz.com/profile/313>

>> Moderator of the Medical_Translation

>> <http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/medical_translation/>mailing-list

>> for Professionals

>> Other sites :http://fr.linkedin.com/in/cgtradmed

>> http://wwww.viadeo.com/fr/profile/catherine.guilliaumet

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I did say SERIOUS agencies

Cheers,

> Hi john,

>

> Le 10/06/2011 10:46, kinory@... a écrit :

>> I don't think any of the numerous serious agencies I work for, let alone

>> my direct clients, pay the slightest attention to TranslationDirectory.

>> They are even mocked within the industry. We have seen all this before,

>> and I really don't think it 'threatens our profession'.

>>

>>

>

> Maybe ...

> But, for information, Lionbridge, for instance, is recruiting (till the

> end of June) on TranslationDirectory !!

>

> I only hope that you are right.

> Have a nice day

>

>>> Dear Colleagues,

>>>

>>> Sorry for the strange header, but I did not know how to draw your

>>> attention on a poll the preliminary results of which sound catastrophic

>>> for all of us.

>>> The question is : *What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?*

>>>

>>> Indeed, when I received the e-mail below, I wanted to have a glance at

>>> the poll and, because the results are shown as short one-line messages,

>>> I could (and you can) see that most of them state a terribly low

>>> " minimum rate per source word " , whatever is the language pair.

>>>

>>> I may say that, roughly, the mean rate is around Euro 0.03 per source

>>> word !!!!!!!!!

>>>

>>> I even found an English> Chinese rate of 0.025 !!!!!!!!!!

>>>

>>> I am convinced that the best to do urgently is that each of us answers

>>> this poll, stating our minimum European rate.

>>>

>>> Indeed, we all know that this portal is among those which offer the

>>> jobs

>>> with the poorest rates, and this poll confirms that most (but not all)

>>> of the translators subscribing to this site are not living in Europe or

>>> US, Canada, etc.

>>>

>>> But, this is not a reason for not answering this poll, because if it

>>> goes on like this, it will convince the numerous potential clients who

>>> make job offers on this site (and elsewhere) that these outrageously

>>> low

>>> rates are the standard in our profession.

>>>

>>> I think we must defend ourselves against such practices !

>>>

>>> Here is the poll URL :

>>> http://www.translationdirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>>

>>> And below the mail I received.

>>>

>>> Have a nice evening

>>>

>>> ---

>>>

>>> Dear Translator,

>>>

>>> What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?

>>>

>>> Please kindly reply by making a single-line posting in our forum,

>>> specifying your main language pair and rate in EUR, for example:

>>>

>>> English to Hindi 0.03

>>>

>>> http://www.TranslationDirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>>

>>> Thank you for sharing!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> * GUILLIAUMET - France*

>>> +33 (0)4 75 88 01 87

>>> Fax :+33 (0)9 58 73 84 16

>>> Medical Translations

>>> Clinical Medicine and Pharmacology - EN, ES, PT> FR

>>> CGTRADMED<http://www.proz.com/profile/313>

>>> Moderator of the Medical_Translation

>>> <http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/medical_translation/>mailing-list

>>> for Professionals

>>> Other sites :http://fr.linkedin.com/in/cgtradmed

>>> http://wwww.viadeo.com/fr/profile/catherine.guilliaumet

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Now I know why I am almost out of business charging never less than 0.08

but on average 0.13 to 0.18

Chrys CHRYSTELLO, An Australian in the Azores/Um Australiano nos Açores

(Portugal)

drchryschrystello@... ; drchryschrystello@...;

drchryschrystello@...

Homepage/página : http://oz2.com.sapo.pt ///

Homepage Colloquia/Colóquios: www.lusofonias.net

Blogue: http://coloquioslusofonia.blogspot.com/

YAHOO GRUPO: LUSOFONIA-AICL

SUBSCREVER: LUSOFONIA-AICL-subscribe

aderir AICL: http://www.lusofonias.net/menu%20do%20site.htm

> I don't think any of the numerous serious agencies I work for, let alone

> my direct clients, pay the slightest attention to TranslationDirectory.

> They are even mocked within the industry. We have seen all this before,

> and I really don't think it 'threatens our profession'.

>

>

>

>> Dear Colleagues,

>>

>> Sorry for the strange header, but I did not know how to draw your

>> attention on a poll the preliminary results of which sound catastrophic

>> for all of us.

>> The question is : *What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?*

>>

>> Indeed, when I received the e-mail below, I wanted to have a glance at

>> the poll and, because the results are shown as short one-line messages,

>> I could (and you can) see that most of them state a terribly low

>> " minimum rate per source word " , whatever is the language pair.

>>

>> I may say that, roughly, the mean rate is around Euro 0.03 per source

>> word !!!!!!!!!

>>

>> I even found an English> Chinese rate of 0.025 !!!!!!!!!!

>>

>> I am convinced that the best to do urgently is that each of us answers

>> this poll, stating our minimum European rate.

>>

>> Indeed, we all know that this portal is among those which offer the jobs

>> with the poorest rates, and this poll confirms that most (but not all)

>> of the translators subscribing to this site are not living in Europe or

>> US, Canada, etc.

>>

>> But, this is not a reason for not answering this poll, because if it

>> goes on like this, it will convince the numerous potential clients who

>> make job offers on this site (and elsewhere) that these outrageously low

>> rates are the standard in our profession.

>>

>> I think we must defend ourselves against such practices !

>>

>> Here is the poll URL :

>> http://www.translationdirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>

>> And below the mail I received.

>>

>> Have a nice evening

>>

>> ---

>>

>> Dear Translator,

>>

>> What is your minimum rate per source word, in EUR?

>>

>> Please kindly reply by making a single-line posting in our forum,

>> specifying your main language pair and rate in EUR, for example:

>>

>> English to Hindi 0.03

>>

>> http://www.TranslationDirectory.com/forum/messages/?1162

>>

>> Thank you for sharing!

>>

>>

>>

>> * GUILLIAUMET - France*

>> +33 (0)4 75 88 01 87

>> Fax :+33 (0)9 58 73 84 16

>> Medical Translations

>> Clinical Medicine and Pharmacology - EN, ES, PT> FR

>> CGTRADMED<http://www.proz.com/profile/313>

>> Moderator of the Medical_Translation

>> <http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/medical_translation/>mailing-list

>> for Professionals

>> Other sites :http://fr.linkedin.com/in/cgtradmed

>> http://wwww.viadeo.com/fr/profile/catherine.guilliaumet

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

averages.

But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the equivalent

of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency rates

are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day. There

are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing to pay

for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent translation/writing

skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average " small

business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive out the

high end businesses.

Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when they

start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator who is

both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to marketing will

eventually leave the low rates behind.

--

Dawn Montague, Translator

German, French, Italian > US English

Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

Muncie, Indiana, USA

Phone/Fax: 1-

Email: dawn.montague@...

For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

Current time zone: GMT -5*

*

[Guest guest]

I can echo every word below.

But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical Eng>Heb.

> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

> averages.

>

> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

> equivalent

> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency rates

> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day. There

> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing to

> pay

> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

> translation/writing

> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average " small

> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive out

> the

> high end businesses.

>

> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when they

> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator who

> is

> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to marketing will

> eventually leave the low rates behind.

>

> --

> Dawn Montague, Translator

> German, French, Italian > US English

> Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> Muncie, Indiana, USA

> Phone/Fax: 1-

> Email: dawn.montague@...

> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> Current time zone: GMT -5*

> *

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much translate from

relatively common European languages into English (one of them French to

English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills to

direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying that

everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but knowing the

top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And knowing

that those people are almost never without work should give us some food for

thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I really

wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got jumped about

3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

For more information from reliable sources, look here:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

http://prosperoustranslator.com/

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

Dawn

>

>

> I can echo every word below.

> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical Eng>Heb.

>

>

>

> > I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

> > averages.

> >

> > But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

> > equivalent

> > of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency

> rates

> > are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day. There

> > are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing to

> > pay

> > for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

> > translation/writing

> > skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average " small

> > business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive out

> > the

> > high end businesses.

> >

> > Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when they

> > start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator who

> > is

> > both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to marketing

> will

> > eventually leave the low rates behind.

> >

> > --

> > Dawn Montague, Translator

> > German, French, Italian > US English

> > Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> > Muncie, Indiana, USA

> > Phone/Fax: 1-

> > Email: dawn.montague@...

> > For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> > Current time zone: GMT -5*

>

> > *

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Dawn,

I love your contributions ! Thank you :-)

Le 10/06/2011 13:55, Dawn Montague a écrit :

> Hi ,

>

> Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much translate from

> relatively common European languages into English (one of them French to

> English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills to

> direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying that

> everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but knowing the

> top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And knowing

> that those people are almost never without work should give us some food for

> thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I really

> wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got jumped about

> 3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

>

> For more information from reliable sources, look here:

> http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

> http://prosperoustranslator.com/

>

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

>>

>> I can echo every word below.

>> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

>> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical Eng>Heb.

>>

>>

>>

>>> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

>>> averages.

>>>

>>> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

>>> equivalent

>>> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency

>> rates

>>> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day. There

>>> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing to

>>> pay

>>> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

>>> translation/writing

>>> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average " small

>>> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive out

>>> the

>>> high end businesses.

>>>

>>> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when they

>>> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator who

>>> is

>>> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to marketing

>> will

>>> eventually leave the low rates behind.

>>>

>>> --

>>> Dawn Montague, Translator

>>> German, French, Italian> US English

>>> Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

>>> Muncie, Indiana, USA

>>> Phone/Fax: 1-

>>> Email: dawn.montague@...

>>> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

>>> Current time zone: GMT -5*

>>> *

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome, .

It took me a while to learn these things.

To me, protecting the profession means

1) helping beginners become the best translators they can be,

2) making sure that those in the profession have a realistic view of the

*whole* market and its intricacies (not just the lower end of it).

3) learning effective marketing techniques.

These are all positive, proactive measures, and each of us can do his or her

part.

By the way, , some of those huge companies like Lionbridge might not be

so bad to work for if you are stubborn about keeping your rates up. Did

anyone here ever stop to think that these huge multinational companies

actually subcontract a lot (or even most) of their work to agencies? This is

how we get long strings of subcontractors with several agencies between the

end client and the translator on the bottom - a deplorable situation - but

one that the individual translator can do his or her part to counteract!

Think about it - if you are an individual translator working directly for

one of these big companies, you may be able to demand a much higher rate

(after all, they pay agency rates to agencies....). It takes proof of

quality (yes, they appreciate quality - bad translations mean a lot of extra

cost and lost clients). It also takes expertise in your area of

specialization plus the stubbornness to wait until they come around to your

price, but it works. I can personally testify to it. And you don't have to

agree to discounts or rate cuts when they send out emails asking for them.

You can politely say no.

I have never lost a client by saying no to a request for an across the board

rate cut like the infamous ones we have seen in the past year or two from

Lionbridge, BigWord or Transperfect (I did stop working for an agency when

the vendor contract was updated and contained unacceptable terms, however,

even though they were willing to pay my rate). And I have never ever said

yes to such a rate cut. You might get less work from that particular agency

for a while, but you insure yourself against the consequences of less work

from one client by making sure you have plenty of others.

Onward and upward! With the rates, that is :-)

--

Dawn Montague, Translator

German, French, Italian > US English

Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

Muncie, Indiana, USA

Phone/Fax: 1-

Email: dawn.montague@...

For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

Current time zone: GMT -5

>

>

> Dear Dawn,

> I love your contributions ! Thank you :-)

>

>

> Le 10/06/2011 13:55, Dawn Montague a écrit :

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much translate

> from

> > relatively common European languages into English (one of them French to

> > English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills to

> > direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying that

> > everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but knowing

> the

> > top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And

> knowing

> > that those people are almost never without work should give us some food

> for

> > thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I really

> > wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got jumped

> about

> > 3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

> >

> > For more information from reliable sources, look here:

> >

> http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

> > http://prosperoustranslator.com/

> >

>

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> I can echo every word below.

> >> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

> >> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical

> Eng>Heb.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

> >>> averages.

> >>>

> >>> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

> >>> equivalent

> >>> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency

> >> rates

> >>> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day.

> There

> >>> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing to

> >>> pay

> >>> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

> >>> translation/writing

> >>> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average " small

> >>> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive out

> >>> the

> >>> high end businesses.

> >>>

> >>> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when they

> >>> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator

> who

> >>> is

> >>> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to marketing

> >> will

> >>> eventually leave the low rates behind.

> >>>

> >>> --

> >>> Dawn Montague, Translator

> >>> German, French, Italian> US English

> >>> Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> >>> Muncie, Indiana, USA

> >>> Phone/Fax: 1-

> >>> Email: dawn.montague@...

> >>> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> >>> Current time zone: GMT -5*

> >>> *

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Trust me, few people are more stubborn than me when it comes to keeping my

rates up. I have explained all this to Lionbridge, BigMouth and T-P any

number of times. Lionbridge and T-P have been far more amenable to

sensible negotiations than BigMouth, but I stopped working for L-B a few

years ago after endless messing about re timely payments, ditto T-P. A few

months ago I started doing the odd job for T-P again, but had to stop

after being messed about re payments and jobs going elsewhere in the

middle of what I had thought were bona fide ongoing negotiations (mostly

re deadlines). Those two are downright Byzantine in their approach, and I

am really far too busy to waste time on such nonsense.

> You are very welcome, .

>

> It took me a while to learn these things.

>

> To me, protecting the profession means

> 1) helping beginners become the best translators they can be,

> 2) making sure that those in the profession have a realistic view of the

> *whole* market and its intricacies (not just the lower end of it).

> 3) learning effective marketing techniques.

> These are all positive, proactive measures, and each of us can do his or

> her

> part.

>

> By the way, , some of those huge companies like Lionbridge might not

> be

> so bad to work for if you are stubborn about keeping your rates up. Did

> anyone here ever stop to think that these huge multinational companies

> actually subcontract a lot (or even most) of their work to agencies? This

> is

> how we get long strings of subcontractors with several agencies between

> the

> end client and the translator on the bottom - a deplorable situation - but

> one that the individual translator can do his or her part to counteract!

>

> Think about it - if you are an individual translator working directly for

> one of these big companies, you may be able to demand a much higher rate

> (after all, they pay agency rates to agencies....). It takes proof of

> quality (yes, they appreciate quality - bad translations mean a lot of

> extra

> cost and lost clients). It also takes expertise in your area of

> specialization plus the stubbornness to wait until they come around to

> your

> price, but it works. I can personally testify to it. And you don't have to

> agree to discounts or rate cuts when they send out emails asking for them.

> You can politely say no.

> I have never lost a client by saying no to a request for an across the

> board

> rate cut like the infamous ones we have seen in the past year or two from

> Lionbridge, BigWord or Transperfect (I did stop working for an agency when

> the vendor contract was updated and contained unacceptable terms, however,

> even though they were willing to pay my rate). And I have never ever said

> yes to such a rate cut. You might get less work from that particular

> agency

> for a while, but you insure yourself against the consequences of less work

> from one client by making sure you have plenty of others.

>

> Onward and upward! With the rates, that is :-)

>

> --

> Dawn Montague, Translator

> German, French, Italian > US English

> Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> Muncie, Indiana, USA

> Phone/Fax: 1-

> Email: dawn.montague@...

> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> Current time zone: GMT -5

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>>

>> Dear Dawn,

>> I love your contributions ! Thank you :-)

>>

>>

>> Le 10/06/2011 13:55, Dawn Montague a écrit :

>>

>> > Hi ,

>> >

>> > Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much

>> translate

>> from

>> > relatively common European languages into English (one of them French

>> to

>> > English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills

>> to

>> > direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying that

>> > everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but knowing

>> the

>> > top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And

>> knowing

>> > that those people are almost never without work should give us some

>> food

>> for

>> > thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I

>> really

>> > wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got jumped

>> about

>> > 3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

>> >

>> > For more information from reliable sources, look here:

>> >

>>

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

>> > http://prosperoustranslator.com/

>> >

>>

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

>> >

>> > Dawn

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >>

>> >> I can echo every word below.

>> >> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

>> >> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical

>> Eng>Heb.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

>> >>> averages.

>> >>>

>> >>> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

>> >>> equivalent

>> >>> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency

>> >> rates

>> >>> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day.

>> There

>> >>> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing

>> to

>> >>> pay

>> >>> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

>> >>> translation/writing

>> >>> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average "

>> small

>> >>> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive

>> out

>> >>> the

>> >>> high end businesses.

>> >>>

>> >>> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when

>> they

>> >>> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator

>> who

>> >>> is

>> >>> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to

>> marketing

>> >> will

>> >>> eventually leave the low rates behind.

>> >>>

>> >>> --

>> >>> Dawn Montague, Translator

>> >>> German, French, Italian> US English

>> >>> Translations and project management for business, industry and

>> medicine

>> >>> Muncie, Indiana, USA

>> >>> Phone/Fax: 1-

>> >>> Email: dawn.montague@...

>> >>> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

>> >>> Current time zone: GMT -5*

>> >>> *

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Understood - if I'd had a similar experience, I'd feel the same way.

Dawn

>

>

> Hi Dawn,

> Trust me, few people are more stubborn than me when it comes to keeping my

> rates up. I have explained all this to Lionbridge, BigMouth and T-P any

> number of times. Lionbridge and T-P have been far more amenable to

> sensible negotiations than BigMouth, but I stopped working for L-B a few

> years ago after endless messing about re timely payments, ditto T-P. A few

> months ago I started doing the odd job for T-P again, but had to stop

> after being messed about re payments and jobs going elsewhere in the

> middle of what I had thought were bona fide ongoing negotiations (mostly

> re deadlines). Those two are downright Byzantine in their approach, and I

> am really far too busy to waste time on such nonsense.

>

>

>

> > You are very welcome, .

> >

> > It took me a while to learn these things.

> >

> > To me, protecting the profession means

> > 1) helping beginners become the best translators they can be,

> > 2) making sure that those in the profession have a realistic view of the

> > *whole* market and its intricacies (not just the lower end of it).

> > 3) learning effective marketing techniques.

> > These are all positive, proactive measures, and each of us can do his or

> > her

> > part.

> >

> > By the way, , some of those huge companies like Lionbridge might not

> > be

> > so bad to work for if you are stubborn about keeping your rates up. Did

> > anyone here ever stop to think that these huge multinational companies

> > actually subcontract a lot (or even most) of their work to agencies? This

> > is

> > how we get long strings of subcontractors with several agencies between

> > the

> > end client and the translator on the bottom - a deplorable situation -

> but

> > one that the individual translator can do his or her part to counteract!

> >

> > Think about it - if you are an individual translator working directly for

> > one of these big companies, you may be able to demand a much higher rate

> > (after all, they pay agency rates to agencies....). It takes proof of

> > quality (yes, they appreciate quality - bad translations mean a lot of

> > extra

> > cost and lost clients). It also takes expertise in your area of

> > specialization plus the stubbornness to wait until they come around to

> > your

> > price, but it works. I can personally testify to it. And you don't have

> to

> > agree to discounts or rate cuts when they send out emails asking for

> them.

> > You can politely say no.

> > I have never lost a client by saying no to a request for an across the

> > board

> > rate cut like the infamous ones we have seen in the past year or two from

> > Lionbridge, BigWord or Transperfect (I did stop working for an agency

> when

> > the vendor contract was updated and contained unacceptable terms,

> however,

> > even though they were willing to pay my rate). And I have never ever said

> > yes to such a rate cut. You might get less work from that particular

> > agency

> > for a while, but you insure yourself against the consequences of less

> work

> > from one client by making sure you have plenty of others.

> >

> > Onward and upward! With the rates, that is :-)

> >

> > --

> > Dawn Montague, Translator

> > German, French, Italian > US English

> > Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> > Muncie, Indiana, USA

> > Phone/Fax: 1-

> > Email: dawn.montague@...

> > For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> > Current time zone: GMT -5

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Dawn,

> >> I love your contributions ! Thank you :-)

> >>

> >>

> >> Le 10/06/2011 13:55, Dawn Montague a écrit :

> >>

> >> > Hi ,

> >> >

> >> > Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much

> >> translate

> >> from

> >> > relatively common European languages into English (one of them French

> >> to

> >> > English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills

> >> to

> >> > direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying that

> >> > everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but knowing

> >> the

> >> > top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And

> >> knowing

> >> > that those people are almost never without work should give us some

> >> food

> >> for

> >> > thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I

> >> really

> >> > wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got jumped

> >> about

> >> > 3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

> >> >

> >> > For more information from reliable sources, look here:

> >> >

> >>

> http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

> >> > http://prosperoustranslator.com/

> >> >

> >>

>

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

> >> >

> >> > Dawn

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >> I can echo every word below.

> >> >> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

> >> >> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical

> >> Eng>Heb.

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off the

> >> >>> averages.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

> >> >>> equivalent

> >> >>> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My agency

> >> >> rates

> >> >>> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every day.

> >> There

> >> >>> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are willing

> >> to

> >> >>> pay

> >> >>> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

> >> >>> translation/writing

> >> >>> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average "

> >> small

> >> >>> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't drive

> >> out

> >> >>> the

> >> >>> high end businesses.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when

> >> they

> >> >>> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the translator

> >> who

> >> >>> is

> >> >>> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to

> >> marketing

> >> >> will

> >> >>> eventually leave the low rates behind.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> --

> >> >>> Dawn Montague, Translator

> >> >>> German, French, Italian> US English

> >> >>> Translations and project management for business, industry and

> >> medicine

> >> >>> Muncie, Indiana, USA

> >> >>> Phone/Fax: 1-

> >> >>> Email: dawn.montague@...

> >> >>> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> >> >>> Current time zone: GMT -5*

> >> >>> *

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

> >> >>>

[Guest guest]

@,

Please note that T-P do not even pay their in house PMs and have a large in

house staff turnaround. They are banned anyway.

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Dawn Montague wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Understood - if I'd had a similar experience, I'd feel the same way.

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Dawn,

> > Trust me, few people are more stubborn than me when it comes to keeping

> my

> > rates up. I have explained all this to Lionbridge, BigMouth and T-P any

> > number of times. Lionbridge and T-P have been far more amenable to

> > sensible negotiations than BigMouth, but I stopped working for L-B a few

> > years ago after endless messing about re timely payments, ditto T-P. A

> few

> > months ago I started doing the odd job for T-P again, but had to stop

> > after being messed about re payments and jobs going elsewhere in the

> > middle of what I had thought were bona fide ongoing negotiations (mostly

> > re deadlines). Those two are downright Byzantine in their approach, and I

> > am really far too busy to waste time on such nonsense.

> >

> >

> >

> > > You are very welcome, .

> > >

> > > It took me a while to learn these things.

> > >

> > > To me, protecting the profession means

> > > 1) helping beginners become the best translators they can be,

> > > 2) making sure that those in the profession have a realistic view of

> the

> > > *whole* market and its intricacies (not just the lower end of it).

> > > 3) learning effective marketing techniques.

> > > These are all positive, proactive measures, and each of us can do his

> or

> > > her

> > > part.

> > >

> > > By the way, , some of those huge companies like Lionbridge might

> not

> > > be

> > > so bad to work for if you are stubborn about keeping your rates up. Did

> > > anyone here ever stop to think that these huge multinational companies

> > > actually subcontract a lot (or even most) of their work to agencies?

> This

> > > is

> > > how we get long strings of subcontractors with several agencies between

> > > the

> > > end client and the translator on the bottom - a deplorable situation -

> > but

> > > one that the individual translator can do his or her part to

> counteract!

> > >

> > > Think about it - if you are an individual translator working directly

> for

> > > one of these big companies, you may be able to demand a much higher

> rate

> > > (after all, they pay agency rates to agencies....). It takes proof of

> > > quality (yes, they appreciate quality - bad translations mean a lot of

> > > extra

> > > cost and lost clients). It also takes expertise in your area of

> > > specialization plus the stubbornness to wait until they come around to

> > > your

> > > price, but it works. I can personally testify to it. And you don't have

> > to

> > > agree to discounts or rate cuts when they send out emails asking for

> > them.

> > > You can politely say no.

> > > I have never lost a client by saying no to a request for an across the

> > > board

> > > rate cut like the infamous ones we have seen in the past year or two

> from

> > > Lionbridge, BigWord or Transperfect (I did stop working for an agency

> > when

> > > the vendor contract was updated and contained unacceptable terms,

> > however,

> > > even though they were willing to pay my rate). And I have never ever

> said

> > > yes to such a rate cut. You might get less work from that particular

> > > agency

> > > for a while, but you insure yourself against the consequences of less

> > work

> > > from one client by making sure you have plenty of others.

> > >

> > > Onward and upward! With the rates, that is :-)

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dawn Montague, Translator

> > > German, French, Italian > US English

> > > Translations and project management for business, industry and medicine

> > > Muncie, Indiana, USA

> > > Phone/Fax: 1-

> > > Email: dawn.montague@...

> > > For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> > > Current time zone: GMT -5

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Dear Dawn,

> > >> I love your contributions ! Thank you :-)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Le 10/06/2011 13:55, Dawn Montague a écrit :

> > >>

> > >> > Hi ,

> > >> >

> > >> > Actually, the two translators that I do know charge that much

> > >> translate

> > >> from

> > >> > relatively common European languages into English (one of them

> French

> > >> to

> > >> > English). It's a matter of specialization, superior marketing skills

> > >> to

> > >> > direct clients only, and excellent writing skills. I'm not saying

> that

> > >> > everyone can do that well with rates (I'm certainly not) - but

> knowing

> > >> the

> > >> > top of the market might encourage us all to be more rate savvy. And

> > >> knowing

> > >> > that those people are almost never without work should give us some

> > >> food

> > >> for

> > >> > thought. Once I got the gumption to post the direct client rates I

> > >> really

> > >> > wanted on my ProZ site, the number of personal inquiries I got

> jumped

> > >> about

> > >> > 3-fold, and some of them actually turn into jobs.

> > >> >

> > >> > For more information from reliable sources, look here:

> > >> >

> > >>

> >

> http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/sep2004/sb20040928_3743_sb006.htm

> > >> > http://prosperoustranslator.com/

> > >> >

> > >>

> >

>

http://thoughtsontranslation.com/2008/08/20/online-translation-income-calculator\

/

> > >> >

> > >> > Dawn

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >>

> > >> >> I can echo every word below.

> > >> >> But USD 0.60/word? Is that for Swedish>Japanese?

> > >> >> I charge direct clients a lot less than that for highly technical

> > >> Eng>Heb.

> > >> >>

> > >> >>

> > >> >>

> > >> >>> I did put my minimum direct client rate up - I love throwing off

> the

> > >> >>> averages.

> > >> >>>

> > >> >>> But seriously, there are translators out there charging up to the

> > >> >>> equivalent

> > >> >>> of 60 cents per word USD, and they have work all the time. My

> agency

> > >> >> rates

> > >> >>> are relatively high, and I have to turn down work almost every

> day.

> > >> There

> > >> >>> are still both agencies and direct clients out there who are

> willing

> > >> to

> > >> >>> pay

> > >> >>> for quality. *Good marketing strategies *and* excellent

> > >> >>> translation/writing

> > >> >>> skills* will get you work. Walmart will drive out the " average "

> > >> small

> > >> >>> business, and while that may disturb and anger me, they can't

> drive

> > >> out

> > >> >>> the

> > >> >>> high end businesses.

> > >> >>>

> > >> >>> Also, many, many beginners are " market naive " and undercharge when

> > >> they

> > >> >>> start out (including me) - but given some experience, the

> translator

> > >> who

> > >> >>> is

> > >> >>> both good at his or her job and persistent when it comes to

> > >> marketing

> > >> >> will

> > >> >>> eventually leave the low rates behind.

> > >> >>>

> > >> >>> --

> > >> >>> Dawn Montague, Translator

> > >> >>> German, French, Italian> US English

> > >> >>> Translations and project management for business, industry and

> > >> medicine

> > >> >>> Muncie, Indiana, USA

> > >> >>> Phone/Fax: 1-

> > >> >>> Email: dawn.montague@...

> > >> >>> For availability, please see: www.proz.com/profile/10861

> > >> >>> Current time zone: GMT -5*

> > >> >>> *

> > >> >>>

> > >> >>>

> > >> >>>

[Guest guest]

> Please note that T-P do not even pay their in house PMs

Are you saying they are unpaid interns?

That would explain a lot.

> They are banned anyway.

Not with you. Banned by whom?