Re: A wonderful essay written by a patient

[Guest guest]

Amen & Amen!!! This is a GREAT article. Oh, to be half as wise,

articulate, spunky & tenacious at 83! Oh, to LIVE to be 83!

Thanks, dear ...

Tess

[Guest guest]

Glad that you enjoyed that, Tess. I would also like to strike the phrase

" patient denies " from the medical record vernacular!

Re: [ ] A wonderful essay written by a patient

> Amen & Amen!!! This is a GREAT article. Oh, to be half as wise,

> articulate, spunky & tenacious at 83! Oh, to LIVE to be 83!

>

> Thanks, dear ...

>

> Tess

[Guest guest]

Me, too! " Patient denies " in the vernacular of our culture can mean

many things, nearly all with a negative slant...

One thing I have to work on is NOT automatically going on " emotionally

spunky " when speaking to doctors. God forbid I'm ever seen as

self-pitying, whiney. I'm much better at being clear and assertive than

I was a few years ago, but it still is easy to " hear " myself getting in

that mode. But today, I think I was stripped away of that ability from

being weary (and trusting this dr.)...my doctor came in and took one

look at my hands and I told HIM (harder to say this to 'hims' than

'hers') that it hurt so much to try to hold the t-p when wiping my

tushy...gentleman and sweetheart he is, he said " I'm so sorry, it has to

be painful. "

Oy vey...

Tess

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:37:08 AM Central Standard Time,

tess_northwest@... writes:

> Me, too! " Patient denies " in the vernacular of our culture can mean

> many things, nearly all with a negative slant...

>

Speaking from a nursing/hospital charting standpoint, it can also mean you

assessed something. We chart " patient denies pain " , rather than patient has no

pain. Patient denies implies we checked with the patient, rather than just

saying we say she doesn't have pain, or whatever. I know some of this stuff is

baloney and some of it is slanted, but patient denies pain protects me

personally from a lawsuit for malpractice for not treating pain. How could I

treat

it if she denied she had it? This is just an example, but something to

remember when you are reading charting. Often the reason for the wording is

malpractice/lawsuit protection. Cary the RN

[Guest guest]

Oh boy, she really says it all, and quite well too! It's time

we " seniors " start standing up for ourselves and quit being treated

like day-old bread. Thanks for sharing, !

Judi

> From the ls of Internal Medicine

> 7 January 2003

>

> On Being a Patient

> " A Complaint against " Complaints " " by June Bingham:

>

> http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/138/1/73

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, Cary!

I'm well aware of the need for nurses and doctors to cover their asses,

LOL, but, as the author of the essay objects to the word " complaint " and

suggests " concern " instead, I would rather that the phrase " patient

denies " be replaced with words that hold less of a negative connotation

such as " patient reports. "

Take it from this patient who had to " deny " the use of recreational

drugs - on three different occasions with the same rheumatologist!

With the word " deny, " there is an underlying current that the doctor

suspects something, but the patient isn't admitting to it. That wouldn't

be the case in the example you gave, but what would be wrong with saying

" patient reports no pain " ?

Re: [ ] A wonderful essay written by a patient

> In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:37:08 AM Central Standard Time,

> tess_northwest@... writes:

>

>

> > Me, too! " Patient denies " in the vernacular of our culture can mean

> > many things, nearly all with a negative slant...

> >

>

> Speaking from a nursing/hospital charting standpoint, it can also mean

you

> assessed something. We chart " patient denies pain " , rather than

patient has no

> pain. Patient denies implies we checked with the patient, rather than

just

> saying we say she doesn't have pain, or whatever. I know some of this

stuff is

> baloney and some of it is slanted, but patient denies pain protects me

> personally from a lawsuit for malpractice for not treating pain. How

could I treat

> it if she denied she had it? This is just an example, but something

to

> remember when you are reading charting. Often the reason for the

wording is

> malpractice/lawsuit protection. Cary the RN

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2003 9:56:08 AM Central Standard Time,

Matsumura_Clan@... writes:

> " patient reports no pain " ?

>

>

>

>

That would work as well....one of the problems on a busy unit is trying to

say what you want to say in as few words as possible! Thank the wonderful world

of managed care for that! I personally have always hated the old " patient

complains of " , too. I try to use " patient states " . Like you said, semantics,

but one sounds like someone is just bitching!

Cary

[Guest guest]

Exactly.

It may not look right to the observer, but to medical people, it covers what has

to be done.

When my son was a toddler, he cut his lip and needed stitches. I noticed the

nurse wrote down, " Mother states that child fell down. " I felt like they thought

I was a child abuser, but in reality, to protect future actions, they had to

word it that way.

Sometimes even the diagnosis can look bad. I've seen things like SOB written on

reports. It means Shortness of Breath, but to a lay person, I'm sure it looks

like a personal slam.

Noreen

Re: [ ] A wonderful essay written by a patient

In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:37:08 AM Central Standard Time,

tess_northwest@... writes:

> Me, too! " Patient denies " in the vernacular of our culture can mean

> many things, nearly all with a negative slant...

>

Speaking from a nursing/hospital charting standpoint, it can also mean you

assessed something. We chart " patient denies pain " , rather than patient has

no

pain. Patient denies implies we checked with the patient, rather than just

saying we say she doesn't have pain, or whatever. I know some of this stuff

is

baloney and some of it is slanted, but patient denies pain protects me

personally from a lawsuit for malpractice for not treating pain. How could I

treat

it if she denied she had it? This is just an example, but something to

remember when you are reading charting. Often the reason for the wording is

malpractice/lawsuit protection. Cary the RN

[Guest guest]

Yes, Noreen, that's a good example. What if the nurse had written:

" Mother claims that child fell down. " ? That would change everything,

wouldn't it? Many patients never read their medical record, but what

about the next healthcare provider who does? Why use loaded words and

phrases? Judgments aren't supposed to be made when taking reports or

histories. Why not just use neutral language? That's all I'm asking for.

There's no real need to use " patient's major complaint " or " patient

denies " or " patient claims " when there are more neutral choices. Those

really have nothing to do with medicine. They have to do with training

and habit. And they perpetuate the gap between doctor and patient.

And I'm not even a fan of political correctness, LOL, just fair, careful

language.

Re: [ ] A wonderful essay written by a patient

> Exactly.

> It may not look right to the observer, but to medical people, it

covers what has to be done.

> When my son was a toddler, he cut his lip and needed stitches. I

noticed the nurse wrote down, " Mother states that child fell down. " I

felt like they thought I was a child abuser, but in reality, to protect

future actions, they had to word it that way.

>

> Sometimes even the diagnosis can look bad. I've seen things like SOB

written on reports. It means Shortness of Breath, but to a lay person,

I'm sure it looks like a personal slam.

>

> Noreen

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree, Cary. Time is a big factor and, as you stated before,

sadly, the litigious nature of our society drives much of the language.

I believe that most healthcare providers make these unfortunate choices

as a result of their training and out of habit, but I wish there would

be a conscious effort to change and focus on using neutral terms. The

whole mindset has got to change before patients have better experiences

at the office and in the hospital.

Re: [ ] A wonderful essay written by a patient

> In a message dated 11/11/2003 9:56:08 AM Central Standard Time,

> Matsumura_Clan@... writes:

>

>

> > " patient reports no pain " ?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> That would work as well....one of the problems on a busy unit is

trying to

> say what you want to say in as few words as possible! Thank the

wonderful world

> of managed care for that! I personally have always hated the old

" patient

> complains of " , too. I try to use " patient states " . Like you said,

semantics,

> but one sounds like someone is just bitching!

> Cary

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2003 1:31:27 AM Central Standard Time,

Matsumura_Clan@... writes:

> I believe that most healthcare providers make these unfortunate choices

> as a result of their training and out of habit, but I wish there would

> be a conscious effort to change and focus on using neutral terms. The

> whole mindset has got to change before patients have better experiences

> at the office and in the hospital.

>

>

>

>

I agree. This is how they continue to teach charting in school, however.

Cary