Re: Sr>Eng Neurology: AG, kardiorespiratorno kompenzirana

[Guest guest]

> 2. kardiorespiratorno kompenzirana

> This is the first finding under the general physical exam.

> I don't know how to make cardiopulmonary an adverb. Cariopulmonarily

> compensated? Compensated cardiopulmonary status?

> Or could I rephrase to " cardiopulmonary compensation noted " ?

The latter would work (can you use 'observed'?). Or maybe just the bald

statement: " Cardiopulmonary compensation " .

I have similar problems when translating from Hebrew (haemodynamically and

* respirationally * stable).

[Guest guest]

>

> This is a Serbian neurology exam. Two questions. Job due today at 5pm EST.

>

> 1. After vision and cranial nerves and before gross motor strength there

is this: U AG lijeva ruka nize polozena.

> Approximately: In *AG* the left arm is positioned lower.

> I wonder if this could stand for analiza gradja, or stature analysis. Has

anyone come across any such phrase in English, or know of a test or

assessment that would result in such a finding (left arm hangs lower)?

Perhaps I can work backwards.

Maybe " postural analysis " .

> 2. kardiorespiratorno kompenzirana

> This is the first finding under the general physical exam.

> I don't know how to make cardiopulmonary an adverb. Cardiopulmonarily

compensated? Compensated cardiopulmonary status?

> Or could I rephrase to " cardiopulmonary compensation noted " ?

I'd go with " cardiopulmonary compensation " instead of inventing new

English. Solving problems like this are also a frequent issue with very

un-English source languages like Japanese.

> oh wait, here's a third question: palcoanestezija, which literally

translates to " big-toe anesthesia "

> 3. Hipoestezija na oba donja ekstremiteta uz palcoanestezija i poremecaj

propriocepcije.

> Does this sound reasonable: " Hypoesthesia of both lower extremities with

sensory loss of the big toes and impairment of proprioception. "

I would write " ...sensory loss in the big toes... "

> Because both extremities are mentioned, I am assuming both big toes are

involved. To be as ambiguous as the original, I would have to say " big toe

sensory loss " or something similar. (Good name for a band, maybe.)

" Concatenative " type source languages such as Slavic (specifically

Russian, I guess also Serbian) and to a lesser extent German, require a some

expansion when going into proper English.

Whoops, there I go inventing new English!

On the other hand, if this is dictated directly from an exam, even in

English we get that sort of clipped style, and I wouldn't be too surprised

to see " big toe sensory loss " in a physician's notes. Or on the marquee of

a music venue ;-)

Schlecht

[Guest guest]

Thanks, and Matt!

1. Postural analysis seems to fit the context and the abbreviation. I will put a

note in the translation to the effect that the abbreviation is unconfirmed, but

the context suggests ...

2. I'll go with the two word phrase, as you both suggested, cardiopulmonary

compensation.

3. Sensory loss in the big toes, then.

Matt, maybe we can book Big Toe Sensory Loss for the DVTA picnic this summer.

;v)

Also, a correction -- this is a Croatian medical report, not Serbian. But that

would not affect the questions/answers above.

More generally, has anyone run across a dictionary of medical word combinations

(English) that would help with determining the correct preposition to use with

certain verbs and nouns (hypoesthesia of..., sensory loss in...)? I spend a fair

amount of time googling word combinations in quotation marks trying to figure

out these details of correct medical phrasing.

That said/asked, here are two sites I've run across for medical

transcriptionists that have been useful:

http://www.mtdesk.com/tiki-index.php

http://www.mtsamples.com/

Best regards,

a

> >

> > This is a Serbian neurology exam. Two questions. Job due today at 5pm EST.

> >

> > 1. After vision and cranial nerves and before gross motor strength there

> is this: U AG lijeva ruka nize polozena.

> > Approximately: In *AG* the left arm is positioned lower.

> > I wonder if this could stand for analiza gradja, or stature analysis. Has

> anyone come across any such phrase in English, or know of a test or

> assessment that would result in such a finding (left arm hangs lower)?

> Perhaps I can work backwards.

>

> Maybe " postural analysis " .

>

> > 2. kardiorespiratorno kompenzirana

> > This is the first finding under the general physical exam.

> > I don't know how to make cardiopulmonary an adverb. Cardiopulmonarily

> compensated? Compensated cardiopulmonary status?

> > Or could I rephrase to " cardiopulmonary compensation noted " ?

>

> I'd go with " cardiopulmonary compensation " instead of inventing new

> English. Solving problems like this are also a frequent issue with very

> un-English source languages like Japanese.

>

> > oh wait, here's a third question: palcoanestezija, which literally

> translates to " big-toe anesthesia "

> > 3. Hipoestezija na oba donja ekstremiteta uz palcoanestezija i poremecaj

> propriocepcije.

> > Does this sound reasonable: " Hypoesthesia of both lower extremities with

> sensory loss of the big toes and impairment of proprioception. "

>

> I would write " ...sensory loss in the big toes... "

>

> > Because both extremities are mentioned, I am assuming both big toes are

> involved. To be as ambiguous as the original, I would have to say " big toe

> sensory loss " or something similar. (Good name for a band, maybe.)

>

> " Concatenative " type source languages such as Slavic (specifically

> Russian, I guess also Serbian) and to a lesser extent German, require a some

> expansion when going into proper English.

> Whoops, there I go inventing new English!

>

> On the other hand, if this is dictated directly from an exam, even in

> English we get that sort of clipped style, and I wouldn't be too surprised

> to see " big toe sensory loss " in a physician's notes. Or on the marquee of

> a music venue ;-)

>

> Schlecht

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In American (medicolese)jargon the general term for the way the body hangs

together would be " station " , although " posture " could be used fluently in the

same way, with perhaps better universal comprehension. HOWEVER, in this context,

i.e. directly after the evaluation of the cranial nerves and before gross motor

strength, and given the result noted by the examiner " left shoulder hangs

lower " , it is definitely an evaluation of the eleventh cranial nerve, the

Accessory Nerve, which controls the sternocleidomastoid and trapezius muscles,

directly affecting shoulder station and muscular action/strength.

> > Approximately: In *AG* the left arm is positioned lower.

> assessment that would result in such a finding (left arm hangs lower)?

= = = = =

Cardiolpulomonary compensation is fluent and usable, although I am not sure I

understand the original reference.

>I'd go with " cardiopulmonary compensation " instead of inventing new

>English.Solving problems like this are also a frequent issue with

= = = = = = =

" Big toe " is a bit clumsy in formal medical jargon, although universally

comprehensible. Most American providers are taught to use " first digit " etc.,

but it is an artificial usage for formal medical publications and almost

everyone would default to the common speech usage of " toe " (likewise finger) in

conversational situations or verbal presentations. " Great " or " first " toe are

also frequently heard - sometimes in written documents. Most importantly

however, formal usage (and for clarity) numbers the fingers and toes. Thumb and

great toe are first digits, but commonly default to " big toe " and " thumb " almost

everywhere, with second finger(digit), third finger/toe, fourth finger/toe etc

in common and formal medicolese.

Clinically one could encounter hypesthesia of/in either one big toe or both big

toes at the same time and in the same patient. Proprioception is more commonly

bilateral (if I am computing adequately this morning).

= = = = =

Forgive the pedantry if this is common knowledge.

YES = This sounds reasonable = " Hypoesthesia of both lower extremities with

sensory loss in the big toes and impairment of proprioception. "

[Guest guest]

Renzo,

Thank you for the explanations, which definitely are helpful to me. It's

interesting how many terms there are for one body part, especially such a small

one. I thought about great toe or hallux, but I decided to opt for common usage.

Had this been expressed with more words (and it could have been), I may have

decided to use a higher register term, but palac is a common term for digitus

primus pedis and manus.

Regarding shoulder station - I wish I could make it fit, but the initials don't

line up with AG in Croatian. I will look into this further, but unfortunately

don't have time to confirm the abbreviation before my deadline. I *think* that

the finding (left arm lower) will be sufficient for the client. If not, I'm sure

they'll get back to me!

Thank you again,

a

>

> In American (medicolese)jargon the general term for the way the body hangs

together would be " station " , although " posture " could be used fluently in the

same way, with perhaps better universal comprehension. HOWEVER, in this context,

i.e. directly after the evaluation of the cranial nerves and before gross motor

strength, and given the result noted by the examiner " left shoulder hangs

lower " , it is definitely an evaluation of the eleventh cranial nerve, the

Accessory Nerve, which controls the sternocleidomastoid and trapezius muscles,

directly affecting shoulder station and muscular action/strength.

>

> > > Approximately: In *AG* the left arm is positioned lower.

> > assessment that would result in such a finding (left arm hangs lower)?

>

> = = = = =

>

> Cardiolpulomonary compensation is fluent and usable, although I am not sure I

understand the original reference.

>

> >I'd go with " cardiopulmonary compensation " instead of inventing new

> >English.Solving problems like this are also a frequent issue with

>

> = = = = = = =

>

> " Big toe " is a bit clumsy in formal medical jargon, although universally

comprehensible. Most American providers are taught to use " first digit " etc.,

but it is an artificial usage for formal medical publications and almost

everyone would default to the common speech usage of " toe " (likewise finger) in

conversational situations or verbal presentations. " Great " or " first " toe are

also frequently heard - sometimes in written documents. Most importantly

however, formal usage (and for clarity) numbers the fingers and toes. Thumb and

great toe are first digits, but commonly default to " big toe " and " thumb " almost

everywhere, with second finger(digit), third finger/toe, fourth finger/toe etc

in common and formal medicolese.

> Clinically one could encounter hypesthesia of/in either one big toe or both

big toes at the same time and in the same patient. Proprioception is more

commonly bilateral (if I am computing adequately this morning).

>

> = = = = =

> Forgive the pedantry if this is common knowledge.

>

> YES = This sounds reasonable = " Hypoesthesia of both lower extremities with

sensory loss in the big toes and impairment of proprioception. "

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings, colleagues,

Following up on AG, since I am now in Zenica (BiH) and remembered to ask my

doctor friend at dinner.

AG stands for a form of the term antigravitacijski/antigravitational (just like

the dictionary said). This is a test where the patient holds her arms out

straight in front of her, and the doctor can see if one arm is weaker than the

other (and other other things as well, probably). My friend knew exactly where

in the neuro exam this occurs (after the cranial nerves and before GMS), and it

fits exactly (see previous posts for context). I still am not sure how this

would be expressed in English (antigravity? or some other term), but now we know

that is is a specific test and does not concern stature per se.

I did a superficial online search, and this book looks like a great resource for

neurological exams:

DeJong's the neurologic examination

by Wesley , N. DeJong, Armin F. Haerer

It talks about antigravity muscles in a few places.

That's enough work for now. Back to vacation...

Pozdrav iz Bosne!

a

a Gordon

Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian into English

Translation, Editing, Proofreading

www.dbaPlanB.com

> >

> > In American (medicolese)jargon the general term for the way the body hangs

together would be " station " , although " posture " could be used fluently in the

same way, with perhaps better universal comprehension. HOWEVER, in this context,

i.e. directly after the evaluation of the cranial nerves and before gross motor

strength, and given the result noted by the examiner " left shoulder hangs

lower " , it is definitely an evaluation of the eleventh cranial nerve, the

Accessory Nerve, which controls the sternocleidomastoid and trapezius muscles,

directly affecting shoulder station and muscular action/strength.

> >

> > > > Approximately: In *AG* the left arm is positioned lower.

> > > assessment that would result in such a finding (left arm hangs lower)?

> >

> > = = = = =

> >

> > Cardiolpulomonary compensation is fluent and usable, although I am not sure

I understand the original reference.

> >

> > >I'd go with " cardiopulmonary compensation " instead of inventing new

> > >English.Solving problems like this are also a frequent issue with

> >

> > = = = = = = =

> >

> > " Big toe " is a bit clumsy in formal medical jargon, although universally

comprehensible. Most American providers are taught to use " first digit " etc.,

but it is an artificial usage for formal medical publications and almost

everyone would default to the common speech usage of " toe " (likewise finger) in

conversational situations or verbal presentations. " Great " or " first " toe are

also frequently heard - sometimes in written documents. Most importantly

however, formal usage (and for clarity) numbers the fingers and toes. Thumb and

great toe are first digits, but commonly default to " big toe " and " thumb " almost

everywhere, with second finger(digit), third finger/toe, fourth finger/toe etc

in common and formal medicolese.

> > Clinically one could encounter hypesthesia of/in either one big toe or both

big toes at the same time and in the same patient. Proprioception is more

commonly bilateral (if I am computing adequately this morning).

> >

> > = = = = =

> > Forgive the pedantry if this is common knowledge.

> >

> > YES = This sounds reasonable = " Hypoesthesia of both lower extremities with

sensory loss in the big toes and impairment of proprioception. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

what you describe sounds like " kinesiology or muscle testing " .

Have a look at this:

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/herbalists/muscle_testing.htm

It may sound strange when you are not familiar with alternative fields of

medicine. Over the years I had some " energy practitioners " testing me this

way, and I was amaized by the outcome.

HTH, Ursula

(nice to " see " you on the list!)

----- Original Message -----

AG stands for a form of the term antigravitacijski/antigravitational (just

like the dictionary said). This is a test where the patient holds her arms

out straight in front of her, and the doctor can see if one arm is weaker

than the other (and other other things as well, probably). My friend knew

exactly where in the neuro exam this occurs (after the cranial nerves and

before GMS), and it fits exactly (see previous posts for context). I still

am not sure how this would be expressed in English (antigravity? or some

other term), but now we know that is is a specific test and does not

concern stature per se.