Re: My mothers restlessness and Insomnia....any suggestions?

[Guest guest]

Hi Gloria,

nice to meet a fellow canadian (although if you have been following bobbys and

my emails he thinks we are all one and I like this idea too). I live in Ontatio

about 20 kms north of Toronto. I have been in your part of the country and it is

so beautiful and a lot warmer there than here. I am jealous, I love the water,

whales, mountains, tulips that bloom in March but alas I have lived in this area

all of my life and my kids and gradkids are here so Gramma isn't going anywhere.

Well eventually I am but until that time comes I spend as much time with them as

possible.

Do you yourself or is it a loved one who has cirrosis? Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 11:02:27 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Joan

So where are you in Canada?? I'm away out here on Vancouver Island. For

everybody, that's the large island that sits out from the coast of Washington

State and British Columbia. In fact, if the border had actually gone straight

back when, 1/3 of the island would be American.

Gloria

________________________________

I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for medical reasons

in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it must of been

made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here in Canada you

can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of course a

better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and although I

do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such as cancers

that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps them rest and

increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a weirdo don't I,

but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which helps no one

with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll probably

get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand. This is because

that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical marajuana for

the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in the

neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High stadium, and

on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the locations of

dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it. The catch

is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with machine

guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana is still a

federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical use is to

be expected, whatsoever.

I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that it is still

in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of jail free

cards.

The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it was recently

given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available just down

the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal prison, a felon,

unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone should

decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up with a charge!

Good luck, Helen..

Love, Bobby

P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South America? In

other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a little more

free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of this can't

wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an american Eh bobby.

lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Thank you,

I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like an anti

depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it up later and

pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical Marijuana Doctor

to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have heard great

things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have to bring her

to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these cookies before or

heard of them?

Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

Helen

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I was lucky

to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family dodctor

tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I only got

maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour here, an hour

there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got irritated with me

and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I would get up,

and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the early

morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms does not last

anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a night and

still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but my family

doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never used to watch

TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted, but it was a

long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow it eased the

pain.

Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

Lyncia

Subject: My mothers restlessness and Insomnia....any

suggestions?

To: livercirrhosissupport

Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

Hello,

I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to liver

failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the various

complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel sorry for

those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes out to you,

as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your families.

I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep. She sleeps for

maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25 I understand

the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of her

insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she is awake.

Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and so am I.

She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds ( I timed

how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the apartment

as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will go from

underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank goodness. But

this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any suggestions

would be appreciated.

Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to keep the bowels

moving.

She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know this is the

chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to get her some

relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be greatly

appreciated.

She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic Encephalogy and

pain.

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I want to move to Canada. Is it hard to become a citizen

there?

Much love,

Roni

> Joan

>

> So where are you in Canada?? I'm away out here on Vancouver Island.

> For

> everybody, that's the large island that sits out from the coast of

> Washington

> State and British Columbia. In fact, if the border had actually gone

> straight

> back when, 1/3 of the island would be American.

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

>

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bobby,

It is because of you that I went to see a pain specialist and he is

tapering me way off the Norco. I've found the morphine isn't nearly

as addictive as Norco because it lasts longer and for some reason you

don't feel like taking one every couple of hours. My management plan

is working great especially since he upped my morphine by 15 mg a

day. Just wanted to say thanks! I never would have thought of a pain

specialist and would have just relied on PCP.

Much love,

Roni

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which

> shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night.

> One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed

> for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will

> just kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of

> coffee. A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on

> the earth that

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and

> such, but I am

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity.

> Crayons are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for

> it myself. We

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of

> the evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un

> aware of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave

> brings up a good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking.

> I know that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may

> be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the

> worst of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher

> than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments

> to outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from

> there with the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds

> and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away -

> then guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe

> that coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are

> natural medicines

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the

> purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but

> unlike the other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are

> all non toxic.

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about

> the subject

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much

> different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite

> sure that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any

> worse, so we

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem.

> Oh, my how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too

> much. I am sure

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bobby

 

I am even going to a pain specialist because of you.  Thank you...Lyncia

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is true. If you are serving time or on probation or parole you cannot

get social security. If you have served all of your time and no longer on

probation or parole, you can get social security. The same is true for voting,

at least in the state of Wisconsin where I live. A felon gets his rights back

after time is served and is no longer on paper (probation or parole). A felon

can get a passport and serve on a jury too. The only thing an ex felon can't do

is own a gun.

Penny

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

dave i have and they would put me in for transfusion one time they had to give

me 10 pints.good luck

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 12:59:52 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Dave, good to hear from you, old friend. My loved one Ardis used to go

aroung a quart low, or so they always told us in the ER when ever she had to go

in. They surmised that she had a " leaker " in her esophagus or lower GI. Any how,

she would spend a night in the hospital so that they could add a quart back, and

get her electrolytes balanced or fix her creatinine level or gFR. I hope they

can patch you up soon. Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 8:54:20 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Haven't been on for 5 or 6 months...long story...ever increasing

fatigue...recently had blood work by my primary physician..his nurse called and

said all my blood counts are extremely low..she scheduled appt. mid Dec. with

hematologist...had them fax results to my hepatologist yesterday...haven't had

any noticeable blood loss like with variceal bleed..I know cirrohsis can cause

some low blood counts, but was wondering if you guys had all your blood

counts extremely low, (as the nurse put it to me).

Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:18:40 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I figured it is related to my liver...I'll know more when my liver doc gets the

fax and gets back to me..don't want to se another specialist doc. if not

necessary...these general practioners love to farm you out...not so long ago you

had one doc that did it all...that is kind of the way I feel, like when you have

a bleed, but not as extreme, and no  noticeable blood loss...may be a slow

leaker...had an endoscope in Aug. and had a couple to small to band then.  Hope

you have  a wonderful Thanksgiving Bob and all.  

 Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 2:59:52 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Dave, good to hear from you, old friend. My loved one Ardis used to go

aroung a quart low, or so they always told us in the ER when ever she had to go

in. They surmised that she had a " leaker " in her esophagus or lower GI. Any how,

she would spend a night in the hospital so that they could add a quart back, and

get her electrolytes balanced or fix her creatinine level or gFR. I hope they

can patch you up soon. Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 8:54:20 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Haven't been on for 5 or 6 months...long story...ever increasing

fatigue...recently had blood work by my primary physician..his nurse called and

said all my blood counts are extremely low..she scheduled appt. mid Dec. with

hematologist...had them fax results to my hepatologist yesterday...haven't had

any noticeable blood loss like with variceal bleed..I know cirrohsis can cause

some low blood counts, but was wondering if you guys had all your blood

counts extremely low, (as the nurse put it to me).

Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:18:40 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I remember you Gloria...I always remember the Canadians!...I love Canada and

the 'snow birds' I met when they came south in the winter...and my trip

to Calgary and down into Banff  National Park in 1970. 

 Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 10:57:12 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Dave

I'm glad to see that you are still here, or at least that, like me you are

back! Don't know if you remember me, I'm the one that lives on that island off

the coast from you in Seattle.

Gloria

________________________________

Haven't been on for 5 or 6 months...long story...ever increasing

fatigue...recently had blood work by my primary physician..his nurse called and

said all my blood counts are extremely low..she scheduled appt. mid Dec. with

hematologist...had them fax results to my hepatologist yesterday...haven't had

any noticeable blood loss like with variceal bleed..I know cirrohsis can cause

some low blood counts, but was wondering if you guys had all your blood

counts extremely low, (as the nurse put it to me).

Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:18:40 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am happy for you, Roni. I agree, morphine has the least " narcotic reward " of

all the meds I have tried. I was on fentynyl at first, which is potent, and you

have to be very very careful when handling the patches, as you can kill

yourself, and then I was oxycodone. That led to a full withdrawel every single

morning, had a lot of NR, but not so much pain relief. Opana which is made from

the the same alkaloid as oxycodone,(thebain)

had too much NR as well, but did relieve the pain. I am very surprised at how

little side effects there are after taking this stuff for two years. I am having

so much pain now, I would DIE with out it. They are going to have t find out

what the F this thing is in my rib and CUT IT OUT. Give me a rib transplant.

Even with good pain meds I cant live like this.

I am glad you have a good pain doc. You are very lucky. Like I always say, keep

your head away from the dragon's mouth. LOL. Love, Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 9:24:24 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby,

It is because of you that I went to see a pain specialist and he is

tapering me way off the Norco. I've found the morphine isn't nearly

as addictive as Norco because it lasts longer and for some reason you

don't feel like taking one every couple of hours. My management plan

is working great especially since he upped my morphine by 15 mg a

day. Just wanted to say thanks! I never would have thought of a pain

specialist and would have just relied on PCP.

Much love,

Roni

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which

> shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night.

> One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed

> for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will

> just kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of

> coffee. A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on

> the earth that

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and

> such, but I am

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity.

> Crayons are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for

> it myself. We

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of

> the evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un

> aware of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave

> brings up a good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking.

> I know that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may

> be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the

> worst of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher

> than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments

> to outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from

> there with the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds

> and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away -

> then guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe

> that coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are

> natural medicines

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the

> purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but

> unlike the other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are

> all non toxic.

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about

> the subject

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much

> different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite

> sure that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any

> worse, so we

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem.

> Oh, my how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too

> much. I am sure

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Great! I hope they can lessen your suffering. You have been through so much.

Love, Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 10:55:19 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

I am even going to a pain specialist because of you. Thank you...Lyncia

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I remember in the summer of 82. The story is here.

http://magneticmaterialcontrol.blogspot.com/

We got liberty in Port Angeles and took the ferry over. Later on, we actually

took to port in Esquimalt, which has a naval yard and is like a suburb right

next to .

Bobby aka gally watch captain

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:10:00 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I remember you Gloria...I always remember the Canadians!...I love Canada and

the 'snow birds' I met when they came south in the winter...and my trip

to Calgary and down into Banff National Park in 1970.

Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 10:57:12 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Dave

I'm glad to see that you are still here, or at least that, like me you are

back! Don't know if you remember me, I'm the one that lives on that island off

the coast from you in Seattle.

Gloria

________________________________

Haven't been on for 5 or 6 months...long story...ever increasing

fatigue...recently had blood work by my primary physician..his nurse called and

said all my blood counts are extremely low..she scheduled appt. mid Dec. with

hematologist...had them fax results to my hepatologist yesterday...haven't had

any noticeable blood loss like with variceal bleed..I know cirrohsis can cause

some low blood counts, but was wondering if you guys had all your blood

counts extremely low, (as the nurse put it to me).

Dave

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:18:40 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joan

You wouldn't think you had even left Ontario with the weather we've been hit

with today. It's bad enough that there is ever a little snowfall; but, on the

back of that little dusting - came the wind!! Holy, is it ever cold!! We are

just not used to this kind of weather. I doubt I'll be going anywhere tomorrow

because it'll just be horribly icy.

Gloria

________________________________

Hi Gloria,

nice to meet a fellow canadian (although if you have been following bobbys and

my emails he thinks we are all one and I like this idea too). I live in Ontatio

about 20 kms north of Toronto. I have been in your part of the country and it is

so beautiful and a lot warmer there than here. I am jealous, I love the water,

whales, mountains, tulips that bloom in March but alas I have lived in this area

all of my life and my kids and gradkids are here so Gramma isn't going anywhere.

Well eventually I am but until that time comes I spend as much time with them as

possible.

Do you yourself or is it a loved one who has cirrosis? Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 11:02:27 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Joan

So where are you in Canada?? I'm away out here on Vancouver Island. For

everybody, that's the large island that sits out from the coast of Washington

State and British Columbia. In fact, if the border had actually gone straight

back when, 1/3 of the island would be American.

Gloria

________________________________

I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for medical reasons

in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it must of been

made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here in Canada you

can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of course a

better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and although I

do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such as cancers

that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps them rest and

increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a weirdo don't I,

but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which helps no one

with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll probably

get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand. This is because

that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical marajuana for

the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in the

neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High stadium, and

on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the locations of

dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it. The catch

is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with machine

guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana is still a

federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical use is to

be expected, whatsoever.

I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that it is still

in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of jail free

cards.

The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it was recently

given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available just down

the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal prison, a felon,

unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone should

decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up with a charge!

Good luck, Helen..

Love, Bobby

P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South America? In

other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a little more

free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of this can't

wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an american Eh bobby.

lol

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Thank you,

I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like an anti

depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it up later and

pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical Marijuana Doctor

to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have heard great

things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have to bring her

to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these cookies before or

heard of them?

Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

Helen

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I was lucky

to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family dodctor

tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I only got

maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour here, an hour

there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got irritated with me

and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I would get up,

and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the early

morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms does not last

anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a night and

still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but my family

doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never used to watch

TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted, but it was a

long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow it eased the

pain.

Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

Lyncia

Subject: My mothers restlessness and Insomnia....any

suggestions?

To: livercirrhosissupport

Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

Hello,

I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to liver

failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the various

complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel sorry for

those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes out to you,

as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your families.

I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep. She sleeps for

maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25 I understand

the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of her

insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she is awake.

Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and so am I.

She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds ( I timed

how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the apartment

as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will go from

underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank goodness. But

this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any suggestions

would be appreciated.

Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to keep the bowels

moving.

She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know this is the

chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to get her some

relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be greatly

appreciated.

She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic Encephalogy and

pain.

[Guest guest]

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joan and Gloria - First the back pain I have freqeunt back pain,, but

also had it before the cirrhosis, spine and joint problems from arthritis

and and injury 40 years ago. So,, I don't know if what I get now is related

or not. I think sometimes just being so fatigued that when you do something

which stretches your limit, or just sitting in a chair not right for the

back can cause pain in the back,,, and if you are doing these things because

of the cirrhosis problems, then I would say it is related. But if your

cirrhosis dr. won't do anything about it there are some good pain management

drs. out there.

As to the difference between live liver donors and cadaver livers,

frequently, the cadaver livers aren't as close a match as a live donor

liver. So,that can cause more problems with rejection and more antirejection

meds. However, they are also finding out that live donors are haviing

problems in the future, years after donating. I haven't mentioned this her

before because I didn't want to cause anyone not to get a transplant because

they need to have a live donor. I was told the same thing too when I was

first diagnosed. I decided it wasn't something I could consider for myself,

it is a personal decision between the two people involved. Liver disease

runs in my family and I would hate to have someone agree to give me half

their liver and then have problems later because of it. For me, the

question is probaby moot because of my age and all my other problems. As

far as anyone else making the decision, I am sure if the problem gets too

big, too frequent they would probably stop live donors. So, please don't

let me scare you away from it. I have just given the information because

the question was asked. Jan

> Hi Gloria:

>

> i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not

> know

> until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I

> am

> going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have

> been

> having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

> My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing

> to do

> with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel

> about

> that?

>

> I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

> Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer

> a

> deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not

> a

> deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

> sure.

> A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use

> live or

> donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

> Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is

> sunny

> and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I

> have

> been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy

> it

> while we can.

>

> Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Bobby

>

> Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

>

> However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a

> lot

> of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I

> could

> accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a

> living

> donor. Don't know tho.

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just

> kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee.

> A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth

> that

>

>

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but

> I am

>

>

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons

> are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it

> myself. We

>

>

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the

> evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware

> of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a

> good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know

> that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst

> of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to

> outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with

> the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then

> guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that

> coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural

> medicines

>

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the

> other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non

> toxic.

>

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the

> subject

>

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure

> that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse,

> so we

>

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my

> how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am

> sure

>

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use  a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was

told 

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bev

Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for refusing

a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone I

love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I have

refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they think I

am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is caring

about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and they

don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I have

told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I end

up in a coma or something bad  it does not in anyway change my decision and

they

are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use  a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was

told 

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they could

not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved it.but

my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving and

get rest.

hugs

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Hi Bev

Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for refusing

a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone I

love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I have

refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they think I

am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is caring

about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and they

don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I have

told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I end

up in a coma or something bad  it does not in anyway change my decision and

they

are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use  a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was

told 

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joan

Firstly, my cirrhosis was by no means advanced. In 2004, I was diagnosed in

stage 3 with bridging fibrosis. However, I did the HepC treatment and even

though I did not reach a Sustained Viral Response, they were sure that the

treatment would have back some of my fibrosis up. Then, in January of 2009, I

had another biopsy and that showed cirrhosis. However, for me it seemed obvious

that it was not advanced because I was accepted for a clinical trial of the new

HepC meds that are about to come on line.

Then, when the surgeon, who is also a transplant surgeon, did a resection on my

liver, it would seem to me that he saw and knew that I still had enough healthy

liver, to be able to cut the tumours right out.

Unfortunately, no, I've never had any kind of back pain to do with my liver. It

hasn't happened to me in a very long time now; but, I used to suffer badly from

kidney problems and that's when I would have a terrible back ache. However,

with all of the Ultra Sounds and CT Scans I've had, they certainly know enough

about my insides and I'm told that I have cysts on my left kidney.

Also, from the research I've seen, it's not that most people get cancer after

one has advanced cirrhosis. In fact, the percentage is rather low!! I truly

believe that we all have a gene of some kind that can be triggered to mutate

healthy cells into cancer cells. I had cervical cancer when I was 24 and a cone

biopsy took care of that. I have had a bit of skin cancer because I'm very fair

skinned and a natural strawberry blond. However, cancer has not been a real

killer in my family background. Mostly it's heart problems.

Gloria

________________________________

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jan and Joan

My only objection to a liver transplant is very personal to me! I just don't

know if I could do it, for the simple fact that I would feel that I might have

received a liver while a young person is still waiting. No, I certainly don't

feel that I am ready for my life to end and it's a good thing that I am no where

near that stage; but, if I was, then I'd have to see what I would decide in the

end.

I thought that I could possibly live with a " live " donor's liver; but, I'd

definitely want to research a whole lot more. It's my mother that started me

thinking along this line and yet there is absolutely no way that I would accept

a live donation from her.

I believe that as long as I've made peace with my life, then it is entirely up

to my Higher Power what would happen regarding a transplant.

Gloria

________________________________

Hi Joan and Gloria - First the back pain I have freqeunt back pain,, but

also had it before the cirrhosis, spine and joint problems from arthritis

and and injury 40 years ago. So,, I don't know if what I get now is related

or not. I think sometimes just being so fatigued that when you do something

which stretches your limit, or just sitting in a chair not right for the

back can cause pain in the back,,, and if you are doing these things because

of the cirrhosis problems, then I would say it is related. But if your

cirrhosis dr. won't do anything about it there are some good pain management

drs. out there.

As to the difference between live liver donors and cadaver livers,

frequently, the cadaver livers aren't as close a match as a live donor

liver. So,that can cause more problems with rejection and more antirejection

meds. However, they are also finding out that live donors are haviing

problems in the future, years after donating. I haven't mentioned this her

before because I didn't want to cause anyone not to get a transplant because

they need to have a live donor. I was told the same thing too when I was

first diagnosed. I decided it wasn't something I could consider for myself,

it is a personal decision between the two people involved. Liver disease

runs in my family and I would hate to have someone agree to give me half

their liver and then have problems later because of it. For me, the

question is probaby moot because of my age and all my other problems. As

far as anyone else making the decision, I am sure if the problem gets too

big, too frequent they would probably stop live donors. So, please don't

let me scare you away from it. I have just given the information because

the question was asked. Jan

> Hi Gloria:

>

> i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not

> know

> until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I

> am

> going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have

> been

> having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

> My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing

> to do

> with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel

> about

> that?

>

> I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

> Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer

> a

> deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not

> a

> deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

> sure.

> A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use

> live or

> donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

> Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is

> sunny

> and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I

> have

> been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy

> it

> while we can.

>

> Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Bobby

>

> Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

>

> However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a

> lot

> of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I

> could

> accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a

> living

> donor. Don't know tho.

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just

> kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee.

> A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth

> that

>

>

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but

> I am

>

>

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons

> are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it

> myself. We

>

>

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the

> evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware

> of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a

> good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know

> that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst

> of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to

> outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with

> the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then

> guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that

> coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural

> medicines

>

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the

> other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non

> toxic.

>

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the

> subject

>

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure

> that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse,

> so we

>

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my

> how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am

> sure

>

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtainesmarajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isntther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bev - what did your Dr. say that set it straight??

________________________________

yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they could

not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved it.but

my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving and

get rest.

hugs

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Bev

Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for refusing

a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone I

love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I have

refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they think I

am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is caring

about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and they

don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I have

told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I end

up in a coma or something bad it does not in anyway change my decision and they

are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was told

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

about the guilt over not wanting or deserving a liver.they said i did not ask

for this disease just like other people didn't either it just happened and i

didn't ask to be an alcoholic its also a illness. but still have the guilt and

shame i have to cope with it.hope that helps.

bev

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:29:07 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

 

Bev - what did your Dr. say that set it straight??

________________________________

yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they could

not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved it.but

my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving and

get rest.

hugs

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Bev

Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for refusing

a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone I

love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I have

refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they think I

am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is caring

about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and they

don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I have

told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I end

up in a coma or something bad it does not in anyway change my decision and they

are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was told

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

For the people who don't understand when you reject their generous offer,

ask them how they would feel if you were the donor and they were the donee

and something happened to you and you died. I am sure they would feel very

guilty if the situation were reversed. If it were parent to child, then I

would have no trouble with it, would gladly give a part of my liver or a

kidney to one of my children or grandchildren. But I couldn't take my

daughter up on her offer, single mother of two, now has a stepdaughter and

expecting a baby in April. I just found out today that my oldest daughter

is going to have to have her kidneys, or at least a good part of them, do

they do partial removals for kidneys, removed due to the fact that they are

filled with cysts and might start dialysis before I do. And then she will

eventually havve to have a transplant, and I don't have a working one to

give her, I had known that she had cysts in her kidneys, but not to the

point they would have to remove themI am sure she said they weren't

cancerous. But she also has cysts on her ovaries too. Jan.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Beverly Hurlock

wrote:

> yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they

> could

> not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

> needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

> think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved

> it.but

> my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving

> and

> get rest.

>

> hugs

> bev,tx

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Hi Bev

> Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for

> refusing

> a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone

> I

> love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I

> have

>

> refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they

> think I

>

> am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is

> caring

> about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

> roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and

> they

> don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I

> have

> told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I

> end

> up in a coma or something bad it does not in anyway change my decision and

> they

>

> are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

>

> Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i

> could

> use a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was

> told

> th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack

> to

> the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a

> film

> the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i

> could

> not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

> devistating for me.

>

> bev,tx

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Hi Gloria:

>

> i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not

> know

> until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I

> am

> going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have

> been

> having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

> My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing

> to do

>

>

> with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel

> about

> that?

>

> I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

> Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer

> a

> deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not

> a

> deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

> sure.

> A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use

> live or

> donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

> Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is

> sunny

>

>

> and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I

> have

> been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy

> it

> while we can.

>

> Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Bobby

>

> Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

>

> However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a

> lot

> of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I

> could

> accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a

> living

> donor. Don't know tho.

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just

> kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee.

> A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth

> that

>

>

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but

> I am

>

>

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons

> are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it

> myself. We

>

>

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the

> evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware

> of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a

> good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know

> that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst

> of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to

> outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with

> the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then

> guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that

> coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural

> medicines

>

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the

> other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non

> toxic.

>

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the

> subject

>

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure

> that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse,

> so we

>

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my

> how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am

> sure

>

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bev

I am also a recovering alcoholic and truly accept that it is a chronic disease.

That's why I differ in opinion with the husband, when he suggests that he

doesn't want to hear anymore about HepC. Our lives have always included our

recovery program and helping others; so, I don't see the difference between the

two.

Also, it's not that I think that I don't deserve a new liver, I just think that

there would be people who have their whole lives ahead of them and need me to

move over, if I was ever at that level. However, I believe that I read an

article about liver transplants and cancer and it didn't sound so good.

I know that you didn't ask for the disease of alcoholism. I sure know that it

wasn't on my wish list when I was 17 and graduating from school. I know that I

didn't practice hard for 15 yrs, just so I could say that I can finally go to

AA. However, I will be forever grateful for the AA way of living, especially

since dealing with HepC and liver degeneration.

Finally, what happened in the past, simply can not be changed. Therefore, all

one can do with it, is learn the lessons from it, so that today is a whole lot

better!! Also, you don't have tomorrow yet and by the time that it comes, it's

now today. Then there is a saying " Screw Guilt " !!

Gloria

________________________________

about the guilt over not wanting or deserving a liver.they said i did not ask

for this disease just like other people didn't either it just happened and i

didn't ask to be an alcoholic its also a illness. but still have the guilt and

shame i have to cope with it.hope that helps.

bev

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:29:07 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Â

Bev - what did your Dr. say that set it straight??

________________________________

yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they could

not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved it.but

my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving and

get rest.

hugs

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Bev

Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for refusing

a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone I

love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I have

refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they think I

am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is caring

about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and they

don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I have

told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I end

up in a coma or something bad it does not in anyway change my decision and they

are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i could

use a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was told

th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack to

the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a film

the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i could

not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

devistating for me.

bev,tx

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Hi Gloria:

i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not know

until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I am

going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have been

having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing to do

with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel about

that?

I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer a

deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not a

deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

sure.

A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use live or

donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is sunny

and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I have

been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy it

while we can.

Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a lot

of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I could

accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a living

donor. Don't know tho.

Gloria

________________________________

Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just kill

the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee. A

little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth that

will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but I am

talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies contain 50

different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons are

more poisonous.

Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it myself. We

have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the evils of

these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware of

the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a good

point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know that

this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

Bobby

You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst of

the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to outlaw

it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with the

cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then guess

what??

Gloria

________________________________

I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that coca

leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural medicines

given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the other

three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non toxic.

These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the subject

lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure that

the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse, so we

must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my how

we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am sure

people see where I am coming from.

Bobby

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

Insomnia....any suggestions?

I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

for having a joint in their car.

Roni

> I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> medical reasons

> in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> must of been

> made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> in Canada you

> can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> course a

> better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> although I

> do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> as cancers

> that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> them rest and

> increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> weirdo don't I,

> but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> helps no one

> with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> probably

> get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

>

> And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> This is because

>

> that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> marajuana for

> the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> the

> neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> stadium, and

> on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> locations of

> dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> The catch

> is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> machine

> guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> is still a

> federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> use is to

> be expected, whatsoever.

> I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> it is still

> in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> jail free

> cards.

>

> The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> was recently

> given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> just down

> the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> prison, a felon,

>

> unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> should

> decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> with a charge!

> Good luck, Helen..

>

> Love, Bobby

>

> P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> America? In

> other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> little more

> free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> this can't

> wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> american Eh bobby.

> lol

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Thank you,

>

> I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> an anti

> depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> up later and

>

> pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> Marijuana Doctor

>

> to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> heard great

>

> things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> to bring her

>

> to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> cookies before or

>

> heard of them?

> Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> Helen

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> was lucky

> to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> dodctor

> tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> only got

> maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> here, an hour

> there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> irritated with me

> and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> would get up,

> and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> early

> morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> does not last

>

> anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> night and

> still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> my family

> doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

>

> I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> used to watch

>

> TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> but it was a

>

> long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> it eased the

>

> pain.

>

> Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

>

> Lyncia

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any

> suggestions?

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

>

> Hello,

> I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> liver

> failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> various

> complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> sorry for

> those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> out to you,

> as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> families.

>

> I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> She sleeps for

>

> maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> I understand

>

> the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> her

> insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> is awake.

> Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> so am I.

> She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> ( I timed

> how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> apartment

> as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> go from

> underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> goodness. But

> this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> suggestions

> would be appreciated.

>

> Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> keep the bowels

>

> moving.

>

> She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> this is the

> chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> get her some

> relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> greatly

> appreciated.

>

> She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> Encephalogy and

> pain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jan

Your story here is a great way to get one thinking!!

Of course my mother wants to be a living donor; because, I am her daughter.

However, the very fact that she has " tired " heart tells me that she would

definitely either have a great deal of health problems or the Drs. just wouldn't

do it.

Gloria

________________________________

For the people who don't understand when you reject their generous offer,

ask them how they would feel if you were the donor and they were the donee

and something happened to you and you died. I am sure they would feel very

guilty if the situation were reversed. If it were parent to child, then I

would have no trouble with it, would gladly give a part of my liver or a

kidney to one of my children or grandchildren. But I couldn't take my

daughter up on her offer, single mother of two, now has a stepdaughter and

expecting a baby in April. I just found out today that my oldest daughter

is going to have to have her kidneys, or at least a good part of them, do

they do partial removals for kidneys, removed due to the fact that they are

filled with cysts and might start dialysis before I do. And then she will

eventually havve to have a transplant, and I don't have a working one to

give her, I had known that she had cysts in her kidneys, but not to the

point they would have to remove themI am sure she said they weren't

cancerous. But she also has cysts on her ovaries too. Jan.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Beverly Hurlock

wrote:

> yes joan i have all my paperwork in order also.but it not them and they

> could

> not possibly know how it feels. i even felt guilty when i was first told i

> needed the tp because it was due to my over dranking for years and i didn't

> think i had the right to take a liver from someone that really deserved

> it.but

> my dr's set me straight real quick.well good luck have a happy thanksgiving

> and

> get rest.

>

> hugs

> bev,tx

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:52:13 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Hi Bev

> Thanks for your input, and all of your reasons are my same reasons for

> refusing

> a living donor. I could never live with it if something happened to someone

> I

> love because they were trying to save me. The people who have offered and I

> have

>

> refused them all do not understand even though I try to explain it, they

> think I

>

> am being a stupid martyr or something. But that is not it at all, it is

> caring

> about people and not wanting anyone in jeopardy so we are really at a cross

> roads because I don't understand why they don't understand my reasons and

> they

> don't understand my reasons. But it comes down to being my decision and I

> have

> told my family doctor and my specialist and my power of attorney that if I

> end

> up in a coma or something bad it does not in anyway change my decision and

> they

>

> are not to do a live liver transplant under any circumstances.

>

> Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 4:38:23 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> joan i don't know if it makes a difference but i asked my surgeon if i

> could

> use a living donor my brother was willing to give me part of his.but was

> told

> th at in tx they don't do living donors for livers i would have to go baack

> to

> the east coast.and then afre talking it over when the dr and wa tching a

> film

> the risdk are really hi for the donor more so thenh the recipient .and i

> could

> not de al with anything happening to a nyone trying to save me it would be

> devistating for me.

>

> bev,tx

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 10:42:48 AM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Hi Gloria:

>

> i am curious about your response here to having liver cancer, I did not

> know

> until recently that most people with advanced cirrosis get liver cancer. I

> am

> going for an ultra sound on the 8th because of all of the back pain I have

> been

> having. Does anyone elses back ache all the time?

> My family doctor and specialist keep telling me that it would have nothing

> to do

>

>

> with my illness, that it does not cause back aches, what do you guys feel

> about

> that?

>

> I was asked by my specialist if I had any candidates for a live liver donor

> Gloria and I said no even though a few people have offered, I would prefer

> a

> deceased donor. Why do you feel so differently about it than I do. Why not

> a

> deceased donor is there something you know that I don't, probably lots I am

> sure.

> A lot of people on this site talk about there transplants, did most use

> live or

> donor livers? And does it make any difference to the outcome?

> Hope all is well with you Gloria, and sorry about your sucky weather it is

> sunny

>

>

> and 14 here today, just the most beautiful day, despite the back ache I

> have

> been outside most of the morning with my 2 year old granddaugher to enjoy

> it

> while we can.

>

> Thanks everyone for everything, Joan

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 10:55:04 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

>

> Bobby

>

> Yes, what you say here makes a whole lot of sense to me as well!

>

> However, about the liver transplant thing!! Now with the cancer causing a

> lot

> of concern, who knows what I might have to face. I still don't think I

> could

> accept a liver; but, I might really think through the possibility of a

> living

> donor. Don't know tho.

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> Gloria, there is a facinating show on the history channel which shows the

> history of how drugs became illegal. This didnt happen over night. One at a

> time, they different drugs came under scrutiny. Some were outlawed for good

> reason. LSD really has no medical use. Highly purified cocaine will just

> kill

> the crap out of you so I agree with it being illegal. Meth too.

>

> But flowers and leaves should in my opinion be as legal as alcohol.

> In Peru, people chew coca leaves and get the same kick as a cup of coffee.

> A

> little pick me up, if you will. Poppies are the only substance on the earth

> that

>

>

> will actually sooth pain. I am not talking about little aches and such, but

> I am

>

>

> talking about real, dibilitating,take your breath away pain. Poppies

> contain 50

> different alkaloids known to alleviate pain, with zero toxicity. Crayons

> are

> more poisonous.

>

> Pot is said to have much medicinal value, though I never cared for it

> myself. We

>

>

> have over the years succumbed to voices which have convinced us of the

> evils of

> these things, with much of the hysteria being unfounded.

>

> Oh, well. I just wanted to make sure that no one in the group was un aware

> of

> the seriousness of the catch 22 of medical marajuana, and Dave brings up a

> good

> point-they will not give you a transplant if you've been partaking. I know

> that

> this isnt a problem for you, but there are others for whom it may be. Love,

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 9:16:06 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> Bobby

>

> You know that I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

>

> I have to wonder what percentage of society actually suffer from the worst

> of

> the legal drugs, alcohol. I can bet that it is a whole lot higher than we'd

> like to admit. However, does that give the right to the governments to

> outlaw

> it because of that percentage that misuse it?? Then go out from there with

> the

> cocoa or poppies. If (or when) my time comes to need heavy pain meds and I

> learned that either the cocoa or the poppy could help take it away - then

> guess

> what??

>

> Gloria

>

> ________________________________

>

> I am starting to see things much different than I used to. I believe that

> coca

> leaves in their natural form, poppies as well as marijuana are natural

> medicines

>

>

> given to us by our creator. We have the right to use them for the purpose

> intended, but unfortunately we have forfeited those rights.

>

> Alcohol when taken in moderation is safe and even healthy, but unlike the

> other

> three mentioned,it is toxic,where coca, poppies and marijuana are all non

> toxic.

>

>

> These are just my personal opinions. I have been reading a lot about the

> subject

>

>

> lately. Even one hundred years ago, things were so so much different. The

> majority of addicts were middle aged house wives. People were quite sure

> that

> the problem of drug addiction was just horrible and couldnt get any worse,

> so we

>

>

> must enact the strictest controls and laws to eradicate the problem. Oh, my

> how

> we have screwed this one up! I'd better shut up before I say too much. I am

> sure

>

>

> people see where I am coming from.

> Bobby

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 3:30:42 PM

> Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> Insomnia....any suggestions?

>

> I totally agree with Bobby Joan! Alcohol will make you violent,

> aggressive. Marijuana makes you mellow. Alcohol ruins families,

> relationships and your health. As far as I know.......this isn't the

> case with marijuana. I guess it could ruin a marriage if one decides

> they hate it and doesn't want anything to do with it. BTW, I don't

> use it myself but did some in college. I don't understand why the

> gubment does what it does concerning this. Makes no sense to me to

> send a grannie to jail for growing a little in her garden to ease her

> pain. Not to mention tying up our court systems busting the teenagers

> for having a joint in their car.

>

> Roni

>

>

>

> > I did not know that it was still illegal to use marijuana for

> > medical reasons

> > in the States. I thought with the talk of cookies and such that it

> > must of been

> > made legal for medical reasons. I am so sorry that it is not, here

> > in Canada you

> > can get 5 grams a month with a prescription from a doctor. With of

> > course a

> > better part of your life spent filling out forms and such first and

> > although I

> > do not use it (yet) I know of many people for other conditions such

> > as cancers

> > that use it and it helps so much. Eases pain, relaxes them, helps

> > them rest and

> > increases appetite so what is so bad about that? I sound like a

> > weirdo don't I,

> > but I agree with Bobby you can get all the booze you want which

> > helps no one

> > with anything and yet you cannot get something that would help. I'll

> > probably

> > get arreted the next time I try to cross the border! lol

> >

> > And bobby at this point anything is possible lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 7:01:38 AM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> >

> > In my home town of Denver, the lines at the DMV are out of hand.

> > This is because

> >

> > that is where you go to obtain a special licence to grow medical

> > marajuana for

> > the dispensaries. There are signs all up and down the main street in

> > the

> > neighborhood where I grew up, 10 miles directly south of Mile High

> > stadium, and

> > on the street which it is located, hundreds of signs mark the

> > locations of

> > dispensaries for marajuana, brownies, cookies, tablets, you name it.

> > The catch

> > is that already several of them have been raided federal agents with

> > machine

> > guns, and shooting flash bang grenades... at grandmothers! Marijuana

> > is still a

> > federal crime here. In the entire copuntry, and NO mercy for medical

> > use is to

> > be expected, whatsoever.

> > I would caution anyone who obtaines marajuana for medical use that

> > it is still

> > in fact against the law, and there is no such thing as get out of

> > jail free

> > cards.

> >

> > The world is truely upside down with alcohol, a drug so lethal, it

> > was recently

> > given a status as more dangerous than methamphetamine, is available

> > just down

> > the street, and possesion of marajuana will land you in federal

> > prison, a felon,

> >

> > unable to ever collect social security, or vote. Caution. Everyone

> > should

> > decide for themselves. I do not want to see any one get caught up

> > with a charge!

> > Good luck, Helen..

> >

> > Love, Bobby

> >

> > P.s,Joan- isnt ther a North America, Central America, and South

> > America? In

> > other words, are you sure that you arent one? lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 3:02:58 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > curious as all get out, marijuana cookies??? I thought we were a

> > little more

> > free thinking up here in the north country but I have never heard of

> > this can't

> > wait to hear what everyone has to say. May have to become an

> > american Eh bobby.

> > lol

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 2:08:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> > I called the doc today and she has prescribed elavil which is like

> > an anti

> > depressant aswell as something that treats insomnia....will pick it

> > up later and

> >

> > pray it works for her tonight. I also want to contact a Medical

> > Marijuana Doctor

> >

> > to see if its possible to try some medical marijuana cookies. I have

> > heard great

> >

> > things about them for insomnias. My Mum lives in New York so I have

> > to bring her

> >

> > to New Jersey to a new doctor for that. Has anyone tried these

> > cookies before or

> >

> > heard of them?

> > Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

> > Helen

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 1:12:18 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > I am sorry to tell you but my last episode of severe insomnia were I

> > was lucky

> > to get two hours a night lasted for months. My specialist and family

> > dodctor

> > tried different medications but even with some really strong ones I

> > only got

> > maybe 4 hours. And it was not 4 hours in a row it was half hour

> > here, an hour

> > there constantlty up and down like your Mom. Even my dogs got

> > irritated with me

> > and would do that low growl in the back of there throats when I

> > would get up,

> > and I discovered that they are really wimps and will not walk in the

> > early

> > morning hours like 2 or 3. lol I hope for your sake that your moms

> > does not last

> >

> > anywere near this long, even now i don't sleep well, maybe 6 hours a

> > night and

> > still up and down a couple of times. I miss a good nights sleep, but

> > my family

> > doctor says sleep is over rated but I do not agree with her.

> >

> > I doubt a good nights sleep will ever happen again for me, I never

> > used to watch

> >

> > TV now I know all of the shows. Joan

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:44:22 PM

> > Subject: Re: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any suggestions?

> >

> > It lasted a long time for me. I don't remember how long it lasted,

> > but it was a

> >

> > long time. I slept outside in the two person swing because somehow

> > it eased the

> >

> > pain.

> >

> > Please go and tell her doctor that her meds are not working.

> >

> > Lyncia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Subject: My mothers restlessness and

> > Insomnia....any

> > suggestions?

> > To: livercirrhosissupport

> > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:01 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> > I am trying to take care of my mother who has complications due to

> > liver

> > failure. I won't go into everything as all of you know already the

> > various

> > complications associated with this horrible disease. I really feel

> > sorry for

> > those of you who do not have enough help or support. My heart goes

> > out to you,

> > as I really believe you need all the help you can get from your

> > families.

> >

> > I am at my wits end at the moment because my mother cannot sleep.

> > She sleeps for

> >

> > maybe 2 hours with the help of Ambian 2x10mg, Melatonin, Valium .25

> > I understand

> >

> > the chemical reaction going on in the blood and this is the cause of

> > her

> > insomnia. But worse is that she cannot just sit and relax while she

> > is awake.

> > Her body/brain will not let her rest and she is really exhausted and

> > so am I.

> > She is up and down off the couch, in and out of bed every 30 seconds

> > ( I timed

> > how long she can sit still) I have to walk with her, up and down the

> > apartment

> > as I am afraid she will fall from exhaustion or that her legs will

> > go from

> > underneath her. She is not in pain as we have pain patches thank

> > goodness. But

> > this very serious restlessness is driving me and her crazy. Any

> > suggestions

> > would be appreciated.

> >

> > Just so you know. She takes Antibiotic and a little Lactulose to

> > keep the bowels

> >

> > moving.

> >

> > She walks and talks like she is drunk but she is not, again I know

> > this is the

> > chemicals talking or the sick liver really. Anyhow, would love to

> > get her some

> > relief from her misery so again any help or suggestions would be

> > greatly

> > appreciated.

> >

> > She has been in the hospital 4 times since March with Hepatic

> > Encephalogy and

> > pain.

> >

> >