Re: 911:: Patients rights

[Guest guest]

Yes, we care why he is waving the gun. If we have specific knowledge of a

subject's mental status, we would be remiss if not advising responding

personnel. I am not at all a fan of the perceived " patient's rights " in

advising responding personnel to a patient with AIDS or the like either. OK,

so the patient has a right to privacy. What about my paramedics right to not

become infected. If a patient calls for EMS and advises us of his/her status

with regard to HIV or Hep (and this is the only way I would know such

information) then, for the purpose of better serving the patient and

protecting our personnel, I need to tell them. In my agency we say " use

universal precautions " which they do anyway, but this is our way of " red

flagging " the run. Just the same as if an elderly patient calls with

difficulty breathing, I am able to advise my personnel of the patient gave me

a medical history of COPD or CHF. Why is it any different? Why do we

protect people who have the potential to infect (and KILL) others? Having a

disease is not a shameful thing. One's medical history is important in

treating them.

[Guest guest]

I understand your perspective and certainly agree that you have a point,

however, I have NEVER (in 15 years of dispatching) heard of people sitting

around listening to scanners to see what horrible diseases their neighbors

have. We also have trunked radio systems that scramble dispatch. I lived in

FL when the brothers (hemophiliacs) with HIV were burned out of their home in

Arcadia, so I understand the point.

That said, I will protect the responding personnel, using discretion and good

sense. We hardly announce " Glove up! This one's dangerous " . We are

responsible and reasonable. And yes, my chief is aware that we say, " use

universal precautions " .

Stacey K

[Guest guest]

I feel I have a different perspective on this issue, which has been a post a

couple of times before.

Ladibugtattoo wrote: I am not at all a fan of the perceived " patient's

rights " in >advising responding personnel to a patient with AIDS or the like

either. OK, >so the patient has a right to privacy. What about my

paramedics right to not >become infected. If a patient calls for EMS and

advises us of his/her status >with regard to HIV or Hep (and this is the

only way I would know such >information) then, for the purpose of better

serving the patient and >protecting our personnel, I need to tell them.

I have been a dispatcher for police, fire and EMS for over three years and I

care for all these people. It is my job to send them on a call with the

most information possible for them to be safe and to take care of the

situation to the best of their ability. Police officers, firefighters, and

paramedics are all taught about universal precautions and it is their job to

protect themselves. I am a mother of two young men who have mild

hemophilia. My sons are now grown and in their 20's but I remember the days

of White and I can remember praying that my boys would stay healthy. I

live in a small city and a rural area and if either of my son's had been

infected with H.I.V. I can imagine the prejudice they would have suffered

through. Times have not changed much. All dispatchers are all too aware of

how many people are out there listening in scannerville, these are the

reasons that patient's rights were made. I thank God every day that my

son's have been lucky and not been infected by any these life threatening

diseases. I also think it is important to remember that we have rules,

regulations and laws that we must as dispatchers abide by.

in Ohio

[Guest guest]

, I can sympathize with the fear you have of transfusions. I recently

thought I was going to have to have one after being overdosed on an

anticoagulant and experienced severe bleeding. Luckily, it was brought

under control before the need for a transfusion. I cannot express the fear

I had. I know it may seem unreasonable to be afraid...after all, this blood

is supposed to be checked, right? I was just afraid it would be check ed

with the same knowledge as the dosage on my anticoagulant wonder drug. It

is always good to look at a situation and a problem from both sides.

Lyn

Re: 911:: Patients rights

I am a mother of two young men who have mild

> hemophilia. >

> in Ohio

[Guest guest]

<snip>

however, I have NEVER (in 15 years of dispatching) heard of people sitting

around listening to scanners to see what horrible diseases their neighbors

have. We also have trunked radio systems that scramble dispatch. <snip>

Oh yes there are and they are called scannerists. Have their own mags, web

sites etc. It's a huge hobby. Did you see the stuff about UHF scanners -

will be out in time for Christmas. You can never assume the public won't

hear cause they hear everything.

The bottom line is to balance treating the public as you want to be treated

and providing info to keep our partners safe. Tough balance to achieve.

E. , ENP

911 Communications

TX PD

" The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of the City of

. "

[Guest guest]

I am aware of the descramblers, I am aware of the patient's rights, I am

aware of the Supreme Court and I know there is no Easter Bunny! I give...you

are all right. I will still do what I think is best for ALL concerned.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

In our department, we have certain codes that we say on the air for

communicable diseases. For example, Tuburculosis (an airborne disease) would

fall under one code & Hepatitis & HIV (a bloodborne disease) would fall under

another code. We NEVER say what the actual disease is on the air. Instead,

we use the certain codes & the firefighters & EMT's know to use universal

caution.

" In God we trust....all others check thru NCIC! "

L. Dunham

a911opr8r@...

Portsmouth P.D.

Portsmouth, VA

[Guest guest]

I generally contact the shift commander, but they know better than I do

sometimes.

[Guest guest]

<Snip>We also have trunked radio systems that scramble dispatch. <snip>

For $89, I can get a de-scrambler advertised on the scanner sites.

<Snip> " Oh yes there are and they are called scannerists. Have their own

mags, web

sites etc. It's a huge hobby. Did you see the stuff about UHF scanners -

will be out in time for Christmas. You can never assume the public won't

hear cause they hear everything. " <snip>

I have 3 scanners going all the time with different frequencies in all of

them. I monitor about 60-70 channels. Most are fire/rescue/medical

channels, but I monitor 6 law enforcement agencies, and many mutual aid

channels. I can make any channel a primary in a second if there is action

going on. As to the new scanners, they are going to make one by Bearcat

(Uniden) which will descramble the digital signals this fall or by next

spring. I have a total of about 10-12 scanners somewhere running all the

time. I have 3 in my vehicle, some in other rooms, and also have a fire

pager. Some of us " scanner nuts " have been doing this so long, we can just

about give you all the frequencies for the area by memory.

Larew

NC911@...

Photos by NC911

http://members1.clubphoto.com/john63268

[Guest guest]

Ah Rich!

I won't mess with your Santa dreams. He come to my house too. But that

pesky Easter Bunny...well...he got hit out in front of our Station 15 last

year. Sorry. But, when we made the EMS run on him, we had no medical

history so we used our regular good sense and just gloved and goggled up!

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Ah Rich!

I won't mess with your Santa dreams. He come to my house too. But that

pesky Easter Bunny...well...he got hit out in front of our Station 15 last

year. Sorry. But, when we made the EMS run on him, we had no medical

history so we used our regular good sense and just gloved and goggled up!

Stacey

[Guest guest]

> Ok..I sent our Director and Deputy Director telling them about our use of

> " code 100 " . He asked me to get any source where it actually has the

> legalities of using a code like this. Does anyone have a site or source

> where it says definitely do not do this??

Your director needs to pick up his phone and call your agency's legal

counsel. That is what our director did, and it was determined by that

attorney that broadcasting codes violated the privacy laws in this state.

Each state is different.....and your director is foolish to not pay for a

professional opinion.

[Guest guest]

> Ok..I sent our Director and Deputy Director telling them about our use of

> " code 100 " . He asked me to get any source where it actually has the

> legalities of using a code like this. Does anyone have a site or source

> where it says definitely do not do this?? He said that it was decided years

> ago that the safety of responding units was paramount regardless of possible

> lawsuits. But if he's asking about sources he must be getting second

> thoughts, I would appreciate any help. Thanks!

> Jim

> ********************************************************************

I don't have it here in front of me but in Iowa I think it is a state law

now. If I can come up with the code section & language I'll forward

it on to the list.

Iowa State Patrol Communications Cedar Rapids

AOL IM Ridgeroader

Werling, Anamosa, IA AOL IM Ridgeroader

mailto:scott@...

http://www.jonescountytourism.com

http://www.ia.net/~anachamb/pumpkin.html

http://www.thehungersite.com (feed someone)

http://www.earthsat.com/iowa/winter.html Iowa road conditions

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 12:21:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mbarn565@... writes:

<< Each state is different.....and your director is foolish to not pay for a

professional opinion. >>

Maybe you meant " I THINK your director WOULD BE FOOLISH not to pay for a

professional opinion. " I htink " is foolish " is a little strong.

By the way, some cities even have this type of professional on staff

(actually paid by the city to be on staff as thier full time legal counsel).

But sadly some don't.

[Guest guest]

ladibugtattoo writes:

>>Maybe you meant " I THINK your director WOULD BE FOOLISH not to pay for a

>>professional opinion. " I htink " is foolish " is a little strong.

Actually, I stand by my original statement. The issue of privacy surrounding

politically " hot " diseases is a serious one with big liability (read

$dollars$) considerations for centers that fail to handle such cases in a

legally sound manner.

A responsible manager/director would most certainly avail him/herself of the

best professional legal advice to be found. To not do so *is* foolish. When

salaries, equipment and facilities are negatively impacted because of a large

punitive financial award levied against the 911 center that failed to adhere

to law it might become easier for you to understand.

And yes, it is pretty common for government entities to have legal counsel on

staff. Even those that don't employ a full time attorney(s) have one/some on

retainer or at least know where to find one. This is, after all, the USA and

we certainly don't have a shortage of lawyers here. :-)

Additionally, it is quite common for government entities to be what is called

" self-insured. " So, if you were thinking that the financial impact of losing

a lawsuit is no big deal because the insurance company would have to pay, you

could be wrong. It is a big deal......whether it wipes out your " self

insured " reserves or ends up costing all of us citizens more through

increased insurance premiums.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 4:23:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mbarn565@... writes:

<< Additionally, it is quite common for government entities to be what is

called

" self-insured. " So, if you were thinking that the financial impact of

losing

a lawsuit is no big deal because the insurance company would have to pay,

you

could be wrong. It is a big deal......whether it wipes out your " self

insured " reserves or ends up costing all of us citizens more through

increased insurance premiums. >>

Believe me, I have been working in this industry for a LONG (longer than I

like to mention) length of time and the majority of that time was spent in

good sized city (Orlando). I am well aware of the concept of being

" self-insured " .

On the other issue, I just feel like calling people foolish is a little

harsh. An idea, concept, thought, etc, may seem foolish to me. But that

would be my opinion, not necessarily shared by others. And in my opinion

labeling people foolish seems, well...foolish. Ever gone to marriage

counseling? I learned that there....it has served me well.

On that note, I have tired of this whole thread....rejoice, for I have

surrendered! LOL!

Stacey K

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/00 6:32:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

ladibugtattoo@... writes:

<< If a patient calls for EMS and advises us of his/her status

with regard to HIV or Hep (and this is the only way I would know such

information) then, for the purpose of better serving the patient and

protecting our personnel, I need to tell them >>

Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.

Tammy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/00 6:32:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

ladibugtattoo@... writes:

<< If a patient calls for EMS and advises us of his/her status

with regard to HIV or Hep (and this is the only way I would know such

information) then, for the purpose of better serving the patient and

protecting our personnel, I need to tell them >>

Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.

Tammy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

heimdalcmo@... writes:

<<

Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.

Tammy

>>

What's the question?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

heimdalcmo@... writes:

<<

Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.

Tammy

>>

What's the question?

[Guest guest]

<<Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.>>

Tammy

NOPE, YOU MUST TELL THE CALLER to let the crew know what was said, by

law you CAN NOT pass along to a crew the caller has aids.

Jim from North East Ohio

LifeCare Ambulance

E-mail LifeCare449@...

Work Web site http://www.lifecareambulance.com

Toll free Voice mail 1-

AOL Instant Messenger Eggeman1971

***What I type is my own feelings and Not anyone Else's***

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[Guest guest]

<<Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights.>>

Tammy

NOPE, YOU MUST TELL THE CALLER to let the crew know what was said, by

law you CAN NOT pass along to a crew the caller has aids.

Jim from North East Ohio

LifeCare Ambulance

E-mail LifeCare449@...

Work Web site http://www.lifecareambulance.com

Toll free Voice mail 1-

AOL Instant Messenger Eggeman1971

***What I type is my own feelings and Not anyone Else's***

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

Maybe our legal counsel is " overzealous, " or our state laws are too

stringent......but we have been advised by legal counsel to not provide

information about AIDS or HIV over the radio even if the reporting party

and/or patient has provided it to us. So, we give the symptoms that are

causing the problem and finish our additional with a statement to the effect

that, " additional medical history available at the residence. "

For what it's worth, I think it's a real shame that this disease has turned

into such a political and legal circus.

Marcia

Washington State

[Guest guest]

Maybe our legal counsel is " overzealous, " or our state laws are too

stringent......but we have been advised by legal counsel to not provide

information about AIDS or HIV over the radio even if the reporting party

and/or patient has provided it to us. So, we give the symptoms that are

causing the problem and finish our additional with a statement to the effect

that, " additional medical history available at the residence. "

For what it's worth, I think it's a real shame that this disease has turned

into such a political and legal circus.

Marcia

Washington State

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/00 8:50:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,

heimdalcmo@... writes:

<< Question: If a patient tells you on the phone that they have Aids or

Hepititis then are they not giving you permission to tell the personel that

will be responding. Waiving their patients rights. >>

Tammy,

Essentially you are correct. If someone tells you their HIV status, clearly

they want you to know. However, what they may NOT know is that if you pass on

this information via almost any means there is a good chance someone other

than responding personnel may hear it. It's not the responding personnel who

will (I hope) wish to discriminate against this person or do them harm...it's

the unknown people who may be 'listening'. Most people don't know that

transmissions are often heard by people outside of public safety and

therefore aren't really making an informed decision when they give us

permission to tell responding personnel.

Even if there weren't laws prohibiting these types of communications (which

there are), it would still be in the best interest of our patients to ask

them to repeat the info to the personnel who arrive to assist them.

Hope this answered your question!

Coleen