Re: CBT

[Guest guest]

I very much agree to try this, becasue I am open to anything that could help.Subject: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 4:03 PM

You are welcome a. I'm glad you printed it out... often times we read them and then forget them too quickly. I have them printed out as well. Last year when I started my journey of trying to change the way I think, I had NO IDEA how conditioned my thoughts had become. Plus, I did a lot of those 10 cognitive distortions listed. Until you really take a step back, observe your thoughts, and really be honest with yourself, people really have no idea how their thoughts 'can' impact their lives.

Doesn't 'cure' it... but for some, it can really help not only with 4S, but other areas in life. I like what you said about "changing what I can"... that's what its all about.

> >

> > I wanted to share a couple things. Dr. Nagler, in a less than nice

> > fashion, asked a question about something someone said (though I don't

> > see that thread anymore). Although it was a bit harsh, he was only

> > trying to get us to think. Dr. Nagler mentioned the 10 Cognitive

> > Distortions and I thought it might be good for everyone to read what

> > they are. You will notice that they all stem from negative thinking.

> > Take a look at this article and really think about your own mindset.

> > Its 3 pages and a worthwhile read.

> >

> > You Are What You Think

> > <http://depression.about.com/cs/psychotherapy/a/cognitive.htm>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Somebody needs to prove to me that feelings cannot come from places other than thoughts.Hm, I think you are right about feelings not necessarily coming directly from thoughts.Feelings can be conditioned responses for one thing which is different than a feeling coming from directly how you are thinking in the moment. Like when my brother taught me to drive, whenever I would leave my foot on the clutch just a little, he aim a swift hard kick at that foot and yell loudly. So then I began to associate bad feelings with riding the clutch and to my brother's great satisfaction developed an automatic aversion to riding the clutch! I don't even think about it anymore. Maybe that is

not the best example..I'm certainly not saying that the feelings from 4s are a conditioned response, I don't think the basic initial reaction is. But CBT can be used to observe, analyze and change a feeling state or reaction that has become a conditioned response, like avoiding Mexican restaurants at all costs because you may have the mistaken belief that you can't handle your reactions to all the chip munching. I see the CBT method more as just another tool, I certainly don't use it to blame myself for thinking negatively, I beat up on myself enough already. As a matter of fact, CBT helps me to not beat up on myself so much.To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 9:00:16 PMSubject: Re: Re: CBT

That's why I'm here.Subject: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 5:24 PM

Lindsey, If you don't mind I would like to step back from posting for a moment and have people from the group that are much more experienced than me give you their input. I apologize for jumping in so fast being so new to the group like you. I am in no way an expert on this topic although I have lived the side effects of it for a long time now. I believe you had more specific questions that have been buried in this chain of messages now that had not been answered yet. You may want to even consider starting a brand new topic with a list of your questions.

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> > > > > > I'm sorry, I just don't really feel it's ethical to blame a six year old

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> > > >child for thinking "too negatively."

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[Guest guest]

There are many many books on tha subject , ill find you a title if you like Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on 3Sender: Soundsensitivity Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:48:52 -0800 (PST)To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Re: CBT Somebody needs to prove to me that feelings cannot come from places other than thoughts.Subject: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 2:01 PM Thanks ! Sounds like I need to educate myself on this and then put a plan together on how to practice. I found out my next appointment which is with an ENT is not until mid-April and I'm not waiting until then to try something.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I just don't really feel it's ethical to blame a six year old > > >child for thinking "too negatively."> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Lindsey, relationships are very hard with this condition and I can relate to

what you are saying. For a long time my husband thought the same thing that I

thought about myself... that I was completely goofy. I hated myself too,

thought I was crazy, bound to spend my life in an insane asylum. He didn't

believe what I had was real and told me to 'get over it' like so many of us have

been told.

And then I found this place and my world changed. I realized I was not alone and

that in itself was empowering to me. I asked him to please sit with me and read

a few things on this website and he did. He then apologized to me. Ever since

he has been supportive of me. He doesn't understand it, nor do I, but he tries.

We're going on 18 years of marriage.

I think its good you wrote to your husband. Sometimes getting things out into

the open is good. Plus, you have this website as proof that you are not the

only one. There are 1500+ that deal with this daily. Most importantly, please

don't beat yourself up about this. It is NOT your fault. You are not useless

or broken. In my opinion, we are some of the strongest. I mean really... we'd

love to knock people's teeth out daily but show restraint. Now that is

strength!

Hang in there.

>

> I just got married in October, and I have been triggered daily by my husband

since our first date! I never yell at him or say much to him (unless we are in

the car) but he has chronic dry mouth that it worse than eating or anything. He

is by and large the loudest mouth-noise person I have ever been around, but

other than that highly ironic coincidence, he is my dream man. Therefore, I have

managed my outbursts, yet I still get so anxious sometimes that I excuse myself

to go the bathroom, where I have to slap myself in the face over and over until

the sound leaves my head. It's internal torture.... I cannot do anything to mess

up this marriage. I have a little daughter who finally has a step father who

cares about her. I am putting a LOT on the line by losing my temper! I just get

so depressed about it; I feel like a defective specimen, a broken thing,

useless. There are so many times that my love, romance, and even sex life, were

disrupted, that it

> drives me crazy imagining how amazing my marriage would be without my

problems. It takes so much ENERGY to control myself that it's truly draining.

That's why since yesterday, when I found these websites and this group, I

finally wrote my husband a long email explaining to him (becasue I could never

bring this up in person, even tho he knows I have some wierd issue). This thing

has ruined every relationship I've ever been in and played a large role in my

first divorce.l I hate myself for it. Plugging my ears is childish and

embarassing. Losing my temper and throwing things is immature and makes people

lose respect. And twitching and fitting makes me look way weird. I just want

this madness to end before I lose it completely, or my husband does. My biggest

fear is that I pass it onto my kid.

>         You know what the feeling reminds me of? Nicotine fit. I smoked

for 10 years and the it took me a lot of tries to quit..... the feeling is like

cigarette withdraw.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up.... I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is

completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological

problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top

of that.

I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on

in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to

eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to

minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she

understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.

When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about

4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:

I put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her,

so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's excellent article:

http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.asp\

x

and several other pieces of information.

This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean,

but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply " switch

off " .

Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory

sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer

therapies like " mindfulness " and " dialectical behaviour therapy " ). He fully

recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he

used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is

physical and real - not the result of " wrong thinking " - but you _can_ learn to

control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your

thinking.

So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from other

places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot " fight

back " and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control

(someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.

I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a

relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find

someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well

as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so

much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it

will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want

her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid

making normal sounds because it is distressing me.

By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind

Institute. I have watched quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world

experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I

can see from this side of the Pacific.

>

> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning

things my mother said to me growing up....  I had doctors look at me

cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has

it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I

was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then

later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My

niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me

and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I

don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never.

Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter

about 4S and it's impact on me.

>

[Guest guest]

I too am amazed at the moms on here actively trying to help their kids. Both my parents as I was growing up sort of...can we say 'abused' me? Even if it wasn't really all that intentional? It was kind of mean spirited but it was because they didn't believe me. Like when I would as a young kid scream for relief because my mom (wait for it....) Would use a Metal Fork in her Metal Pan to stir pasta etc. I used to go bonkers. I remember begging and pleading for her to stop. I would run from the room if I even saw her get out the pan...or the fork. Sometimes, she would do it extra much, running the fork through the pan really fast and then sneering and asking if that 'bothered me'. Ah yes ,the days of fork torture. She still does it. Now she just warns me to leave the room or 'close my

ears' first. And my dad will snort his perpetual snot even louder when I walk by just to see me wince. and then he'll laugh. So....maybe we need to start a therapy group! haha. So mother's who are actually trying to help...that's new to me.

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 11:09:51 PMSubject: Re: Re: CBT

Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up.... I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work.

But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would

apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice...

I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her

need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately there are many stupid, immature, spiteful morons out there. It is worse when you are related to them. I don't mean that in an ugly way, I just feel for you. I have met a couple of them along the way. They just never grew up.

I don't know why we have this condition, it is a curse in a way. Maybe someday there will be an answer. I hope so. In the mean time it is a cross we have to bare and a heavy one at that.

We need to learn to forgive in some way.

Mike L.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't

work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger

sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into

practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just

giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

I'm in San Diego, CA. Lived in San Francisco for 19 years :)Sent from my iPhone. .

So just out of curiosity, where is everyone located? I'm in Northern California.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Anyone else near San Francisco?I am in Larkspur (Marin) and am interested in interviewing anyone in the area.

Tara Economakis, Dip.AdvHyp,(N-SHAP),MCRAH,UKCP

Telephone 01488-685151/ 686881

info@...

www.lastingchanges.co.uk

To: Soundsensitivity From: heidi@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:37:44 -0800Subject: Re: Re: CBT

I'm in San Diego, CA. Lived in San Francisco for 19 years :)Sent from my iPhone. .

So just out of curiosity, where is everyone located? I'm in Northern California.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Isn't Oprah on her last season? I don't know how all of that works, but it almost seems like it would be pointless as by the time she would decide to take on 4S as a subject, her show would be over?†.:. Mae .:.†

You have not seen Christ, but still you love him. You cannot see him now, but you believe in him. So you are filled with a joy that cannot be explained, a joy full of glory. And you are receiving the goal of your faith -- the salvation of your souls. -1 1:8-9 (NCV)To: Soundsensitivity From: michael.lawrence57@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 06:36:44 -0800Subject: Re: Re: CBT

Thank you Ian,

That was so good to see. It may be a way of helping others understand. It takes courage to admit that you have such a pecular and socially debilitating problem such as 4S.

I have always been so embarrassed of it and almost never admited it. That is a huge burden to have. We will get the message out in time. Most people are compassionate of others problems. That is why Oprah is so popular. She should be our target since she is the most widely seen and the most influential. Should we start a letter writing campaign to here producers!

ML

Subject: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 4:17 AM

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife,

and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong

thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one

where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up.... I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is

very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

[Guest guest]

The middle of nowhere.South Dakota †.:. Mae .:.†

You have not seen Christ, but still you love him. You cannot see him now, but you believe in him. So you are filled with a joy that cannot be explained, a joy full of glory. And you are receiving the goal of your faith -- the salvation of your souls. -1 1:8-9 (NCV)To: Soundsensitivity From: lindsey.campbell@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:12:54 -0800Subject: Re: Re: CBT

So just out of curiosity, where is everyone located? I'm in Northern California.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Sydney Australia - born and bred.

But I lived in San Mateo California for 2 years while I was growing up, and did

all of 4th and 5th grade there.

>

> So just out of curiosity, where is everyone located? I'm in Northern

California.

[Guest guest]

Raleigh, NCSent from my iPad

So just out of curiosity, where is everyone located? I'm in Northern California.

Subject: Re: Re: CBTTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2011, 8:03 PM

Thanks Darlene... it has helped me so much just reading the postings from the group. After seeing how hard it is for adults to cope with this, feeling compassion for my daughter. I love her so, and this is such a struggle for people with so much more maturity than her. Perhaps someday I'll start a support group for friends/relatives/significant others... 4SAnon? =)

I'll keep my postings to a minimum, so as to give the folks with the direct experience the floor, but I will continue to read it all as it floats by...

From: Darlene

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:04 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: CBT

Deniese.. I think its so great that you (and other parents of 4S'ers) are a part of this group. Your daughter will have an advantage that many of us didn't... someone who listens and at least tries to understand. You said, "I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine".That made me laugh! Thanks for that. It is more difficult to apply these things to 4S because the response to a trigger is so quick, so automatic that its hard to get into that little space between hearing it and reacting to it in order to change your thoughts/feelings. But you are right... it can be applied to lessen the trickle effect from hearing a trigger to having it ruin your whole day. As far as exposure to trigger sounds is concerned, for me over-exposing myself to trigger sounds with hope I would get used to them just didn't work. But in order to try and work through the thoughts that you have after hearing a trigger sound, you do have to hear it. So, when I first started CBT, when I heard a trigger I would force myself to stay in that situation for maybe 15 seconds. Then I could leave. During that time I really tried to observe my thoughts. Then after a week or so I would increase the time. Slowly, but surely, I was able to stay in place and listen to the sound I hated so much without feeling like I needed to run. I kept a journal of thoughts that were going through my head during the time I sat there. Then after removing myself from the trigger sound I would re-read those thoughts and then change them on paper to read differently. I would acknowledge what I was feeling, put it into perspective, and re-assure myself that I would be alright. Then the next time I entered the situation with the same trigger sound I would apply what I had written to my thought process. Its taken me a very long time (over 2 years) to get to where I am now. I would have never believed I could have gotten to this point. I can now go sit in the movie theater and watch a movie with all the popcorn munching around me. People leave with their teeth, which I would have knocked out two years prior, and I don't have to miss out on one of my favorite things any longer. >> Here's a basic rational behavior therapy RBT syllogism. (Paraphased from Dyer's Your Erroneous Zones)> > I can control my thoughts. (prove it to yourself by envisioning a pink elephant)> > My feelings come from my thoughts.> > Therefore I can control my feelings.> > The kicker is, putting that into practice... I.e. what can I think of instead?> > I used to have a high level of 'automatic' negative thoughts and this one practice turned me into a disgusting ray of sunshine... =) I like it a lot, but putting it into play with 4S will be more challenging that for me and my former negative attitude, as you have a very real physical trigger... my triggers were simply my own negativity in response to outside events. I do think it would assist as I'm sure the reaction to the trigger can cascade into ruining one's day. At least it could stop somewhere after the initial reaction to the trigger, perhaps. Would love to hear how it's working for folks who are trying it.> > Again, thanks everyone. This forum has allowed me and her brother to have some understanding of my daughter's condition. What a lifesaver it's been. Understanding promotes tolerance for us, and even allows us to make accommodations that heretofore seemed just giving in to her need to control everything and everyone around her.> > Bless you all.> Kinsey's Mom, Deniese> > PS... that exposure to sound comment sounds like someone is a proponent of the "systematic desensitization" for treatment of 4S... is there any research out there to support this has ever been effective? It sounds painful... > >

[Guest guest]

Hey there Addy,

First of all, welcome aboard! We're always glad when somebody new finds their

way here and realizes they're not alone.

Second of all, going over some of the threads on here, I can understand why you

would be nervous, but don't be! Yes, 4S is causing a lot of us tremendous pain,

but:

1. Many of the people on this board are dealing with more than one

psychical/psychological condition, so many of the extremely painful reactions

you see are not based ONLY on 4S.

2. You are part of the lucky generation: we know what 4S is now, and are trying

to get researchers interested in looking for a cure. Many of the people in this

Yahoo Group grew up in a time when 4S was unheard of and the suffering it caused

was considered to be the sufferer's fault. Hopefully this will not be the case

for you: this Yahoo Group is a wonderful resource to use in explaining 4S to

your friends and family. See if your parents want to join: we have a lot of

parents of kids with 4S on here already. There have also been some legit

scholarly articles published about 4S, which ought to convince at least a few

people that it's not " all in your head " .

3. I think the consensus we're slowly coming to, on this board, is that even

though there is no cure, 4S CAN BE DEALT WITH. Several people on this board have

developed very clever and healthy coping strategies that are letting them take

back control of their lives; if you like, we can direct you to the threads where

these things are discussed.

In conclusion, Heidi's right: there's no reason why your life should become

bitter and unhappy. Yes, you'll need a lot of courage and willpower to fight

back against 4S. Yes, you'll end up growing up a little bit faster than your

peers, because 4S requires even more maturity than many adults have sometimes

(!). But 4S does NOT have to destroy your life.

Sorry that was so long. Keep coming here with questions, comments, or just when

you need to vent. And get your family to take a look at this board if you can:

it might help clear up a few things for them.

Best wishes,

Kate K.

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> >> > > > I'm sorry, I just don't really feel it's ethical to blame a six year

old

> >>child for thinking " too negatively. "

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